Jackson White: Toxicity and Tell Me Lies

What is up, Daddy gang? It is your. founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call. Her Daddy. >> Jackson White, welcome to Caller Daddy. >> Thank you. >> How are you doing? >> I'm [laughter]. as if we haven't like asked that. question like nine times before we. started this. >> Yeah. Yeah. We've been like hanging out. for a second before we started. recording, guys. Um, >> was I the most high maintenance? You're. not high maintenance. No, no, no. I'm.

just dealing with a lot right now. emotionally because I just watched the. finale last night. >> Oh, that kind of. >> And so like I'm. >> I'm just trying to process like you as. you and all the girls came up and. they're like, "Oh, he's like really. charming and he's like really nice and. then like watching Steven last night.". >> I know. >> And so it's like a little bit of a mind. [ __ ] to be sitting here with Steven. Demarco being like, "Should I be scared? Like what's the vibe?" Do people come up. to you on the street and call you Steven. or Jackson? They all the time. It's. mostly Steven.

>> How do you feel about it? >> I'm excited for it to be not to get to. the phase where it's your name. It's a. great honor to be a a a great character. But I'm super stoked for my own name to. be said. But now I'm Ste Yeah. >> Jackson represent one day. But it's. cool. I'm Stephen now. I'm Steven. Um, when I think about Stephen, I feel like. he's kind of the antithesis of the. America sweetheart, you know?

>> Can you kind of just try to explain to. us what it was like playing a literal. sociopath? Like, how did you get into. that character? >> Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, it. started [sighs]. [gasps]. it started as it always just very. simply. You just try and be truthful and. enjoy the character and learn him and. then he turned into this like absolute. garbage fire of a guy. But at the. beginning it was really fun. It was like.

it was like why does he do what he does? And it was a complicated guy and a. complicated relationship and it was. really fun. And then the writers just. turned him into a he's you know he's the. worst. He's like one one step behind. like a serial killer. >> That's what I've heard. >> Like he's right there. >> He's baby serial killer. >> Yeah, he is. Um I feel like it's funny. to watch online a lot of people have. talked about how there are these like. mannerisms.

and the posture and the way he walks and. the hands in the pockets. Like is that. something that you also do in your. normal life or did you create that for. this character? So he would uh it's both. like there's a. >> Do you have good posture? >> Are you Are you scared of me? >> I'm not scared of you. I'm just It's a. rewiring of the brain. Yeah. >> Cuz I just binged it. >> Yeah. >> So I've been watching you. >> By the way, I I do have bad posture, but. it's not like.

>> I have I'm I'm a drummer. >> Okay. >> And my whole life I was like this and. then so my back. >> You got like the hunchback. >> Yeah. But I'm working on you know you go. you you work on it. I didn't go to like. theater. school and learn the the breath in the. back. I didn't do that, but I'm working. on it. So, >> what about the eye contact thing? Did. you work on that for Stephen? You kind. of like don't blink. >> Oh, that's Yeah, there's there's there's. isms in there that that that are fun.

>> How do you prep for that? Do you like. look at yourself in the mirror and do. that? >> Uh, no. That'd [laughter] be crazy. >> Or would it be like amazing? That'd be. nuts. I don't know. He's He's He has a. lot of um. things. Half are mine, half are. invented. I don't know. It's kind of a. combo of both. Uh but he's very. physical. Like he's definitely a. different physical. He's a different. walk. He has a different thing. He's.

very like calculating and still and he. moves kind of like that. >> Yes. >> Except when he's like angry and then. he'll walk different. There's like a lot. of stuff that I tried to like play with. >> We love him. >> He's a shark. He's a Do we? I don't. think so. >> No, I'm just trying to like. >> You're just trying to like make me feel. [laughter] better. Don't Don't play G. It's a lot. >> He He's a He's a Yeah, it's hard to like. that guy. >> I read that you and I don't know if you. still do this, but you used to watch. every episode of Tell Me Lies like four.

times. You could go from like hating to. then loving your performance. Did you do. that for this season? Nope. >> Why? >> Because it's got it's gone too far. >> Okay. >> I [laughter] I can't I I I don't want to. do that anymore. It hurts. It's very fun. to to study the tape. I like to learn. from that, but then it becomes. masochistic and you're like, it just. gets it's not healthy. >> Did you watch season 3? >> Uh briefly. >> Briefly.

>> Yeah. >> I don't know what that mean. What is. briefly? >> Like I'll do it's like I I watched it. once. >> Okay. with a with a far lens, [snorts]. with like a detached lens. >> You weren't like directing yourself. No. >> Like, why did you do that? What did you. do? >> But it No, but it creates a It's very. emotional to watch a lot of yourself. It. kind of sucks. Do you watch your own. >> Yeah. But I've been now doing this for a. while. Like in the beginning days, it. was harder. >> Yeah. >> But it's not fun. >> I think that happened with Stephen where. I detached him unintentionally as it.

went on. Y. >> I think I tried to bring myself into. him, but then as he became worse and. worse, I was like, "Yeah, he's a. character. >> I'll make him be a character and then I. could. >> then you can play with it more and. detach." Um I'm thinking about it being. Wednesday. Everyone just found out that. this was the series finale, not the. season finale. >> And none of us had any idea that this. was the end of Tell Me Lies. How are you.

feeling and how did you find out? >> Uh really recently few few days ago. actually. >> And who told you? >> So Grace actually told me and we were. both in the airport. We were both in the. airport in separate parts of the. airport. We're in different. >> terminals. >> Different terminals. >> So far away, >> two terminals away. It's a new love. story. And um and. I felt really really sad in initially.

even though I knew creatively that's. what was supposed to happen. That's what. the intention always was was you know. it's and it's a very perfect. We'll get into that. >> We're going to get into it if it was a. perfect ending. I do think it was. >> I think it's hilarious but it but it was. very sad. I was sad and I and because. it's like you're you made a family. The. cast was like a family and then you. you also like lost a job. You didn't.

