Paris Jackson: Love, Loss, & Listening to Your Intuition

What is up, Daddy gang? It is your. founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call. Her Daddy. >> Paris Jackson, welcome to Call Her. Daddy. >> Thank you. >> I [snorts] have been so excited to sit. down with you today. I was thinking. about it since before you were even. born, you have been in the public eye. Your dad was one of the most famous. musicians of all time. And. over the years, you've literally had to. deal with loss.

navigating recovery and relationships. and just like finding your sense of self. all while doing it in front of the. entire world. And so, I am very excited. to get to know you for you today. So, thank you so much for being here. >> Thank you for having me. >> Okay, I heard you are into astrology. >> Yeah, I actually looked up her birth. chart before I came here just because I. I saw in a video, I think it was on your. Instagram, you were wearing an Aries. necklace. I'm like, "Is she an Aries?".

And I looked it up and I'm like, "No, she's a Leo.". My girl. >> Okay, wait. This is amazing because I. don't know that much and I was like, "I. am so interested to hear your entire. perspective on just like. Leos You're an Aries? >> Yeah. >> My husband's an Aries and we for our. wedding gifts, we got each other I wear. his and he wears mine and everyone. always thinks I'm an Aries, but I'm a. Leo. >> Yeah. >> Okay, so you like Leos. >> My favorite women in my life are Leo. women.

>> I feel like today is going to be a good. day. >> we're going to have a good time. >> Also, isn't it a full moon tonight? >> Tomorrow night. >> Tomorrow night. >> exciting. But also, what's really cool. about your chart I didn't scan through. like all of your like houses and. everything. I just kind of looked. scanned at your I just peeked at your. major three and you have. uh I don't know if you have a stellium. I didn't check to see if you have other. Leo placements, but I did notice that. your sun and your rising are both Leo. >> I am a double Leo. What does that mean? >> So, I I. an Aries rising and an Aries sun. I. well, I have a stellium. I think I have. like five or six Aries placements.

>> Okay. >> So, I'm very Aries. Um but, what's. really cool about having the rising and. the sun matching is it's very like what. you see is what you get. >> Oh, interesting. >> So, when people meet me, they're like, "Yeah, you're very much an Aries.". because that's that's my that's how I. present. >> That is so helpful though to hear you. say that when you're a double something. because everyone's always like, "Oh, you're a double Leo." and I'm like, "What does that mean?" And then my is it. my moon is Aquarius. >> Yes. >> So, I'm rising Leo and moon is Aquarius.

>> Yeah. >> What does that mean? >> I don't know exactly you'd have to have. someone honestly Monica who you who you. met. She she's the one that's like we'll. get out a pad and paper and we'll be. like, "Oh, yeah, you're Oh, well, your. Venus falls in his eighth house." and. then she'll like draw maps and stuff and. do the whole thing. I'm not that good at. it. I'm not fluent in that language at. all, but I know bits and pieces from. what I've picked up from from people. that I know that really study it. And. uh. the daily horoscopes thing I think is.

because it's like. you know, it the daily horoscope is not. taking into consideration all of your. houses and all of your planets. It's. just looking at your sun. So, it's going. to be as vague as possible to fit as. many people into it. Whereas like you. can meet someone that has like. you know, maybe they've got like a. Sagittarius sun, but like every other. sign is in Capricorn. They're going to. be more Capricorn than anything. >> Interesting. >> So, the daily horoscopes is I wouldn't. recommend those. Um but, when you get.

into the. the houses and the other planets and the. degrees, that's when stuff starts. getting like really spooky accurate. >> I love it though because I every time I. read about myself, I'm like, "Oh, that. seems that seems right." and I'm like, "Am I making that up or is it actually. that accurate?". >> Mhm. >> Um speaking of full moons though, >> Yeah. >> is there anything that like you do when. a full moon is coming? >> I think that like different practices. I've picked things up and put them back. down. Uh there's lots of things that. I've tried in the past. I used to do a. lot of craft and I had like a group of.

women that we'd get together under the. full moon and like dance naked and I. definitely had a photo taken off of. Instagram. Um from a like a full moon. circle. Uh but now it's kind of like, you know, I've done like fire ceremonies. and things like that uh for the new moon. or the full moon. Um but it's not. something that I do every single month. >> We So was it just taken off of Instagram. cuz you were just naked? Okay. You were like I I tried. >> out my nipples. >> [laughter]. >> But. >> Let a girl live. I had a friend that was. like oh my friends and I like put water.

I think they like say like outside into. like have the Have you ever done that? >> I didn't I do nothing, Paris. >> That's like yeah, that's like the the. standard, you know, the the moon water. or like uh you know, you charge your. crystals. >> Okay, okay, okay. Saturn returns. You said you've gone. through a couple Saturn returns. To. anyone that's watching it is like how. can I survive one? Do you have any. advice for us? >> Um I am in my Saturn return right now. It started uh actually on my brother's.

birthday this year. So I'm a little. late. It might have started. >> we How are we doing? >> You know, it's funny. because. uh a close friend of mine is like this. too. My Saturn return might be one of the. unremarkable ones just because of all of. the calamity that happens earlier on. So sometimes cuz typically the Saturn. return is what happens when like I know. people that have like left the church. they were a part of during that time or. they got a divorce during that time or. they became a mother during that time.

You know, it's kind of like so much of. your life shifts and it has a lot to do. with identity. Um. but so much has happened leading up to. my Saturn return that I feel like maybe. this is just one of the unremarkable. ones. I could also be speaking too soon. cuz we're only like. >> Maybe it'll be the opposite for you. Yeah, yeah, maybe it's going to you're. like my life there's been so many trials. and tribulations that so far this is. feeling pretty easy. >> Yeah, I'm chilling. >> You're you're kind of coasting through. [laughter] your Saturn return. Literally. every piece of wood we need to knock on.

right now. Okay, let's talk about though cuz I was. thinking about so much of your life. Yes, there has been. a lot that you have gone through and how. old are you? >> I'm 28. >> And you're only 28 years old. Music. >> Yeah. >> music has been such a huge part of your. life. I know you have a new album coming. out August 21st and I want to get into. all that but I feel like to do it we. almost need to go back to the beginning. because you are someone who literally. came into this world and music it's like.

in your blood. What are your earliest. memories around music being a part of. your life? >> It's kind of like asking. a a dolphin or a any kind of fish like. what was it like when you entered the. water? >> [laughter]. >> I mean only because like it was around. constantly. I was raised on like the. Beatles catalog. I was raised on a lot. of classical music. I was raised on you. know Tchaikovsky. I always butcher her. name. I don't know if it's Debussy or WC.

but like my dad used to say WC and so I. don't know if that's correct um. pronunciation but like I grew up on a. lot of just music was around all the. time. >> For those who don't know, your dad was. Michael Jackson. And you grew up in this. place called Neverland which I feel like. has is like so famous and everyone like. thinks of that word and they almost like. think they know what that means. Um. known for the amusement parks and the. zoo in the backyard but you actually.

