Nara Smith: Stop Calling Me a Tradwife

What is up, daddy gang? It is your. founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call. Her Daddy. >> Nara Smith. Welcome to Caller Daddy. I'm. so excited. I am so excited to talk with. you today. You are one of the most. talked about people on the internet. Whether you are making potentially. Skittles from scratch, >> we're getting there. We're getting. there. You're in full couture in the.

kitchen. You really are at the center of. so many conversations when it comes to. womanhood, motherhood, family, and so I. just I can't wait to get into all of it. with you today. >> Let's do it. >> Nor, recently you shared online that. your daughter Whimsy was diagnosed with. cancer. And. >> first, I just want to say like I am so. sorry for what you and your daughter and. your family are going through. I truly. cannot imagine. And so just like all the. condolences sent your way. Something.

that I really was struck by is that when. you shared it online, you kind of talked. about how you were hoping that sharing. would allow other families to maybe feel. less alone and be able to feel like. there are other people going through. what you're going through. And um I. thought that was really beautiful and I. hope that maybe our conversation today. can give a little bit of that to anyone. watching too. >> Yeah, I hope that too. I think there's. something so beautiful and grounding and. supportive about having a community and.

you feel like when something bad happens. in your life that it's usually a very. isolating experience to where you feel. like no one else would get it or no one. really understands or all these. different things. But the more time I. spend in the hospital and kind of. seeking that community myself, the more. I realize that there's actually a lot. more parents going through the exact. same thing. Maybe in different ways, but. essentially the same thing as me. And I. think also by sharing it, it opened up. that whole world to me to where my DMs. were flooded with parents going through. the same thing and being really.

consolidated almost by what I posted. So. I can't even imagine and I think that's. going to be a huge topic today is like. so much of your life is online obviously. and we'll get to that cuz you didn't you. you chose to share it at a very specific. time obviously. But let's go back to the. beginning, okay? Because I was thinking. about it this morning and I'm like, >> what were you thinking about? >> I was like, I feel like everyone. remembers. the first Nara Smith video they saw. >> Okay. What was your one that you.

>> Mine was like you were in your old. kitchen. >> Oh yeah, the Dallas one. >> You did the classic like my husband said. he was hungry [laughter] for and I. literally just looked and I was like, "Oh my god." But I feel like everyone. has that core memory of like I know I. remember when she first popped on the. scene for me. But to anyone who maybe. lives under a rock that is watching. this, can you explain what people can. expect in one of your videos? >> I think it's all it's it was born out of. this very.

co it was very coincidental like we. Okay, so let me go back. I had my second. son, my first son, my second baby, and I. was feeling really crappy and I didn't. know what was going on. So, I got. diagnosed with an autoimmune disease and. my eczema started flaring up really bad. to the point where I genuinely felt. crippled by it because I couldn't really. go out. I couldn't use my hands. I. couldn't brush my hair. It was this the. bob also came from that because I was. like, I can't do my curls anymore.

because of all these health issues. So. then I also, not being from America, I. didn't quite know what it meant eating. processed food here because a lot of. ingredients in our food are not good for. us. So then I kind of did so much. research to the point where I was like, "Okay, well, I guess I'll just have to. make everything from scratch because. that feels the safest to me." So I. started doing that and then got on. TikTok and started sharing that and. that's when the whole situation kind of.

happened. And then during co I couldn't. really wear any of my fun outfits. anywhere. So I decided to wear them in. the kitchen. My daughters loved it. Um. and it was just this thing that kind of. happened. And then the voice I think. there's like components to my content. It's the cooking from scratch and then. there's the fashion and then there's the. voice. And all of these pieces were born. individually. Like the voice came from. me having put my baby down. And I was. like I've just spent so much time. putting you down. There's no way I'm.

going to jeopardize waking you up, but. we got Mom's got to work. >> But I I got to get this video up. I take. no days off. So, we just got to make it. happen. So, I spoke really softly and. quietly and I didn't wake my kid up and. then I posted it and then that's how the. voice kind of came about. So, everything. was born out of this like really. innocent place. It's really crazy to. know because I feel like everyone knows. that voice and even people have. recreated it obviously like now people. do their Nar Smith voice [laughter] and.

it's wild to be like you were just like. quickly like oo I got to get this up and. I'm just going to whisper but then after. that you were like okay people clearly. like it now I'm going to give it to. them. Yeah, cuz sometimes you don't. always do the voice, right? When I do. So, when I do my voiceovers, usually I. do the voice and then when I do talking. directly to camera, it's usually my. normal voice. >> Yeah. And then people always say, "You're yelling at us." I'm like, "I'm. so sorry.". >> Like, I'm just talking normal, but. you're used to whispering. >> Okay. What post do you remember first.

going viral? >> It was this one post where we had a. bunch of peaches at home and my kids. actually wanted bread and jam, right? every like my kids love bread and jam. So I was like, "Okay, great. Let me just. make bread for the first time on camera. Why not?" So I did. And that was the. first video that kind of popped off cuz. I was like, "My kids stumbled into my. room asking me for bread and jam." And. they actually did. Did it take hours to. make? Yeah. Did they still enjoy it and.

ask for it? Yes. So that was the first. video. And then after that, I didn't. really tap into it for a while. I kind. of just sprinkled it in because I didn't. quite realize that people would want. that and then I kind of just continued. doing it. >> So, it started a little bit as like a. this just so happened and you're like. kind of obviously recognizing okay. people like a little bit of this, a. little bit of this, but like you now. have gone on to create and curate such. specific branded world. When do you think this clear vision kind.

of came to fruition for you where you. were like this is a business for me and. I actually can execute this on a level. that's not just like a fun happen chance. thing. I think it kind of took a minute. I was everything kind of went insanely. viral when I was pregnant with my third. baby Whimsy and I didn't really see it. as a business. I was like, "Oh, great. I'm earning like I'm earning money all. of a sudden. I can do this." But I never. thought about it as anything bigger. But.

then obviously the more I did it and the. more deals came in and the more. conversations I kind of had with my. agents at the time, the more I kind of. realized, oh, I could actually do this. as a job and have the flexibility of. being at home with my kids and kind of. figuring that part out. And then. obviously now it's evolved into this. full scale business that I'm still. executing myself, which is crazy. Like I. film, I pick the outfits, I pick the. recipe, I film it myself on a tripod, I. edit it myself, and then when the kids. go to sleep, I do the voice over, get it.

up the next day. So, it's basically a. one-man show, woman show. And yeah, it's. been it's been really eye opening to now. be able to basically do whatever I feel. like. It's really fun. >> Obviously, because again, it's starting. as this like fun side thing. Do you. remember the moment where you sat down. with your husband and you were like, I. think I really want to lean in and like. fully put time and effort into this in a. business capacity, not just like a, oh,

I actually have some time on Sunday. Let's do this. Like, do you remember. when you had that type of conversation. together? Yeah, we had that conversation. in my first kitchen that you probably. remember, but I think it was more so. him. He was like, you know, you can just. do this. And I'm like, yeah, I guess. Yes. And he's like, "No, like you. actually can." And that's I think those. conversations kind of happen, but I. think they kind of happen naturally. because I'm a very ambitious and driven. and hardworking woman to where there was.

no option but to film and get the video. up. So, it wasn't even a conversation. where I was asking for permission or. asking for anything really. I was just. like, "Well, got to watch the kids, hun, cuz I got to film." And that happened. more and more. and he's like, "Well, can. you maybe come up with a better schedule. cuz this seems a little hectic." I'm. like, "Yeah, okay." But I think it just. kind of organically happened, but there. was no other option in my mind cuz if I. do something, I do it. So, I love that. so much. I love that you're like,

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Can we talk about. making something from scratch is one. thing, >> Miss Nar Smith? >> What are you going to tell me? But then. you look at things that you've made from. scratch. [laughter]. Okay. And we've got we've got cough. drops. We've got cereal. >> We've got chewing gum. >> I love a good homemade gum. >> No. [laughter] No. The chewing gum. I. was like, I can't believe this woman. No. I I I was like, there's there's no.

way. And I think that's how some people. feel. They're like, is she actually. being serious? Is this real? Does she. actually make it homemade? Like I I I. guess my question is like how. intentional are you about selecting. recipes that you know people will have. the reaction I just had where you're. like no way. >> I think it really depends. It sometimes. gets born out of me seeing something at. the grocery store and being like can I.

make this at home? Sometimes it's Lucky. telling me, "Oh, I really want you to. make me Takis." Like do you think you. can do that? cuz he's obsessed like. obsessed with Takis. So I'm like I'll. make it for you or I think about these. random things and challenge myself. So. it kind of is and sometimes I'm like I. think this would be really fun. >> So it really is this like it's a mix of. different things. >> Okay, that's fair. Um your fashion. choices have evolved. I feel like when I. was looking back at your earlier videos,

it was like a cute. >> It was very cute. >> like dress. >> sometimes a little apron on more. realistic I guess you could say. Now. obviously we're hitting full couture in. the kitchen baby. >> The gloves. The one with the gloves. >> The scap gloves. The ones with the. nails. I was terrified of ruining them. I'm like I'm so sorry Daniel just making. some rice pudding. >> It is crazy though to see that. evolution. Can you talk to me though. about those beginning days of Yes, I.

know you said like I wasn't getting to. wear any of my cute outfits out of. COVID. You know, you're in your kitchen, but like. >> did you also have any understanding of. the way that you were presenting and. what you wanted to present as as a woman. in these videos that you were making? >> Yeah, I think. that one's a tricky question because at. the time when everything kind of started. for me, I was pregnant. So, I'm the type. of person I will never buy maternity. clothes. I refuse. I'm not going to do.

that. But that was just me. I didn't. want to do that ever. So, and I was a. very like jeans and like t-shirt type. girl. Obviously, I loved my fashion, but. I was also a street style girl when I. lived in Europe before. So, I told Lucky. when we dated, I was like, I'm never. going to wear a dress. Like, good luck. And then when I was pregnant with my. third, I was like, well, can't really. wear my pants. I guess dresses. And then. those were the dresses that I would. naturally gravitate towards like the. very cute I felt very feminine during.

that pregnancy. So that's kind of what I. naturally gravitated towards and that. kind of expressed itself in the cute. collars and the very feminine looking. dresses that I guess. people connected with different things. But that wasn't like intentional. It was. more so I was pregnant. I needed to wear. a dress and I felt very like whimsical. and feminine during that. So that's kind. of what my fashion choices reflected. And I didn't fit a lot of like couture. dresses cuz at a bump. >> You had a bump. That That's where And.