But it also feels like a little bit like. that. and. it's been four years putting yourself. into something. So it was like mixed bag. >> So did you guys have like a conversation. with your castmates? Like are you guys. going to have like a going away party? >> Yeah. I I mean I wish I hope cuz we're. so close and everyone I think is. emotional about it even though. >> I don't know you you just can't plan for. these things. >> Okay, let's talk about the finale.

>> Okay, >> I sat down. I had snacks. I was locked. in. >> Yeah, >> I was like how are they going to wrap. this thing up. >> in this? There's so many questions like. what's going to happen with Pippa and. Bri and Wrigley and you and why are you. marrying Lydia and what that like? There's so many questions. And then she. did manage to wrap the entire thing up. >> in the finale. How did you feel about it. when you were filming it and then when. you got to watch it?

>> I laughed hysterically when I read it. >> that we all did cuz it was like, "Oh, he. he wins. That's so funny. That's so. cosmically funny." I am sorry. I think. it's a big tragic comedy at the end. >> It's so [ __ ] crazy. Yeah. I hope. everyone laughs. >> No, no, no. You don't understand. Did. you do you like look online when people. are talking about the series at all. because everyone said anymore? >> Okay. The only way that you it would get.

be a justifiable ending. Everyone was. like, >> "Stephen needs to die, >> right? >> He needs to die." And then you like kind. of won. >> That's so good. That's so funny. Not Not. even like strictly, oh, my character. Like that's [ __ ] hilarious. It's. crazy. >> Like you have the guy who's the the. object of the of the torment or the or. the the whatever the aggressor and then. it's like very it's not realistic.

because it's television, but it's a new. thing. I've never seen that done before. >> Well, it's also really realistic of like. this sometimes is how it [ __ ] goes. >> Yeah. Like probably not to that extent. >> No, hopefully not. >> Hopefully not. But. that's kind of how it goes. Like a lot. of a lot of a lot of bad people win. >> How did you feel filming the wedding. scene? That whole blow up and then you. taking the mic at 3:00 a.m. and being. like, "One more [ __ ] thing, ladies.

and gentlemen.". >> It was cool. Well, it was 3:00 a.m. It. was like 4:00 a.m. We were doing that. all night and I had the flu. I had like. 103 fe I had a fever. I was like. sweating and sore throat. and they like. juiced me up and I went out there and. and just blacked out and I just that was. crazy. I It's crazy that that happened. on that day. >> Who do you think made out the best in. the show by the end?

>> Do you want to say it together? One, two, three. Stephen like. >> [ __ ] I know. >> cuz I was like okay technically Diana. You're like Diana. Like they got she got. away. But on the RTOR scale of like who. did the worst [ __ ] that then got out the. best. Like yeah, he got rejected now. from Yale and they like got rid of him. But you got to do another one on Lucy at. the very end. That was a mind [ __ ] the. gas station moment. I was like literally. go [ __ ] yourself. >> I know. I know. It's twisted.

>> And then you're the one holding the mic. like like literally like bang bang bang. bang bang to every single person. >> He just ices everyone in the room. smoked them. I had fun. >> I don't know how I feel about it. >> Do you Are you like Yeah. Like what what. is the response to something like that? >> I think that it weirdly as I've had time. to process it now, I'm finding that. at first I couldn't decide if I wanted. it to end where you and Lucy just like.

left in the car together. >> You thought that Did you think that. that's where it was going to end? >> I thought it was going to end there. because I was like, "Oh, and he's going. to [ __ ] her over again." But then Megan. made the decision, "No, let me have you. watch one more time him [ __ ] her over. again.". >> That's the perfect ending to this show. >> because why am I so [ __ ] up that I. lowkey wanted you guys to end up. together, >> right? Right. That's the whole thing. >> You're disgusting. You murdered someone. >> I know. And that's the whole that's the. whole joke. And then and then it's a.

perfect ending. Like. >> this will never end. >> Okay. Can you indulge me for a second? >> Yeah. So I think to your credit, you brought. to life a character that. millions of people are. frustrated by. They hate. They've found. some moments where they've like loved. you or liked you and then they go back. to hating you and being disgusted. And. now the character. we're done with. But I thought today we.

could really finish it off strong and. you can get into character one last. time. >> Get into character. >> Mhm. >> Oh [snorts]. [ __ ]. >> Get your posture ready. >> Darn it. >> Yeah, right. Just my shitty posture. >> All right. >> Get You're going to get into character. as Stephen. >> and you are going I'm going to give you. scenarios from my audience and I want. you to give advice as if you are Stephen. speaking. So Stephen, welcome to Caller. Daddy.

Okay. Oh god, look at him getting into. character. [laughter]. That's what I'm doing. Okay. Um, so I'm. gonna come back and I'm going to answer. your questions now. I'm Stephen. Okay. All right. I'm I'm Stephen. I'll answer. whatever you want. Hey, how you doing? >> Hi. Can you adjust the microphone to be. closer to you? >> I think it's fine where it is. >> Sure. That will make you more. comfortable. >> That'll make me really comfortable. Thanks. This is my show. >> Sure. Okay, Stephen.

Someone wrote in and said, "I went through my boyfriend's phone. last night and saw he has an active. dating profile. Should I tell him I. know? What do I do, Stephen?". >> No, hold that in. Hold that in for a. long time. Use it when you have to. [laughter]. You weaponize it. Wait until you're in a situation where. he is in front of his parents and reveal. it and put it on a flash drive.

Wait until you're making love and at the. moment of climax. Reveal. that you know about his dating profile. >> Okay, Stephen. [laughter]. >> Sorry. >> This is great. No, this is great. Okay, next one. >> Okay, >> this is kind of really relatable to. Stephen. Okay. >> My boyfriend and I keep getting into. massive arguments, but he never takes. accountability for his actions. How can.

we move forward if he will never own up. to the things that he's done? >> Find the people around him [laughter] he. holds dear. Learn his secrets. >> It's constantly like host. >> Same thing. Hold information, put it on your computer, and then use it at a horrible time. I. think that's that's what he does. Why do. you think that he gave Lucy back the. tape? >> Maybe he was exhausted. He was like, "I. don't want to do I'm bored.". >> He's like, "Bitch, I'm going to Yale.".