lived there. Can you just like explain. to someone even maybe like our Gen Z. people who aren't as familiar like what. was a normal day in your childhood like. at Neverland? >> So. uh so I didn't grow up there. It was. only the first few years of my life that. I was there and. uh. I'd wake up and I'd go to school. And. >> Yeah, I'd wake up and we'd go to the. room that was our classroom and we would. go to school. And it's um.

it was made the the cool like very. congruent line throughout my childhood. that kind of started there and then just. continued on wherever we went was. if you're good and you do your chores. and you do your homework and you do the. things that you're supposed to do, then on the weekends you can go see some. animals and you can go ride some rides. and you can go to the movies. It was. made very, very clear that um all of the. attractions there were not for us. That. did not belong to us. That was for, you. know, underprivileged children and. children that were terminally ill that.

couldn't go to like Disneyland. Um and that continued on even when we. were cuz at one point we like wouldn't. stay in one place for more than a year. and we'd hotel hop a lot and so it was. you know, if we were living in Vegas and. it's like, "Okay, if you're good, you. can go to Circus Circus on the. weekends." Or like we were in like some. random place in Virginia. Like, "Okay, if you're good, you can go to Chuck E. Cheese this weekend." So it was always, you know, same thing with like. television. Like we weren't allowed to. watch television or movies and stuff. either unless we were studying it for. film uh with the sound off or um you.

know, it was on the weekends if we had. like done everything we were supposed. to. >> Okay, so you weren't like running around. at an amusement park when you're super, super young. >> Yeah, but. >> [laughter]. >> no. I probably would've grown up to be. an But. >> No, no, but you were grounded and you're. like, "We have our studies and maybe. we'll get to see some of the animals at. the zoo on the weekend.". >> Yeah. >> Call Her Daddy is brought to you by. Häagen-Dazs. Daddy Gang, I think we all. deserve a little more me time. Whether. it's work, school, or whatever is.

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That's Dazs, available at retailers. nationwide. Obviously the world knew your dad is. like the king of pop, but. how would you have described your dad? >> Really funny guy that was my best. friend. >> Do you think that your humor is similar. to his or different? >> I think our humor usually tends to come. from our siblings and parents. That's usually where it kind of. And also the region in which we grow up. >> Mhm. Three brothers, you're the only girl.

>> I feel like when you're the only girl in. the family, correct me if I'm wrong, there's like a special treatment or. there's like things that you can be. like, "Oh, I'm the only girl. Like I get. to do XYZ with my parent because I'm the. only girl." Did you have anything that. was like your favorite thing that you. got to do with your dad cuz you were the. girl in the family? >> There was definitely a focus. on making sure the love felt equal. There was definitely like I I definitely.

noticed an effort in in. treating everyone equally. Um. I definitely was Daddy's little. princess. Um I think that just happens with with. sons and mothers and fathers and. daughters. There's just this special. special bond that you can't put into. words. Um but I mean it's it's a bummer. when you get a little bit older and and. you know, like. when we started going to regular school, uh you know, my brothers could have. sleepovers at their friends' places, but. I could only have my friends at you. know, like there's certain rules that.

that some some guys get a little more. freedom. >> Yes, they have There's more leniency. with boys and then as a girl, you're. like, "Wait, why?". >> Yeah. >> Why can't I? And it's like, "Well, unfortunately, the world we live in.". Yeah. You didn't really grow up with. your mother. You didn't have a. relationship with her when you were. growing up, right? How was that. explained to you as a kid? >> Um you know, eventually, I remember, you. know, kind of asking about it when I was. probably around like 10 or 11 and the. answers I got were, you know, sufficient.

to me. I was just like, "Oh, like what's. her name?" and I got told her name and. I'm like, "All right, cool." Like it. was, you know, moved on and uh we. connected when I was about 15. and then really started getting closer. towards like my the end of my teen years. and things like that. >> Thinking about you at 15 years old, Paris, and you're like, "Oh, you're. going to like meet your mom for the. first time." Like do you remember if you. were nervous? >> I think I mean, I remember coming. downstairs as she was in the living room.

with with my grandma. I came in and I was just like, "Hey, Mom.". And she was like, "Hi." I sat down, we. talked for a second, then we went out. for the day and just like hung out. >> And you called her mom right away. >> She I mean, she's a she's a Sag, so. she's got the fire and I'm an Aries, so. I got the fire. We just, you know, we're. very we're very similar. You know, I I. think um what's really cool about my. process. uh just in in general in all things is. learning. how.

expectations kind of us up. And. if I walk into a relationship. with expectations. probably going to end up being maybe. disappointed or frustrated or irritated. or a resentment will be born or. something, you know? And and when I walk. into something and I don't have. expectations. it creates. this really cool space for something. organic to just.

be blossom, yeah. >> But I do think that's like a pretty. impressive approach at such a young age. Like that's like a that's that's a lot. of insight to have at 15. >> I'd say I've gotten it's gotten more. refined. >> Okay. Okay. >> Over [laughter] the years. >> You figured it out. >> Yeah. >> I also was thinking like something that. I I know you've said before is like and. similar to you're like I didn't know. anything other than music, like you. didn't really realize that your father. for a while was famous. You've even. publicly said like I didn't even know.

his name was Michael. >> Yeah. >> How. do you think you started to realize. though, like. >> Well, I think I knew he was famous. I. just didn't know how famous. >> Fair. [laughter]. Fair. Fair. Fair. >> Uh I mean, yeah, I definitely there was. definitely part of me that like when I. looked out my hotel window and it was. one of the times where like the alias. didn't work and there's just like a sea. of people with signs and stuff. I'm like. there was I'm not so naive to think. yeah, everyone experiences this. You know, I just didn't understand the.

lengths. >> Something that um I feel like so many. people were obsessed with was like how. your dad would have you and your. brothers wear masks and like cover your. faces when you would go out in public. How did you make sense of that though at. the time when you were a kid being like, "Okay, put on your masks.". >> I mean, it just it made sense because it. was like, "Oh yeah, if you do this now, then you can go to Chuck E. Cheese and. be normal this weekend cuz no one will. know who you are. Like that that made sense to me. >> But it really pissed the press off.

>> What doesn't? >> Fair. >> What doesn't? >> I think that people probably felt. entitled to you guys as children of like. he's this figure that we get and he's. ours and and we get to comment and look. at him like we should be able to see the. children too because he's you're part of. that entity and that's obviously that. was a protection that was put in place. for you guys. Did you ever feel like it. was scary when you would go out and have. masks on and people were trying to see. your face?