I'm sure you can kind of. >> Yeah. Let's get into it. >> I can feel you can probably feel where. I'm going with this girl cuz I'm like. there was an image that started to be. created. And while people loved your. content, I think a larger conversation. really started to bud from Nara Smith. and who she was and what she was. standing for and what she was. representing for women. What do you. remember just about the early commentary. around you and your brand in your.

videos? >> I at that point I was very much online. So I would read the comments, I'd be. like, "Well, this is weird because I. don't feel like that." And my reality is. so different to what people are assuming. based off of the 1 and 1/2 minute videos. they see. So I was very confused where. that conversation came from. But then. the more I like read about it, I'm like, "You know what? Yeah, but I'm also. correcting the narrative, but you're not. listening." So. >> yeah. So let's call it what it is. People started to compare you to Tradife.

and people were like, >> "You kind of used me as the poster child. for the TRD wife movement, which was. very bizarre to me.". >> Why was that bizarre to you? >> It was bizarre to me for a multitude of. reasons, but let's you know what? Let's. Google what the definition of a tradife. is. >> Well, that's perfect. I was actually. going to ask you, what do you consider a. tradife? >> Well, I had to look up the term because. >> because I wasn't familiar with that, right? I didn't quite know what it. means. But the fast answer is a trad. wife is a woman who embraces or promotes.

a traditional model of marriage and. family life where she typically. prioritizes being a homemaker and a. primary caregiver for kids. Takes. primary responsibility for cooking, cleaning, and managing the household. Supports her husband's role as the. primary bread winner. Often values. traditional gender roles within. marriage. So with that definition and those. points, I'm none of that. And we can go. through it point by point. I don't. prioritize being a homemaker. I'm a. working mom. Like, I am out in LA. I.

travel a lot. I sure do. I love cooking. because it's my passion and because I. kind of have to do it given my. autoimmune. Absolutely. But that's a. passion of mine. It's a hobby. It's not. something that I need to be doing. for what. >> Right. >> Right. >> Keep going. I like this. This is good. This is good. >> Primary caregiver for my kids. No. My. husband and I split it 50/50. Like when. he works, I watch them. when I work, he. watches them. And now, given everything. that's been going on, we also have help.

My mom's out. We have someone that helps. us with the kids because it's just not. doable for me to do it all. So, that. doesn't really work, right? Takes. primary responsibility for cooking, cleaning, and managing the household. Yeah, I like to cook. Okay, sue me. I. like to cook. My husband burns. everything apart from a good steak, so. he'll do that. But I like cooking, so. I'm doing it. Household and cleaning. He. does the dishes. I don't touch the. dishes. There's no way you're going to. see me washing and scrubbing the dishes. Also, he cleans our house because he.

grew up [laughter]. he grew. >> Yes. Lucky. His mom was like very very. specific with cleaning to where they had. like Saturday crew and like he has. sisters. So like someone was in charge. of the baseboard, someone was in charge. of the toilet, someone was in charge of. this. So he's like very like specific. with how things need to be cleaned. So. he does it. >> perfect. >> So that doesn't make any sense. supports. the husband's role as the primary bread. winner. No, we both work like that. That. doesn't make any sense. Like I provide.

for our family. >> So really, I think what's happening is. they're taking the image of a woman in a. kitchen in a. >> gorgeous Yeah. dress and they are. assuming that this is your life and we. are going back in time and this is like. a very traditional in. >> I think there's also a bigger. conversation to be had because. everything that I've been reading online. I find it very. concerning almost that we need to put.

women in very specific very narrow boxes. in order to make sense of them I don't. think so why can't we do it all Why. can't we be a working mom that enjoys. cooking, that enjoys being at home and. taking care of our kids, but also is on. the next plane out to LA to take. business meetings with big executives? Like, why why is why can't that coexist? And I think that's something that's very. concerning to me that a woman can't. exist under any terms but the little.

boxes we put them in. And, you know, media literacy is another issue, but. it's like I do think that you are. creating a brand, right? something. that you're presenting, we're only. really seeing for a while one version of. you, which is a lot of the videos you. started with is saying like, "My husband. is craving this, so I'm going to make. him this." And so it leaves a lot of. room for assumptions, right? Well, she.

looks like she's wearing the dress. She. looks this way. She's making this for. her husband. And so some people could. argue, well, for a while we didn't see. the business side of you. We didn't know. any of this, so we were assuming that. you're just like stuck in the kitchen. making these things. But obviously now. as you've opened up more, like we're. getting to know a little bit more about. you. So did you at all see why people. could think that way in the beginning? >> Yeah, 100%. And. >> how did you deal with that though? >> Crying to my husband. [laughter] I'd be.

like, what is happening? Did they not. know that I worked as a model? I've been. working since I've been 14. Like all. these things. But I think I I am very. fair and compassionate. Like I. understand where that can come from. But. then the more that narrative started. swelling. I was like, well, let me say. something. So I remember posting this. video of this like morning routine and. my voice over was me being a working mom. and traveling and kind of debunking all. of that. But then a lot of the comments.

were still that narrative and I realized. that a lot of the people that are very. very stuck in this narrative do not want. to be corrected. >> I they don't want to hear that. >> There was this one situation with. someone on my team where. >> we were trying to work with this person. and the person was like I don't care. what you say, what you do, what you show. me, what Forbes articles you you show me. of her business. Like she is a trad wife. to me and I don't want to work with her. So that kind of opened my eyes as well. to the like to the opposite end of I.

think I could sit here all day and try. to de try to debunk this narrative when. some people not everyone but some people. just don't want to be corrected. No, they don't. And I also think there is a. frustration around um. people want something to just be at face. value what it is and and some people are. really lazy and don't have any interest. in getting underneath something. And you. can even go all the way back to the. beginning days for Caller Daddy for me. Like the girl that only talks about sex. like well of course there's more to me.

And I of course saw like there was. something in the market that there was. no one talking about it in the way that. it would. Like there's so much more. But. I think when you it's easier to kind of. like pigeon hole a woman and kind of. keep her in that lane. I also think it's. very threatening to be honest to think. of you as more than just like a very. gorgeous woman who is making these like. concoctions that are so extravagant. you're also a businesswoman and you're. fully aware of what you're doing and. you're editing it, you're putting it. together. Like. >> then you're the whole package and we. don't like that as a woman. No, because.

then you're a threat, right? >> And so that's so interesting that that. woman was like, I don't want to hear it. >> It was actually a guy. >> Well, but the women aren't different. Like I've stumbled across a fair amount. of women that like are exactly like. that. So I think it's not very gender. specific. I think there's just a bigger. issue as a society that we have. Can you. talk to me about in a in a cute way. obviously like I referenced there's a. lot of videos that you were like my. husband is craving this so I'm going to. make it. What do you think. >> early days because I do think we've.

gotten to know you and Lucky a little. bit more and that just happens sometimes. with time and yes unfortunately you. lightly having to share a little bit. more but like early days what were some. misconceptions you felt about you and. your husband and those dynamics and how. did that impact you behind the camera. with the two of you? I I don't really. know exactly what those misconceptions. are because I kind of took a step back. from the internet, but I think one of. them is obviously the tradife narrative. that there's like very specific gender. roles. Like, do I like my husband.

filling up my gas tank? Absolutely. Do I. like all these things that like I don't. want to be doing? Yeah, I don't want to. close my own suitcase. Do it for me. But. I think that there was all this like. misconception around like him being this. very specific dominant male person when. behind the scenes it's not like that. So. we were always like we've always been. very like equal and like understanding. of each other and like there was always. a conversation that we had. So I never. felt like whatever the public saw was.

what was going on. >> Interesting. I Okay. So, something I. took from your book that was. interesting. Um, also congratulations. It's beautiful, homemade. We're going to. talk more about it. Um, but something. you said is a lot of what I do is tongue. and cheek. I push buttons. I follow. instincts. >> Can we talk about leaning in because. I'm. a like I think there's a version of. like, you know, it's working.

