Monica Lewinsky: An Intern vs. The President (Full Episode)

Daddy gang, picture this. You just got one of the most prestigious. internships in the country and you feel. like your career is about to take off. You're so excited to be working. alongside your boss who is without a. doubt the most important person and. everyone loves and admires this man. One day he starts to show you attention. He even begins to flirt with you and one. thing leads to another. and you guys end up in a full-blown. secret relationship.

For a while everything's great. He's. giving you gifts. He's making you feel. special. and you confide in your co-worker. telling her everything about the. relationship. But then one day you're at the mall. and the FBI surrounds you. They know about you and your boss's. relationship because your co-worker. secretly recorded your conversations and. turned them over to the FBI.

They tell you if you don't cooperate. you will go to jail. Suddenly, every explicit detail of you. and your married boss's relationship is. released to the public. Next thing you know, your face is on the. cover of every newspaper and every news. channel is talking about you. They call you a [ __ ] and a [ __ ] They. criticize your body and they embarrass. you every single day for decades to. come.

You're not allowed to talk to your. friends about it. You can barely leave. your house. Your name and reputation. are completely ruined. and your life crumbles before your eyes. Daddy gang, this is a true story. This is Monica Lewinsky's story. When Monica Lewinsky was 22 years old, she was an intern at the White House and. she ended up in a two-year relationship.

with her boss, the president of the. United States, Bill Clinton. Their relationship was exposed to the. public after Linda Tripp, a woman Monica. trusted as a close friend, secretly recorded their phone calls and. handed them over to the FBI. After that moment, Monica's life was changed forever. She became the sole focus of a massive. investigation that resulted in Bill. Clinton's impeachment.

and her very public downfall. Despite, and I. want to emphasize this, despite the 27-year. age gap and a clear abuse of power from. the president, Monica was the one who was ripped apart. in the media. Her name became synonymous with. [ __ ] and she was relentlessly. slut-shamed, body-shamed, and publicly humiliated for years.

Daddy gang, unfortunately, as women, we. are. way too familiar with the double. standards of how men get treated in this. world. versus how women get treated. While Bill Clinton still gets to embrace. and enjoy his life in the public eye, Monica has spent years working through. the lasting effects of this trauma. So, now, it is Monica's turn to reclaim her name.

and share her side of the story. What is up, Daddy gang? It is your. founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call. Her Daddy. Monica Lewinsky, welcome to Call Her. Daddy. Thank you. Thanks, Alex. I am so. happy we're finally meeting. It's been a. long time coming. I've been looking forward to this. conversation for a very, very long time. I think Thank you. there's so much that we're going to talk. about today that a lot of the women that.

listen to my show will be able to. resonate with and also learn from. So, thank you for taking the time. Um how are you doing? Uh I'm good. I'm a little nervous. I. still get nervous with these kinds of. things, but in general I'm good. I'm. excited. It's a um. it's a very busy. it's a time As you know, launching a. podcast, it's it's a lot more than I. ever could have imagined. That's what I. was going to say. Congratulations. Thank you.

You are launching this podcast, obviously. First, you survived being the face of a. global scandal when you were 24 years. old. Yeah. Now you're launching this podcast. called Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky, and basically you're discussing what it. means to take back your name. Yeah. Why. did you want to do this now? Well, it felt um it kind of felt for me. like it was the next step. for my own reclaiming and my own.

experiences of having lost my narrative. and lost my life at at 24 and what that. journey or process has been like to come. back that in many ways that's in the. bones of the show. I think this idea of. um. losing something and getting it back. Let's talk about it. Your life. completely changed once the news broke. of your relationship with President. Clinton. Can you.

take me to the day Yeah. the world finds out about this? You find out that the world knows, where. were you and how did you find out? So, just to to reel it back a few days, I I. found out about the investigation. several days before the rest of the. world did. There was a um a sting. operation that happened in a shopping. mall. Um and then I was up in a There. was a Ritz-Carlton attached to this. shopping mall, and I was in the hotel.

room really. realizing that what felt like my life. was over. Um certainly my life was going. to change, and that I was threatened. with jail, and. um. essentially told if I didn't cooperate. and wear a wire that I would go to jail. for 27 years. So, um Oh my god. And so, I kind of saw this. train starting to barrel down the. tracks, and I really felt like the 21st.

January 21st opening the door. I was. living in the Watergate apartment. complex with my mom, and so I remember. opening the door. And these were in the. days where people would get a newspaper. delivered, and in DC it was always. several, like the Post and the New York. Times. And And so, and I remember seeing. my name above the fold, and the um in.

the investigation, and um. looking down the hall and seeing the. exact same newspaper outside everybody. else's door. And it was um it was. shocking. It was terrifying, and um. I I didn't. I didn't actually know how to process. anything. And And really it was a moment. where life as I knew it was over. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by. T-Mobile.