>> Um. I don't know. I don't know. Trying to think like what scared me as a. kid. Uh. spiders, loss, uh but. I don't know that that was was scary. I. always felt, you know, protected. We. always had security and you know, sometimes crowds would get a little. crazy, but it would there was still like. this uh.

you know, there's there's an adult you. can grab on to, you know. Um but what's. also so cool about. all of it is. seeing how. my experience. can assist. other people. I have I have a few other. people in my life that are in pretty. similar situations that are, you know, several years younger than me and I just. get to. be a friend and, you know, my phone's on.

and like that is the coolest thing with. with all things, whether it is, you. know, being, you know, a female with. certain scary experiences or, you know, being in the public eye from such a. young age or being uh someone in. recovery is like. I have all these experiences that I can. use to. give other people. And I never tell. people what to do, but if they ask me, I'm like, "Well, this is what worked for. me and this is what didn't work for me. Do with it as you will.". And it's taken me a very long time to. get to where I am right now. This last.

year has been the happiest year of my. life, and thank God I'm in this place. right now. cuz I may not have said those exact. words a few years ago, but but yeah, where I'm at with it now is like, "Oh, everything happens for a reason, whether. I'm going to see that reason now or I'm. going to see it in. 50 years or I'm going to see it when I. die. I don't know, but like. one day it's going to make sense. >> It's like you trust the universe. >> Yeah. >> Call Her Daddy is brought to you by. Airbnb. Daddy gang, being pregnant has completely changed.

the way that I travel. I used to care. about things like, you know, is there a cute rooftop or how. close are we to the bars? And now I just. have a completely different checklist. I. need a big fridge for all of my meals, all the cravings, um a comfy couch to. crash on after we have been out all day. to support the back, you know? And. obviously a huge bed where I can. actually stretch out and bring all of my. pregnancy pillows for a really good. night's sleep. And booking a stay on.

Airbnb is how I've been able to check. all those boxes. Don't get me wrong. I love summer, but this time of year. always gets me excited to start planning. for that first fall trip, whether it's a. girls weekend, a trip with Matt, or a. family vacation, booking a home on. Airbnb just makes the whole trip feel. more comfortable and special. I love how. you get space to actually spend time. together and really live also like a. local, whether you're cooking breakfast. in the morning and then walking into.

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>> You know, I did this really cool. exercise last year. where. and I think this helps with my. perspective shift on just in life. Uh. where I wrote. I wrote out just a short, two-page life. story. uh through the eyes of the victim. And then I sat with it. And I went through and I wrote. another two pages. uh.

same stories. but not through the eyes of the victim, and through this kind of zoomed out. version. Uh and looking at like maybe these scary. things that happened or these hardships. that happened or whatever, and looking. for. what were points of initiation? What. were points of like, you know, a. jumping-off point? What were, you know, these little pieces that would later be. alchemized into medicine for other. people. And.

so a lot of my perspective on on things. like that have just been like, "Oh, this. was some form of energetic initiation. um to get me further along on my path.". >> What story was easier to write, the. victim or. the more zoomed-out lens? >> I think the because of where I was at at. the time, probably the the zoomed-out. lens. >> Oh, interesting. >> I saw this. uh Ram Dass thing recently that kind of. explores uh the basically these these. two roles you can you can be in, which.

is either the victim or the creator. And. he I'm going to butcher this, but he. said something along the lines of. anytime we are identifying with. kind of just like our human selves. This. is what I like, this is what I don't. like, this is what how I spend my time, this is, you know, my hobby, this is a. label that a family member or friend or. maybe some online gave me. Anytime we are identifying with those. things, we are in victim. When we shed ourselves of all of these. roles and we shed ourselves of all of.

these labels and we get to our true. essence, that is when we are in creator. I've also seen these this kind of. outlook um. it's like a through line across multiple. cultures and even in some religions. where there is this kind of like. idea around true essence stripped of all. these things that that put us in a. position of like maybe self-pity or. something like that. >> I was talking to my mom about this the. other day. She always has said to me. like. there are things that can have happened. to you that are.

horrible. But. you have to choose to live with victim. mentality and if you do that, then you. are essentially saying that I have no. autonomy over my life. There are moments. where you did not have autonomy and. something happened to you and you. actually were a victim, but to live in. the victim mentality, like you're. stripping yourself of any ability to. have power. Then where do you get to. rise up and be like I'm No, I'm in. control. >> Now what? >> constantly just everyone else is in.

control of you and you have no control. over your own life. So I get what you're. saying there where it's like you have to. some way. >> At some point it it does become my. responsibility to heal and to start. taking care of myself and. to be like, okay, this this god-awful. thing happened. How do I. use this to be of service to someone. else? >> Completely. And in some capacity it does. then that actually takes first you. putting yourself first. >> It it it feeds into my life purpose. It.

feeds into giving me life. You know, so like I I I don't um. I don't like the idea of people having. regrets. I don't. >> I agree. >> You know. >> Were you being that young, was there any question of you like. speaking at the memorial or were you. like I want to do this? >> Oh, it just it kind of just happened in. the moment. It was kind of like a. It happened on stage [laughter]. where it was like a They looked and.

they're like, are one of the kids going. to say something? >> [laughter]. >> And no one moved. So, I was like, and I. it, we ball. And like it was just. like this it Yeah, it just happened. That's That's a big reason why it's. like, okay, this must have been some. kind of energetic initiation. Uh and so, you know, and it's funny cuz a lot of my. life has been spent in front of, you. know, microphones. And um. >> Did you feel any pressure in that. moment? >> Well, because when eyes when eyes turn. and they're like, someone's got to say. something.

I don't know I I have not gone back to. watch it to see how quickly it all. happened, but it felt like it happened. very slowly and it felt [laughter] like. someone's got to say something. Little. bro's not going to do it. Older bro's. not moving. All right. >> You just spoke from the heart. >> Yeah. >> After that point in your life, I feel. like everything it seems like shifted. You went to live with your grandmother, right? How was that time in your life? You're processing grief. You're going. through loss. You're publicly everyone's.

looking at you. Talk to me. What was. that like? >> That was rough, dude. That was like. I didn't have social skills. I've I'd. been hanging out with like cousins and. my brothers and like adults, so I didn't. know how to. uh interact with peers uh very well. So, I had a crash course in in gaining. social skills, for sure. >> And I feel like I've seen you've talked. about how like you. like hung out with more like whether you. sought like older friends or you just. were around adults more in your life.