>> Yeah. 100%. even if it's pissing people. off, like you're still going to put on. the dress. >> and it's going to look. >> like it's going to look. >> and how do you balance that? Cuz I think. that there are some people that can say, "Okay, you clearly are aware that like. >> people are assuming this looks a little. tad wifey, right?" And so some people. can say, "Well, she's leaning in and. she's it's brilliant. She's making money. off of it, but she knows who she is. clearly." And then other people could. say it is regressive. like how are you.

towing that line? >> I think I've also evolved in my personal. style. Like obviously during my. pregnancy it was very feminine and kind. of leaning towards that aesthetic, but. now not being pregnant I fit all my. sample size clothes. So let me just go. do that. And now it's like now I don't. necessarily see where the that tradife. angle is coming from because I don't. think a trad wife would be cooking in. like scaparelli, you know, or a mosquito look straight.

off the runway. Like I don't think. that's what a trad wife would do. So now. I understand even less. So that's like a. little tricky, but I feel like, you know, let them think what they're. going to think because also. it is interesting. I feel like I've had. a lot of fascinating conversations with. women in this room where it's like. >> we are all aware of the society we are. still living in and the double standards. for women and I I think it really paints. the picture of like hearing about that.

reporter. >> the Nara Smith who came on the scene and. there were a lot of misconceptions there. you are never going to change specific. people's opinions they will always. remember you as just that girl. I am. still labeled sometimes like the girl. that talked about or whatever. and I'm like oh my god that was a decade. ago I wow it's crazy like and I've. interviewed all these different people. detached from what the per the public. perception is so sometimes I don't even. really. >> recognize it but I think what's. interesting is there's also the debate.

about being a woman and finding that. perfect balance of like recognizing. well why don't why don't I just lean. if this is the society we live in and. this is what's happening but not losing. yourself in it. So, like I I think. that's where. >> there's a lot of nuance to it, I guess, is what I'm saying. And so the voice and. the dresses, >> it's smart. You're monetizing off of. this thing.

>> And I get people who don't understand. the nuance can just be enraged in the. capacity that is lightly pushing on the. boundary of like it was a gray area. >> People like the gray area, N. But I feel. like I don't mind being in the gray. area. Like it's I've kind of detached. myself from what the public perception. is because I know I'm not that. And I. feel like here's the thing. I tried so. hard to correct the narrative, right? People didn't want to listen. I'm still.

kind of I'm like this is not what I am. So I want to make it very clear. And I I. think if people don't want to understand. that, they don't want to understand. that. And that's just all right to me. But I do I do want to push people's. mental boundaries to be like, "Oh, a. women can exist in all these different. spaces." And I feel like I'm trying to. do that. And another reason why we're. talking about this is because I think. people should really try to listen. because it's not just me. I think that.

women in general in all different areas. of their lives get put into these. categories. And I want to have that. bigger conversation of let's not do that. as a society. Let's let women exist in. the spaces that they want to exist and. not pigeon hole them into one specific. thing because women are multiaceted. Like we do it all in whatever capacity. that is whether that's in in the working. field or at home or wherever that may. be. And I think let's have a bigger. conversation and not zero in on what I. do because it's not accurate. It's such.

a good point and I appreciate you. clarifying that because I agree like. it's not your job to clarify it, but it. is frustrating when I think you see a. woman in media who is such a good. example of the double standard of like. why are we painting you in this one. capacity. We're pretending like she's. just slaving over her husband in the. kitchen and it's like that's just not. what it is. Yeah. I don't know. I don't. know what to tell you, but let's have a. bigger conversation here and see what. really is the issue because I'm not the.

issue. Something that is happening for. you is the issue. So, let's chat about. it. >> It's very threatening. It's very. threatening. >> Let's chat. >> Daddy gang, today's episode is brought. to you by Sour Patch Kids. Anyone who. works at Unwell could tell you we keep. them literally everywhere in the office. You're in edit bay, Sour Patch Kids. you're in a conference room. Sour Patch. Kids. My desk drawers, multiple packs of. Sour Patch Kids. My pockets, Sour Patch.

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Patch Kids are always a solid option. Lean into your mischievous side with. Sour Patch Kids. Let's talk about kind of this concept. of, you know, people labeling you and. projecting things onto you when it comes. to motherhood. >> Yeah. What do you think would surprise. people about how you and Lucky. compliment each other as parents? >> Maybe how involved he is. I think. there's this I don't know what it is,

but there's this like standard where. people are like, "He's holding the baby. He's watching the baby. What do you mean. he's watching his baby? He's a dad, of. course." So, I think there's this like. weird societal thing that's happening. where it's like who who's watching the. baby? What do you mean he has two? Like, we're he has a dad. And I think what's. hard is people again really struggle. like you post so much online. And so, if. you're the primary one that's like.

posting, they somehow believe that. >> he's not a part of certain things. And. it's like, no guys, there's like a. complete other life outside of social. media that people choose to not post. very selective with what I post and how. I post and how much I share of my life. because I used to be a lot more open. But then the more traction my social. media got, the more people came to my. page, the more people like kind of. pieced things together that were so. inaccurate to what was going on to where. I kind of felt like I had to take a step.

back and really evaluate what I show and. how much I show. Can you give an example. that kind of forced you to be a little. less open? There was this incident of me. posting my kids and then there was this. Tik Tok video where someone I don't even. know how they got it, but they got like. a story that I posted on Instagram about. my daughter like a year and a half prior. to me even having Tik Tok. So I'm like. where did this video come from? It was. an Instagram story, not even an infeed. post. And it had millions of views and. it was just her sitting on the couch and. she's so cute. But the comments, it had.

like 200,000 likes. It had like 8,000. comments or like so many and so many of. the comments were like I can't wait for. her to be older or her eyes are so. pretty or look at those lips and then. I'd go on the profiles and it was like. old men to where I realized I'm actually. doing my kids a disservice by exposing. them and making them vulnerable on the. internet to where I'm like okay kids are. off limits. So when I do work shoots. with the kids, like there was this. Skiims photo shoot that we did, a. holiday shoot we did last year where I.

told the team I'm like, I would love to. do a family photo shoot, but these are. my boundaries. And a lot of people I. work with are very understanding. Ski. was so understanding about it. Um, so. accommodating, but there's just there's. dangers on the internet that I need to. protect my kids from. So that was one of. those experiences. or just like little. like books they'd see in the back or. like the whole religious thing. I'm. like, m no, but okay, I get why you're. saying that. So, let me take a step back. because you're actually misunderstanding.

things I put out. So, I kind of put. myself in this little bubble to where I. I just want to keep things that are very. personal to me personal to me. >> Yeah. Like I think there's been. obviously such an uptick in the. conversation around posting children. online and it's. >> a really controversial one just because. of the amount of. >> evidence we're seeing of how destructive. and exploitive it can be. Um and seeing. how many disgusting people are online.

and are consuming the content in a way. that you wish this is not the world that. we lived in. But unfortunately that is. the reality. And so to some degree it is. the the parents job to protect the. children. How have you and Lucky like. what is the boundary of like when to. share when to not share? Yeah. I think. we kind of take it situation by. situation because if Vogue came knocking. on my door and they were like we want. you and the kids on the cover. I'd be.

like well if my kid grows up and I say. no to that would they feel like they. missed out on some like I don't know. there. Like we definitely talk about it. situation by situation, but when it. comes to social media and social media. content, no kids faces. I don't want. them being recognized. I don't want. anything. So I just they're a part of my. life. So obviously they can be a part of. my content, but then it's just them. running around or whatever to not see. their face. So, I feel like I'm still.

navigating kind of how to what to show. and what not to show because I I care. about my community and I love that we're. all in this together and that people. like show up and support and like I've. really built a close relationship with. my community to where I feel like I. really want you guys to see as much of. my life as you can, but then also I know. that I have to set boundaries because if. I don't then what are you going to do? >> Yeah. It's also so hard. It's so. interesting you're saying this because. I, you know, I was talking to someone.

recently about it and the conversation. around sharing your children online. I'm. like, it's so crazy to me though that. the people who don't, you see a lot of. women get like, oh, she must be a bad. mother. Like, we never see her with her. kid. And I'm like, I'm already ready for. that for me cuz I'm like, oh my god, people are going to be like, she's never. with her kid. I'm like, no, no, no, >> I don't post my kid. There's a very. different. But again, if it's like they. don't see it, then they don't believe. it. >> They don't see it. Yeah. >> That's that's kind of been an ongoing.

thing. It's like, "Oh, where are your. kids? What are you doing?" Like Lucky. never he's never with his kids. I'm. like, if I were to turn this camera. around, you would see four screaming. kids and Lucky trying to wrangle them. all. But I'm I'm not sparing you and all. you see is me in my pretty dress making. Skittles, okay? >> Because we're just keeping it for the. brand. We're uploading a video that you. want to see. Enjoy. Right. Talking about. motherhood and family, what is something. from your own childhood that you are.

intentionally wanting to replicate? >> I think the curiosity. I feel like. growing up, I was always very encouraged. to be curious and ask about things and. understand how things work and be. knowledgeable about things. My dad was. very German growing up. He would play he. would play this game with us where he'd. get a globe. It would light up like a. world globe and he would spin the globe. and then he'd like stop it and then he'd. like point to this. He's like, "What is. this country? What's the capital? How.