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It is time to block their number, then. go and hit up T-Mobile when you're ready. to really be taken care of. Check out. the VIP treatment at. t-mobile.com/benefits. One, my heart just breaks for you. because. I'm thinking about myself when I was 24, and I'm thinking about all of the women. that are watching. When you're 24 years. old, like. your frontal lobe is still not fully. developed. 100%. You're. in a situation that like how would you. know how to respond that you're saying.

they're coming to you and saying if you. don't wear this wire, you're going to go. to jail? Like were you able to confide. in at least like your mom? Like did you. have to hold all of this by yourself in. that moment? Well, I I think the moment. in the. um hotel. So, in the hotel room, they wouldn't let. me call anybody at first. So, um and I. had a a pager. So, my mom kept paging me, and um. eventually they I said I was like,

"Look, if you don't let me call my mom, she's going to really start to worry.". So, they finally, you know, they all. huddled. There were a whole bunch of. them and they were in this connecting. room to the hotel and that my the room I. was in, the connecting hotel room had a. whole bunch of other FBI agents in it. and um lawyers from the independent. counsel's office. And so, um the. they finally said, "Okay, you can call. your mom." And this is in the days of,

you know, a a handheld phone. So, I'm. I'm holding the phone and the agent. finger over the hang up button. And so, it was this, you know, you just. begin to understand. um. subtly, maybe not so subtle, but the kind of. nonverbal ways that you're starting to. understand how much trouble you're in. When I had to go to the bathroom, they. went in cuz there was a phone in the. bathroom, they took the receiver out of. the wall. So, it was um but eventually I.

was. uh allowed to go. ask for my ask for my mom because they. wouldn't there was a a point where they. all came in the room. This had been a. few hours and I had. kind of refused to cooperate still at. that point and um. they had really they sort of sent in the. heavy and at that point it was um.

the kind of the pressure tactics and so, I basically said, "I I can't make a. decision unless I talk to my mom." So, they let me finally let me call my mom. and. um. and then she came down from New York. and um. and was So, I was waiting for her to. come down and then she called my. dad who was at a medical conference and. with his best friend who was a who was a. malpractice attorney, which is how I.

ended up with a malpractice attorney as. my first attorney. There's a level of. like we can't fathom what as a young. woman you were feeling in that like. pretty terrifying experience of all. these people telling you what you needed. to do. You don't have a chance to think. for yourself. I had asked to call a lawyer. It's a. from moment one because I think we all. you know, we all know from TV in the. movies, right? Like when it happens in. in TV in the movies the the usually a. man comes and flashes their badge.

You're like, "I'm not talking to you. without my lawyer." And they said, "Well, that's fine, but you won't be. able to get as much information and help. yourself as much." And so and then I was. actively discouraged from getting a. lawyer and. um. And I. I mean, I remember very distinctly. the moment of of it sinking in about. what it would mean. for this to come out and impact my. family. You know, so I had younger.

brother in college. My dad's upstanding. doctor in the community. You know, my my. mom is um has her own world too and my. stepmom and. um. And so. that and the and the kind of shame and. knowing that I had I had felt very. responsible in that point too. uh because I knew I had. talked about things that. um. it was expected I would not have talked.

about them. So. Yeah. The media attention, there's. paparazzi outside at all times. Like. what were you doing every day? Like were. you going stir crazy? Oh, yeah. I mean, it was I was Well, first I was obsessed with the case. Um I. think too just just to paint a little. bit of a landscape of what the media. you know, what the media life was like. because we have a sense of how things. are today with the um. how how we could get inundated with a.

story online with social media. Now. there eight bajillion outlets, but. what it meant back then was the story. was actually instead of a a story having. legs for a week, which is considered a. long time in today's world. I mean it. was a year, you know, it was a year of. coverage. In the first 10 days of the. investigation, the Washington Post alone. had published 127 articles. So that's. like 12 articles a day.

on just this story. So it was and that. was. one news outlet and this was global. Can. you explain. initially, once this all broke, how. right off the bat was the media. portraying you? Oh, I think for 5. seconds it was sympathetic. And. maybe after about a week, once the White. House got in gear, um.

I was I I was very quickly painted as a. um a stalker, um a [ __ ] uh mentally unstable, a. bimbo, um. both the pursuer. in this and also not attractive enough. to to be pursued. Um. and and really there was a a creation of.

a version of me that I didn't recognize. and my friends and family didn't. recognize. Um and that's that's what. happens when you have a power imbalance. in. a story a story where media is um. so integral to to it unfolding. I can't. imagine the feeling of like for a second. being like, well, that's yeah, I guess. that's what hap- Oh my god, we That. That's not me. How are they How are they. Why are they calling me a [ __ ] Why are.

they calling me a [ __ ] How am I the. pursuer? Like I. What? Can you explain how your the. name-calling and the slut-shaming slowly. started to chip away at the. way you felt about yourself? Yeah. Well, I I think um. I can't say this for. you know, for everybody who. gets involved in. a relationship with um. someone who's I'm trying to think of the.

right way to say it, but it's like I. think. not everybody who has an affair feels. this way, but I think a lot of people, especially young women, who get involved. in affairs um it already starts with a. lack of self-esteem and self-worth. So, I already had issues. It was this um I. It's kind of your worst nightmare of. like all the all the worst things that. you think about yourself and say to. yourself, you then start to have. reflected and amplified by the whole. world. Um and so it was If it hadn't.

been for my family continuing to remind. me of of my true self, um and then. eventually when I was able to have my. friends come in, I I don't think I would. have been able to make it through. I. think there were really sort of two. parts of me. There was um both this more. damaged younger part of me who was. soaking up all the negativity and it was.

um like a tsunami and just. making a bad situation worse. And then. there was a you know. maybe a future version of me or a um. like a a higher self or whatever who who. was angry, who started to get angry. So, it was There were times that I was angry. or frustrated. I was so humiliated. Once. you got out of this isolation, essentially, I guess we could call it, right? How did.

people in your life treat you and did. you see a difference in the way that. like men versus women treated you? Like. was there a difference? I I think what. was interesting. that I I started to see. um. in the public arena. was that. it very sadly it was a lot of women who. said worse things about me than the men.