How do you think that kind of made you. grow up maybe faster than other peers. your age? >> I don't know. I think I was very. uh. live fast and hard. I was I wanted to. grow up fast. There was something in me. that wanted to live as much life as. possible. Um and I think maybe that contributed to. some poor choices in my young adulthood. life and and whatever, but I just wanted. to experience.

everything. >> When you look back, do you think you can. like pinpoint like the why? >> I just had a graspiness with everything. You know, I'm just the type of. I have that kind of addictive. personality where I will be reachy and. graspy and find ways to get into. consuming relationships with all things, whereas like for example, I know some. people that uh. you know, I'm the type of person that. like if I have a hit of weed or a drink, I'm going to go back on heroin, but I.

know some other people that you know, they messed around with heroin and now. they can like have a drink at a party or. they can do like MDMA at a festival. I don't know what that is. I think. everyone's maybe different, but I am. just of the variety that is I will turn. Pilates into an addiction. I will turn. rock climbing into an addiction. Like I. am just constantly historically reached. outside of myself to find things to. change or manage how I'm feeling and.

thinking. Um. and so much of this last uh year being. in now in my in my seventh year, so I. have six years uh of recovery of like, okay, what's it like to be in right. relationship with myself and what's it. like to not be in consuming. relationships with different things. I. do have a consuming relationship with. tobacco at the moment. Um. But for the most part, just being like, okay, how can I be in. just right relationship. I want to talk.

a little bit more about what you were. just talking about because you have been. open not only about your addiction, but. your journey to sobriety and I love how. you said earlier like. things that you've gone through, you've. been able to connect with so many people. and this is something you kind of I know. you've said dealt with in your teenage. years. When do you remember your. relationship to drugs and alcohol kind. of beginning? >> Probably eighth, ninth grade. But that kind of.

reachingness started much younger. I. think I was maybe around like seven, eight, nine. when I started to just like kind of. reach for things outside of myself, whether it was a. person or food or you know, just. survival skills, I would say. Like. self-harm for example is probably not a. living skill, it's a survival skill. Just things like that. Uh. it's kind of always been. present. Just this idea of like I think. I need something to help me manage.

>> And did anyone close to you when you. were that young know that you were going. through that? >> I don't think so. I mean. I hid it well. I hid it well. I think I think people. that. navigate through life managing that way. tend to learn secrecy. pretty well, pretty quickly. >> That's why I've I've had a lot of people.

on and people often talk about how they. used, you know, substances to kind of. like escape or numb feelings. What was. your experience? Like was that Does that. resonate? >> I mean, I I enjoyed the effect produced. by whatever I was doing. Um, it was just to feel different I think. than how I was feeling. So, just. controlling and managing my my thoughts. and feelings. Um, and just using other things to do that. >> How were you feeling when you weren't.

using? >> Uh, restless, irritable, discontented, just. very like. not comfortable in my own skin, you know, and that does tend to happen. with a lot of people that, you know, are very. just have very addictive personalities. When you just quit cold turkey and you. don't have any kind of replacement. program, you kind of have to it's like a. white-knuckling process. And so, going. through life white-knuckling it is is.

rough. And so, there needs to be I found. for someone like me some kind of. replacement technique. >> You've talked about how you were raised. to have good morals, but alcohol kind of. brought out this. version of yourself that you really. didn't like. >> I'm a. >> Can you share when you started to. realize that? And was it you realize it. through yourself or was it people. telling you? >> Um, I was starting to get I was starting to. hear stories of like what would happen.

when I was blacking out. And they started progressively getting. worse. And uh, I basically scared myself into getting. help. >> Oh, that's I mean, I can imagine like. how hard that is too because at first, I. don't know like. please correct me if I'm wrong, but you. want to be in denial at first because. like this is something that you're using. and it's making you feel good. And so, to hear those stories at first, when do you think it went from you being. like, that's not that that's not that.

bad to like, oh my god, maybe I do need. to take these stories into account of. what everyone's telling me and like I do. need to listen. >> Yeah, I mean, it did happen in. uh, like end of 2019. Actually, I got sober the first week of. 2020. Um. It was Yeah, I you know, I realized I I. I I couldn't stop after I'd gotten rid. of like some of the harder stuff, and I. realized even with, you know, weed and. alcohol, I like I just couldn't stop, and it was just getting worse, and it.

just. I had my breaking point. I had my my. bottom, and. it uh. it just kind of did it for me. And so. then I was like, okay, what do I do? What do I, you know, how do I. rebuild the foundation? How do I, you. know, come up with some kind of daily. thing to keep to keep me good and and. develop a spiritual life and um. find ways to be of service. >> That must have been hard. That was. during COVID. So you were trying to get sober during.

COVID. >> Yeah. >> How was that? >> It was really fun. It was really fun. I found a really cool. community of uh like people that were. were somewhere around my age. Some of. them were a little bit younger. Um. that were also newly sober, and we all. just kind of like. hung out and, you know, spent almost. every day together, and and it was, you. know, I had this. camaraderie and community and fellowship. of like, okay, you know what I'm going. through, I know what you're going.

through, and there's just this. understanding. Um I think community is. so important cuz I've I've heard some. people say that the opposite of. addiction is connection. And so having. that kind of like. I've got my people. They, you know, they've got me. >> When you started to get sober, what was. the self-reflection on like how that. time in your life had impacted the. relationships? And did you also realize. like certain relationships weren't. serving you now that you were sober?

>> Yeah, I mean, the people I was getting. high with, I probably shouldn't keep. hanging out with them. Like my. drug dealer, I probably shouldn't keep. hanging out with them. You know, like. there those there were some that were. more obvious and there were also some. that took a lot longer to kind of. you know, I've had some friendship. breakups that were worse than than, you. know, romantic breakups and. those are devastating. Uh. but it it's really started to shift in. in this last year learning how to be in. right relationship with myself.

I've started noticing ripple effects in. all of my relationships. Um even like. one of my best friends, I would say my. best friend, who, you know, isn't in. therapy, never really had any issues. with with drugs or alcohol, and doesn't. drink anymore, but still smokes weed. Like just a very normal person. Um. we have so much more we're able to have. uncomfortable conversations. We're able. that that foster trust and safety and.

more closeness and more intimacy. Where. and we've been friends for 10 years, but. it's like really in the last year. I've I've seen how. adjusting how I am with myself is also. affecting my relationships with friends, with family, like with you know, it's. really cool. That's. incredible, Paris, cuz I feel like. anyone in my life that I have personally. dealt with, obviously, who I'm there. with them when they're dealing with. addiction or I've who I've interviewed,

it's like there's something so beautiful. when you do get to that point where you. start to see yourself and pour love into. yourself and you're not numbing and. you're like you essentially become lucid. again and you're like, "Oh my god." And. first it's uncomfortable from what a lot. of my friends have told me. They're like. >> Very uncomfortable. >> I want to crawl out of my skin. >> Very uncomfortable, but it's very like. hand on heart, gentle gentle, like move. through it. This is medicine. This.

discomfort is medicine and sometimes we. don't want to take our medicine. cuz it tastes like but it it does. what it needs to do. And then you get to. the point where you're now with your. friend who you've had for 10 years and. to say that this sobriety and this place. in your life where you're now able to. pour so much self-love into yourself has. unlocked a complete different side of. your relationship. I think that's what's. been so beautiful is everyone who sat in. that chair and talked about such. different experiences, but there is a.

commonality of like, oh my god, once you. push through that really, really hard. moment and it's always going to be hard. >> Mhm. >> But there is this like light at the end. of the tunnel of like, oh my god, I've. never felt more connected to certain. relationships and most importantly. myself. and how beautiful is that that like. you're you're granted that at the end of. that. >> Damn. >> It's I mean, there's nothing more. rewarding and I also see that it is. affecting my songwriting. It's affecting. my ability to express myself. Um I like.