many people live there?" And we do that. was like our like he would not chase us. around the yard. he would do that with. us or he would get me this like really. thick I remember it was a thick purple. velvet just book about Greek mythology. and he would like quiz me on it or like. a book about Maria Antoanette and I was. like what six or seven so I think just. that knowledge and that curiosity it's. made me very aware of things and like. I've always had this like deep feeling.

of just but why why are we doing this. why are you saying these things to me. like what's the bigger. message and I want our my kids to like. really have that understanding of the. world and like really dig deep when it. comes to things. I don't want them to be. followers. I want them to be leaders, strong leaders. Have you noticed at all. cuz I know they're young, but like have. you noticed any of them having that same. curiosity that you have? >> Oh, Rumble, my 5-year-old, she's exactly. like me. I'm like, tone it down a little. bit. >> Wait, you're like, hold on. >> Yeah, it's really funny seeing their.

personalities slowly emerge. Rumble is. like me. Slim is like lucky. Very quiet. and reserved, but so smart and so. brilliant. Whimsy, she's like our little fiery one. But I. >> She's the third. >> She's the third. >> I'm the third. Sounds like me. >> So So you get it. >> You're just constantly pushing buttons. >> Pushing buttons. But she also like no. one's going to tell her crap. And she's. also very aware of situations to where. like if she doesn't like someone, there's a reason. So I'm never like,

>> "Be nice." No, >> you don't question her. No, I don't. question. I know what you're doing. Cuz. she's very observant. And then Fonnie is. just 9 months. She's along for the ride. >> We're going to figure that out. Yeah, we're going to figure out Fonnie. Figure. [laughter] that out. >> I'll see you I'll see you later and. you'll give me the update. >> Yes. >> Is there anything that you're doing. differently that you're like, "Oh, I. want to change that from my childhood.". >> Patience. I think my my parents weren't. very patient. So, I think just being. patient and trying to really get on. their level, >> which from what I understand is like a.

huge thing for parenthood that you're. like, >> I'm struggling. >> Patience. >> Patience. >> Right before you're like, don't freak. out. Just give yourself patience. It's. that word. I need to paint that. everywhere in my home. >> No, truly. I think that's something that. has been really hard for me cuz I'm very. like, let's just do it. Let's just like. why aren't you putting on your shoes? Like, let's let's go. And I just really. had to like take a deep breath and I'm. like they're they're tiny humans. That's. what I remind myself of. They're like.

tiny humans that haven't done a lot. before and you just need to realize that. like putting yourself in the state of. mind they're in. Like of course they're. asking me why they have to go to bed cuz. they don't know what time it is or. what's going on. Sure. Patience. >> You know, patience. >> Um what did love look like in your house. to you of like your parents? >> [laughter]. >> What is that face? You know, um, my. parents have a really complicated. relationship. They've always been so. loving and they they were the best.

Well, they are were they are the best. parents ever. They've taught me so much. and have really grown a lot also. And. now as an adult, I see them totally. different. I think being married now and. having kids where I might have been hurt. as a teenager being like why are you. guys fighting or why are you doing this. or now I have a lot of compassion for. each of them individually and together. to where I understand the choices that. they've made. I understand why they did.

certain things. So I think my. relationship with them has really. changed and evolved over all these years. but yeah they didn't have the best. marriage and they didn't have the best. dynamic at home. So, a lot of. a lot of things that I'm unlearning now. stemmed from that, but I love them so. much and I have a great relationship. with both of them. >> Did they [clears throat] stay together. or did they. >> They're still together, but it was very. tumultuous. So, >> you know, no, but I think that's. interesting of like when when a lot of.

people grew up in a tumultuous situation. with watching their parents, but then. there was a divorce or a separation, >> that also can teach you to like really. stick things through. But at what point. is you not right? And so like I'm sure. there's Yeah, I'm sure there's things. that you're trying to figure out of like. >> how do you handle conflict when you and. Lucky are fighting if you watch. something very particular and specific. repeated in your household. There's like. some unlearning that has to go on.

>> Yeah. And the older I get, the more I. realize that my parents are great. parents, but when it comes to their. marriage, they were not the best example. for marriage whatsoever. So I think then. getting married married at a really. young age. We got married when I was 18. and had our first baby when I was 19. So. I never had a good example of how to. navigate conflict, how to navigate a. disagreement, how to navigate speaking. my mind without feeling like I cannot. like all these things that were internal.

to me, not so much about my partner, right? It was was never that much about. my partner. It was more about me and the. things that I've learned. And we we've. gone to couples therapy. I think that's. a great tool. I think doing therapy. yourself and like really just looking I. feel like being married is like a. mirror. Like you're all of a sudden in. this space where you're confronted by. all the things that you may or may not. be doing wrong or things that you've. learned that might not be the best for. you and then all of a sudden you have to. work on that because elsewise your.

relationship will not be the way that. you'd want it to be. And like thinking. about that, Nara, I completely agree. And then adding on the level of having. children in the midst of also trying to. be you're young, you're taking care of. yourself. You're, you know, fostering. your relationship with your husband. >> And then I know you've got four kids in. five years. >> Yeah. My oldest is five. Yeah. Yeah. >> In five years. Last year you did post. about struggling with postpartum. anxiety.

>> Yeah. And can you just describe what. those first few weeks after having your. daughter and giving birth, like what. were those like? Each pregnancy was so different. My. first pregnancy and my first experience. postpartum was like, what the heck is. happening? Because I feel like we always. talk about conceiving and then being. pregnant and then birth, but what. happens after? And I think being young. and maybe me, I was very impulsive. I'm.

like, "Whatever. Yeah, I'll have a. baby." Um, so I never really sat I never. did a birthing class. I've never read. like a a book to the end. Sure. Did I. start? You know those like books that. you always get the like baby whatever. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> I got a few pages in and then I'm like. whatever. So I I clearly didn't really. know a lot. But then when I had my first. baby, even giving birth, I'm like, "Oh, the baby's out great." And then they're. like, "Okay, you need to keep pushing. at the placenta. I'm like, "What. placenta? What are you talking about?" I.

had no idea. And then postpartum all of. a sudden, well, I gave birth in like my. midwife's office, which was had a. bedroom. So, it was like a birthing. center, but not really. I don't know. It. was a room with whatever. So, I got sent. home with this baby right after giving. birth. And I'm like, I don't know what. to do. I have no idea, but I'm just. going to follow my gut. I've always. always been the type of person to like I. know in my gut what's right and I know. I'll know what to do. And then I had my. mom-in-law there as well to help cuz it. was during co so my parents couldn't.

come. But that first experience was. really rough but I think I also just. like kept it pushing. But then my fourth. experience and then each experience was. rough in whatever way but my fourth. experience was she was a surprise baby. So, we were done after our third and. then I found out I was pregnant with her. and I was freaking out. I remember like. everyone I called my agent my didn't. tell my parents for the longest time. I. didn't really want to tell my agent, but.

then I'm like I don't fit anything I. need to tell her. I was at like I was at. the Scaparelli show wearing this dress. and I just remember I flew into Paris. that same morning and I was just. throwing up on the way there. I'm like I. actually need to tell people. So, I was. terrified because I just I don't know. what that feeling was, but I just knew I. was at a point in my career and in my. home life where I felt very settled and. I knew what the pregnancy would do to my. body and my mental and like all these. things and my stamina. >> Speaking it into existence would make it.

more overwhelming. >> Yes. So, I didn't want to tell anyone. Took the longest time to tell people. I. truly like really just didn't think. about it at all until it hit me right. before she was born. I'm like, "Oh, I'm. actually having a baby." And then like. all the emotions kind of came in and. then I went into labor. on my birthday actually [snorts]. right after midnight she was born. It. was a great labor whatever I gave birth. I was sitting there Lucky helped and we.

were sitting there and then the next. morning I woke up and that was one of. the it was one of the scariest. experiences postpartum for me because it. genuinely felt like everything was a. dream. I told my I told Lucky I was like. it feels like I'm going to wake up. tomorrow and I would have never been. pregnant. I don't have a baby. I don't. like this doesn't feel real. What is. happening? I was terrified. I told him. like I don't feel like I'm here. Am I. here? Like did I like I looked at him. one night and I'm like did I die? And he.

got so concerned he called his sister. and his mom and he's like is this. normal? Like what's going on? And then I. didn't tell my midwife because there was. like this whole I just have sometimes I. have a hard time conveying like hard. emotions to people because I want to be. seen as this very like collected strong. woman to where I don't want people to. think I'm unwell. [laughter] No pun. intended. Um and it was really hard and. I I had really bad postpartum anxiety. for like 2 weeks. I remember I didn't.

tell anyone I gave birth online. It took. me like a hot minute to like let people. know because it felt like it didn't. happen. Every morning I'd wake up. looking at this baby being like, "Who. are you?" And I'd never had that. experience before. And that was really, really hard. And then the postpartum. anxiety kicked in to where I was like, "Well, I don't know what to do." Like, "I don't know." And then through it all, I still had to work. Like 3 weeks after. she was born, I was shooting cookbook. images. in where was it? The Catkills or.

somewhere like somewhere like an hour. and a half. I don't know where it was, but we were shooting at this house and. she was three weeks old and I just had. to keep it pushing. So, it was almost. this like. I was so disconnected from myself. >> and your body reality. >> like everything. It felt like I was. living this like warped reality and it. took me a hot minute to find myself back. in my body and like. >> understandably.