Um the men told a lot of jokes, right? So, the late night hosts um. I think when Jay Leno retired. uh some media. um boop-de-boop, whatever organization. um had done a study and. listed the top 10 targets, his top 10. targets of his late night show and I was. on that list. And so, and I was the only. person who wasn't a public figure in.

this, you know, these are um. So, it was. I think the men told the jokes, the. women sort of eviscerated me and. um and look, also let's let's recognize. that while there were so many ways that. um. I think. Bill's behavior was more reprehensible. than mine. I I did make mistakes. So, I I, you. know, um I think we see it very.

differently now and even through that. lens I still made mistakes. I still I. still did things that were wrong. I. think I've recognized and I think a lot. of women can experience too, especially. with media now. It's like. which we'll get to about the double. standard because yes, you made the. mistake, but I feel like there's also a. conversation online of just like. but the person within the marriage is. the one that truly has the right and the. is supposed to be the loyal one and I. find that we are always crucifying the.

other woman and then there's a level of. complexity of there is a power imbalance. of you are 22 and this man is 49. So. there's so much complexity of it makes. me sad for you that. women tearing you down. I get it with an. affair. I think it's a trigger point for. a lot of women. Yeah. The way that they. could identify whether they had been. cheated on by their husbands. You know. what I mean? There's everyone's coming. at it from the angle that they can. personally relate to or their fears or.

their insecurities, but the. out. break essentially from all these women. towards you in my opinion like it's. devastating because now I think. hopefully like do you feel a difference. when women talk to you about it today. versus back then? Well, I mean it was I think that it it. really was the younger generation. When. when I wrote my first person essay for. Vanity Fair in 2014, it was you know, your generation and the younger.

generations that really insisted on. re-evaluating this story because you. were all coming to it with just the. facts, not having gone through the. brainwashing or lived through that media. lens and bringing different perspectives. that happened throughout generations, right? Um from generations and so it was. really interesting to have this front. row seat to observe in the very. beginning of the article coming out. It.

was sort of the same voices saying the. same thing. Oh, you know, go away. You. had your 15 minutes and then it was the. younger generation, the younger. journalists, the younger women. journalists who were starting to say. hold up. You know, all the things that that you. just said about the power differentials. on. both from age and within the resources, resources of both money and power, and. um. kind of I don't know, people who work.

for you who are able to disseminate. information. I had to, you know, hire. lawyers. I'd never done any of those. things. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by the. original Peacock film Bridget Jones: Mad. About the Boy. You heard that right, Daddy Gang. Our girl Bridget is back for. one last chapter. Renée Zellweger. returns to her role as the iconic. rom-com heroine that defined a genre. Now juggling two kids, going back to.

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streaming only on Peacock. The White House basically left you out. to dry after the president made a public. statement claiming he never had sexual. relations with you. How did you feel. having to watch that and hear him say. that? You know, in the moment. I was. split. I felt so guilty. Um.

I felt so guilty for everything. I I felt like this having become public. was my fault. That I had because I had. confided in Linda. And so if I had not. confided in her, I felt as if this wouldn't have become. public. And um. so there was an enormous amount of. guilt. I didn't want him to lose his. job. So there was a part of me that felt. good. Deny it. This is what you should.

do. You know, that sort of a thing. And then there was a part of me that um. was so humiliated. And um to kind of have the most powerful. man in the world saying that um. you know, basically you're damaged. goods. Like is. it it not something not something you. want as a 51-year-old woman and not. something you want as a 24-year-old. woman. The White House like you. referenced earlier tried to frame you as.

this like unstable stalker. But what the. evidence then went on to reveal was the. president called you often, gave you. gifts. How did you. at the end of the day during all this. reconcile what people were saying about. your relationship and then what you. knew to be true and what you lived with. this person? It was well, it was. gaslighting, you know, so I um. you know, I I I think that was what I.

experienced on. um on a pretty large scale. And it was. uh. it was devastating, you know, it was. devastating at the time and I think what. you know, what we see now in today's. world and as as a. grown woman, I hate to break it to any. 24-year-olds listening to this because I. know from 21 to 20 like 25 you think you.

know everything. You're like, I'm a. [ __ ] adult now. I know everything. I'm so sorry to tell you, you will look. back on this time and you'll be like, "Oh, little 20-year-old me.". You Yeah, no. So, I. you know, I. thought it was something it wasn't. And. um I my feelings were real. Uh. and. it um.

it was. very frustrating and painful. um. to. to have people talking about this. um in a way that was untrue. In the. midst of all this, we're talking about. how you're reading things online about. yourself, you're watching the news, they're calling you a [ __ ] and they're. slut-shaming you, and they're calling. you unstable and mentally unstable, and.