I wrote a song I've only ever really. written songs about like boys and. heartbreak and drugs and you know, a few. weeks ago I wrote a song for my best. friend and you know, put it up on. Instagram and she loved it and like. we're both crying. It's just like this. beautiful like I'm writing I wrote a. song about a friendship breakup. recently. Um and I'm being more. descriptive. I'm I'm shying away from. the vagueness that I used to cuz I used. to think like, oh, well, the more vague. I am, the more people can like relate.

and it's like, well, I'm just going to. write about my experience and I'm just. going to be. you know, you know, I might be open for. interpretation. Like some of the lyrics. are a little like, you know, 40 seasons. past and silver lines silver lines and. tales to tell. That's 40 seasons, that's. 10 years we've been friends. Silver. lines is she's starting to get gray. hair. There's certain things in there. where it's like. little inside moments that she'll know. what I'm saying, but other people won't. and then there's other things that are. very um. specific. Like the tagline in that. little song that I wrote is like, "If.

we're all just pieces of the people that. we meet, you've got the biggest piece of. me.". That's not open for interpretation. That. is exactly what it means. >> Is it unsettling putting. that out into the world because you are. somewhat of a private person, you know? >> You know, when it's art, it's when it's art, that's a whole other. thing. You know, like there there may be. certain certain things that I may not. want to talk about in an interview, or I. may not want to talk about on my.

Instagram. But like with with art, I'm. going to say I'm going to be honest. I'm. going to share my experience, and then, you know, maybe I will talk about it. later as it relates to the music, but. >> Let's talk about your music. >> Yeah. >> Because there's a lot that inspired me. because a lot of what you yes write. about are like thematically things that. I love to talk about on the show. Your. new single, Zombies in Love, it talks. about, correct me if I'm wrong, but. being in a relationship built around.

shared pain and escapism, essentially. When you look back at that relationship, like how did that dynamic eventually. become unsustainable for you? >> I mean, we were sharing on heroin, so I. don't think it was ever sustainable. But, uh, getting sober? >> Yeah. That allow it. >> Yeah. >> What did that relationship teach you. about healing on your own versus healing.

in a partnership? >> That one, not so much just because the. whole focus getting out of that was. like, "I'm newly sober. I need to like. just not do drugs and alcohol." Like. that was the primary focus, and it was. really hunkering down and just doing a. lot of work on myself surrounding. addiction. Um, this last breakup that I. went through was a lot more like, oh, how do I. not go back to old coping skills? Like I. Yeah, I may be able to like not touch.

drugs and alcohol, but what are some. other things is the graspingness? What. else am I being grasping with. that I can just. not do, go in here, connect there, and really. just. That was a huge focus. I did this whole. thing right a lot of people, I know I. did for a long time like, oh, I'll just. get under someone to get over someone. That historically has never worked for. me. And going from person to person. doesn't work for me.

So, it was very much like, I'm not even. going to go on a date. I'm not going to flirt. I'm not going to do prolonged eye. contact for like X amount of months. >> Prolonged eye contact. >> I'm not going to and you're going to. know what I'm talking about cuz. I'm not going to do an extended hug to. see if they just to see if they'll do it. back and to see if I can because there. is intrigue and there's validation in. that. We're not doing any of that. We're. just going to We are tunnel vision, eyes on our own paper, we're. locking in, and we are just.

>> Barriers. >> It was one of the most uncomf- At first. uncomfortable, but one of the best. things I ever did for myself. Full-blown. reset, full-blown just like detox. And I really got. my priority straight. I really got. uh. the room to like be like, oh, what are. the things that really make me happy? How do I. listen to myself and listen to my. intuition? Like my my my [clears throat].

hearing has gotten a lot stronger. And yeah, that was one of the best. things that I that I could have done for. myself after that split. >> Can we talk about that though? Because. last summer. >> Mhm. >> you called off your engagement. >> Mhm. >> And. that is. that takes a lot of I think courage to. end something when you have at one point. decided I want to spend the rest of my. life with this person. And then.

obviously. you you ended it I don't know who mutual. Was it a mutual decision? >> It was It was a choice that I I needed. to make to to be happy. >> Can you. with what you're comfortable because I. have so many women who listen and it's. like. I feel like there is something that. happens especially as women where we. can get more sucked into like. oh my god I've spent so much time with. this person I've invested in this I've. spent. >> There's a name for that.

I don't know what it is. My friend said. it the other day. There is a name for. that when oh because I've invested X. amount of time I have to keep going with. it. >> Oh well that In In business it's called. the sunken cost fallacy which is so. unsexy and that's probably not for but. it's like. It's basically the sunken cost fallacy. is like if you have spent so much time. pouring into this one project and then. if like a better option arises whether. it's like oh my god I see that I don't. want this or I see that this could I. could get this but it could take two. seconds even though I've spent years.

building this and it's going to be. better for me. Don't just stay with the thing because. you've invested so much time in it if. it's not actually what's the best option. for you. And so I can't help but wonder for you. like. how did you know although I've invested. in this publicly I've spoken about it. there's a lot going on how did you know. you were. you made the right decision to end a. engagement? >> Well. as far as the public side of it goes.

I've had people write about my breakups. before so it's not that big of a deal. This is also my second engagement that I. called off. The first one I don't know. if you could count the first one. It was. real to me even though we were strung. out on drugs and the ring was one that. he bought with my money without me. knowing. It was still like the love was so real. for me in that that first one. So, this. was like I was this second one. No, it. wasn't [laughter] It wasn't that casual. No, it was very like, you know,

I. There were times where I did. try and end it, but there is this little voice being. like, "But what if?". However long down the line, and this is. a voice that a lot of us have, of if I. had just hung in there a little bit. longer, it would have gotten better. And so, I'm the person that. needs to be sure. Really, really needs to be sure. Even though I have a therapist, like a.

clinical psychologist, a coach, I have, you know, I have got a whole counsel of. people, friends that that know a lot. about relationships and all the things. that I was going through in life at the. time, that are like, "Honey." [sighs]. And asking me the right questions of. like, "Why would you stay?". And my answers weren't good enough. My answers weren't good enough. Just. because I realized just because someone. is a good person doesn't mean they're my. person. And I have to be happy, and and I.

realize that my non-negotiables are. allowed to be non-negotiables, and if. these big major needs are not being met, it doesn't matter that you're a good. person and you're not going to cheat on. me. That's not a reason to stay. >> [sighs]. >> Paris. Especially also because I think, you know, I I I live in a city where it. where loyalty is not the biggest thing, and so sometimes I maybe get it in my. head that that's how most people are. I have some of the most incredible men. in my life. that love their wives, that love their.

kids, that are just such stand-up dudes. that would never dream. of that up. So, I know that that. exists out there. Like I have I can. examine the evidence and be like, "Okay, like. it does exist. This isn't the one and. only person that's not going to do that. to me.". >> No, isn't that so sad that like. we as women in if you are in a. relationship like a heterosexual. relationship, you're like, "Oh my god, this man I'm convinced.