>> Yeah, he's bored. >> Yeah, that's probably what it was. He. was bored. >> Yeah, he's bored. >> He was like, "You look pathetic.". >> Yeah, >> I tortured you enough. >> Yeah, he's done. >> Now I need to find another thing to tort. you over. >> It was over. >> Okay, we're moving on. Call Her Daddy is. brought to you by Tinder. Listen, you. have, you know, you've got your. emotional support water bottle, maybe. even an emotional support dog, right? And Tinder knows you have your emotional. support best friend. We all have that. one friend. Close your eyes, you can. locate her. Boom. You got it. So, if.

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prerequisite. So, having them on the. date means getting an immediate opinion. from the person who knows you the best. So, try the new Tinder Double Date. It. starts with a swipe. Download Tinder. today. Let's talk about Grace. >> Okay, let's talk about Grace. >> Let's talk about my girl. >> That That's easy for me. I can That's I. can relax. >> Well, when Grace came on here, she. talked to me about. >> how she kind of has this thing for like. kind of crazy pajamas. [gasps]. And after she then sent me the video of.

her in the said crazy pajamas, >> which video which vid you get? >> You took the video and it's her. She. kind of looks like she's in It's like a. >> This is This the one with the black. feathers. >> Oh, no. Not that one. I didn't get that. one. It was more We didn't get that one. It was more of like a jester striped. situation. >> striped situation. >> And I was wondering, have you like did. you wear anything lucky last night to. bed to prepare [laughter] for this.

interview? >> Did I wear anything lucky last night to. bed? >> More people would ask me that. I didn't. wear anything lucky. >> Okay. [laughter]. >> I wore my normal bed wear. >> Okay. What do you wear? >> Just underwear and like a I like a a. tank top when I sleep. >> Okay. >> Just a little like not the full t-shirt. thing and not or I'll rip it off and go. just underwear. Just underwear. >> And I just want to clarify like I hope I.

wasn't asking you. I wouldn't have asked. unless your girlfriend told me cuz I'm. picturing Grace wearing her full jester. outfit and then you in normal. >> Yeah. She's in a Well, she wears the cap. with the with the bell. like Scrooge. >> Yep. [laughter]. >> She looks like Scrooge. >> with the elf feet. >> Yep. With the feet and she's grumpy and. she's sitting there with it over her. breast and then I'm in nothing and and. that's how we sleep [laughter] and and. it works. >> I love that. >> It's great. Okay, so that you wore like.

a normal outfit to bed last night. I. love that. These are the hard-hitting. facts that we needed to know on Color. Daddy. >> Um, when I got to interview her a few. months ago, loved her. She's lovely. Um, she told me about how you guys met and. how you fell in love, but she said that. you were giving off very, very serious. actor energy on the initial video call. where you guys met. How do you remember. that going? Well, when you're nervous, you go into.

a mode, course. So, when you're on like a big. She had the job. I didn't have the job. So, I was in like a mode. I was in like. a hello, nice to meet you. And we do a. mode. It wasn't serious, but it was like. >> trying to get the job. >> Yeah. And then I remember what happened. She always trips up on this. She had the. job. I didn't have the job. This is a. very interesting conversation on power. And she said, "Do you need anything from. me?" which is a very like actory. question. Not to throw back on her, but. that's very like, "Do you need anything.

from me performance-wise?". And then I think I said, "No, you're. doing great. No, you're doing great." Which, if you. don't know me, I can sound very. condescending sometimes, but I do. I. mean it genuinely. I can sound very like. like, "Good job.". >> Right? And you're like, "Horrible job.". You're like, "No, really good job.". >> You know what I mean? When someone's. like, "Hey, you're doing great.". >> Right. You're like, >> and so I think I probably sound like a.

dick, but I really meant it. She was. like, "Can I do anything?" I'm like, "No, you're great.". >> So then you left that. And did you feel. any vibes? >> Romantic vibes. >> Um, no. We were pretty we were we were. walled up. We were walled up. >> Um, she was Yeah, she from the very. initial time we were both like in. relationships. We were like. >> Okay. >> It was not like that. But I think it was. it wasn't until everyone was open and we. might do this job together. That's when. we started, you know.

>> What do you remember about the first. time you started to have like, oh my. god, wait, could I have romantic. feelings for this person? >> When she texted me, >> what did she text you? >> Like, hey, like what's up? I was like, I. was I was in I was in Canada for some. reason and she said uh it was like, you. know, hey, come to New York. She didn't. say like come to New York, but she was. like, "What are you doing? I'm doing. this for the holiday." She was like, "Oh." I was like, "I might come to New. York." And she was like.

something like cool and sexy where she. was like, "You should like you [ __ ]. should like with a [ __ ] You should. [ __ ] do it." Or something like that. >> And you guys were already filming Tell. Me Lies at. >> No, no, no, no. I had I still hadn't had. the job. It took me eight months to get. this job. I had to convince so many. people to let me do this job. >> It was very funny. >> What do you think? >> Um. >> cuz you're so good at the role. Well, thanks. No, no, I I I um they just had. to comb the earth, I guess, to find. this. It's a very complicated guy and.

there was like a lot of dudes who. >> did it, you know, whatever. Whatever. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And then. >> she had the job, I didn't have the job, and then I went to New York. and we kind of like talked about all the. reasons why we shouldn't. >> do it cuz I don't have the job yet. And. then. >> Okay. Sweet. I remember though, you said. that you were dying to make the first. move, but didn't have the courage to go. through with it. What was going on? What. do you remember feeling in that moment?