you're you're seeing all of this. Did. you ever have a moment during all of. this where you. started to doubt yourself, and you. started to feel like you were going a. little crazy? Oh, 100%. I think that there were um. it you know. I I. right? That's the whole the whole goal. of gaslighting, right? So, I mean, I. don't think the White House's intention. was to gaslight me. I think the. intention was to stay in power and to. get out of legal jeopardy. But,

that's, you know, I I think that is the core of being. gaslit is you do start to doubt. yourself. I also think what I want to. get into talking about, too, is like as. a young. person when you're going through. something traumatic, your understanding of it in the moment. is that, and then you're also somewhat. in fight or flight, and you're like. trying to digest it in any capacity you. can. And then as time goes on, you're.

able to, with time in a beautiful way, start to actually look at it a little. bit more objectively as time goes on. because you're farther away from it. So, I can imagine like the way that you felt. about it in the moment, you now have. different perspectives, and that's okay. And I think there's like a lot of shame. of people who go through these traumatic. moments in their life where they're. people are like, "Well, how did you feel. in that exact moment?" You're like, "I. don't know. I need to process it. I need. I need time to think." And I can imagine. people asking you questions, paparazzi. being outside. It's like. Oh, yeah. being up on a stand. It's like.

you didn't you knew the truth, but you. also had to protect your like mental. sanity of like, "I need time to heal and. to digest the fact that I thought I was. in this relationship. Now it's out to. the world. What is happening? Like it's a lot. Yeah. Um. what was your rock bottom moment in all. of this? Oh my gosh, there were many. Um. it's interesting. in the moment the. the rock bottom moment was probably.

um. it was several months into the. investigation. And. I I guess whatever the layering of. whatever had come out in the news that. day, whatever it was, I it was just too. much. And I I had remembered thinking, "Okay, I I was able to. the first 2 weeks of the investigation, I didn't have a therapist. I couldn't go. on medication. Um and eventually I was able to get a.

therapist who had to be a forensic. psychologist, who was amazing, Dr. Susan. Um I'm still grateful to her. today. And. um. I remember thinking, like, "Okay, I'm. going to call her. And if she answers, then I'm staying and if she doesn't, I'm. out. Um so I think for me that was rock. bottom. And and that that again just kind of um. this the the the maelstrom of of media.

and 24-hour news and the internet, you. know, this a this the report coming out. was the first time that you missed. history being made if you didn't have. access to the internet. Like Google had. just launched. Web traffic doubled overnight. Like it's. just this is those are the kinds of. things that we just can't even fathom. now, right? I mean and and this was all. pre-social media, but you know, all the. news outlets had um had.

like www representation and comment. sections and um things like that. So. that was. you know, that was a moment where I think I don't. Sorry, I'm babbling. No, you're doing. great. you know, I don't know if you ever had. anything like this when you were growing. up, but I had a couple of different. moments in grade school where it was. like. I I did something embarrassing and that. that feeling of like I don't want to go. to school. The whole class knows, the.

whole grade knows. Everybody's going to. this and that and so that's one level of. what we experience or if I'm at a dinner. party and I knock over, I don't drink. anymore, but if I knocked over a glass. of red wine on the white tablecloth, you. know, you're you're mortified in front. of this group and you you you're able to. draw a mental perimeter around that. And. what I experienced and now what why I. care so much about anti-bullying with. young people because I understand what.

this is online and with social media, there is no border. And you literally it. literally feels like the entire world is. laughing at you. And it is devastating. I appreciate. explaining it like that cuz I never. thought about it like when you're in. that restaurant and you spill the wine, you go home that night and you envision. those exact faces at that table. And. you're like, "Oh my god, I hope they. forget this. I hope that like but you. have a visual." Right. And what you're.

describing. if anything, yeah, you have like the. most real horrific. lived experience of what now. so many kids are living online, which is. this like unseen. beast out there that is talking about. you, that is taunting you, that is. speaking about you and they've never met. you. They don't know you, they don't. know your character, they're just taking. what they've seen glimpses online. Like. didn't they even just like use your. passport photo when they.

god, my work passport photo. Jesus, it. was the worst. all manipulated. Right, like who wants a. passport photo? But it's all but that's. so media of to train someone to believe. something about yourself. In those rock bottom moments that you. just shared with me, like. having the weight of truly the world on. you of people talking about you. and you were contemplating, is it easier. to just. not be here? What kept you going?

I I call them moments of grace. And so, I think if you have that moment of grace. and the. I don't know that beauty is the right. word, but beauty of having one moment of. grace is that somewhere lodged in the. back of your mind. will always be that experience of having. had that grace. You get through the. moment and. things get better. It doesn't always. just continue better and better for the. rest of your life, but once you've, you. know, and that's it's especially why I.

worry so much about young people because. they haven't had enough life experience. to like now at 51 when something you. know bad happens and feels devastating I. have a whole folder of times that I've. had [ __ ] up thing happen I'm. devastated da da da whatever it is and. then it got better. You know and now I I. panic even less and less which is. amazing. I'm so grateful for that. Um so.

yeah don't don't let young people. listening don't let anybody tell you it. is not great to get older because your. 50s are [ __ ] amazing. Yeah. You have a long long time to get. there girl but it's amazing to feel so. comfortable with yourself. Right. And to know what to expect know. how you react know what upsets you know. what you can get through like your. threshold you start to learn more and. more. wait I think you I think really and and. maybe women of older generations weren't.