all of these men cheat, right?" And so. then you're like, "I found one that is like without a. doubt this loyalty. Oh my god, I would be an idiot to let this go." And. it's like, "Guys, it is kind of bare. minimum for them to not cheat." Like we. need to start looking at that. That's. not a boundary. That's That shouldn't. even be a prerequisite. Like that is. just like. that is what a relationship is. Is. someone not cheating on you? So like but. we have been conditioned and I agree and.

it's like, "Why do we convince ourselves. that that's enough?" And then "Well, he's going to he won't cheat on me and. da da. >> I I was talking to my friend about this. a few days ago. um. cuz she likes my. you know, my take on on relationships. and certain things. And so [snorts] I only share my. experience and I don't give suggestions. or advice ever, but um you know, if. sometimes when one thing is being met, we'll disregard the other things. And.

what was so awesome about I'll give you. an. an example for for this person was she. really wants like a. kind of like a caretaker person. And if. there is a guy who does that one thing, she's like, "Cool, he's the one." And is. not going to look at all the other. things that make him one of the worst. people to ever be with. But and we're. willing to overlook a lot of things and. paint over them because this one thing. is being met. And so the conversation kind of becomes. about, "Okay,

what's the need? Caretaking. Cool. How. do I give that to myself. so that when homie comes knocking, I'm. like, I'm good on this. What else can. you bring to the table? What are What can you bring to the table. that I don't already have covered? And. what what's been so cool about, you. know, that that time that I took after. my last relationship was allowing myself. to kind of. the clouds part. I'm not willing to. overlook a bunch of things. I'm I'm. like, I can I can be a little bit. pickier. You know, the bar can be raised.

a bit cuz it's historically been very. low. And. I remember like there was this one time. um. once I was like, okay, I'm going to. chill. I'm not going to like actively. seek people out, but like if something. happens, it happens. And you know, there was someone I I got on the phone. with him and it was a 15-minute phone. call. And at one point, he made a comment about like, yeah, I just can't picture my life. without weed.

And as someone that was. one of the biggest stoners you will ever. meet, like I loved. weed. That was one of my favorite things. in the world like to the point where. like. out of my friend group, I was the only. one that was able to like keep up with. Snoop Dogg one time when we all smoked. with him, which was like the coolest. story ever. uh to say that I was able to do that. But where I'm at in life now, like I. don't judge it. I because I loved it so. much, I understand when people want to. do that, but because it's not a part of. my life at all,

I'm not going to. overlook that and be with someone that. does it all day every day. So, I'm like, cool. Okay, thanks for your time. Click. I'm not going to even bother with the. first date. >> No, I love what you're saying so much. and I do think this all goes to like, I'm so happy that. it's so I love my job because had we met. a couple years ago, we would have had a. fascinating conversation. And now that. we're meeting here, we're also having a. fascinating conversation because you're. at such a different point in your life. than you were a couple years ago, same.

with me. And I love what you're talking. about because when you get to that place. where you start to analyze and realize, "Oh my god, if I can fill myself up in. all these areas, these romantic partners are going to. look so different cuz I'm not going to. be like, "There's this one wound that I. have and it's this one thing, for. example, the caregiver, like I need this. person." If you don't need that anymore, >> Mhm. >> then you're kind of like, "What do What. do you have?" You get to kind of look at. the whole picture as opposed to them. filling the void of whether it's your.

childhood trauma and this one person. fits that one need and they fix it for. you, then you literally are just you're. you're you're putting yourself in a. position where you are essentially. accepting way less than you actually. deserve cuz you actually have to fill. the void. They're never going to fill. it. It's going to be a stopgap. >> I was going to say like and like and. this is I can only ever really speak for. my experience, if it is coming from a. wounded place, if there's a specific. trauma or specific wound,

even if. say they give you the exact script for. reassurance that you wrote out for them, it's not going to be enough. >> It's not. >> It's not going to be enough. >> It's not. >> They can do everything right. >> Yes. >> It's not going to be enough. >> Because you have to actually get whole. within yourself. >> It's like you got like he could only. help for so long or she could only help. for so long and then eventually, once. they give you the 100% maximum effort on. caregiving or you know, whatever.

validation or whatever, eventually, you're still going to go to sleep at. night and it'd be like, "Ding ding, I. still don't feel whole in that area of. my life." And you're going to realize, "Oh my god, I picked this person because. I thought they could fill me up there.". And guess what? That's nice they do that. for you, but you have to do it for you. first. And when you realize that, you're. like, "Shit. Okay, back to the drawing. board." But that's what you just did. You went and you cleansed yourself, no. eye contact, no long hugs. Paris, I'm.

dying. Every girl is like, "Okay, maybe. I need to try that.". >> like I'm very like. I am the lead with the chin kind of. person where it's just like, "Oh, we're. getting sober? We're going all the way. Oh, we're doing this? We're going all. the way." I'm very much like, you know, stage dive into the audience. at full speed, don't hesitate, like. jump. >> Call Her Daddy is brought to you by. Ross. Daddy gang, I don't even want to. say it, but summer is almost over. I know. I. know. I know, which means back to school.

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credit score. You've got this, Daddy. Gang. Check your rate today at. sofi.com/callherdaddy. today. Loans originated by SoFi Bank NA, member FDIC. Terms and conditions apply. Okay, can you give any advice on how to. navigate a conversation where you are. ending a relationship because the amount. of women who write in to me and are. like, "I'm staying half of the reason cuz I. don't know how to end this.".

Like, that is heartbreaking to do to. someone you love. >> If If homegirl's got to stay in that so. much to the point where she hits a. breaking point before she finally has. the conversation, then that's maybe the. experience you need to have. Just like, I'm not going to. I've I've had friends in recovery that, you know, I've gotten sober with, and. they go out. What am I going to do? Be like, "You. need to get sober. You need to stop. drinking. I'm going to tell you what to. do." That's going to make them drink.

more. Like, that's, you know, it's like, "Hey, I'm here. You're going to go If you need to go out. and do more research and realize like, oh, I have a problem and I can't do this. in moderation, that's the experience you need to have. >> Is there anything that worked for you? >> In the conversation. >> work for me. >> Okay. >> And this kind of goes across the board. for like previous relationships. Tapering doesn't work. Tapering's not a. You know, and I see it happen also like. I have a couple friends that you know,

are maybe in the middle of a divorce and. like I see I can also observe and be. like, "Oh, maybe this isn't just my. experience.". Tapering has not historically worked for. me and no contact is one of the. most effective and rapid ways of. healing. Um. If I had to make a suggestion. a light suggestion. >> Light. >> Uh.

if there's any kind of spiritual. practice you can bring into it. before having the conversation. I would recommend that. Whether it's you. know, if you have a higher power or you. have multiple higher powers or it's the. universe or it's. literally anything. Prayer, meditation, anything like that. Bringing that into. it. And you know, honesty without causing. harm which is it's it's very much a. case-by-case.