>> Yeah. And then the minute I did I was. like, "Oh, we've got a rhythm here." you. know, like everything's okay. We find. out Whimsy has cancer. It was just a. mess. And then on top of all of that, I. was still posting my videos. I was still. posting stories and being like, "Today. my kids were while internally I was like. crumbling. Truly crumbling." And I was. like zipping up my dresses being like, "Okay, let's just go do it. Let's just. take the meeting. Oh, next flight out to. here. Okay, I'm bringing the B. Oh, pumping. Okay, wait." Like it felt like. this like. >> you're just going in autopilot to just.

get through, get through, get through, get through. and you're like not. processing anything. >> deadlines for the book. Like there was. no messing around. There was no messing around. >> I think that something that you're. describing is probably one of the more. realistic experiences that women have. after birth. And I think that even. saying that out loud, >> there's a lot of women that are like, "Is that is that true?" And it's like, "Yes." Like almost I would say, let's. say I have 10 of my girlfriends that. have children.

Seven of them have had extreme. postpartum anxiety, really intrusive. thoughts. Like I remember when I got. pregnant and my friend came to me and. basically was like, "I just want to say. something, not to freak you out, but I. want to say it before you give birth cuz. I need you to remember this moment.". >> She basically was like, >> "There is a chance, and I hope it. doesn't happen to you, but there is a. chance you're going to have some really. crazy dark thoughts.". >> Yeah. like crazier than you could. probably ever imagine. Really intrusive.

thoughts. >> and. it's okay and it's actually way more. normal, but no one talks about it. because as a woman, like you just said, you didn't tell your midwife cuz you. want to present as strong. And then. there's the added level of like you just. gave birth, you should be so happy, you. should present as this okay figure. because also like the mother not being. okay. Like oh my god, what's wrong with. you? as much empathy cuz you don't have the. baby in the belly. Like you got to get. your together. And so there's all. these pressures to like bounce back and.

get back. And it's like. >> I can't imagine the internal struggle. emotionally that you were going through. and that you had to fight that battle. somewhat on your own. Of course, you can. share it with your husband, but like. >> it's on you in in a capacity. Of course, you should share it, but like it's. overwhelming. It's so overwhelming and I. think it doesn't get talked about enough. and there's not a safe enough space for. women to really voice how they're. feeling. And I think it is really.

important though postpartum to be open. I think that's what I learned through my. last experience. I'm like I really wish. I would have told my midw wife or gotten. a therapist or someone to just help. navigate because on a physical level. like your hormones plummet. That's just. what it is. It's like you go through. like the largest plummet in your. hormones that you can. >> ever can possibly have in your life, >> right? So, I think. >> as women, I I really encourage everyone. that's that's having a hard postpartum. experience to really seek help because I.

promise you're not going to get seen as. weak or not capable or whatever. More. so, it will give you the tools to really. have that community. And even with. intrusive thoughts, like no one talks. about it because it's it's scary because. you don't want anyone to think that you. would ever do anything to your baby or. that you would harm yourself or that. whatever it is. And no one really. creates that safe space of it being. okay. But it is okay. And you can also. have people in your space that will. understand and help you navigate it. So. many women who've gone through it would.

be like, I'm just telling you, they're. like, yes. But to a normal person maybe. who. >> they're like, what's wrong with you? You. need help. But not in a way that's bad. More so in a way of like let's support. and give you a good foundation to feel. your best. Not because you're bad, but. because you need a stable foundation. And I also think like when you there is. something in life where it's like if. this is happening so regularly. that is then the norm like that is. normal to it's not normal to live like.

that forever but there is clearly. scientifically proven that women after. all of these hormones drop like you're. going to go through this potentially. >> It needs to be talked about. >> It needs to be talked about. I hope this. makes women feel less alone and also. we're hopefully just through this. conversation chipping away a little bit. at the stigma of postpartum, the. anxiety, the intrusive thoughts like you. are not alone, you are not crazy. And. that is where I think women coming. together and talking about it makes.

other women finally feel like, oh my. god, there's like a woman that's going. to watch this right now and be like, girls, I never needed that more than to. hear that I'm not insane for having. these thoughts. No, you've just gone. through the most lifealtering. experience ever that you will ever go. through. Give yourself grace and also. recognize that you literally you've. grown a human being. Every single bit of. this human being you've grown from nails. to hair follicles to organs to brain to. skull, everything. And then you've given.

birth to this human being. and then what? You're just supposed to. resume business as usual. No, that's. like physically not how it works and. mentally not how it works. And I think. we talk about the physical maybe even. more than the mental. Like I feel like. postpartum in general is not talked. about enough, but if we do talk about. it, it's like, oh, you're going to have. this or you're going to not be able to. do this or like let's figure out the. nursing or whatever it may be, but no. one necessarily talks about all the. things that could happen mentally after.

It's so true. I was thinking about that. um because it is such an adjustment from. your your mind and your body and and. they're both going through such. different things. >> Yeah. >> A large conversation around postpartum. bodies. I mean that's a constant. conversation, but I feel like. >> you kind of got put into the mix after. you gave birth to Ponyie. I did. Some. people online really celebrated how.

quickly you appeared to recover and they. were talking about, you know, I think it. was like a mirror selfie or whatever it. was or a picture of you. Um, and then. while others talked about, you know, the. pressure that this puts on women to. bounce back after having a baby, how did. you feel about being a part of that. conversation and how have you navigated. that? I think that's postpartum looks so. different for everybody. Bodies are. different for everybody. Some some. people bounce back really quick, some.

people don't. Some people get stretch. marks, some people don't. I think that. we as women should uplift every single. woman postpartum. And I think yes, did I. post a picture that maybe evoked emotion. in other women or other people in. general? Yes. But what people don't. realize is that to me that picture. wasn't me at my best and my normal. I. was crying that same morning. I was. wearing a diaper in that picture. I was. wearing linen pants because I didn't fit. a single one of my denim pants that I.

had. I was way above my usual weight. Like I didn't feel like myself. And I. posted that picture being like, I don't. feel like myself, but my body is magical. because look what it just did. And I'm. really proud of that. And that was my. postpartum experience. But I think in. general we should celebrate everyone for. where they're at postpartum. I. completely agree. I think that there's. such a pressure when it comes to.

the even just the concept of bounceback. culture. Again, focusing more on like. how we do it mentally, girlies. Like the. body is the most incredible thing that. like women and the fact that we are able. to do what we're able to do in these. moments is insane. And so just to be. alive after that experience is like, yes, I'm happy. And so I think. understandably people are going to have. insecurities that come with again. extreme changes, but to. >> put another woman down for how something.

she can't control and also you shouldn't. feel like you have to hide. >> Also, my experience wasn't I think it's. one thing what the public sees, but then. it's also so different to how I feel. I. think that being a mother looks so. different for every single person. And I. think we should really celebrate. everyone for where they're at and the. safety that it takes to share whatever. they want to share. Like I think that we. should really just make it a safe space. for women in general, regardless of what. your postpartum looks like, whe whether.

you bounce back or you don't. Because to. me, someone bouncing back might look a. certain way, right? I'm like that per. cuz I compare myself too sometimes. I'm. like gh that mom really just did it. she's thriving. She just did this. But. being a mom myself and having gone. through birth, I'm like, what she shows. me is probably her best or she wants to. show parts of herself that she feels. really good about or that she wants to. share for whatever purpose that may be. I'm not going to compare myself to. anyone. I was gonna say I think that.

actually leads us perfectly into this. next conversation because it really is. such an indicator of like guys we also. just anything you see on social media. you don't have the full story even. freaking close like at this point I am. convinced we are maximum in moments. getting 10% of a lot of people's lives. and that is some for some people. generous. >> like you said as you are navigating. postpartum you find out that your. daughter Whimsy has cancer.

>> Yeah. >> Can you explain just like how you. decided for you and your family that it. was the right time to even share this. news publicly? It took a lot. I told myself I'm not. going to get emotional. Sorry. Sorry. [laughter]. [gasps]. I got tissues. you're good. >> Um,

I think I mean it all boiled down to. when we found out about everything and. then all the behind the scenes and. everything that was going on. Lucky and. I did have those conversations and my. fear I always had this like lingering. fear. Well, what if someone takes a. video of us in the hospital and they put. it out or cuz when we were in the. hospital people would come up to us and. say, hey, can I get a picture with you? Can like can you say hi to my friend? and they probably didn't know that we. were going through the hardest time of.

our lives. So, obviously, I smiled and. said, "Of course you can." and took the. picture, but I was always nervous that. people would kind of piece it together. or someone would talk or someone would. whatever. And to me, her safety and. privacy was the most important thing. [snorts] So, I would always go back and. forth with Lucky and saying, "Should we. just share it? Should we just talk about. it? What if someone else does?" And he's. like, "But that doesn't matter." like. what do you feel like in your heart? And. I always came back to the fact like I. don't want to share it. I don't want to.

like talk about it. I don't want her out. there. I don't want any of that. So then. as time went on and as we went through. all the treatments and had really hard. days and slightly easier days, I found a. lot of community in the hospital talking. to parents or the nurses or going on. Reddit and like reading people's. stories, like all of that. And the more. I kind of went through that, I realized. that I find a lot of comfort in knowing. that I'm not alone. So then when she.

right after her birthday, she she was in. remission, we finished her last. treatment, we rang the bell, it was very. emotional and I just realized, well, maybe if I use my platform to make even. just one person feel less alone, I can. do that. And that's kind of why we shared it. >> I can't even imagine, Na, you. being in that hospital and the anxiety.

of trying to protect your baby and also. being this public person. And I'm sure. there was just like so many emotions. around like, oh my god, I want to like. turn this part of my life off right now. cuz like this is all that matters. And I. can I can imagine the anxiety on top of. already like the trauma that you and. your family are having to endure. >> It was really hard. >> when you found out this diagnosis. Like. what do you remember about that day?