able to do this but at least how I feel. is. I've I know the operating manual to me. You know and that is that is one of the. most empowering things I think anybody. can have but especially a woman. It is. so heartbreaking because you weren't the. only one that participated in this. relationship and yet you were the one. who. objectively took the hardest hit. Yeah. Did you ever enter.

the anger stage where you were like [ __ ]. this? Yeah. It It um it took me a really long. time. um and. like I was not until 2010. 10. so this 1998 to 2010 there were I was I. would have moments of of being angry but. it. I didn't realize how much I had lost. until I came out of graduate school.

and I couldn't get a job. And that. and and also I think at the point where. I was because I was. um in my early 30s. So now all of my. friends have gotten married. Most of. them have kids. Some of them are even. like going on to their second marriages, you know, second and third kids. And I'm. still I have nothing, you know, or that. feeling of nothing. And um. you know, it's.

it very much was. um. that was the point when I realized how. much had been taken from me. To also be. fair, and I think that's like a very. normal. answer that anyone who has experienced a. form of trauma would be like, there's. the. I'm not going to say like dissociating, but in some capacity you have to. dissociate to keep moving. And then one. day it just kind of hits you of your. reality cuz you've gone through enough.

to get yourself back on your feet. And. like you said, you graduate and then. you're like, "Okay, I'm going to go get. a job. This is normal." And then it's. like, "No, you can't get a job." When. you say that though, Monica, like. what do you mean? Like people were. literally turning you down in job. interviews? oh yeah. I mean, it was it was. everything from. I I wasn't even allowed to go interview. certain places. Like a place would say, "No, we don't you can't even come. interview." Even though I was qualified.

to um because it was 2007 when I was job. hunting. I um. was and and then. um Hillary was running in 2008. So there. was this high likelihood that she would. become president or you know, or or. could get the nomination. So I think at. that point she was expected to to get. the nomination, but of course Barack. Obama did. So. at this period of time when I am job. hunting, people were saying, "Well, could you get a letter of indemnity" I.

can never say this. I had Bell's palsy a. few years ago, so sometimes Yeah, so. sometimes some words are still a little. hard for me, but indemnity Ask me if I. could get a letter of indemnification. if they hired me cuz they relied on. grants. And so they were worried that. they would lose all their funding. Um so it was. it it was There were a couple places. that um. you know, were interested to hire me, but would be like, "Well, you'd be.

interacting with the media." So I mean, it's just. you know. Was there ever a point that you Not that. you should, but was there ever point. that you or anyone in your family. thought of changing your name or your. last name at all? Yeah, I mean, I think. that there. there was definitely a period of time. that. I contemplated it, except given the. world we lived in,

I couldn't even see a reality of that, right? Like, how is that really going to. work, right? I'm going to walk down the. street in LA where I was raised and run. into someone and they'll say Monica and. I'll you know, "Oh, my name is Rebecca. now." I mean, like it just I didn't even. know how that would how that would work. Or people had suggested to me, "Well, you could put a different name on your. CV." And I thought about that, but then. you know, when you play that forward, you just. So what? I'm going to walk into a a job.

interview, the person in their head is. like, "Hmm, that girl looks a lot like. Monica Lewinsky." And you know, and. they're looking at me and I'm looking at. them and you know, it's just And then. you're also starting out. you know, it's sort of like part of why. I haven't online dated is that that. whole thing of if you if you, you know, don't want to use your name, you're. you're starting something out with a. lie, you know? so that doesn't that. doesn't totally feel right to me either. So, I but but really more than just the. practicality, I think as time went on.

I I also came to feel very strongly that. I didn't want to change my name. Why. should I have to change my name? You. know, I I bet nobody has asked Bill if. he needed, you know, did he ever think. about changing his Okay, I get I get. because he was most famous in the world. at the moment but like and president. etc. But just even the idea would never. cross someone's mind to a man, you know, and and also too I'm.

you know, I regret a lot of. different decisions I've made both prior. to '98, post '98, like I'm a human being. but I'm not ashamed of who I am. And so. I think that that that was a really im-. important. important thing. And I and I hope you know in me asking. that like I don't. don't think you should change your name. but I hearing what you went through I. understand like there there may be. people around you being like Monica like. to get a job maybe change last name like.

that is I I interviewed Amanda Knox at. one point, right? And it's like there is. this horrible reality that you have to. which we're going to get to eventually. of like you have to decide how you're. going to live your life and you can't. just keep letting other people dictate. it even though it's pretty [ __ ] hard. because you're saying I'm walking in. places and no one will hire me and it's. like. because like it's like if in the grand. scheme. Mhm. how are you not getting a [ __ ]. job? You know what I mean? Like you're.

qualified and I I was really I was I was. so lucky that I came from an upper. middle class family that could help. support me because I couldn't earn an. income but you really, you know, when. you're sitting inside. a scandal like this, you really come to. understand why a lot of times women make. the choices they do because those are. the only [ __ ] options they have. Is. to maybe pose nude in a magazine because. you will get money and you can pay rent.