>> Just like. ripping out of your chest kind of thing. You know that thing. >> And when she finally went in for the. kiss. >> Maybe that's a power thing. Like I. didn't want Sorry to interrupt. >> No, this is good. I didn't want to make. a move because I didn't have the. that's not really it. But I can totally be a people pleaser. I. can totally think I'm overstepping.

Maybe I wanted to. not step on anyone's toes. >> What do you mean? >> [laughter]. >> Well, like. like what if I didn't have the role and. then I kissed her. >> And then she was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Now you're definitely. not getting the role." You know what I. mean? >> Right. Right. >> Like, what if I overstepped? >> So, she kind of had to make the first. move. And she.

>> Yeah. I was like, and that's not These. thoughts aren't going through my head, but I'm definitely. >> Right. We're reflecting. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Mhm. That's interesting. >> You're probably like, some. subconsciously I'm probably like, >> tread lightly. >> Yeah. You like her, but don't. >> Right. Because it was a work dynamic. also. Yeah. >> And that's how it first started. So it's. like you kind of gota. >> She was my boss. >> She was your boss. >> She was my daddy. >> Is she still your daddy? >> She was my She's my daddy. Grace is my. daddy. >> I love that for Grace so much. Honestly,

you're like, I can't believe I just said. that. >> Yeah, that's going to I know where that. that's going to be on your thing. >> Just that. >> it's going to be. >> that's the whole promo. >> Yeah. >> Grace is my daddy. >> I know. It's perfect. >> I know what you want. >> Yeah. Just keep giving it. You're doing. great. Okay. Is it true that you let. Grace give you multiple tattoos early on. in the relationship? >> Yes. >> How like what tattoos and how many? >> Um, one, two, three, four. >> Now, walk me through that thought.

process of like allowing someone really. early on in dating to like fully tattoo. your bod. Were you nervous? It's like, what if it ends? >> Have you ever done that? >> Nope. >> Okay. I just [laughter] have done it, right? I'm like, nope. >> Yeah. You let someone [ __ ] put a. needle in your No. Okay. Um I don't. think you don't think about the You. don't think about that. I don't think. about a lot of I'm very impulsive, but. that was also hilarious. I like I liked. it. >> Um I liked I I like that. Yeah. I don't.

know. You're You're on the adrenaline of. the courtship phase plus like pain. And I was down. That was cool. >> How do you think that your guys. relationship has evolved over the course. of the show? >> It's just gotten more adult. I don't. know. It's more like. you don't think this the ceiling's going. to cave in. You know what I mean? You're. not like. I don't know. You start with a lot of.

fear in any relationship and then. you kind of. get comfortable. and. I think we've just grown up. >> Would you say you start with a lot of. fear in the beginning of relationships? >> Or maybe I do. >> I was going to say, what do you mean by. that? >> I think normal people don't as much. I'm. in a lot of fear. Why? >> Cuz I just grew up in fear. I grew up in.

a lot of inconsistency. So, I didn't. know what was going on a lot of the. time. And so, I. come at situations. uh from a fearful place sometimes. I'm. getting better. It it gets better and. better over the last 10 years, but I. absolutely go into things. >> on the defense. thinking that it's not going to work. out. That's how I approach.

most things. >> That kind of relates to you said. recently in an interview that it's. higher stakes to stay together for me. than to break up. >> It's definitely more work and higher. stakes to be with somebody. >> Yeah. Um, it's it's way less pressure to to to not. more painful, but you have to like you. have to want to be with somebody very. very hard, right? >> Yes. Like do would you say if when you. look back at your past, were you more.

comfortable and relaxed. being single cuz you're on your own and. you're just dependent on yourself or do. you like being kind of dependent in a. relationship? I think dependent is the. wrong word. I think it's important to. not be fully dependent. You can be. dependent for certain things. Like I. like to be dependent for. things that she does better that I don't. do. Like she's better at so many things. And it's nice to have a partner in that. to do things that you don't do. But the.

the the dependent part. gets tricky when you're like stop seeing. friends or what you know what I mean? That's when you have to start. And. that's a that's an that's a discipline. That's an effort I find. Or maybe that's. just where I come from, but it's a. discipline for me. to round out my life. Like it's a pie. and you have to everything has to be a. piece. And I have to consciously go to. those other pieces so that you don't put. too much pressure on a relationship.

Let's go back because you just mentioned. like you going into a relationship. you're like it starts in fear and then. it gets comfortable which I don't think. is like a completely abnormal statement. Like I don't think that's. not what people feel. I think maybe fear. is like a pretty strong word to use. I. think maybe some people are more like. it's a little like you don't know what's. going to happen and it's like exciting. but it's a little like up in the air and. you're kind of like excited to see. what's to come and then eventually you. get comfortable. You're like it's.

[ __ ] terrifying. Yeah. >> Which obviously relates to your. childhood growing up. Your parents got. divorced when you were really young. >> Yeah. >> Your dad remarried three times, four. times. >> Three. Three. I think three. >> Um, how do you think watching your. parents' different relationships. ultimately impacted your perception of. love and commitment? [sighs and gasps]. child of divorce conversation. Like, are.

are you. >> I'm not, but I have interviewed a lot of. people that are. And I also kind of feel. like everyone's got their [ __ ]. >> It's all [ __ ] up. >> It's all It's all [ __ ] [ __ ]. >> It's so weird. >> It's all weird. And now it's on us to to. say, "Okay, cool. I I unpacked it. I. figured it out. Goodbye." That's not me. >> Yes. >> That's That's the new That is the thing. Yes. >> Cuz we therapy now. It's all it's like. [sighs]. [gasps]. it's it's. >> it's too much. Yes. Like figure yourself.

out. >> and then let it go. >> Before you figured yourself out, did you. have any patterns that you now can look. back and be like, "Oh, that's just. because of like what I was raised seeing. that I thought was normal.". >> Yeah. Well, you Yeah. You you I think. everyone is like inherently a little. narcissistic when you're coming up. That's just what it is. You're like when. you're a teenager, you're like, "Oh my. god." and you go to college. That's what. these characters all are. They're. they're just self-involved. Um and and. and you uh.

you just you start not making yourself. the victim because you you learn that th. that there are consequences or that no. one's coming to the rescue and that you. can't just make it about yourself and. you can't weaponize your your past and. use that in your relationships with your. friends cuz people won't stay anymore. They won't they won't stick they don't. want to hang out with you if you're if. you're if you're doing that. >> But it is so [ __ ] up because it takes. you as we all have done like repeatedly.

doing something whether it's a pattern. whether it's like jealousy or. abandonment wounds or um being pulled. back and kind of being like not. emotionally available whatever it is. that you bring. And then slowly you get. the note enough from partners that. you've been with that you're like, >> "Okay, I actually have to look at myself. >> totally. >> and I need to address this.". >> Or you don't take the note. >> and you're out here still just ripping.

