Hilary Duff: Life & Love After Lizzie

What is up, daddy gang? It is your. founding father, Alex Cooper with Call. Her Daddy. >> Hillary Duff, welcome to Caller Daddy. >> Thanks. >> You've been busy. >> I know, >> girl. I know. >> you have been busy. I know. >> You're on tour. You have an album coming. out for the first time in 10 years. >> I feel like my friends are really sick. of me actually on their feed. They're. like, "We don't ever see you." And now. we just our like Instagram is just full.

of you. And like. >> the internet is Hillary Duff right now. Every single time I open Instagram, Tik. Tok, anything, I'm like, "Okay, Hillary.". >> You're like, "I get it. >> She's back. I get it.". >> How are you feeling about it, though? Honestly, I'm enjoying it a lot. And I. couldn't have asked for like a better. welcome, you know? like everything has. feel like felt so like celebratory and. like kind and like like.

energized like I just that that's just. like the word that I keep coming back to. where I'm like wow I really didn't. realize it was such an appetite and like. I'm you never know how it's going to go. like I really took a huge break and the. um the like first steps have been like a. dream so but it's super hard and like. the back half that's not shiny is like a. lot of moving parts and a lot of.

scheduling and a lot of work and a lot. of like you know I have four kids and a. family that I really like being with. So. that's what I'm so excited to talk to. you about today cuz I think there's. probably so many women who are like we. know we can't technically do it all but. it really looks like you're literally. doing it all. Also I thought it was. funny. I was researching this morning. and everyone's kind of calling this like. the Hillary Duff Renaissance. Like every. they're like she's back. In what ways. for you has this kind of felt like a.

rebirth or like a reintroduction of you? It's this like. combination of. like forever my husband and I were just. like this is going to be a sick victory. lap. And we kind of kept calling it. that. And. it's really cool to be at this stage of. my life and just have ownership over. myself and like what I feel about things. and my opinion and what I will and won't.

do and like not knowing and having to. ask and like just this whole like I'm. just so much. better and like clearer and like to get. to have the the opportunity to go back. and like celebrate things that, you know, I didn't feel like were mine. anymore. Um, is like I'm just really. looking forward to it. >> Can you explain a little bit more about.

what you mean by like you didn't feel. like they were yours anymore? that it see it's kind of seems heavier. than it is. But even like thinking about. what my my set list is going to look. like and what songs I'm going to be. comfortable putting on, you know, actually doing with my body on stage and. um or like singing lyrics of songs that. are 20 years old and being like, what is. how do I. how do I show up and like just make this.

me? And I think before rehearsals it. felt. like those weren't quite mine yet and I. didn't know how to make them that way. And then I was like just started tearing. it up and I was like got it. I am here. to eat and like it's easy and I feel far. enough removed from it that I'm not like. embarrassed or. um uncomfortable. Like it they're mine. and they're mine to to keep. And like.

even the with love dance, like that was. like a like the internet lore around the. with love dance. >> So good. >> So good. But like for me, horrifying. Like absolutely horrifying. But like now. I'm like this is I get to be a part of. it and it's way more fun. >> Which I think is life. Like I've. interviewed so many people that were. child stars and it feels like a pretty. prominent theme in a lot of your lives. is like having enough distance from that. really really loud time in your life.

that everyone remembers you from to be. >> or just that everyone can dig up. >> Yes. Yes. >> Like, >> wow. I would I would love for like it's. just it's a hard you got to be tough, you know, because that is to grow up and. have everybody to like recall all of. your all of your like chapters is a wild. experience. >> and have footage and pictures and. commentary, >> tabloids, like everything you could. imagine that like everyone when they.

were in their awkward middle school. phase that were like, "Thank God like I. didn't post that picture." You're like, "Well, it was posted at me. I didn't. have an option.". >> Correct. >> And I feel like what's so underrated is. like you have had decades of sustaining. a career, which is very few people are. able to maintain that. >> I feel like that's really nice. And. there's been a lot of highs and lows in. my career. >> Okay. Well, we're going to go through. all of them, but I did want to just I. was going to quote you cuz I'm like I. get it. like you've done moments where. you're kind of like more in the.

spotlight versus not, but you told Vogue. last year that you operate from a place. of does anyone still care about me? I. wanted you to talk a little bit more. about what you meant by that. I think. there being a child actor and doing. something that made such a big mark on. people's like literal soul. um created a lot of confusion and like a. pretty big battle scar on me where I'm. like do people feel that like playing a.

role on TV that never grows up like. she's just there forever right and so. getting into. my. like late teenhood into like my early. 20s and even like early 30s where I feel. like the battle of like frustration that. like. do people love me or do they love that. character? But yet everywhere I go. people, you know, say.

you raised me or like whatever. And like. now I'm like confident enough and like. fine enough and I think I. love my new work enough to where I can. like celebrate the old. Um you just feel. like wow will I ever do anything that. will like resonate with someone the same. and then you carry that as like a you're. not good enough or it wasn't you know. but meanwhile like I've had an amazing. career like younger was career.

highlight. >> Love that show. love that show. So fun. People didn't really find it until it. was like done. >> But like that was a huge. >> part of my something that I said yes to. that was really scary because I had to. like be in New York and be away from my. child and like but like a huge growth. period for me of like, oh, I'm doing. something good and like stop measuring. like I don't have to continue to measure. all of my projects and the success that. they've had. It's interesting you say. that because I feel like some um.

musicians I've talked to if they had a. number one hit ever come out then. they're like. >> because you come out of the gate so. strong which a lot of people are envious. of but you're like but now that's kind. of the barometer of like where I have to. hit and having a Lizzie McGuire moment. you're like. >> changed your life changed so many other. people's lives but now it's like I hear. what you're saying you're like can I. ever live up to that which is why I. think this era is so exciting for your. fans. Yeah, Caller Daddy is brought to. you by [music] T-Mobile.

Okay, Daddy gang. I am starting to. [music] think a night in may actually be. the new night life. Uh, where am I in my. life right now? Okay, I have been. working so much lately that all I want. to do at the end of a long day is hang. out on my couch. There is just nothing. better than getting into comfy clothes, pulling out some of my favorite snacks, curling up with Henry and Bruce and. Matt. You can join too, Matt. And doing.

absolutely nothing. And on those nights. in, T-Mobile has me covered with value. that keeps on stacking up the more I use. it. Like streaming benefits and snack. perks that truly deliver. The math is. mathing. With so many perks and. benefits, T-Mobile is basically making. staying in a lifestyle. So, you know. what? I love you even more now, T-Mobile. Okay, my go-to recently has. been popping on a reality TV show, ordering a whole pizza, and hitting next.

episode all night long with a side of. ranch. Okay. And if you have T-Mobile. like I do, you won't believe how good. staying in can be. Check it out at. T-Mobile.com/magenta. Status. Disclaimer: Streaming benefits. included while you maintain a qualifying. line in good standing. Basically, today I'm like, we need to. give a little nostalgia, >> of course. >> Um, and then though I do really today. want to get to know you more as the. woman Hillary Duff because I agree.

you've talked so much about your younger. years. >> I love to visit her now. I'm I'm good. with it. >> Okay, let's go back to people who may. not be familiar. You initially get the. role of Lizzie Magcguire. Can you just. like kind of lightly tell the story of. how that audition went and how you even. got the role? >> Yes. So, I actually had been replaced. off of a TV show that was an ABC show. Um, and they replaced me with twins so. they could like work longer hours. >> And I was like, yeah, I was probably 10.