and put food on the table. You know, and. so it's um It's a great point. It is it you really come to understand. choices people make and how hard it can. be. I I often think about that we don't. examine and judge people by the things. they don't do or the things they turn. down, you know? So. So true. I mean, yeah. To add. color for my audience, I just want to. like.

read this. You were 22 years old. He was 49. You were an intern. He was the president of the United. States. There is a clear power imbalance that. they never focused on in the media when. all this was coming out. How aware were. you of this power imbalance? I don't think that was something we. talked about, Mhm. you know, very much back then in.

the same way that we didn't have words. like slut-shaming and fat-shaming, you. know, um. I think the. this story became it it felt very. bifurcated. It was like most Democrats, whether they believed him or not, were. supportive. Most Republicans, whether. they you know, were opposed and. um.

it's uh. that wasn't something that we talked. about a lot and I think that it was. really in the wake of. um. Me Too 2.0 that we really started to. look at power imbalances under the. umbrella of abuse of power. Yeah. In 2014 you said the relationship. was consensual. In 2018 you said you. were just reevaluating how power. dynamics impact consent. Now today, where do you stand? Call Her Daddy is. brought to you by Tinder. Dating app.

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In 2014 you said the relationship was. consensual. In 2018 you said you were. just reevaluating how power dynamics. impact consent. Now today, where do you. stand? I um you know, I it's really still I I. kind of landed in the place that I. landed in 2018, which was this which was. this sense of I'm very clear this was. not sexual assault um and therefore. there's a level of consensuality that.

was there and at the same time because. of the power dynamics and the and the. power differential, I never should have. [ __ ] been in that position. And so. that's where you just can't even I think. that you can't even understand what. you're walking into. And that's where. it's the responsibility of the person. with more power. And that power can be. age, it can be their job, it can be. their financial resources, it can there. could be a myriad.

reasons that they have that the tilt. towards the power that way. No, and I appreciate you saying that. because. the reality is when you're even when I'm. going back and reading these headlines, it's like. the chaos of like. that people believed, even the people. writing it that like you were this. person coming like he's the president of. the United [ __ ] States. Like. their secret service. Like you can't. just. through the halls and you're like going.

after him. Like It's like. Like it doesn't work that way. what I mean? And it's so that again, Monica, and why I appreciate you talking. with me about this is. I see it every day still in media in. different corners of social media even. where a woman is being pinned as. something. And when you are a woman. that's had any form of what you're. discussing and what I'm discussing of. the [ __ ] shaming or the judgment or the. double standard, it's so obvious as a. woman where I'm like There's just no.

[ __ ] what like hold on. Hold on. He's. the president and she's a and I think in. a gorgeous way, I hope that we're making. some progress. I think we have. I think I I think I. don't so. I don't know that it would be as. different as people think it would be if. it was, you know, with a. young charismatic Democratic president. Um. But I think we have I think we have made.

some strides. Just even in in the fact. that we have um language, you know, that. we now have nomenclature for these kinds. of things that allow for more nuanced. conversations. That's a good point. When you look back. once the news broke and how everything. was handled by media and the White. House, how do you think it should have been. handled? Have you thought about that? gosh. Um. I I think that.

I think that. he should have said. um. I'm like now thinking this through. I. don't think I've answered this question. before. Um. but good question. I haven't been asked. that before. So. uh. I think that the right way to handle. a situation like that would have been to. probably say it was you know, nobody's. business and to resign, you know, or to.

find a way to find a way of staying in. office that was. not lying and not. throwing a young person who is just. starting out in the world under the bus. and at the same time I'm hearing myself. say that and it's like. okay, but we're we're also talking about. the. the most powerful office in the world, you know, so I don't I don't I don't.

want to be naive either. I you know, but. I. love that answer cuz you're being. honest. You're like as a human being if. we take a step back that I agree with. you. That is exactly how it should have. been handled. It's the least they could. have done for you, right? And not even for you, just for like. for anybody. Right. It was the truth, right? But then we're talking about the White. House and I I this is where. it gets complicated because like at what. cost are you just kind of thrown to the.

wolves to protect something larger? I I don't know. It's It's. complicated, you know? It's really. complicated because you're you are. talking about issues and and situations. where so many people are impacted, you. know? So I I don't. you know, and maybe this is a reflection. of my generation or my age, but I don't. I don't know where the right I don't. know where the right balance is, you. know? Because there's there's there was.

damage no matter what. I think there was. so much collateral damage for women of. of my generation to watch a young woman. to be pilloried on the world stage, to. be torn apart, you know, for my. sexuality, for my mistakes, for my. everything. What you're saying though is. I hear what you're saying. It's like. this was such a large. statement to the world about the way.

I and I get what you're saying at the. time there wasn't this language, but the. double standard here's the [ __ ]. example right here. Yeah. Right what. we're talking about. Look what came from. all of this for you Mhm. and for then. the other party. It's just It's not. were just nowhere, you know, I I lost my. future. So I mean that was um. that that really was. I I.

was lucky enough to hold on to. a strand of my true self. Yeah. Um but I lost my future. And so. I'm. so grateful for how my life has changed. in the last 10 years. Yeah. Um. but. it it wasn't um. that certainly was not a given, you. know. You made. many public apologies. Have you ever. received one in return? I have had a.

handful of people who were involved at. the time um. that I've run into in different ways who. have acknowledged that they wish they. had made different choices. None of the. people who were. you know, sort of the above the fold. names involved in the investigation. And. I'm really grateful that I'm at a place. where I don't need it anymore. Was there. ever a time where you felt like you did?