You know, it's hard to give one. blanketed, "Here's the advice for. everybody going through a break." Like. it's. >> I agree. I agree with that. Another song. off of your new album Stitched it seems. to explore codependency in. relationships. A little bit. Yes, no? >> I could see how it'd be interpreted that. way. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I kind of interpreted it that way. >> Yeah, then that's what it's. >> guess that's like that's what I got out. of it. That's what it's about. That's. what it's about. 100%? This is a song. about codependency. >> [laughter].

>> You're like codependency through and. through Alex. I'm like, "Glad you". Have you ever experienced codependency? >> Yeah. >> How have you ever. >> my song is about. [laughter]. >> Okay, so I wasn't completely. wrong. For sure. >> For sure I have, of course. >> Have you ever had it where you were in. the situation where someone else. realized that, you know, they didn't. need you in the same way that you needed. them and how did you handle that. unraveling? >> Um. >> Cuz codependency is.

hard to unravel. >> Yeah. I mean it it it it can be aligned. in many ways with addiction. Um. I I've had I've I've experienced it in. so many different ways where I was the. one that had to like set up some. boundaries um or or cut it off um and. I've been on the other end of it as. well. And. it's it's tough. I mean I would I would. say in a hypothetical situation.

doing what I did last year of like, let's get right with me is is one of the. best things. Let's get right with me and. let's get right with whatever. you know, not going to give it a name, but. >> I agree with you cuz it's like almost. like when you have a codependent. situation. it almost becomes this like. I don't even want to say 50/50. situation, but you kind of are giving. half of yourself and then trying to make. it that they're the other or more, right? Yeah, you're right. It could be. 70/30, 80/20, whatever it is. And what.

you start to realize is like you're. actually not operating 100% as yourself. and as comfortable as codependency in. the moment can be and scary as it is to. detach yourself from it, you're the. longer you prolong it, the more you're. going to get so seeped into that. experience and it's going to be harder. to remove. And so I agree with you. sometimes like cold turkey and removing. yourself and then pouring into yourself. is kind of the only way to navigate. getting out of a situation like that.

It's hard. It's really hard. >> a lot of just issues in general that. that as far as like, you know, connection relationships and and just. like. anything consuming, the opposite is. well, how do I be in right relationship. with it? Whatever that thing is. >> Could you see yourself getting engaged. again? >> I don't know. [gasps]. I haven't you know, it's it's a day at a. time kind of thing for me. You know, it's I I realize that if I spend so much. time. thinking about what the next 10, 15, 20, 30 years is going to look like,

I'll get there and I'll look back and be. like, damn, I didn't enjoy where I was. when I was there and I was just thinking. about where I'm going to be at now. >> So, are you staying single or we. are we dating? Do are we in a. relationship? What's happening, Paris? >> I'm happy. >> That's all that matters. >> I'm really really happy. >> have been open about struggling with. self-love. You We've talked about it a. little bit, but where are you now. sitting here like today at with that and. what are things that you now are like, I. will not tolerate this, whether it's.

from yourself or a romantic partner? >> As far as intimacy goes, genuine. connection with a person. Um. >> Can you expand a little bit? Like, what. does intimacy look like to you? >> Safety. Trust. Uh. and there's a bit of spiritual. connection in there, too. Um. Yeah, that's that's just a. non-negotiable. Like, I don't want to. just like hook up with someone that's. good in bed. Like, I don't. >> Right. You're like, we've had that. >> I I I just I I want actual.

love. Actual, you know, um and my my my views on intimacy has. changed. My views on on a lot of. non-negotiables have changed. Uh there. needs to be some kind of like creativity. involved in in the connection and I need. a laugh. With someone that has all of the. letters, like my diagnoses that I do, as. well as like my addiction, my CPTSD, and. I just. I need to laugh. Life's too serious. >> Are you usually the funnier one in the.

relationship? >> I think it's dependent on the on the. person. Um. Yeah, but but in the in the last in the. last few years, I've definitely realized. like I I don't want to be. I don't want to. carry the weight. >> You don't want to bring it all. >> Especially cuz like my best friend is. like the funniest person I know, and and. she's taught me a lot of like I think I. get a lot of my humor from her cuz I've. known her since I was a you know, teenager. Um but yeah, all my friends, my. bandmates are so funny. My brothers are.

so funny. Like everyone It's a It's very. important. It's so healing, and it's so what life. is about sometimes. >> Are you someone that. historically like do you date people. you've been friends with or you going. like you're meeting someone and you're. immediately going to be romantic with. them? >> Um. I have learned. I am the type of person that needs a. foundation of friendship.

Uh. And that's not I definitely had issues. with boundaries when I was younger where. it's just like. whatever whoever kind of thing. Like I I. had hooked up with friends when I was. younger and and realized that, "Hey, you. know, just because this is a really great. friendship and we're in a really good. place, doesn't mean we need to take it. further to make it better.". And I've just learned that, you know, that's not for. You know, I I just I have I'm learning.

boundaries and I'm learning that but but. I also yeah, for sure. I I you know, my. as far as a partner goes, there's got to. be a best friendship. There's got to be, you know, we got to enjoy just hanging. out. Yeah, going out and doing nice. dates and stuff, but like hang out, shoot the have fun, make each. other laugh. Like that has to be. >> It has to be there. >> That's a non-negotiable. >> Speaking about your music, obviously. because the new album coming out, I was. thinking about it. Being the daughter of.

literally one of the biggest musicians. in history for the rest of time. I feel like there have been such. expectations. placed on you that have kind of. >> Expectations. >> They have nothing. >> to make you miserable. >> I was going to say that they have. nothing to do with you as a human being. It's It's all because of, you know, who. your father is. It's like somehow these. things were placed on you, too. Um how. do you handle that pressure? Or how do. you manage it? Cuz you're in the music. business, right? And so like.

>> And you know, it's uh I think. comparison's the thief of joy. And um. as far as like what I choose to do, I I'm literally just going with what. feels good to me. It It's like, oh, I. really like the snare sound in this one. Pumpkin song. I really like the way he. enunciates this word in this Manchester. song. I really like, you know, the. guitar tone of this Bad Books song. Like.