years old and I'm like. I got fired. Like, can you imagine? >> Cuz there not two of you. Yeah, >> that is. >> by the way, when you're a child actor, you're like, you need two of me. Okay, how do I make that work? Like, you're. like a dog, like just want to please, you know? So, that was really. devastating. And I was like, I want to. go home. I don't want to be in LA. anymore. I went back to Texas, started. going to real school, and my mom called. me and she was like, they want to see. you for Lizzie McGuire. And I I I had. auditioned for a bunch of Disney Channel.

shows before, so they were like familiar. with me and called me a lot. I never. booked any of them. Um, and I was like, "No, whatever." And somehow I got out to. California. They like I changed my mind. I I got to see my friends for the. weekend, like my Oakwood apartment, LA. friends. And I was not prepared. It was. a pretty big monologue, the the. audition. And I. used to be pretty prepared and take.

auditions seriously. And I was like 0%. prepared. And Robin Lipins, the casting. director, was like, "You didn't even. look at this." And I was like, "Correct." [laughter]. Like, "Sorry." [gasps]. >> She's like, "Can you come back tomorrow. and know this?" And I was like, "Oh, challenge accepted. Let's go." And I. worked on it. Came back ripped in there, [laughter]. >> as you should. >> She was like, "What are your special. talents?" I was like, "Oh, I prefer to.

walk on my hands more than my feet.". Like I think I was just wacky and they. were and like I think I came in with. like mismatched clothing cuz that was. very me and then I got it. >> Wait. And how old were you when this was. happening? >> I think I must have been like 11 turning. 12 or had just turned 12. And then we. shot the pilot and then didn't shoot for. a while. So I remember like not getting. my hopes up. I remember my mom being. like, "Don't get your hopes up. Remember. like what can happen. Like it's. exciting. We're going to be excited.". But like.

>> not getting fired at like 10 years old. from a job at first. Like that'll scar. you. You're like. >> or being the star of the TV show. This. TV show is literally called Lizzie. Magcguire and you're like hope it gets. picked up and if it doesn't like. >> I'm a failure. >> Probably I sucked. Yeah. >> Oh yeah. Like no pressure as an. 11year-old basically 12. How do you. think playing Lizzy as it continued like. started to kind of shape and inform your. personality? I think that she was kind of like the. everybody's girl and I also feel like.

I've always been that. So. um. and also like a little. I have this very weird mixture of like. I'm always been confident in who I am. Um, and I think that she had that, but. she was also like kind of dorky and had. all these she didn't really fit under. one category. And you know, that's why I. think she was so like lovable and and. endearing. And I feel like I've also.

still kind of carry that, but I just can. like dress chic sometimes. [laughter]. >> You're like, my fashion has gotten. better. Thank you very much. Lovely you, Lizzy. But I moved on. Okay. You can say. over there, I actually look chic as. You do. Um, obviously I'm thinking. about you even just being like, "Oh my. god, like growing up in Texas and all. this." Like then the show becomes a. massive success and you quickly become. one of the most famous young women in. the world at the time. Like do you have.

any core memories of realizing like, "Oh. my god, I'm now like famous. Like people. know me.". >> Yeah. I was at the Fashion Square Mall. like about to hang out with my friends. which we did all the time and there were. Beverly Center too. There was like. posters of Lizzie Magcguire on the like. circulating things and I get like mobbed. by kids. and like somebody that works at the mall. like sticks me in basically like like a.

cleaning closet or like some. some like closet where they keep. supplies or like and just like pulls me. into the back and they're like, "You. need to call your mom or call someone to. come and pick you up.". >> Yes. Hey, mom. Um we forgot that like. I'm basically famous now. >> I'm in the broom closet of the mall. like, "Can you come get me? >> I'm trying to act like a normal girl and. it's not working out for shit.". >> Wow. >> I know. >> And then after that, did you realize. like maybe I can't go those? >> But then the other thing that was. happening was like it wasn't that cool.

to be a Disney kid yet. Like now you're. a Disney kid and you have like this. massive career. That wasn't really It's. not like you had like mad respect cuz. you had a Disney Channel show and you. were like starting to be a singer. Like. that was pre everything. Um, talk to me. about your life at home. You become this. big star. Like how did it impact your. normal life at home? >> Honestly, it didn't until later. Like. some things changed later, but like but. my mom was pretty strict.

She she had this like weird combination. of like she trusted us, but she was. like, "You don't get special treatment. cuz you're on a TV show." you know, like. we had been we had been out here kicking. around for like four years pre me. getting Lizzie Magcguire. Um, so like. she would I remember she would like take. my cell later when I was like 18. I. remember she tried to take my cell phone. away and I like sassed her so bad and I. was like I pay the bill. She was like.

absolutely not. >> She's like sit down. You're like okay. >> Yeah. I feel like there's kind of like. this known reputation you have as one of. the few child stars who escaped the. major pitfalls of Hollywood. >> Mhm. >> Do you feel that way? Like do you feel. like you got out pretty unscathed? >> Yeah. I think that there's no. [sighs and gasps]. I think that people look at me and think. like, "Oh, she's had it easy, maybe.".

And I definitely have not had it easy. Um, but I. feel okay. Like I really just feel okay. I'm like I did not like go crazy, I. guess. Um, and I think that a lot of that could. have to do with my upbringing and. feeling, you know, like I was protected. when I was a child. Um, but this industry is like really.

hard. And it's not until you're like you. take some space away from it that you. can zoom in and be like, "Oh, that was a. weird thing that happened. Oh, that was. how did I get through that? That, you. know, there's there's that." And I I. think it's taken getting to this age to. be like give myself like actually take. some credit for how I navigated it. What. do you think for you internally? Like. not all the noise, not all the people. around you. What internally did you have.

to tap into to kind of get through that. period in your life? So, it's tricky and. again it's been something that I've been. able to like dive more into through like. therapy and. really being like, well, why did I do. that? Or how come I feel this way? And. if I whatever. Like the thing that was. also cool about it is being a teenager. and you're like I don't give a I. just want to hang out with my friends. Um you know like I had a desire to just.

be like normal and be doing normal kid. things or teenager things and adult. things. So, um, it was this weird. those things were like existing at the. same time. And I think it was like a. reprieve from. not being able to like fully grow up or. take the reigns was like just escaping. with the normal part of my life that I. could go to. >> Yeah, that makes sense. You kind of have. to like find your outlet.

>> Yeah. And I like, you know, cared about. my boyfriend and just like all that. other stuff was. annoying to me. >> Yeah. And then eventually you would deal. with it. >> I did. >> Um, okay. Let's go through. We're about. to move on from this younger phase of. your life, but I do need to know a. couple things. Okay. >> Are you ready? >> Okay. You're like, I don't know. [laughter]. What are you about to ask me? Okay. Did. you intentionally crash the Freaky.