>> What do you think one of your notes has. been? >> It's a great question. I'm I'm I mean. I'm um. Yeah, I got abandonment. I don't know. I. got stuff like I'm I'm afraid of I'm. afraid. It's fear. It's all fear. So, I'm like afraid of I've been afraid of. men a lot of the time that like I've. been afraid of um. like male relationships I've had to work. on because. um I just had I had a more complicated. relationship with men than I did with. women. I was I was kind of raised with.

my mom, my sister. So, um so I've had to. work on on that. Um in relationships, I'm I I can It's what I was explaining. you're supposed to do is like divide. your time. I I can totally not do that. and put too much pressure on a. relationship. That's the big note. >> Yeah. I mean, I think that's really. relatable, too. Especially if you have. that instability growing up and then you. get to a point where you're like, "Oh my. god, I found love. I found my person. Like, I found this person that loves me. and I love them." And then, of course,

you don't want that to end because. you're seeing real love and you have it. right there and it's accessible. >> And you're like, I don't want to lose. this. And then sometimes you hang on to. something because you're like even. though subconsciously you know it's not. maybe perfect. You're like but it's also. someone that like loves you. >> And so you're like should I just stay. because it's something stable. >> or should I go because I know it's not. right. And a lot of times with. abandonment wounds you're like I'm just. going to stay or you leave first so that. they don't abandon you. >> You get to jump on it.

>> Mhm. >> That's that's definitely real too. >> How did you feel growing up about your. stepmoms? Cuz that's a lot. >> So funny. The stepmom conversation is so. funny. I didn't know him that well. I. mean, my dad my dad lived in. >> um in uh Franklin in Tennessee and my. mom lived here. >> and I would spend the summers and. whatnot with him or or weeks at a. whatever breaks I'd go out there cuz I. loved it out there and I would hang out. with these new.

these new mamas and uh they were cool, you know. Shout out. to Deborah, you know, I didn't [laughter] I didn't. know him that well, but I was like, >> Deborah, >> what's up, Debbie? Um, but I didn't I. don't know. I I kind of like I kind of. um. I was a kid. I think you have a um you. have a gut reaction to somebody who's. replacing your parent. Like I think I.

gave her a hard time. I was like a. child, but I think I like, you know, Deborah grabbed my arm too hard, but I. think she was probably a a a wonderful. person. Yeah. And yet I was like very. adverse to to change and and same with. my my stepdad. My mom remarried and like. we've always had a. two rams locking horns just because it. goes against your biology. But um but. it's they're also filling a very. difficult role. I could not imagine.

marrying somebody with kids and just. being like these are from a complicated, [ __ ] up place, but I'm going to take. care of them. That's weird. So, >> right, it's like when you get older, you. then can have empathy for both dynamics. because you're like now you're getting. closer to the point where you can. picture potentially being in more of. like a fatherly role where when you were. younger as a kid, you're like, >> "Oh my god, this person's going to. replace my dad or replace my mom and now. you're like, >> whoa, that was a lot to walk into.".

Doesn't mean they were perfect. >> I just had this conversation with my. with my stepdad where I was like I I it. just crystallized recently of like, "Oh, dude, that must be so hard." Um. uh I that's I couldn't imagine. >> You had mentioned kind of like craving. the stability of a family unit your. entire life. >> when things feel shaky. >> Yeah. >> Where do you find or where did you find. that safety.

>> in the in the wrong places and then in. the right places? like you you you you. copy your parents. Like. my dad was a my dad was a very. complicated amazing. person. He was like he was a an. incredible drummer and music was my. whole. uh life and my mom is an incredible. singer and we grew up playing so much.

music and and I learned all about music. and I I've been playing drums since I. was a baby and um and it's what I love. to do and I and I took all those things. from him. I also took his like work. ethic like he he was a he was a tour. manager, he was a drummer, he he ran. [ __ ] he's he was a very disciplined guy. and I I I have so much of that and I. apply that to whatever I I can. Um but. then the the the flip side of that was, you know, he was on these big tours and,

you know, he'd get off these tours. and the lights would be off and it'd be. quiet for months on end. and. he came from an an extremely. um hostile. um upbringing. and he didn't have any tools to cope. with it. Not like we do in our time and. um so yeah, there's a lot of lot of. drinking and and all that's under that. umbrella. and and um and I you know I.

drank a lot with him and um you know. just a lot of drinking and smoking with. dad and so I I I totally like grew up. with an interesting with a skewed. perspective on all that and um and you. know if I wasn't careful I would let. that run my my life especially when you. start doing that when you're young. >> and when you have your parent being. there with you when you're kind of doing. that and it's almost like a bonding. thing.