Oh, sure. Yeah. Oh, sure. Well, I think. that's you know, and that this is sort. of something I don't I don't know that I. fully unpacked it yet for myself, you. know, I I think um a lot of times with. the writing I do, it's like I have an. idea for something and I sort of plant. the seed and just let it I'm like, okay, and some version of me it's figuring. it's like figuring itself out to worm it. its way out onto onto a page. But I. think that a lot of that has to do with.

this um. the intersection of as my life changed, as people saw me more and more as my. true self, as I was able to have more. agency um that those things became less. important because I was been able to. even though. I will always be defined in some way by. my history I am also. defined by my present. And that's. it's important. because I can imagine like the way that.

you're talking about. being isolated and being trapped and not. being able to speak to people for eight. months and the emotional trauma that can. do to a human being like you said, you. weren't prepared for any of this and it. hit you in the face and you had to just. run with it because you had no other. option to survive. Right. And then you come out of this, and it's. like how many times did you think like, "Wow, this There is a potential this. will stay with me for the rest of my.

life." Well, I had a whole I call it my. dark decade. I mean, it was a whole. period of. floundering and having no purpose. I. mean, I've always lucky. My family's. always been amazing. Yeah. I've always had friends, thank God. You. stepped away for about 10 years. my. the time. Yeah. Did you date at all? Yeah. Okay. So, I I have always dated, not very like. not always successfully dated.

Yeah. Um and I was somebody who had wanted to. get married and have kids, and um I'm. sort of past that point of having kids. naturally. Um so, that. I think that was a focus for a long. time, but it was definitely um. my you know, my dating. life has has been um complicated, I. think at times, you know.

In. dating, when you were. trying to get back to some form of. normalcy, like did you find in moments. that like men. were kind of in it for the wrong reason? I've had a couple instances like that. I. mean, it's sort of this wide. spectrum of. I think my. [ __ ] detector for someone who was. there for the wrong reason was has been.

pretty strong, luckily. Um but then there have been. you know, there's a wide spectrum of. like. how intimacy. goes after something like this and it's. you know, it's like. I mean thankfully no one's ever asked me. to wear a beret in the bedroom, but you. know, I mean there there are then. you know, it it's complicated. Look, I. think. I think our comfort level and and it.

might be generational, but I think. comfort level of. um. really feeling like you can own your own. sexuality fully. um. is. can be one layer that many of us go. through when you add on. the way I was sexualized and humiliated. around sex um. you know, it it makes it more.

complicated, you know, so I appreciate. you sharing that though because like I. couldn't help but think you know. there was this massive focus on your sex. life in your 20s and I've even talked. about it in the beginning days of my. show. It was way more sexual and it was. fun, but then I would go on dates and I. was like. wait, no, like I think you have the. wrong idea. one part of me and that's one part of me. it's funny because what what's what was.

amazing to me I always think about. coming and sit and sitting down with you. and it was like, oh, you know, thanks to. your I think it was episode three and. like you took the mantle of [ __ ]. queen. I cannot thank you enough. Oh my god, I forgot. about it. Oh my god. I forgot about it. The glug glug 9000 girl. Um. So I'm obsessed that you just said that, but that in itself is like there's the. reclaiming of as women to be like I'm.

going to own it first before you can own. it, but then. you talking about you know, being [ __ ]. shamed. Like how did you start to trust. people again? Like getting into a. relationship with a man or going into a. bedroom with a man that you think you. trust? It's um. you know, I think that those. uh I think that the first. the first handful of years I was very. self-conscious.

um because of how I'd been sexualized. and. and because as talking before of of. having. the most powerful man, you know, wag their finger and say I didn't have. sex with that woman and. um. it George Lakoff like wrote this essay. where he was talking about how I I wrote. about this a little in one of my. articles, but um. how we see because we haven't had a. [ __ ] woman president yet, but we see.

we see the male president as a father. figure. This idea of the father of the. country saying, you know, and so I had concerns about. that and I think that they're. again as as because of my own. self-esteem issues already, I think that. it um it impacted things and. um. I don't drink anymore. I mean, I have. champagne on like rare I'm not I'm not.

sober. I just don't drink. So, I'm you. know, but I think that helped for a. while and then. you know, I mean, I joke now like if I. were still drinking, I'd probably have a. lot more sex, but you know, because the. sort of the moment in the night, you. know, the moment in the night was like. or I should say more casual sex, but. that moment in the night where you're. sort of. going to like lean into this this thing. like you just start you start to get. more self-conscious, you know. And you start to get more self-conscious.

and then you get in your head, and I get. what you're saying. Like, having a glass. of wine, it relaxes you, but I I see. what you're saying. It's like. this is this again the smaller version. of what you experienced when I think so. many women can relate to, whether it's. middle school or high school or college, and. a guy runs around saying something about. a hookup with you, whether it was. true or a lie. I've had that happen to. me, where you're like, "That's not true." Like, and you're so. embarrassed. Yeah. And.