Friday premiere? [snorts]. >> Oh my god. [laughter]. >> The lore around this, Hillary. [gasps]. >> Um, I think absolutely. Yes. >> Yeah. I was a teenager. >> Wait, were you surprised when Lindsay. Lohan showed up to the Cheaper by the. Dozen premiere? >> No. >> No. I mean, that was like my childhood. fe like like Nemesis. So crazy. >> I know. Which I mean I can't wait. I'm.

sure my publicist be like, "What the. are you doing?" [laughter]. >> But now it's so many years later, like, who cares? It does not matter. Also, like Lindsay came up to me at a club. once and was like, "Are we good?" And I. was like, "We're good." She was like, "Let's take a shot." I was like, "Okay.". >> It was amazing. >> But also like Chad Michael Murray. invited me. Why? What? He I don't want. to start any more stuff, but like he was. like, "You should come with me." And I. was like, "Mhm, probably I should.". >> Mhm. [laughter]. >> Honestly,

>> I mean, what was I like six? No, I think. I was younger than that. >> The millennial girls are screaming at. their TVs right now. Next. Is it true. that you had military training for your. role in Cadet Kelly? >> Yes. Mhm. >> They really took it that serious. >> Oh, yeah. >> I just need you to know that I literally. bought. >> I think I could still do like a rifle. You got a rifle in here? >> Oh, no. But I think you remember. >> I think I would remember some of the. like tap tap how you like handle it and. like flip it around and it was basically. like a baton kind of but with well there.

was baton in that batons. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh, I remember. >> Yeah. We were at a dance studio in. Toronto. I remember. and like Christy. Carlson Romano and I would like walk. from this hotel that they put all the. like actor kids up in in Toronto and go. to this like dance studio down the. street and it was really intense. >> That movie was. >> doing our own stunts. Girl, >> it was so good. I remember I like bought. cargo pants and like was trying to be. like that vibe and I was like what am I.

trying to do? Like I was in Pennsylvania. like literally trying to be you and I. was like I need to stop. Um okay, next. This is one of my favorites. You had an onscreen romance with Penn. Badgely in Gossip Girl. I will never. forget where I was when I found out Miss. Hillary Duff was going to be in season 3. of Gossip Girl. I was shook. >> Season three. >> Season 3. I know. I looked it up cuz I. forgot there was like 90 episodes per. season. How were you approached for the. role and like why did you want to do it? [sighs]. >> I was approached by the creators of the.

show and they were just like, "We would. love to have you on Gossip Girl." And I. was like, I love Gossip Girl. And Yes. And by the way, I grew up with Pen. Badgely. >> You did? >> Yeah. So, I grew up at this like. apartment complex called Oakwood. Apartments. And he was a Lakeside kid, but sometimes we would like all hang. out. It'd be like if you went to. Campbell Hall, but someone goes to. Oakwood and you like all. >> And was this like little actor vibes or. just like normal kids and you just. happen to. >> Some kids were normal. Most of them were. actors.

>> Okay. So, you were like you knew him. immediately when you stepped on set. >> Yeah. But honestly, that was a tough I think they were kind. of all sick of each other by the time I. got there. It wasn't like, "Oh my god, we're hanging. It's fun." I was like, "Oh, I'm showing up to a job." And. Right. You're like, "Tension is pretty. high right now.". >> I felt pretty high. Yeah. We need to. talk about the threesome that shocked. the world. Because when I tell you that. threesome, I was like, to those who.

don't remember, it was Dan, Vanessa, and. you. >> And the world was so pissed. Do you. remember the world got really pissed? >> No. >> Because they were trying to force the. Dan and Vanessa romantic vibe and we. were like, "Stop trying to make it. happen. It never should happen.". >> Oh, okay. >> And then I think you were in the. threesome like hanging out in the corner. >> and Dan wasn't like he was going for. Vanessa more. >> [snorts]. >> I need to rewatch this. >> I was going to say, do you know, can you. tell I've watched this like a million. times? >> Amazing. I was getting like the the. shaft. >> You were getting the shaft because it. was like Dan and Vanessa like finding. their romance and you were like, Dan,

like why am I even here? Like. >> you're like, I'm the famous one. Wasn't. I like a famous actress? >> You were famous girl in it. Um, >> but I have to tell you something funny. that happened and sometimes this happens. when I'm in Europe and like Lizzie. Magcguire happened later after my music. in like Europe. >> Oh yeah. And so I wasn't like totally. known for Lizzie Magcguire there right. away. It was more like my music stuff. and then some people I think Lizzie. Magcguire got huge there eventually. whatever. >> I was in Paris not too long ago on a.

girls trip with two of my best friends. and my bag didn't make it and the girl. at the airport was like, "Are you from. Gossip Girl?" And I'm like, "Yeah.". [laughter] And I get obsessed when. things like that happen. So sometimes. like weird Gossip Girl fanatics. >> We That's so good. You must be so happy. in that moment. You're like, "Yes, I am. from Gossip Girl." I don't remember what. my name was. I don't remember what my. lines were, what my scenes were, but I.

was there. >> I don't remember what my name was. >> So fun, dude. That fandom is so funny. >> I was like, "So, can you get me my bag. quickly?". >> Yeah. Cuz I was like, "In Gossip Girl.". [laughter]. They're like, "Is that Lizzie McGuire?". You're like, "No, Gossip Girl.". Honestly, so good. >> Um, okay. I heard that the actor who. played Ethan Craft invited you to his. high school formal in real life. Did you. go? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I went to a lot of high school formal. formals. >> And at that point, you're famous. >> Mhm. >> How did that work?

>> The school was really excited that I was. there. And I was just like, "Yeah, I'm. excited to be here. I didn't go to high. school or middle school.". >> You're like, "I'm taking it in.". >> Yeah. I'm like, "Look at all these. people grinding on the dance floor. Me, too. Let's go." Did people leave you. alone? >> Like I think enough. >> And also you going with the Ethan Craft. character is kind of a mind because. people were probably like. >> he went as like a group. >> Okay. So it wasn't like. >> No. >> Okay. And did you guys ever have a thing. behind the scenes? Okay. No. Ethan. wasn't your vibe.

>> But he did have a parrot that scared me. at his house that like. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I showed up to the house and like. I didn't know that I was like standing. behind a giant bird cage and the parrot. like literally punked me and was like. boo. And I was like oh my god. And like. the parent parent like knew how to like. scare. >> Ethan. Good old Ethan. I only I'm like. Ethan. Ethan and Kate. Okay. Um, were. you and Aaron Carter already dating. before his cameo on Lizzie Magcguire or. did that like bud on that set? >> We weren't dating.

Also, this is where like all this stuff. started. There was no social media to be. like who was dating who, right? >> God. Yeah. Yeah. No. So, you just take. people's word for it and then like. people get mad at you. >> Wait, why? >> I mean, if you're like Lindsay Lohan or. me and he's like probably dating both of. us, like, you know what I mean? >> Oh, I see. I see. Like, you could put up. an Instagram story. >> No. >> Well, we're clarifying now. >> Also, texting was like pushing three. buttons. >> T9. >> to get the like Yeah. >> Oh my god. You and Cinderella story.

like, "Hey, what's up today?" And it. >> just filmed like a social like one of. the. >> like a Tik Tok. Yeah. of that doing. something for something else and I'm. we're sitting there trying to get the. LOL to come up and I'm like swiping at. the screen and someone was like you need. to stop doing that. It's what this like. old flip phone cell phone. >> to get LOL you have to be like 1 2 3 1 2. 3 4 It's so crazy. >> I called my son downstairs who's 13 and. I was like I just want you to watch what. this used to be like for us.