>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. >> Cuz you're you're young and he's back. off the road and you're like, "Oh my. god, let's sit and let's drink and let's. talk.". >> That was it. >> And that's kind of. >> But you're like a 12-year-old kid, >> right? >> So that's that's where it gets tricky. >> And did you ever feel like cuz it seems. like you weren't always with him. It was. like you would like visit and then you. would leave. Like Yeah. >> Did you feel like you really got to know. him enough or do you like wish that you. could have spent more time with him? Yeah, totally. I wish I spent more time.

with him. This is what this what it is, though. Um, we didn't talk for a long. long periods of time just because. whatever life, but um. but but I got to I got to be with him. for for the important times. Um, but you have like an idea of your. parent. Maybe it's like girls and their mothers. or boys and their fathers, but you you. they're like superheroes. And then you. get to the age where you're like, "Oh,

if that's Superman, we're we're fucked.". You know what I mean? Like, "Oh, no.". And that happened. That switch happened. in the midst of all that chaos. And and. um and. it took me, you know, it made us dripped. apart and then and then we came together. when we were both adults. >> Yeah. Um, I know your dad passed away a little. bit ago. I'm so sorry. No. Yeah. Thanks. >> Um, >> how do you think your perspective also. has kind of changed on like your.

parents' dynamic and what they were able. to. provide for you together even though. they were separated as time has evolved? Like, do you hold resentment? Do you. understand how they what they did? >> Yeah, I do. Not anymore. I had I had. resentment for a long time. And. going back to that, like we that's what. you weaponize. You you weaponize. resentment. You're like, "Oh, this. person [ __ ] me up, so I'm going to. [ __ ] you up." Hurt people hurt people.

Um. but not anymore. It's all love. Yeah. It's all It's all good now. I took I. took a lot I took a lot from my mom and. a lot from my dad. Let's talk about your. mom because. >> obviously you got to work with her on. Tell Me Lies which I remember I was a. fan of her from Sons of Anarchy. I. [ __ ] loved that show. >> Great show. >> Um, how old were you when that was being. made? >> Like fifth grade, sixth grade. I was. young. Yeah. >> And your stepdad and your mom were both.

Yeah. >> working on that show. >> Interesting. >> So maybe I saw that happen, you know. Yeah. Parents working together was a. thing, you know. >> Interesting. You know, >> did you ever watch the show? >> I've seen parts of it. Yeah. >> Okay. Was that a good or bad time in. your life? >> It was great. That's an interesting. question. No, it was great. I mean, it. was cool. Like that's. that was the big family discussion for. many years was that show. >> Yeah. >> It's like if Grace and I had a kid, >> right? >> They would be a they would know tell me.

lies intimately even if they hadn't seen. it. You know, I know everything about. that show. when she decided to come on. cuz you had the role first. >> Yeah. >> What was your reaction to like did you. want it to kind of be your own thing and. not have your mom be involved at all? Was there like a. >> totally there's a little kid thing where. you're like no it's mine, >> right? >> But then I thought, oh yeah, it's fine. No, it's great. I thought it was really. full circle and um I thought she was I. thought Megan was kidding when she said. they want to ask her. I thought I was. like, "Oh, that' be hilarious." And then.

they did and. >> and then it worked out. >> It worked out. >> Okay. Your mom plays your mom. >> Yeah. >> Your girlfriend plays your girlfriend on. the show. >> How, And I'm sure you've been asked this. before, but like I need to ask you it. myself. Like, how did you navigate not. letting those two worlds of your reality. to then the show get blurred together? >> You you you you want to not let it. blend, but I think it does just because. I'm. like I didn't sign on to this. I don't.

do this job because I'm. all there like all together, you know, like I I. >> I like that. >> You know, you come you do make believe. for your job. You're probably a little. [ __ ] up probably. And so you take on a little bit of. everything. and um. and it was hard. It was hard to hard to. not let the lines blur. >> Yeah. Call Her Daddy is brought to you.

by Airbnb. Okay, here in LA it's sunny. It's 75°. and honestly winter doesn't really. exist, which is great, but. [clears throat]. it also made me realize how much I. missed, you know, bundling up and being. out in the snow and wearing the coats. that I've bought, right? So now every. year I make it a point for an annual ski. trip with my girls. For our last trip, we booked a stay on Airbnb and it. honestly set the tone for the entire.

weekend. We found the coziest cabin. right next to the mountain, so getting. out the door in the mornings was easy, even with all of our gear on. And when. we would come back from skiing, we felt. right at home. We had space to kind of. spread out, be comfy. We had these. couches to crash on, a fireplace where. we would sit around with hot cocoa, recapping the day, doing our favorite. thing to do, gossip and girl talk and do. all the good things. So, when it's that. cold outside, also having a place that. feels warm and comfortable to come back. to, it really does make all the.

difference. And that is why as I plan my. next ski trip, booking a stay on Airbnb. is a no-brainer for me. Instead of. feeling like a tourist, you can settle. in and explore the neighborhood, grab. groceries nearby, and really live like a. local wherever you go. And if you know. you want to take a trip, but you don't. know where yet, don't worry. Airbnb. makes that part easy, too. I love the. guest favorites. I am constantly. browsing it. Even if I don't have a.

trip, I'm like, you know what? I'm going. on guest favorites. It's basically a. collection of the most loved homes on. Airbnb. and it's such a good way to get. you inspired for your next trip. Stop. fantasizing about your dream trip and. start planning it on Airbnb. I do want to go back to something that. you were talking about earlier in regard. to your relationship to your father. growing up. Um, you mentioned how. alcohol was.

and became a big part of your life with. him and your relationship. Do you mind. talking a little bit more about how that. influenced and impacted you? Yeah, I. think um. I think we all have. coping mechanisms for how difficult all. of this is.