>> I just remember we were actually coming. back from a big family photo shoot, the. holiday one, and my mother-in-law, she. talked to Lucky and she was like, "I I. saw this thing. don't be alarmed, but like maybe you. should look at it and talk to Nara about. it. So then Lucky came into the room. I. was nursing Fonnie and he said, "Don't. freak out, honey." Not that I usually. freak out, but like he was like, "Just. just look at it and see how you feel. Should I take her to the doctor?" I was.

like, like what happened? Did she get. hurt or like what's going on? And then. he was like, "No, I don't think so. My. mom just saw this." So then he was like. I was just like, "Let's just be safe and. take her to the ER." Then we took her to. the ER. The was like, "We don't really. know what to make of this. Just tell us. if it gets worse." And I was like, "Okay, well, maybe it's just like a kid. thing. I don't know." So then later that. week, I took Fonnie to the pediatrician. for the first time. So I rang him and I. was like, "This is what's going on with.

Whimsy. Do you think I can bring her to. just have a look?" So we walk in there. and he does her first. So he looks at. her and then I just remember him going. quiet. He went quiet and like very calm. and collected. And in that moment, like. my heart just dropped and there was this. like weird gut feeling of being like, "Oh, she has cancer. I know she has.". Cuz my mom before that, she'd gone. through a year of chemo treatments for. breast cancer. And it was gruesome. And. it was so hard to watch her go through. that. And there was always this. lingering fear of this like sickness.

that would come. So then I was like, "Oh, she has cancer." But I didn't want. to say it to Lucky. Like I I did hint at. it and he was like, "No, honey. You. can't like you can't think like that.". So then he didn't even I don't even. think he looked at Fonnie really. He was. like, "You guys need to take her to like. the closest hospital." So the closest. hospital was the Yale New Haven. Children's Hospital. So I drove back. home with Fonnie because our other kids. were at home and he took Whimsy and long.

story short, there were a bunch of like. biopsies, ultrasounds, scans, whatever. And then a week after that initial. visit, we got a phone call and I just. remember standing in the living room and. the phone rang and it was this like. weird gut feeling. I'm like, "Oh, it's. the hospital. They're going to tell us. she has cancer." I looked at Lucky and. I'm like, "This is it. Let's just brace. ourselves and like it's cancer." And. then. you could just tell by the voice and. they were like, "We're so sorry. She has.

cancer. You guys need to start like. treatment immediately." And then they. took her in. Then she started treatment. They tested her further. Did a few more. scans and they were like it's really. it's spread in her body. So like you. guys need to this is the treatment plan. This is what she has to do. And it was. really hard. So we lucky kind of did the. majority of the cuz you would go home. and then she would go to the hospital. for 5 days and stay there for Monday to. Friday every like 16ish days depending.

on what her blood count was. And Lucky. did those overnight stays because I had. Fonnie at home that I was nursing and I. couldn't be away from her. So I would go. during the day and then obviously try to. also work and like do that. So it was. like playing Tetris almost. And then we. had our other kids. So it was really. really hard and it was a really tough. experience and every day you would wake. up and not quite know what's going to. what the day is going to bring, what the. doctors are going to say, what like is. the treatment working, is it not? like.

all these different things to where it. it was really hard. Yeah, >> N I like I am so sorry even just hearing. you like no parent should ever have to. experience this. No child should ever. have to experience this. I can't imagine. the um emotional toll also of trying to. be present for multiple children while. also wanting to be present for the one. child that is sick and going through it. Um, it als.

I'm. curious like in that darkest moment. where you so you get that phone call as. a couple like what how did you I think. it was a lot of being on autopilot. because I think when I'm faced with a. crisis whatever that crisis may be I'm. like, okay, there's no time for. emotions. There's no time for anything. It's like zoning in and doing it. So, I.

think at first, like, we didn't process. it, but I think it was we were both on. autopilot, making sure that she was all. right, making sure our other kids were. all right, and it didn't really hit us. yet, right? So, we were like, "Okay, let's let's do it. It's like fine, I. guess." And we were very communic like. we communicated a lot. I was checking in. with him like, "How are you doing? What. are we like he was checking in with me. Um because you always hear when couples. go through a really hard time, it either.

makes or breaks you. And a lot of the. times I feel like I've heard about. couples kind of drifting away, but I. feel like it's even it's brought Lucky. and me even closer together because we. were we really had to rally for whimsy. So. yeah, that was that was just an insane. experience. And then the more time went. on, her hair started falling out and you. like could physically see it. Like she. would get really nauseous and like all. the things that come with someone going. through chemo treatment. And I think. that's when it kind of hit both of us.

And then we started like crumbling a. little bit to where when I had a hard. day with it, he picked me up. When he. had a hard day, I picked him up and we. were like, "Let's just keep going." It. felt like we were, you know, that game. where you're like tied to someone else. and you have to make it to the finish. line together. That's what it felt like. And every time I was like, I don't think. I can go any further. He was like, yes, you can. Like, you can. And then vice. versa. So, I think it really it required. a lot a lot out of both of us, but we. made it. How did you explain just like.

the changes that were happening to your. other children? I think they were at an age where they. could kind of get it, but kind of not. But there was this book, I don't. remember the name of the book, but it. was this book about cancer that a mom. wrote after her kid went through I think. it was brain cancer to like make sense. of this situation. So we read this book. I think it was something and the hair. fairy or something to where it talked.

about like this this cancer. It was like. described as like a gummy ball in your. body or something like that and that you. would lose your hair and then the hair. fairy would come and like you should. just put your hair somewhere and it's. going to take the hair and like it was a. very beautiful kid story and all my. 5-year-old took away from that was like. I want the hair fairy to come. [laughter]. So I was like, >> I don't think it works like that, but. like sure. And then as time went on, like they would have these random. questions to where I also realized like.

maybe it is like on their minds to where. I would like Slim would ask me, "Is it. like can I get cancer?" I'm like, "No, it's not contagious. It's like trying to. explain it." But they would ask these. questions in the most random situations. to where I knew that I just had to be. like extra present with them and extra. loving and kind of just explain things a. little bit. >> better for them. >> But yeah, what um what kept you. hopeful in some of your darkest moments?

knowing that I wasn't alone, like the. community and knowing that there's. parents out there that are and have gone. through similar experiences that have. made it out the other end and were. fine, I guess, [clears throat] in. whatever way you want to interpret that. But also just the fact that I can't give. up hope. If I give up hope, Whimsy will. And I need to show up for my daughter. And I need to make sure she's all right. And she like she will be all right. I'm.

going to make sure of that. And if it's. not this treatment, it will be next. treatment. Like there was there's never. there was never the thought of like. giving up emotionally or physically to. me. >> Do you have any if someone a parent is. listening right now who happens to be. going through something similar like do. you have any advice that you would want. to share? >> I just want people to talk about their. emotions with anyone that they feel. comfortable with. I think it can feel. like a very very isolating experience. that you don't really think anyone else.

would understand or go through or. whatever. But the more community you. seek, the more you'll find people. showing up for you in ways that you. never thought they will. Like even by. sharing that, I've had so many people. reach out and offer support even though. now we're in remission. So it I I waited. until we were because I never like I. couldn't stomach going through. everything at the same time. But having. people reach out or sharing their own. stories or even sharing how other people.

showed up for them. I think community is. so important and I want you to go seek. that. >> Yeah. Because there's a huge community. out there that's so beautiful. How do. you think this experience has changed. your family's just like day-to-day life. now? I think it's made me at least. really be present and grateful for every. moment that we have. It's made me really. just see even the small mundane things.

as something that. I enjoy doing and I want to find the. beauty in and make extra special. Like. even if it's setting a table a little. bit more elaborate than I wanted to or. making them their favorite meal cuz like. why can't we have mac and cheese. tonight? I I I'll make mac and cheese, you know. So, I think it really made me. cherish those small moments that before. I was very nonchalant about. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> in what ways do you think this. experience allowed you to see Lucky in a. different light?