>> He was like I don't care. >> He's actually so sweet and he if he. doesn't care he acts like he does. You're like, "Look what mommy had to. do." That means like we were dedicated. If you had a text that you wanted to. send on T9, >> I know. >> if you sent a paragraph, you were in. love with someone. >> No, I know. It was like that was a lot. of effort. >> That was a lot. >> And what about when you would make a. typo and like have to go. >> and then you back and the whole thing? No, no, no. It was dedication through. and through. >> Okay. So, sorry. Back to Aaron Carter. I. had met him at his birthday party. I got. invited to his birthday party. I'm.

telling you, the Olsson twins were. there. Who else would have been there? I. thought it was going to be like this. huge list I could get you excited by. >> Like, >> but it was the Olsson twins. >> Okay. Yeah. So, that's all that matters. We're like happy. >> Um, maybe Amanda Bines was there. >> Yeah. I mean, it was like. >> the OGs. >> Oh my god. >> On his birthday. So, I met him there. There was like some cute sparks and then. I think I pitched the idea of having him. come on the show and then like we. started dating pretty soon after that. I.

need everyone to go rewatch because I. just did it this morning while I was. putting my makeup on. >> The I want candy moment where you and. Miranda are in the corner. >> and you keep doing this thing where. you're like putting your hand in your. hair. >> Why? >> You know, it's so good cuz you can tell. you like kind of like him and he's like, I want. >> in a full silver jumpsuit. >> Full silver jumpsuit. Your hair is like. And then your hair's all crimped up. crimped. And you keep going like this. when he comes over to you. [snorts]. Hillary, it's actually I it's like an.

actual landmark on the internet. Like I. need everyone to go watch it because. it's so cinematic. Also, it like holds. up. It was amazing. Okay, good to know. Okay, last last one. Lizzie Magcguire. movie. It's important that you know like. to this day, peak cinema. Peak cinema. Like also back to you getting fired for. not being a twin. Hi. Hello. You got. your revenge because you ended up. playing two characters. Yes. My. four-year-old is very like, "How? But.

how? How did you do that?" I'm like, >> "You're like, "Don't worry." Okay. Wait, so have they seen the movie? >> Yes. My four-year-old just watched it on. a plane. >> I know. And when it was over, she just. goes, I she was sitting next to my. assistant and she was like, "Again?". >> No. [laughter]. All of us. She's literally all of us. again. Do your other kids like the. movie? Um, Banks is like a Lindsay Lohan. stand. [laughter].

>> No. >> Yeah. No, honestly, Banks is like my. number one like cheerleader to the max. So, like she obviously like doesn't know. any of that stuff. I know. So, it's. >> I know. >> It's actually amazing. >> Yeah. >> Um, what is their favorite project of. yours? >> I've not asked that. I don't know. >> You don't know? No. >> Have you showed them everything? >> No. I'm not like, let's go down. Sit. Everybody sit down. >> I forget I forget that it's like not. cool of a mom to be like now let's watch. my next project. But for me I'm like.

they haven't seen Cheaper by the Dozen. >> I think Luca probably has seen Cheaper. by the Dozen. I think he was probably. more interested in that cuz it was like. Boys and Frogs and like football and you. know things like that. But um they've. seen some of it. Um my same assistant. put on like Bunked the other day. I know. And I was like, "You should. probably be putting on the Z Magcguire.". >> You're like, "What are you doing?". You're like, "You're a traitor. What is. this?" Turn on Cinderella Story now. >> Oh, wow. Okay. Well, we need to know.

when they actually. >> My four-year-old has seen parts of. Cinderella story and she's basically. like, "Can we just get to the end with. the dress?" And she doesn't understand. the mask and how he didn't recognize me. with that mask on. I know. >> She's like, she that's you, mommy. And. you're like, >> "Yeah." She's like, "But how would he. not know?" And I was like, "No, I know. That's the age-old question, babe. >> That's the best part. That's the best. part of the whole thing. Um, okay. Thank. you for going down memory lane with me. That was very fun. You gave us all we. needed to know. Call Her Daddy is. brought to you by Zip Recruiter. Daddy.

gang. Let me just I'm going to set the. scene. Okay. You are deep in the dating. apps. You're starting to lose hope. And. then suddenly there he is. 63, blue. eyes, photos with a cute puppy, allegedly has a good job. and his prompt. answers, they're actually low-key giving. some personality. He checks all the. boxes, but then you go on the date and. the reality, he's 5'9, unemployed, and. the dog was his ex-girlfriends that they. share together. Sometimes you just don't.

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ziprecruiter.com/chd. I mean, you started working so young. You were like 11 years old and you lived. so much life at such a young age. How. did that impact what you were looking. for and what you were ready for in your. 20s? >> Oh gosh. I was. I was always like a relationship girl. So I was in like long-term relationships. my whole life really. Um dating was not.

easy for me. Um and so around that time. I met Mike. I met my first husband and. we had so much fun. And that just felt like. a really solid like. place to land, you know, >> cuz you were 22 when you first got. married. >> Yeah. So I was like 19 when we met and. we got married really young and then I.

had Luca so young and I think I was like. very I always knew I was going to be a. young mom. I always wanted to be a mom. I always wanted a lot of kids. Um, so that was really. ex it was major. I mean that was a crazy. time like to be 20 like pregnant at 23. 24. >> How did you know you were ready for that. with your career? >> I didn't care about my career at that. point. Mike was playing hockey. I was.

like going to live with him for like. months at a time wherever he would play. and we were just like having fun and I. didn't really care that much about my. career. >> Yeah. Having been so young and lived so. much life, like what did it mean to you. when you had a child? Like what like. when you had Luca, like did it change. everything for you? >> Yeah, big time. I was so excited to have him to focus. on.

um. my life had been like so about me and. like I didn't want all of that. I wanted. I think just something that felt like. tangibly mine to hold on to and to focus. on and um yeah it was really fun. It was. also really confusing. I had not a. single friend who had a baby or was. pregnant because obviously I was so. young. My friends were like are you. serious teen mom? What are you doing? We. can you talk about that because I think. that's like very relatable where a lot.

of my audience is either the girl that. is having the baby that none of their. friends are at that stage or the reverse. where all their friends are having kids. and they're not like how did that impact. your friendships? >> Well, my friends were all going out and stuff. and I was like I'm not doing that. anymore. Yeah. Um and that was kind of. hard but I didn't really care about that. as much. It was just. um.

I think all the physical changes were a. big deal for me. Um. I think I gained like 50 lbs. I was. pregnant with him and I'm 5'2. So that. was like a wild. just like oh my god, what has happened. to me? Um, but I'm trying to think, one. of my best friends, we've been friends. for. 20 years now. I remember she walked into. my door late and I was like, I think you.

expect everyone to get it. when you have a baby and no one gets it. and you're like this m like all of a. sudden I'm on a schedule and like if you. don't know what it's like to be on a. schedule cuz you don't have like a. family yet. 20 minutes late I'm like this isn't like. us a year ago. This is me now where like. my b like I like nursing a baby is not. just like oh you're like my milk's. coming in and I've got to get like get. this out. You know what I mean? And then.

the baby goes down for a nap and if that. doesn't happen I get not a single minute. to my day. You know what I mean? So like. looking forward to seeing your friend. and then them being late. You're like. it's over. We can't hang. [laughter]. And and then also the nerves of like be. now I would be like. >> come it's all good. >> but you're it's your first kid. Your. first kid know what you're doing. >> Yeah. You're just nervous. So my friend. sorry the the part of the story was that. my friend like watched me like nurse my. baby. My boobs were like huge and you're.

you know it's all like clunky and new. and whatever. And she text me and she. was like I don't even it's crazy to not. recognize you. And I was like, [gasps]. [laughter]. >> "Oh my god, >> I know." And later I was like, "You hurt. my feelings so much by saying that, but. I know you didn't mean it. Like, it must. look insane, right? Like I'm like. nursing a baby and. we've like grown up together and now. this like crazy thing happened.". >> It feels like you're like a new person. to her and really all you probably need.