I'm. I'm doing what sounds good to me and. feels right to me. And if other people. have expectations of well, you should go. this route or you should do this genre. or you should do this. You know, when you place expectations on. other people, you're just going to end. up sour about it. Uh and that's not really my business. what other people think of me. And also, if you're going to. kind of, you know, try and turn someone. into something that is one of a kind. when no one else has been able to hold a.

light to that, you're going to make yourself miserable. doing that. Um. but yeah, I think I do think it's a it's. There's some humor to be found in like, yeah, I'm doing a grunge show. I'm doing. a rock show. I'm screaming into a. microphone. And someone's like, why. didn't you moonwalk on stage? And it's. like, that's the wrong show. Like, you. know, I'm opening up for Incubus or I'm. opening up for like The Pretty Reckless. Like, this is not uh. >> This is not that show, babe. This is not. that show. That's I love that. perspective. You. >> Get off my loafers, you know? Like, I'm.

just I'm wearing combat boots. >> We're not doing. >> Not anatomically possible, anyways. >> What do you think your dad would think. about your music? >> I don't like speaking for other people. Uh but based on what I knew about him. wanting me to be happy, I think because I'm happy, he would be. satisfied with that. Um. >> August 21st, the album comes out. Also, that's my.

birthday, by the way. We've got good. juju here, okay? >> [laughter]. >> It's your birthday. It's not my. birthday. So, thanks for the birthday. gift. >> I'll send you a vinyl. >> Uh yeah, I'll be listening. Um can you. explain what the inspiration behind this. album is? >> Um it's not like uh it's cohesive in. sound as far as like the sonics and the. production go, but it's not cohesive as far as. storytelling goes. Like, my first record. was a concept record, and it was like if. you listen in track order from start to. finish, it tells a story. This is kind of as far as what each song.

is about. They're all about different. things. Um. this this album is for is for freshman. year old P. It was like freshman year, moody, Love Nirvana and like Smashing Pumpkins. and Pixies and March Play Garden. Just. very This is for her. You know? I'm like, what if I just made. something that she would have thought. was really cool, you know? It doesn't. have to be like, "Wow, this is this is. like really well-written music." It's. just like, "No, I just want it to sound.

fun, and I want her to think that it's. cool." And the thing is it's like I I am. a folk artist at heart. I will always be. a singer-songwriter folk artist. So, So. might be where I'm headed sonically in. the future, but I'm like, "Oh, like once. I realize, oh I can scream and I can. project, like it, let's do a fun. loud record.". >> What was the hardest song for you to. write? >> The hardest one for me to write? I have to see the set list of the track. list um to think cuz some of these songs. I wrote years ago. As far as emotions go, probably Sirens.

>> That one's very emotional. >> Yeah, that was about a buddy of mine. that that OD'd. on my drugs. and I had to. handle that till the paramedics arrived. >> That was that was a rough one. >> Yeah. >> How long ago did you write that song? >> Mm, well it happened, I think it was. 2018 when it happened and then I think I. wrote the song in 2021 or 2022. and then I recorded it with Butch Walker.

and I just kind of. was just left on the back burner and I. never really did anything with it and. then when I started working on this new. record, I'm like, "That fits the vibe of this record. Like. I'm going to just throw that on there.". Um and that was. Yeah, I mean that was that was scary. because in a situation like that, you. know, even though I had experience. with, you know, being a trained first. responder, when you go into fight or flight, you.

there's no it's a gamble of how your. brain's going to react. Just because you. know what to do, your brain still might. tell you to freeze and there's nothing. you can do about it. Um. so it was definitely a lucky situation. and and the paramedics had said like, you know, if you'd gotten there any. later, he either would be dead or brain. dead. So, you know. And it's also definitely a testament to. the whole like it takes what it takes. cuz I still didn't get sober for another. year and a half after that. Like you'd. think something scary like that of like.

Nope. >> No, that's such a good point. Like it's. like almost like how people talk about. completely different but like therapy. when people are like, "You literally. can't convince someone to get therapy, to get help." Like it has to be the. person that finally something clicks in. you and you're like, "Okay, today is the. day." Family members try to convince, understandably, and it's like you have. to be the one. >> Interventions suck, dude. Interventions. suck. No one likes them. Everyone I. talked to that's had them, we all hate.

them. You know what? Depending on the situation, if the. person's ready, it works. Or, you know, it will be one step further into. planting that seed in that person that. when they are ready, they will know. where to go and they will know what to. do and they will know how to handle it. >> [sighs]. >> Didn't work for me, though. >> It's all right. You you figured it out. If you are still in touch with that. friend that you wrote "Tyrant" about, have you shared it with him? >> I've not shared that song.

But, um, I did have a really nice. conversation with him probably about a. year ago. We we caught up and I kind of. like. I was able to kind of address some of. the things that went south during that. time when I was a mess and I'm like, "This is where I'm at now and these are. the things that I'm kind of doing as. like corrective measures daily to like. no longer be that way.". >> Yeah. It's amazing. What song are you most excited to. perform on tour? >> Mhm.

"Stitched" is really fun to do. Um. But there's a there's this other song. that's not on the album and it's not one. that that I'm going to put out for a. while, but I just finished recording it. And that one's probably like the most. fun one to perform. I also really like I. always do a cover of "No Rain" by Blind. Melon and we do like a rock version of. it and I'm like shredding my voice on it. and it's fun and the audience loves it. and the audience knows it cuz like. they're not singing my own lyrics back. to me, but they'll sing that one. So,

you know, it's it's a really good time. Yeah. >> You've talked about how you've kind of. reinvented yourself many times over the. years. How would you describe this. current. phase of your life that you're in? >> D major. It's like the happiest chord there is. >> Oh, really? >> a very corny chord, but it's Yeah, it's. the happiest chord there is, I would. say. >> That's amazing. That makes me really. happy to hear. >> Or a G, cuz it's so well-rounded and.

complete. >> Okay. Throughout all of your hardships. and all the growth that you've been. through, what are you the most proud of. yourself for today? >> Relentlessness. Keep on trucking, man. it. Keep on. trucking. Just keep going. You know, open-minded, willing. >> I am so happy I got to sit down with. you. I. I had obviously so much I wanted to ask. you, and I really appreciate you being.

so open. I know you are very private. person, and I feel like kind of like you. said, like. it is very indicative of where you're at. in your life that your music, you're. like, I used to write and like kind of. allude, and now it is kind of synonymous. with what how you're living your life is. like you're pouring more in. >> like you know, even going from like my. first record is very much like I'm. singing in my head register, and I'm. like very like uh I I I want to hit the. notes that other people are going to. sound that they think they're going to.

think it sounds like maybe pretty or. whatever, and now I'm like, but that's. that's my head register. When I sing. with my chest register, it's going to. sound a little bit more abrasive. And. thank god I listen to bands like Bright. Eyes and Modest Mouse because they don't. give a and it's like that's what I. want to emulate of just like this is not. going to sound pretty, and this is I'm. not going to do like the really nice. like vocal runs of like a proper singer. I don't even consider myself a singer. So, I'm like just get it out, do the. thing, be. full. >> Yeah. >> In my fullness and in my wholeness. >> also to your life. Like everything.

you're talking about is like you used to. be understandably like you're like I. wasn't sharing as much and not that you. have to over share your actual life, but. just being more open with yourself even. the way that you've talked through this. entire conversation of like I'm now. pouring into myself and therefore it's. kind of unlocking all these different. sectors in your life that are growing. even more than you could have imagined. >> Yeah. >> than a couple years ago. Like I'm so. happy that I got to sit down with you. and get to know you because you're a.

really interesting fabulous person. >> Thank you. >> Paris, thank you so much for coming on. Call Her Daddy. You were a dream guest. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> [music]. [music].