I've never thought about that question. in that way, but I think seeing how. tender he is and so loving and. supportive and like there was no and. optimistic like there was not a single. moment where he didn't show up for. Whimsy, for me, for the kids, for. everybody as like a strong partner and. father. And sure, did did he have really. hard moments that we worked through. together? Absolutely. But it just showed.

me just how. beautiful this family is that we've. built together and how each and every. person has a part that's so integral for. all of it to work properly. >> Yeah. I I remember you had said um that. you guys had gone to couples therapy. before. Like. >> how did the foundation that you guys. have built really. >> prove to be a solid foundation during. this time? it. I like this is something that no one.

thinks is going to happen, right? So, when we went to couples therapy, [laughter]. I was like, let's just do it to really. build a strong foundation. I wanted to. make sure that we have the tools cuz he. grew up in a different way than I did. And we both bring baggage that maybe. we're aware of or maybe we're unaware. of. And therapy gets a bad rep. Couples. therapy gets a really bad rep. It's. like, "Oh, you're going to get divorced. That's why you're going. What's wrong. with you guys? what's wrong. Sometimes. like nothing's wrong and you just want. to have the tools to have the best life. Like I want to have the best life in.

every aspect of my life. And that to me. comes with work. Sometimes harder, sometimes easier, but it's work. nevertheless. So we kind of learned the. tools of I think one thing that was. really big for us is communication. We. kind of talked at each other a lot, but. never with each other. So, I think that. came really in really handy with this. experience to where even though I might. have felt whatever I felt, I created the. space for him to feel the way he felt.

and for him to communicate that with me. and for us to work through that together. and really be heard by each other. >> Oh my god. I can't even imagine how. integral that was to the success. essentially of you being able to just. like every day get through this because. like you said I I agree. I think you. hear so many stories understandably of. people losing their way with their. partner because. >> grief and trauma like you're you're. trying to regulate and you're trying to. be there for your child who you're.

putting first and so like it kind of. becomes an afterthought sometimes about. your partner. it kind of has to be. And. so I think to know that you guys were. able to. >> really try to tap into that is so. beautiful and I'm just also probably so. beautiful for your other children to try. to. >> he's my best friend and I think that's. also what really helped. Like he's not. just my romantic partner. Like he truly. is my best friend and I don't know what. I would do without him. So it almost. like our friendship and our.

understanding of each other really. helped in every aspect and our kids too. like they I think having that. relationship to sure do we fight. sometimes or bicker or argue absolutely. our relationship is not perfect like I. don't think anyone's relationship with. anyone is perfect but I think our kids. have seen us like really rally and. they've seen us maybe have an argument I. think it's healthy sometimes for them to. see that but then also see the. resolution of it and how we find our way. back to common ground. Like I think all.

of that was really important for them to. see and I think it's just been a really. humbling experience and hard. >> You have been through how old are you? >> 24. [laughter]. >> Yeah. You have been through so much. life. >> I have. And you are so impressive. Like. obviously. >> you're now coming out with this. cookbook. >> Yes. >> Homemade. It comes out October 13th.

>> Yep. >> And it's so interesting because we've. watched you on Tik Tok. We've watched. you making these concoctions, but to now. put it into a book, and I love it. because it's not just recipes. You're. actually kind of telling the story of. like how you got to where you are today. Why did you feel like now was the right. moment to do something like this? When I. started with the whole Tik Tok thing and. my recipes and videos gained traction, a. lot of the comments were, "We need a. recipe book. Where are the recipes?" So,

I started with my Substack and then just. realized that I I love a good book. I. really do. So, I I'd also never owned a. cookbook, which is weird. I'd never. owned a cookbook. And then writing this, my publisher was like, "Um, so have you. ever read a cookbook?" I'm like, "No.". She's like, "You need to go go get. some." Um, but through this whole. process, I just realized I want all of. my recipes in a book that can live on. someone's counter and be kind of. timeless. I want it to be on your. counter for a very long time.

>> Hold up the book. I want to see it. >> The whole thing. >> Promo that thing, girl. >> No, it's so cute. Even the back. Like, it took. >> it's it's a labor of love. Something I. also need you to talk about is um there. is someone that is very reoccurring in. this book that you often bring up and. your grandmother. >> Oh like who who [laughter] are we. talking about? >> Your grandmother. Um what is one of your. earliest memories with her in the.

kitchen cuz I know that she inspired a. lot of your love for cooking. Her and I. were really really close. She was the. one that taught me how to play the. piano, how to read. like she was very. much involved and I just remember there. were a few things that she would make a. lot. One of them was oatmeal, like this. cinnamon rich oatmeal. I've never been. able to recreate it, but it was. phenomenal. And that was one of my first. memories with her in the kitchen to. where she would like wrap my hands. around the spoon, tell me how to stir. it, plate it up, sprinkle it with more. cinnamon, and she was just this warm,

very And then we'd sit on this like. bette in her kitchen and behind us it. was just like a wall of black and white. cat pictures. [laughter]. >> Such a grandma thing. >> A whole wall full of cat pictures. I'm. like, this is crazy. But yeah, that was. one of my first memories. and she's. always been like an inspiration. Even. like I got psychic readings once by like. this religious medium. It was my grandma. that would pop up in all these things.

and she was like, "Your grandma's. wanting you to know this. Your grandma's. really proud. Your grandma's like. looking over you and I see her standing. at the piano. What does this mean?" And. I'm like, >> "Crazy." So you did see her. >> So you did see her. That's I was. thinking about it too because even you. saying like, "Oh my god, I don't I still. haven't been able to recreate her. oatmeal." Like by you putting finally. your recipes in writing. I feel like. you're right. So many people for so long. have been like, "Nara, where's the. recipe?" And I'm like, I've been I can't.

tell you, but like I'm working on it. I. promise. But I couldn't tell anyone for. 2 years. >> Okay. What is the first recipe you knew. had to be in the book? Ooh, that's really hard cuz we were. going through lists of recipes for so. long. But I knew that like my cookier. recipes had to be in it. Like I know you. want to know how to make an Oreo. Let me. give it to you. Right, Cheezits, you. don't have to buy that anymore. Let's. just make it. So those recipes are in. there. But then I also cook a lot of. normal meals. Like I need to feed my.

family. I need to feed myself. So, here. are some recipes that I actually like. genuinely cook on and offline for. >> they're a little less. >> they're like. >> cheese it. >> I know sometimes you just have like an. hour to get dinner on the table. Let me. let me tell you how to do that. >> Okay. Okay. So, you were giving us. range. >> Range. >> I appreciate that. >> What is one recipe that took the longest. to get right? >> There's this one recipe in there that's. like a sour dough bread but not with a. starter. >> Oh. to where it was like, I'm not going.

to make you feed your starter for like. cuz Okay, the recipe started off as like. I'm going to show you how to make your. starter. Feed it every day. >> Yeah. Like, what do I do? Like, Nora, I. don't know what to do with a starter. >> Yeah. So, I'm like, that's like 2 weeks. of work for a loaf of bread. I'm so. sorry. >> Okay, so this is going to help me have. no starter. >> No starter. You still kind of get that. same thing. It will only take you like 5. to 6 hour. Okay, that sounds crazy. still, but like for bread, that's not. that long. No, no, >> cuz it's also hands-off work. I've heard. literally people in LA like I have got a. hookup for someone who has starter and. >> I literally no Alex you don't understand.

my friend she lives in Utah and she had. a starter and I was at her house with my. kids and I was like moaning to her I'm. like I don't my I had to throw my. starter away and she was like you can. have some of mine like Willa's really. doing it and I'm like great. So she sent. me home with a starter. I flew around. airport like through security. I could. take it which I don't know whether I. could actually or whether the guy just. knew me and he was like. >> he's like he's like I see that starter. baby. >> I see that starter. Just go. [laughter]. Just go. Just go. I don't know. I would.

travel with it and feed it like every. Airbnb I was in. >> Feed a starter. >> Water and flour. >> I'm so stressed, Nora. >> No, I need to show you. It's really. easy. >> I wanted to have fresh bread in my. house. >> No, I love fresh bread. But I'm like, I. need to send you the bread recipe in. there. I also have a sandwich bread. recipe. Like I think the baking ones. took longer. Actually, Cinnamon Toast. Crunch cereal took so long. >> Okay, so how like idiot proof is this? >> Very, >> cuz I'm the idiot.

>> But here's the thing. I think a lot of. people have this misconception that I'm. this like professional cook. I'm a home. cook, honey. I started cooking at the. same time as you saw me starting to. cook. Like when I posted on TikTok, that's when I started cooking. >> That makes me feel good. >> Yeah. So like, >> so I could maybe figure something out. >> Some of these might be a little. technical, but with the steps you can. figure it out. And then some of them are. so easy to where you just throw some. lentils and sweet potato in a pot and. you'll be fine. >> So I think Yeah.

>> I wanted it to feel accessible to. people. I didn't want it to feel like, oh, all you're getting is from scratch. recipes. No, I wanted it to feel like an. essential book that you can get started. with and feel comfortable with. And like. like my cooking takes trial and error. Do you know how many times I've made. things? Like I tried making Twizzlers. the other day. Horrible. Didn't work. out. Toss that. So, it really is trial. and error. Call Her Daddy is brought to. you by T-Mobile. Daddy gang. Summer is. officially here, which means the Euro.

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destination wedding, or just like simply. leaving town to pretend your inbox. doesn't exist for a few days, you're. covered on America's Best Network Daddy. Gang. Hook yourself up. >> We need your expertise. >> Yeah. What is it? >> I'm going to throw you a scenario and. you're going to tell me what I should. make from scratch. >> Oo. >> You ready? >> Yeah. Tell me that. >> You want to impress at a dinner party. >> What are you bringing? >> I'm hosting. So, I'm not not bring. >> Okay. [laughter] Okay. Me being like, I.

will never host a dinner party. I'm the. girl that orders the takeout and puts it. on the plate and pretends I made it. >> I've never done that. But that sounds. fun. >> Genius. Okay. What are you making for. your dinner party? >> See, here's the thing. I love a good. menu and I love a theme. We have to have. a theme. We have to have a menu. So, let's figure out the theme and then. figure out the menu after. But what I do. love, I'm a little biased. Like a roast. chicken. Here's the thing. A roast. chicken feels impressive if you do it. right, but it's very hands-off. It's. like one of the easiest. Like that's the. dinner I make when I'm like, I have no.

idea what to make. It's a roast chicken. cuz you like do it, pop it in the oven, and then you do a bunch of sides. I like. things that you could prep the night. before and then just plate the next day. >> Done. Okay. Your kids come home from. school absolutely starving. What are we. making? >> Bread and jam. >> Bread and [laughter] jam. That's a good. answer. You're trying to seduce your. future husband. >> Yeah. Steak and fries with like a sexy. like pepperc corn sauce.