in that moment is to feel like. >> eat a salad and have a hang. >> Yes. and like not feel like you're this. outsider because everyone in your life. is still. >> I want to hear who you just hooked up. with and I wanted like things to be. normal but nothing's normal, >> right? Can you also share a little bit. more about like how your body image was. affected by pregnancy? Cuz I think. that's like I have never had a kid and I. do I would love to have kids at one. point, but I think for women it's so. hard because it's like you're expected. to be everything for everyone and you go.

through this like extreme change in your. life. and women then it's like the. bounce back thing and what do you look. like? Like how did you manage all of. that? I don't know because I dealt with a lot. of. I I remember being. I think in Mexico with my mom or. something um like 4 months after I had. Luca and we had like a private home. there that we were staying at and a.

papar paparazzi got a picture. and they were like Hillary debuts. postbab bod and I was like babe I'm not. debuting anything. You're taking a. picture of me at a private house when I. think I'm with my family and my baby and. like it's horrendous. So that's like so. messed up and I feel like it's getting. better and as I've. had subsequent kids like you're just. like, "Oh, I recognize this. I know what.

it is." It's hard to get through this. phase, but it's all like. it's all fleeting. You know what I mean? And so. the more times I've done it, the less. like weight it has with like dealing. with your body changing and you kind of. I don't you know normal people don't. have to like have the noise, but you're. sensitive. It's really hard. You look.

different, you know, forever. Um, you're. like feeding a child and you're supposed. to know exactly what to do and you don't. know exactly what to do and things don't. always work out. the way you know we're. the pressure to feel like a natural. mother like is is a lot you know um. >> you had mentioned I think that you um. like nursing for you in the beginning. was difficult. >> and again like as women if you if it.

doesn't go exactly as they tell you on. the internet and according to plan like. sometimes there can be like shame around. that like how did that impact your. self-esteem. I still could cry thinking about like h. just not being able to be. you want to be everything for your kid. because you grow them and you birth them. and they're yours and you watch you know. reals of like people just nursing their. baby in public and it being so. natural and like it just wasn't like.

that for me and I every time you like we. would like weigh this was with towns. mostly but like she wasn't gaining. weight and I'm trying to like nurse her. literally round the clock and that's my. fourth kid like just supplement. What. are you doing? Like you know and you're. just like I was so stubborn about it. I. just wanted I wanted it to work out and. it didn't. And like then you're 2 weeks. out of like not nursing and you're like. yes this is the best freedom ever. But.

in that moment you're like how will I. ever cope with this? How will I why. can't I be good at this? Um, and you. know, I Luca, I nursed him the most. It. was easier then and like down the line I. just each child got less and less and. less. And now I'm like, who cares? But. in in the moment, it's like you're so. consumed. And I think by design, right? Like we're designed to take care of our. child by feeding them from your body. But like guys have to do one thing one. time. That's what my husband says. He's.

like, [sighs and gasps] "I did one thing. one time and like you have to do all of. these things. >> and then it's all on you, which is a. lot." And I even have friends I know. that will be watching that are going. through that phase right now that it's. like it is helpful to hear from someone. so many people look up to and grew up. with that they're at a similar stage. right now where it's like hearing other. women talk about it I think is like half. the battle cuz it is so isolating and to. just hear you even say like it actually. got better as I just kept going cuz even. if it didn't actually get better I got. better at handling how hard it was um.

which is life right. >> speaking of hard things. So, you're in a. different place than your friends. You're a young mom. >> There's scrutiny online. Your body, you're figuring all this out. >> And then you go through a divorce. >> Yeah. >> And your child is. >> not even two. >> Not even two. >> Um, without obviously I know you have a. co-parenting dynamic and I don't want to. speak at all negatively about him. Um,

how did you know that it was time to. walk away and that the marriage was. over? >> Oh gosh. It just got to a point where it wasn't. gonna it wasn't going to be like we we. just. I think he was good with it because I. was like here's this this this like you. know and he was like great like we're. this was before conscious uncoupling was. a thing. and my parents went through such a bad. divorce that I was like.

calling it made it really painful. but like we're not together anymore so. obviously it was bad enough that it just. wasn't it wasn't working. Um, and. that was a really tough call because we. had not even 2-year-old kid. Um, and I. remember. doing everything in my power to like. have it be peaceful and have us hanging.

out and spending time together. And. every time we would, you know, trade, it. wouldn't just be like a drop off pickup. situation. and we would like go to the. park and hang or go have a meal. Um, it. was really important to me to to do it. in a way that Luca could. feel like comfy. Um, I can't remember. the exact time I was like going to call. this, you know, but um, it happened. pretty fast. It was just.

it was a like, you know, it was not it. wasn't working anymore. Mhm. >> But I remember the one thing that was. really hard about it was like processing. that it was happening and it was going. to happen and going through all of those. emotions and it was a really it was a. really scary time to just not want to. up your kid. You know what I mean? You put like all of your stuff aside and. I had to like deal with all of that. later to just make sure that like he was.

okay. And then you know you file for. divorce and TMZ literally has like an. office at the LA courthouse so they see. every single paper that goes through. So. like within. 50 minutes they're like reporting. and then you have to like process it. along the world alongside with the world. you know. >> I did not realize that about TMZ. That's. actually insane. >> Yeah. But like when do you think and how. did you do it in terms of like almost. like mourning.

what you thought your life was going to. look like I think is very relatable. And. then you kind of don't have control over. it. You had to make a decision for you. and your family and your kid. Like when. do you think you were able to actually. mourn that loss essentially? I haven't. ever thought about that. I think probably. when I started like dating again. Um and like my divorce was finalized and.

we were you know. co-parenting and stuff like I I think it. was just something. I I I had a lot of therapy like I that. was a very helpful tool to help like. confront the feelings that would come up. you know I was 26 27 no I was 27 28. And that's like such a crazy time, you.

know, like that's a very fun time of. your life. And I started to like allow. myself to. [gasps] have fun through something. really painful. And I feel like that's. actually a very heavy theme in my life. Like this record, there's a lot of like. heavy themes disguised as like joy. because it's pop music. And I feel like. that is a huge part of like how I. operate. Like this big thing can be. happening over here and it's really hard. and it's a struggle and I'm going to.

sort it out and sometimes I might push. it down and deal with it later or like. I'm going to be tackling it right now. But like I genuinely am like such a. happy person that I seem to be able to. like get through things. >> That's how you clearly survive those. hard moments, right? You're like I'm. going to choose to see the positive in. life to keep it moving. Also, I think I. knew from my parents' divorce that like. I was going to show my kid that you got. to like fight for your happiness. >> And I knew that it was going to be.

better to do it when he was younger than. it was going to be when he was like five. and aware or eight and aware. And then. kids put like a whole different. element of like guilt on themselves for. like their marriage not working out. I. was like, if Luca cannot remember this. and have two lives that exist. that he can be happy in and feel like. secure in, I think we're winning. >> Yeah. What do you think overall? Cuz I I. know you're saying you're a positive.

person, which I think is like a great. lesson for people, but for you, if. someone is going through a divorce right. now, like can you describe your lowest. moment and then how you got out of it. through that to anyone who's maybe at. that low point right now? one, you have to have a therapist. You. have to be talking. You have to be. processing the feelings. Um, and you have to stand up for yourself. I. think that was just the thing. I was. like, I have to just stand up for. myself. I have to.

um, and the same thing could have been. going on for him. You know what I mean? Like, so I'm not just like, oh, I up him. and left. Like, it was a collaborative. thing that needed to happen. Um, but you. you got to fight for yourself and it. doesn't matter that you have kids. Your. kids. your kids are going to be okay. You know. what I mean? You just have to. show them that like you also matter. I.

think that that was a big thing for me. is like when you have kids, you kind of. become so all consumed by them and they. get your everything. And. it was important for me to not. let that be a factor because a. 2-year-old can't decide. that and know what's you know what I. mean? So, >> it's really good advice. It's like you. matter too and actually by showing. >> but once you become a mom your guilt. becomes so thick that like you don't.

actually the there's like this part of. your brain where you're like yeah I'm. still in here and I'm still me and then. there's like this huge shadow over it. was like but everything for the family. and everything for your kid and you know. and and that's a good it's I think again. it's by design but it's a constant. conversation to like. choose yourself and choose something you. know that you enjoy outside of. family life and kids.