And. it's different for every person. Mine. mine was. thankfully more clear-cut like I like I. know a lot of the things that hold and. but there's so many things that hold me. back all the time but um. it's so. vast the things that can [ __ ] like. hold you back right. >> like it's it can be substance it can be.

like people behaviors food. um like whatever. >> Everyone's got their thing. >> Everyone's got a thing. And. I think focusing on what that is and. discovering what that is is. what what makes you progress like as a. person, in your career, in your. relationships. Like it that that's what. makes you grow. um for you when you look.

back like you talk about fear and I can. imagine I think when we have fear or we. have anxieties we can try to do things. to avoid that like how did you find. yourself leaning into unhealthy coping. mechanisms to like avoid your pain or. your fear? Well, fear, yeah, fear is the. fear is like the core fear and then and. then and then anger is like a symptom. and like you know drinking can be a.

symptom and uh behavior is a symptom. So. like it's but it starts with that like. I'm not enough. I won't be enough. People are better. than me. I'll be left. I'll be alone. Um. I'm not good enough to be here or to be. with this person. That's those thoughts are like. th those those thoughts start everything.

and then [clears throat]. everything else is like a I don't know. then you just start reacting. >> How do you think you got to a place. where numbing those feelings. you eventually were like wait that's. actually. more unhealthy like by me doing. >> I just got tired. I get I get tired of. running on that. It's like you you don't. it's exhausting to to to. um.

be unconscious. You don't even know it's exhausting. Um and thankfully I had like I had a I. had a parent who. got like my mom got her [ __ ] together. She did. She got her [ __ ] together a. long time ago. And I got to see that you. can get your [ __ ] together. So I had a I. had a really great example in my mom and. I want a lot of things. Like I just want. a lot of things in this life. I want a.

lot of family things, a lot of career. things. And if something's stopping you from. getting those I don't you know what I. mean? It's that simple. If there if. you're being stopped from getting those. things and and you're seeing signs that. you're not getting those things, if. you're missing your audition, if you're. like if you're if you're shitty on the. phone, if you're reacting poorly. Um. it's just like you just got to focus on. it. You got to have that self-nowledge.

though. And sorry to and like you have. to. consequences are what start. pushing that into action. And if you. don't have consequences, it sometimes. you can go on and on and on and on. >> That's what I was going to ask you like. when you were going through maybe one of. the darker times in your life and. struggling and going through all these. feelings of like am I good enough? Am I. not? And then. >> leaning into unhealthy patterns because. that would kind of numb the pain.

>> Yeah. What were examples where you kind. of had to face reality? Whether it was. people confronting you, um maybe you. lost relationships. >> Um yeah, you you it's both. It's it's um. uh. you're subconsciously ruining. everything. You just break [ __ ]. Um right. Yeah. [laughter]. >> Yeah. Well, and it's hard too because. like depending on where you're at in.

your life, like. I feel like for. social reasons, like it's so [ __ ]. confusing. if even if you're talking about like. drinking, like it's so confusing cuz. it's such a social thing. >> Oh yeah. >> And so it's like the fear of like am I. not going to be fun anymore if I stop? Am I not going to be this anymore? And. it's like there's so much that we tell. ourselves if we want to try to get.

better. You almost go to the negatives. first before like we know this is going. to actually make your life a lot. healthier and happier. Um but it's so. ingrained in culture that it's really. hard to be like, can I stop this? should. going on a date like if you've drank on. every date and then you go on a date and. you're not drinking like you feel like a. alien and you feel like oh my god all my. stuff is coming out and I'm not prepared. for this and um and and this is also.

side note these things don't go away. >> when you take a behavior out of your. life the hole the god-sized hole is. [ __ ] there no matter But for most. people, I mean, for all people, >> for all people, there's a there's a. there's a thing that we're trying to. fill with [snorts]. people and places and things and money. And a good point. >> We just are. It doesn't go anywhere. You. just.

>> have to take out the thing that makes it. destructive, >> which is really [ __ ] hard. >> Which is [ __ ] hard. And it's just. substituting vices, right? It's not like. there's one good one and one bad one. It's just what's working for you. If if. you're taking it out in your. relationship, you you're going to hurt. somebody. If you're taking it out with. substances, you're going to hurt. yourself. >> For you, once you were able to be like, "Okay, I am going to try to move forward. in life and like give myself a healthier.

lifestyle, let's say." Um, what were some of the positives and. negatives that you saw once you got that. clarity of like I need to shift my life. I need to change my my actions to my own. body and to myself. >> Everything everything changed. Um, like I want to say that there were. external things that changed. dramatically, but there weren't. But. there were well there were I mean you.

you get you're if you're clear you can. you're just better prepared for life and. you can succeed and blah blah blah but. also you just it's here you just feel. less. like you're. in trouble all the time or you're gonna. you just you have it you have that ease. and that's what we all want is that. ease. I just want to feel okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You want to see your [ __ ] come. out, stop drinking.

>> Yeah. >> You'll get to the real [ __ ] Stop. drinking, you'll feel great. And then. >> and then. >> and then that deep in the core [ __ ]. comes out and it's like, oh yeah, that. was there. I was just covering it up. with. >> with whatever. >> How are you doing with the fears and the. anxieties and all of that? >> I'm doing good. It's been a good um. long educational road uh and and I feel. I feel great. Um.

my life has changed and I have a lot of. uh love a lot of love in my life and and. I I care about people. That's the big. thing. I genuinely. give a [ __ ] about like how some someone. else is doing. which I didn't have when I was like. younger and running on [ __ ] Doritos. and fear like I I you know and that's. the [sighs].

that's the best thing to come out of it. is like cuz all I want all I want is to. be like a like a worker among workers. like just [ __ ] just. I want the life to be like calm and. serene. >> And I think sometimes when people. talk about a darkness in their life, the. beauty of it is it also brings such a a. light because it's like it really forces. you to go through a lot of [ __ ] [ __ ]. >> But then you've been through a lot of.

[ __ ] [ __ ]. >> I had to because if I if I didn't then. my [ __ ] would run the I would I wouldn't. be working. I wouldn't be around people. I I had to. That's That's what I'm. learning. You can actually just. face the fear. >> It's amazing. Call Her Daddy is brought. to you by SoFi, the all-in-one finance. app where you can bank, borrow, and. invest. Daddy gang, you could be. scrolling, sleeping, doing all the same. things that you're already doing and.