>> Oh yeah. >> Okay. You need a pickme up comfort meal. after a really tough day. >> Beef pie. [laughter]. >> Okay. Your in-laws are unexpectedly. coming over in 30 minutes. What are you. making? >> Something American. Let me tell you. that. Maybe a No. Tacos. Tacos. My. dad-in-law loves his little tacos. >> Okay. So, I make some tacos, but it's so. different from how you like Are you. making your own taco seasoning? >> Well, what do you mean? Like mixing.

spices together? >> Oh, is that what it is? >> You just take like cumin and whatever. and like put it all What do you What do. you do? >> Oh, I get like the you know the taco. packs from the grocery [laughter] store. >> Oh, that's an option. >> Yeah, but. >> I mean taco seasoning is chill. You just. have to have you have your spices and. you throw it together. >> I never thought about it [laughter] like. that. >> Yeah. >> When I said idiot in the kitchen. Oh, so. I could I could just kind of. >> you can just make it yourself. >> Well, of course. >> like make your seasoning like dry the. bell pepper and like grind it and make.

it put on the beef to make it have that. little like zest. >> Oh, you just like Okay, you probably. have a rack of spices in your kitchen, right? And you just throw them together. Whatever makes sense for like the. cuisine you're going for. And then I do. love a good like I like a good sweet and. hot thing. So I make my own salsas. I. also have this really good recipe in my. book actually. I'm not trying to plug it. but. >> um it's like a roasted pork situation, pork tacos with like two different.

salsas and you can put the pork on in. the morning and put it in your slow. cooker and then not think about it until. dinner. >> That's what I'm going to try. Then you. could either make your own tortillas if. you want to or you can just store bought. >> storebought. [laughter] So we're not getting crazy, girl. >> If I'm making my own salsa, then I'm. probably hitting up the tortillas at the. grocery store. >> You know what? Or you do the tortillas. and buy the salsa. >> Which one do you think? Which one's more. impressive for me? How are you making. your own We have so I have so many.

questions. >> Corn flour. Is it corn flour? Masaharina? Yeah. A little bit of water. Wait, what do you order for takeout? >> Is this controversial? >> No, I I love a good takeout. I really. do. I think sometimes there's something. so beautiful about someone else cooking. for me. >> How many nights a week are you like. cooking in your household? >> I try to cook every night. Sometimes. like the other day my chickens got eaten. by a fox and I was making chicken and I. was like there's no way. So I got take. out. >> Oh yeah, that [laughter] that feels a.

little. >> It felt a little barbaric to me. >> Morbid. Oh wow. So you're like, "We're. going to. >> It depends, but I usually order takeout. that I don't really want to make. myself." So it's Indian food, >> Thai food, Vietnamese food. I would. never order something I could make like. b ordering a burger for takeout on. Postmates. Criminal activity in my. opinion. >> Crazy. >> Yeah, [laughter]. >> that who would ever do that? >> Sometimes it's a necessity, right? But. for me personally, I I.

>> You would hate to see me come in. If I. pulled up my Postmates's order, you're. going to be like, "Ale.". >> Yeah. I would actually be like, "Let's. just tweak this. How about we do Indian. instead?" So that that that I would much. rather order. >> Okay, last one. You're over halfway. through your pregnancy. >> Ooh. >> It's 10 p.m. Asking for a friend. Suddenly, you need something. You want. to make something. Yummy. What are we. making? >> Like, how much time? >> You got an hour. >> Oh. That changes the game.

>> They're Oh, 30 minutes. >> I would make Okay, I don't like this, but I know Americans love their. chocolate chip cookies. I would make. chocolate chip cookies and then I would. make Well, I would probably have ice. cream that I made in the freezer, but. you you postmade some vanilla ice cream. and then you put your ice cream sandwich. together. Hot chocolate chip cookie, but. like not hot cuz then it will crumble, but like warm vanilla ice cream in the. middle. another chocolate chip cookie. and you press it together. Get yourself.

an ice cream sandwich. And if you're. feeling fancy, you melt some chocolate. and like dip it and let it harden. You. do that. I love you. >> I [laughter] am so going to do that. Oh, that's a good one. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I'm craving that right now. >> No, it's good stuff. And like you don't. have to like spoon it or do the whole. thing. It's like an ice cream sandwich. And you can also prep those in advance. and put them in your freezer. So you can. just pull them out and you get like the. perfect vanilla ice because sometimes. when you buy the pre-made stuff, you're. like the vanilla ice cream sucks or the.

cookie sucks, but you can get it the way. you want to get it. >> You are blowing my mind right now. >> It's it's it's like talking to an expert. and I'm like this child that's like I. I'm trying to absorb some stuff is going. over my. >> pregnancy craving cuz that's what I want. to know. >> Okay, so in the beginning obviously I. was like nauseous. I wasn't craving. anything. Then I started craving. In-N-Out. A classic. >> A classic. And so when you're like, "Oh, ordering burgers." I'm like, "No, no, I'm going to In-N-Out." Well, cuz that's. fair. >> Fair. That's fair. We'll take that off. the list cuz that was my craving, too.

>> Okay, fair. But I would want it weirdly. in a lettuce wrap. >> And then I also wanted to get a Flying. Dutchman. >> You're me. >> They're so. >> We're one, [laughter]. >> Nora. >> That was me. >> So good. And then you do chili or Yes. Oh my god. Of course. I didn't. >> We have the same order then. So good. was me. >> And then I started craving donuts. >> Oh. >> Which was taking me down like a weird. path. >> And I was like every morning my husband. would come to my bedside and I would say. like bring me a donut and a little.

coffee. And I was like so happy. >> So that was good. I love that for you. >> And so I've gone through like some weird. phases like it's it's kind of hit or. miss sometimes, but for right now I'm. like I'm really really liking my ice. cream right now. So this is why it's. really hitting. No. No. I'm not making. it. Look at you. Perfect. You're going. to make homemade ice cream. I'm like, Nara, >> do you know what's really good though? If you love an ice cream, is the Jenny's. birthday cake ice cream. >> My will. Oh, okay. So, that's what I'm.

on. And but right now, I don't know if. you did this when you were pregnant, but. like I need a lot of different tastes. kind of happening at once. So, my bowl, N is like mint chip, then vanilla, then. chocolate, then strawberry, then I have. some cookies and cream, then I have some. salted caramel. And I need all the. tastes. >> Yep. Yep. Yep. And then I just lay there. and I'm like. >> And you're like, "Okay." But I could. only eat like three bites cuz I'd feel. so full so quick. >> immediately. I have so many questions. after this and ask you cuz I'm having. issues with pregnancy pillows and like. I'm trying to figure it out. >> We'll talk offline. But um.

>> you I wrote something down. >> Yeah. >> We're rounding out our conversation now. I feel like we're having girl talk. I. thought we're in front of cameras. Okay. Um you talked a lot about wanting to. build something that lasts. >> What does that mean to you? One thing. that I've always strived for is. longevity. I want the business and. whatever I'm creating to grow alongside. me because it's unrealistic for me to. think that I'm just going to be doing. this for the rest of my life. Like, I'm. going to grow and evolve. I'm only 24. I. don't know what the next 10 years have. in store for me, but all I know is I.

want to be working and building my. business and growing to where I I enjoy. so many different things. Like, obviously, I love my social presence. I. love cooking. So writing the cookbook. felt natural. I ended up being in a. movie where I had that whole experience. to where now I want to do acting. So I'm. taking acting classes. I also want to. build my own brand, >> you know. Well, we'll get into that when. the time comes. But I think people are. really going to love it. It's going to.

be really fun. So we're working on that. And then just kind of figuring out TV. that space just I feel like the world is. my oyster and like the most grateful and. humble way I could possibly say that. because I'm so grateful to have the. community that has put me in this spot. to be able to really execute my vision. and I'm so grateful for it and really. excited for the future. I mean, I'm so. happy that I got to talk to you because. all the way back to the beginning of our. conversation just talking about the. misconceptions and the labels and I.

think it's just like another testament. to what you said earlier of just like. why can't we all get more comfortable. with celebrating women who are. multifaceted and have drive in multiple. different areas and how about this are. thriving in multiple different areas of. their life and instead of that being a. threat and something that we want to. ignore or downplay let's look celebrate. it. >> Celebrate it. >> We should all just help each other and. like really just uplift each other. That's all I want to do. >> No, I'm so happy I got to meet you. I.

really appreciate you also. I know we. went through so many different topics. and I know that so many of them were. extremely personal. >> Well, thanks for making it a safe space. >> Of course. No, thank you for coming on. Color Daddy. >> Thank you. [music]. >> [music].