>> because eventually what you're also. showing them is like you're leading by. example cuz then they will choose. themselves hopefully if they're ever in. that situation cuz they're going to have. watched you do it. >> I think that's absolutely right. Like I. had to go drink a martini last night. instead of stay home with my family. >> It's just working a lot and I try to. still give them everything but like I. had to have that dirty martini last. night. >> Needed it. They're [laughter] not going. to blame you Hillary. I love it. Um, okay. So, you eventually start dating. You get out of this marriage. You start. dating. And then you eventually meet. your now husband. Should we call him.

Matthew? Matt? What should we call him? Matthew. Matt. Matt. >> I call him Matthew when I'm like talking. about him. I don't know why it feels so. sophisticated. >> Matthew. My husband's name is Matthew, too. Oh. >> Um, okay. How did you guys meet? >> We got set up from my ANR person. Uh, I. was at RCA for a nancond and my RCA, my. uh, ANR person there set us up on like a. work date. >> Okay. And was it an immediate connection. or was it like a slow burn?

>> It was pretty immediate, but like we. kept it response like we weren't like. outwardly flirting, but I was like, "Wait, this person's so fun to talk to.". And our meeting was like 2 hours long. I. know. And then I was like, "Oh my god, I've got to like got a child at home. I. have to go. Um, but we were just talking. like music and um, you know, taste and like I was a quarter. of the way through like making a record.

and it was just he was definitely cute. I was he and then I found out like a. month ago that he sent an email that he. found and sent it to me and he wrote his. manager and it was like two hours with. Hillary. I think I'm in love. [laughter]. You're like laughing but you're also. like I literally felt the same way but I. didn't put that in writing. >> Wait, that's amazing. I know. So you. both felt it immediately kind of. >> Yeah. And I think we were like flirty.

but not like. you know when there's just like a. pingpong like vibe that's happening but. you're not like. >> like is this person just like this fun. to talk to or like are they our. feelings? >> It was like that. And um. I was going to Sweden for like half a. month or something to work on some music. and he. we were like chatting during that time. and then I came home and were was like.

recording two songs that he had written. and there was a lot of he was very. sweet. I was like sick for one of them. and he had brought me like all these. like honeys and teas and cough drops. I. know. And then. >> and you guys hadn't hooked up at this. point yet? >> No. [clears throat]. >> Nope. We hadn't hooked up yet. And then. he asked me to be his Valentine. I know. But I already had plans with Luca and I. was like, "Sorry, I can't cuz I have a. date already." And then I just like took. a picture of Luca and sent it to him and. he was like, "Okay, I accept.".

>> Great. So, I think we had like a date. maybe a few days after or a week after. or something and it was great, but he. was so nice to me and I remember being. like a like after a few times we had. hung out was like he's just so nice. That's not really a thing. [laughter]. >> So, you thought it was like almost a red. flag that he was too nice? >> I think I was just like not ready to. accept all of that yet. I was like. coming out of that like a long.

relationship, a divorce, like I I was. just like chaotic. >> Yeah. >> I think I needed some chaos first. >> Yes. Meeting a nice guy that's actually. going to treat you well. You're like, "Wait, can you pause for two seconds? Let me get my together and. [laughter] I'll come back.". >> Yeah, totally. >> Okay. Wait, so who made the first move. move? >> Him. >> Okay. >> Then I broke up with him. >> Okay. Hold on. >> Okay. I feel like there's so much that. you guys have said, like very on and off. again. You broke up with him, then. didn't he break up with you? Like, can.

you kind of just take me through what. the hell happened? >> Yeah. So, um Okay. So, I don't know how. long we dated. Maybe like 3 months or. something. >> Okay. >> Really, honestly, we had a bunch of fun. during that time. Um and then I was. like, "Got to go. You need to go like. handle." He had some personal stuff he. needed to work on. >> I was like, "I have a child." Like I. don't know what excuse I use. Some. excuse. But I was like, "Sorry, I know. >> Bye. You're literally perfect. I got to. go.". >> Yeah, >> Hillary. Okay. [laughter].

[gasps]. >> So, that was like maybe. 6 months separation. And then what? How did we. Okay. He's also obsessed with. Do you know the band Jaws? No. >> Okay. Jaws is this amazing band. He. They're like his heroes and now they're. like his best friends because and ta. Taylor is married to Mandy Moore.

>> Okay. >> And I've known Mandy Moore my whole. life, but like we were never. >> running in the same like friend circles, but I would like see her like TRL or. like I know. So. >> throwback. >> know each other but like aren't really. friends. And so we hadn't spoken in a. long time and he texts me out of the. blue and he's like Taylor and Mandy. married and I was but we didn't know. them yet. We weren't friends with them. yet. He's just like creepy updating me. on their life cuz he's so obsessed with. Daws. And I like I will I will never.

forget I was pulling out of like a. grocery store parking lot and I almost. wrecked my car. I was like. >> wait am I actually getting this. >> text right now? >> Text right now and then it was like boom. boom boom boom boom boom boom. >> We're back. >> We're back baby. Oh. >> yeah. And then um we were together for. like 3 months. Things were like very surface and I. didn't like that. I was like I need. I think maybe cuz I broke up with him. He was like is she.

>> stable enough? Like I don't know. [gasps]. And I think coming from like also. a broken household, I was like, "Let me. push this guy and try to poke all the. holes in it that I can to see if he's. going to like stick around." Do you know. what I mean? >> Relatable. Yes. And um. so we go to New York. and I'm I'm like on a work trip and I.

it was like a wine event where I had to. like basically drink wine all day and. like host like a dinner party. Like not. a dinner party but like a garden rooftop. party. >> Oh my god, what a great. >> So fun. Except for like you know those. press days where you like basically. don't eat. >> Yes. And then you're drinking. >> and you're just talking to people and. you're like working but. >> Yes. >> You're like by the end I was like I am. >> you're seeing stars. >> Two sheets to the wind. >> Yes. >> Yes. And then we go to dinner and it was. like an omocas and I had like had more. wine. Whatever. I pick up some fight. We.

get into it. I don't even know exactly. what I said, but he left the next. morning. I know. Yes. >> Just up and left. >> Uh-huh. No. I mean, we like had a. discussion and he was like, "Bye.". >> Mhm. He left. like he kind of like hit. me with his bag on the way out the door. and left the door open. We were in the. Grunnidge We were at the Grunnidge hotel. and the doors don't like automatically. close there. >> So, it's like an awkward like. >> and I was like, "Did you just leave the. door open?". He's [gasps] like at the elevator. literally. I know.