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best. Shop skincare at Sephora. Okay, before we go, I want to end with. like a couple rapid fire. >> Okay. >> What's the time you absolutely bombed an. audition? >> All of them. So many of them. I've got. like 150 of them. >> Okay. Other than you, which Tell Me Lies. character is the most insufferable? >> Uh Evan, >> that that sounds like something Steven. would say. Well, I love. >> all but I just mean like factually based.

on the plot. >> Um, and also him with Bree's mom and. getting the mom drunk before seeing Bri, >> right? I think I think he [ __ ] [ __ ] up. again. I think he I think he's actually. >> Evan like bad news. >> Yeah, he is bad news. >> Oh, wait. Insufferable. The teacher. Oliver. >> Disgusting. >> Bad boy. >> Um, what is the pettiest thing you've. ever done after a breakup? >> I disintegrated my Instagram. What does that even you disintegrated. your. >> like I didn't just like delete but it. was like delete delete forever destroy.

and I was like yes delete forever type. in password gone forever. >> to yours not her. >> to mine. >> and you just disappeared. >> I just ghosted cuz I was like I didn't. want to deal with seeing anything I. didn't want to deal with do I just so I. did you ask destructive. >> what's the pettiest thing. >> oh petty that's not really petty that. was more just like. >> insane. >> But I had some good momentum going, too. And this was this was a long time ago, and I just poof had to start over. >> Um, okay. What is the best gift you've.

ever gotten for Grace? >> I got her um. I got her a I got her a little Cartiier. last year. >> Oh, ring, bracelet, necklace. >> I got a little Cartier ring. >> Cute. >> But I got I didn't know it was the. wedding ring. >> You got her the wedding ring one. >> I didn't know. >> She's like, you're proposing. I Yeah, it. was so funny. I I was like, I didn't. know that this was. >> Oh, like the wedding. >> I didn't know. >> Oh, Jackson. Did she know?

>> Yeah. >> And she's like, >> "No, it's a sick ring, though. You don't. have to wear it as a wedding. >> We just like have it on other other. fingers.". >> Okay, that's cute. >> Cute. >> Um, what do you think your two top love. languages are? >> The ones that I need or the ones that I. give? >> Both. Give me both. I love that you know. that as a man also. Good job. >> Well, I give acts of service. >> Okay. >> Huge time. Big time. That's like how I. show love. I'll do this for you. I'll do.

this for you. I'll do this. And then I want to receive words. Affirm. affirmation. I want you to tell me. >> how great I am. >> How great I am. [laughter]. >> Tell you tell me you like me. Do you remember the first big purchase. you splurged on with your Tell Me Lies. paycheck? >> I bought a I bought a I bought a car. >> Oh, >> I didn't buy a Yeah, I bought a I bought. a I needed a new car and I bought a new. car. >> What kind of car?

>> I bought a Dodge Durango. >> That makes a lot of sense. >> With the with the Hemi. >> Very loud car. >> You're obnoxious. >> I'm obnoxious. >> Wait, so you're the one driving that I'm. like, "Oh my god." No, but I'm not the. guy who's like. >> But can you explain why to the sound? Like what do what do we need that for? >> Power. >> Power. >> No. No. I just love it. >> Stupid. >> My dad was my men are so stupid. My dad. was such a car guy. He and I I remember. I. >> showed him I went to all these. dealerships with my dad.

>> and uh we picked that one. >> Cute. >> Yeah. [snorts]. >> Okay. Okay. >> It's a great loud car. are still have. I'm surprised you didn't hear it pull. into your. >> I'm happy I didn't cuz I would have. roasted you at the very top of this. show. >> I know. >> Um yes, we're finally sadly done with. Tell Me Lies, but. >> where are we going to see you next? Like. >> do you have projects that you're working. on? Do you have things that you're going. to be doing? >> Yes. Yes. >> I know you can't tell me, but like. you're going to be acting obviously.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Have you filmed other things? I did film. something else. >> Okay. >> I filmed something after the last. season. >> And was that character so different than. Steven? >> Opposite. >> How did you feel about that? >> It was awesome. >> Electric. >> It was electric. It was everything. It. was levity. >> Yeah, it was super fun. Um Okay. It was. like very like it like natural. >> like bring yourself to it like like.

true. It was very like truthful and. natural type of acting which was very. cool. So is like you could do that. everywhere but tell Me Lies was very. like a lot of precision and and we're. telling this story and it was like a it. was a very different like artistic very. like different thing and it was great. It was you know. >> I think that's needed. I saw Grace on a. red carpet being like I think I need to. play some like lighter roles like from. like Lucy and Amanda Knox. I was like, "Girl, you deserve to like [snorts] get.

in the car.". >> Kale, she needs to She needs to go do. some. >> She needs reprieve. >> Yes, [snorts]. she does. And she's the funniest [ __ ]. person ever. >> She's amazing. >> She's so funny. >> I am so happy I got to know you because. again, like I didn't know what to. expect. >> I know. >> We've seen such a large character be. built and I agree. I can imagine you're. like, "Loved that. Love what I did with. that." But I'm excited for people to get. to know Jackson. >> Yeah. which I feel like we really did. today. >> I think we got some good little slices.

>> I think if anything there's something um. very calming to have watched this. traumatizing show and then have you kind. of like close us out. Everyone's going. to have watched it. They're going to. wake up in the morning on Wednesday and. they're going to be like, "Oh my god, I'm about to tune in this little piece. of [ __ ] Oh my god, he rode off in the. sunset." And then we're going to hear. from you and you're going to be like, "Hey guys, I'm Jackson. like. >> life was hard and and I Yeah. Like. >> and I'm here and I'm just hoping to, >> you know, have a good career.

>> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] That's. >> That's what I hope. That's what. >> That's what I hope. I hope that, too. And I can feel they're going to take. that. >> Yeah. Good. >> Jackson, thank you so much for coming on. Call Her Daddy. >> Thank you for having me. >> This was really lovely. >> I had a really good time. >> Me, too. >> Thank you. [music]. >> [music].

>> Heat.