a lot of those moments, like, I then. would like replay my exchanges with that. person. And I don't know if you had. this, where you're like, self-consciously. being. made fun of, so then you're like, "Well, what did I. Like, do you know what do you know Do I. make sense a little bit here?" You're. just like replaying, like, "What did I. do? And what was I like?" And as a. woman, like, so much of our worth people put on us is. our sexuality. So, then to be publicly.

put down, you're like, "Oh my god." And. as a 24-year-old woman, then it's like, "What am I worth?" And of course you're. worth everything more than that, but at. the time, your self-worth is like. I had I had had a lot of um. I had had. some sexual trauma from when I was. younger that, you know, we didn't even. have again, didn't have language for the. kinds of things that you know, that. happened. And so, you you don't even. know that you're acting out. You know, you don't even know you can't. even piece those things together. So,

it's um it it is but I, you know, I've. also been. really lucky in. I haven't been super successful at a, you know, at a relationship. I haven't. been successful at all at a relationship. that goes the full distance. Um. but I have been really lucky and dated. some amazing men. And and those. those men, each in their own way. have helped helped me find a piece of.

myself again, you know? Shame. Ugh. Can. we talk about that for all the young. women listening? Yeah. You have. tackled it head-on, quite literally, and. it is something that I think every woman. in our lifetime, we experience it in a. way that men just will not understand. Can you talk a little bit, if you have. any advice on how to overcome shame as a. woman, when someone is putting you down,

again, sexually, um for not being. enough, um whatever it be? Um I guess my brain's going in a few. places, but I guess the kind of good. news and bad news is the good news is. that. those moments will dissipate, like that. shame spear that that stabs you, that. wound will heal. The bad news is that. we.

we like keep dealing with shame in in. different ways throughout life. Yeah. Um and I think for me, the the. thing that is. I think of it shame almost being like a. um bacteria in a petri dish, that it's. like when you put it into this petri. dish and it's all by itself, it just. grows, but it's still alone. And that's. the thing to know the most is that. almost everything anybody might feel. shame about, somebody else is feeling.

the same thing. Like it is not it. doesn't necessarily mean there's you're. not going to feel some shame, but for it. to lessen a bit, Yeah. um in some ways, and it it is. I wish I wish wish wish, you know, we. get to a place in our world where. women can just sort of like shirk the. shame, you know, and just you can't even. be shamed. Yeah. Because that's what we.

see with some men in the world. who are shameless. And that's. it's complicated. It is it's something I. still deal with. Mhm. You know, so less. and less. I want to just kind of. conclude on the double standards. Any. advice for women when it comes to. navigating double standards and how we. are treated versus men. I can only. imagine the amount of women listening. that have a workplace dynamic with a. boss or a relationship or like you said.

some a financial situation. Like do you. have any advice? I don't know how. successful I have been in trying to. navigate the double standards. I think. in some ways my own reclaiming is um. trying to has been trying to open a path. or a continue a path um that not a lot. of women have been able to go through. before which is to be a fallen woman and. to rise. And so.

letting many other women know. it doesn't I'm not the one to say this. This is like a well-known quote of just, you know, it doesn't matter how many. times you fall down. It matters how many. you get up. And so I think that's that's. the most important thing. So I'm sorry I. don't have a better answer for you on. that. Monica It's. like the most honest answer you can give. because I have sat with so many people. I literally call my mom about it in. moments where I'm frustrated if I see. something online or in my real personal.

life. Like I grapple with it constantly. because I start conversations like this. Like what do we do Monica? Like you. experience something on the biggest. platform in the world. How do we change. this because as much as I would like to. say it wouldn't happen to another woman. again. I do think it could happen to. another woman again looking at like. what's going on in our world and so I do. think the reality as. upsetting as it is is to say is like I. don't think there is a solution yet.

Yeah. But but we're working you know and. and I think the thing that is so. important about change and it's one of. the things I I admire about you and I'm. so excited for you and grateful to you. is that you are you are pushing forward. in a path in in business and podcast as. a young woman. right up there right up there with these. men who are you know who are valuing. what their contribution is in their.

podcast and they're being. they're having that reflected to them. and what they've sold them for and you. have done that Alex. Like I hope you. take that in every day because of you. other women are going to be able to have. successful podcasts. that they then move on to other places. for for. I can't. mean? No, I can't first of all I can't. thank you enough for saying that but I. hope you know I feel the same way about. you. The fact that you have chosen to.

sit here and continue to sit in front of. cameras and speak about your experience. it like makes me emotional. It's like. there are so many women that look at you. and it's like if she can get through. that then I can get through this and I. it's not that it should be your job to. make people feel more seen and more. hopeful but it is so incredible that you. haven't given up and that you didn't. just go away and just decide to like. pull back. Like you kept your [ __ ].

name Monica Lewinsky and you're not. going anywhere and that's why I'm so. excited for you. Podcasting is. so incredible. It's so hard. but it's so impressive. So much harder. than I thought. Everyone will give you. grace in the fact that you are going on. to this new venture. Okay. I am so excited for you. I am. going to give you my personal number and. I'm here Okay. Thank you. any advice. Okay. Okay, last question. Okay. If you could go back. Yeah. and talk to your 22-year-old self,

Mhm. what would you tell her? Do not go to Washington. Monica. Thank you so much for coming on Call Her. Daddy. Thank you, Alex. This was so lovely.