>> the drama. Like, I'm leaving. You left. me once. I'm leaving you. It's my turn. >> I think that it leveled the playing. field in a really good way. But then he. wouldn't speak to me cuz he's a crazy. Gemini. And I was like, I just want a. moment to like say I'm a Libra. I need. balance. That was like a crazy night. when I really that's not really like who. I am. So, I was just like, I want to. genuinely like say sorry. You don't have to like this is not me. like pleading to get back with you. I. need to like just make it right and like. genuinely like apologize, whatever.

Wouldn't speak to me. Then that made me. mad and I was like literally it's been a. week. A week. And then I text him and I. was like, "Your guitars will be at the. guard gate. Pick them up at this time.". [laughter]. He must have gotten them. We didn't. really like talk. Whatever. And then he. words with friends me like a few months. later. >> You're lying to me right now. >> And I was like, "Wait, again, almost. wrecked my car. Was so excited.". >> Wait, words with friends is also Why did. I also have that with an ex where we. would like kind of communicate that way.

and you're like, "What are we doing? Just pick up the phone and call. each other.". >> I know. But it's kind of fun. >> It is. you got the notification. >> He was so good with words that I was. like I mean obviously I always get beat. >> right but you're like okay here we go. >> Yeah. And that was right before my 30th. birthday. So he was like at my 30th. birthday was which was so nice. And it. was like this really lovely moment where. I like looked around my party and I was. like everyone that is here like means so. much to me and has been like such an.

important part of my. story and my like growing you know and. it's not like a 70th birthday but 30 is. a big deal you know so it was nice he. was he was there for that and then. literally. we were we were going away where's the. place with all the red canyons like in. Utah or something. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um. >> Aman. >> The Aman. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, we were there and I remember on the. way back we're on the airplane. I was. like, "When do you want to have kids?". And he was like, "Probably like 35." And.

then I was pregnant like 2 months later. And I was like, "Gotcha." Oh, wow. Okay. Wait. I feel like one of the themes in. your album is abandonment wounds. >> Mhm. and to have this be on and off. again and then to finally realize like. this is your person and he realized you. are my person like how did you work. through those wounds because it's hard. and I I feel like a lot of women. listening will be like wait honestly I. think what worked was me just trusting. him and that's just time really a lot of.

time obviously three pregnancies is a. lot on a relationship and especially one. or like I feel like I come with a a lot. of like baggage and um. I think just that he's willing to like. really be there and shelter. my emotions and my story and um he just.

kept showing up over and over and I was. like cool that once I could get through. that like now we get to really have like. the fun you know what I mean like. because. >> I just fully trust him. And that was so. hard to get to that place. Um, and there was no secret recipe, but just. time and trusting my gut that like I. made a good decision and that it's real. and that like a person actually just. cares about me.

>> Like it's really hard to accept that for. some reason. >> But how beautiful that you then he. proved it. >> Yeah. Over and over again. like he's. just he's so. he rides really hard. >> and it's really cute. Um you were pretty. candid about saying like you didn't know. if you wanted to get married again after. everything you had been through. Like. how did you change your mind? >> Well, I always knew I wanted more kids. Um and I knew he'd be an amazing dad. once I finally introduced him to Luca.

He I think he it was around Halloween. and he like showed up as like headtotoe. ninja turtle. I know. And I was like, "Oh my god, >> that's [laughter] really cute. >> That's so cute.". >> He's leaning in. >> He leaned in and he was just really. really patient knowing that I was like. not ready to introduce him for a long. time. When we became parents to banks, that was a big I was like, "Oh, we're. good at this. this feels right. And then.

I always knew he wanted to get married. and he's like kind of a traditional guy. like that. And. I don't remember when the time was, but. I always would be like, "We can get. married at 60. We'll we can be like old. and all of our kids can be there." And. he would be like, "Okay." You know, he. wasn't like ever asking me, but we would. talk about it sometimes. And then. randomly we were in New York shooting. younger and. uh. I.

sent him a picture of a ring that I. really liked and I was like maybe I. could see this on like my young cute. hand and not my like old 60-year-old. hand. And then he proposed like two. months later. So sweet. Call Her Daddy. is brought to you by Pandora Jewelry. All right. Celebrate your unique story. with Pandora jewelry crafted with. meaning and exquisite artistry. Daddy. gang, Pandora really comes through when.

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ways and constantly change it up. It is. truly so special to wear something that. actually means something to you. I feel. like every time if I look down at it, I'm like, "Oh, I'm smiling. This makes. me think of Matt, right? cuz he gave me. it. Um, I'm also super into being able. to personalize anything that I'm. wearing, especially engravings. Like, how cute would it be to have Henry and. Bruce's names engraved on a necklace. Matt? Matt, are you watching? Take. notes. Every day is a chance to be love. Let Pandora Jewelry remind you that love.

starts with you. Shop in store or online. at Pandora.net. Listen, Daddy Gang, winter is here. I. know it's freezing out there and I know. the sun is setting insanely early, but. hear me out. Just because we have to. throw a couple extra layers on doesn't. mean we can't still enjoy ourselves, right? And that includes finding some. time to crack a few claws with our. friends. Whether you're at your favorite. dive bar, warming up in the crowd at a.

concert, or just having friends over to, you know, watch a football game, the. best winter nights are really just about. doing something together. Personally, I. love getting together with my friends in. the winter because it's an excuse to. make every hangout even cozier. I'm. talking blankets out, fuzzy socks on, and white claws in hand. There is. nothing better than sitting by a fire. with your friends catching up all night. long and never leaving the house. So. pick up a pack from your favorite local.

spot and grab life by the claw with your. favorite flavor this winter. Please. drink responsibly hard seltzer with. flavors. White Claw Seltzer Works. Chicago, Illinois. Not only are you guys husband and wife, but you're also collaborators and. business partners. I want to ask about. your new song, Roommates, which, you. know, it talks about losing the spark. and intimacy in a relationship. What was. it like working on this together? One,

he doesn't shy away from like heavy. topics that are. uncomfortable when it comes to. songwriting. Of course, we're like a. normal couple. So, like there's I love. the like opening line of the song. It's. like I can barely mention it without. causing some ego trauma. And it's like. he's a man and they all are. And like. even if the tables were turned, like. it's hard to be in a relationship with. someone and like call out something. that's not working if like for the most. part it's good, but you're like we're I.

feel really stuck right now. like I'm. not feeling. the way that I want this to feel or. whatever. So, it's like it's hard. because it feels like an attack. So, like it's just hard to have. communication that is healthy, helps you. get what you need or want without like. bruising the other person, especially in. a family where like you're working. overtime to make everyone's needs met. and just make the household float, you.

know? Um, and I don't want to always. like relate it to a family because. everybody gets in that, you know what I. mean? Like anybody in a long-term. relationship or even something that's. like 6 months where it was like really. sparky in the beginning starts to like. life starts to feel normal and you're. like, "Wait, I missed that thing." Um, right. It's like it almost has somehow. become like people get like shy or. embarrassed to admit like guys everyone. feels it when you're in a long-term.

relationship or again like the honeymoon. stage is over. Every I would say. long-term relationship goes through a. moment where. >> there's a shift in intimacy, right? And. to actually maintain a healthy long-term. relationship, you have to first. acknowledge that's going to happen and. not just like leave when it's not. working. But then you also have to talk. about it which is the awkward part. you're kind of saying because like it is. so uncomfortable to be like can we talk. about our sex life and like one person. is wanting it more or one person's.

wanting it less or one person's. initiating more and like that's the most. vulnerable I think one of the most v. vulnerable things that you can. >> talk about with a partner. >> I know. >> but once you open the door to that. conversation. >> it is lifechanging and it doesn't I. don't mean it's like easy every time but. like do you have advice going through. this writing process, going through it. together, and talking this through for. anyone who is like, "How do you navigate. those conversations and not have it lead. to a fight or someone's feelings getting.

hurt? [sighs]. [gasps]. It's just like being a healthy. communicator and being able to like I. think one of the things I struggled with. and where like roommates kind of came. from was like it wasn't even necessarily. like his problem. I was having a hard. time asking for what I needed or being. like. um. being. in a place where I was like.

felt like I couldn't like share or like. was like ashamed of. the the like needs that I had, you know? Um I think it's just. being able to like be open and not and. not like blame someone. Like. communicating without blame is like a. really is like an art form. >> quite literally. >> Yeah, >> that's a great point. Yeah, that's it's. almost like. >> sometimes it has nothing to do with your. partner. It's actually like all on you.

of like this is something I've been. thinking about and now I need to make. sure that when I'm saying this, it's. coming out in a way that's not I wish. you would or it's actually like I need. and I I want. And that starting from. that place is such a healthier place to. communicate it. So they're not. immediately shut down and feeling backed. into a corner like they're doing. something wrong, which is beautiful. >> Also, I think that women have like such. intuition and such a.

oh, what's the word I'm looking for? Like s like just you're just in tune. You just know. And I remember calling. his mom and being like, why doesn't he. know? >> I know. every woman in the world like. why don't you know and they're like I. don't know but if you tell me I'll fix. it. >> right and it's so simple but you're like. I don't want to have to tell you. >> how don't you just know exactly what I'm. feeling. >> making more work for me to have to tell. you. >> they're like. >> she literally like I forget what some of. the postits would say but she'd be like. babe put a post-it up and just remember.

you got to you got to tell him you got. to ask for what you need you have to. whatever I know and then it made things. so much better when I was like stop when. I didn't expect him to just know. >> Yeah. It's like we want them to be able. to read our minds, but like they can't. And so once you just start. communicating, it's so much easier. >> But then you're already coming from a. place of being annoyed that you're like, I've been suffering. >> It's like, I didn't even know that. >> You didn't notice. >> They're like, no, >> talk. Say something. >> Um the lyrics also in the song reference.

porn and masturbating. And. >> it was pretty crazy to see the way some. of the internet responded. I know people. were like, some people were absolutely. shocked and outraged that you were. speaking about these things. How did it. make you feel to see that some people. really were still expecting you to. present in this squeaky clean child star. image that they watched you as a young.

girl have? Well, I think that pro probably my. initial reaction was like, "Oh, they. just haven't like evolved. yet, you know, >> because and I don't care at all." One of. the craziest comments that I saw was. like, "And do you do that in front of. your children?" And I was like, "No." [laughter]. What? Are you okay? No. But guess what? Like, the song is meant to be. polarizing. It's not meant to like be.

runchy or like get attention because of. what I'm saying. Like it's a it's a plea. and like I think that's relatable to. women. And so, you know, I have never. given head in the back of a dive bar. Sadly, there's always time, but it's. going [laughter] to happen. >> But you get to take like like lyrical. like liberties when you're writing a. song and you're creating art. And it was. it was important for me that the song. felt like very polarizing because that's.

that's how it feels in in a moment of a. of a lull in a relationship where you're. just like I need. I need to sort this out. I need to get. through this. I can't keep feeling this. way. Um and yeah, so yeah, it was really. wild to see some of the I think for the. most part it was good, but then of. course like all the. >> comments that stand out to you are the. negative ones. And also funny because I. feel like from the internet what I saw. was at first it was all positive and.

then as people like really started to. dissect the lyrics and had like more. time to sit on it, they're like, "Did. she say masturbate? Did she say porn?". And everyone's like, "Hillary Duff said. the word porn." And everyone's like, it's almost like just like the. bandwagon. It's like so fun for them and. easy to just like get on it and be like, "Yeah, that's kind of crazy." I what I. also took from it. >> or like, "Do your kids sing that?" And. I'm like, "I'm not making music for my. kids. I'm not making music for. seven-year-olds. I'm making music for. myself. I'm making music for people like.

myself. So, you know, I was singing. crazy lyrics when I was young, too, that. I had no idea what they meant. And if I. was like, I'm not making a children's record. >> Again, I think there's an image people. have of you being a child star that they. that's like on them. It's not on you. Um, I also thought it was ironic that, you know, they're so shocked that you're. singing about sex as an adult, but then. when you rewind as a teenager, you had. reporters asking you, "Have you lost.

your virginity?" And, "Are you sleeping. around?" So, it's like it's it's never. Women can never win. It wasn't. appropriate when you were underage that. people were asking you these things. And. now that you have autonomy and you're an. adult, people are now so fixated on. like, "How dare you talk about sex?" And. it's like, >> wait, >> what do you want from me? She's four. kids. Do you guys think that she doesn't. have sex? >> It's immaculate conception every time. >> How though do I'm uh curious people. having always something to say about you. and your sexuality and whether it was.

your virginity or your hooking up and. then now like how has that impacted your. sexuality? I don't think it like impacted my. relationship with sex, but I think it's. just been another one of those things. that comes along with my career that I. didn't really ask for and I've had to. learn how to just accept. Um, but it was. really hard as a young girl because I. was like. coined the good girl. and everybody was like, "She's the good.

girl. She's the good girl." and like. just having to label someone and then do. everything they could to try to poke. holes in that label or try to figure out. any. thing they could that was like somewhat. negative or bad. you know, it was like. the create they were just trying to. create stories and it was hard to be. like. one, okay, I've been labeled the good. girl, like but I'm also.

just normal doing all the normal things. that teenagers are doing. Um, and trying to just kind of exist without. accepting those things to be true about. myself, maybe. um or. having any sort of like privacy I think. was just like really hard. And yeah, I. remember that time that person like. asked me if I was a virgin and I was. like.

I think also as a child actor you're. conditioned to like want to give people. what they want, you know? So like. answering something like that felt like. really wild. >> Wait, did you answer? >> I don't remember. I don't remember. I. just remember. it being said and it was like a stir of. like publicists and like a crazy, you. know, this like so inappropriate. >> beyond and yeah, >> that stuff I don't think flies anymore. >> No. Um, but yeah, it was definitely in.

in the middle of that like crazy press. time where people would ask you. whatever. >> And that's why I'm so happy that you're. taking your own liberty of like I am. going to talk about things in my life. and it's okay if everyone doesn't want. to accept it, but don't just not accept. it because of an image you have of me as. a young girl because that's actually. just weird. >> Yeah. You have a song also called We. Don't Talk. And you kind of basically. say, "Don't know when it happened. Not. even sure what it was about, which is.

weirdly really relatable. I think it. kind of seems like you're talking about, and correct me if I'm wrong, like when a. relationship falls apart." And when you. have time away from it, you look back, you're like, "Wait, why did we lose. touch or how did that exactly go down?". Um, >> how do you approach those type of. dynamics in your own life? Like are you. the person that will reach out or do you. kind of retreat and. not try to mend something if it's. broken? >> I will reach out. >> You do? >> Mhm. >> Have you had to do that a lot in your. life? >> Yes.

>> Has it always felt like, oh, you made. the right decision or have you been kind. of bitten in the ass ever? I think I get bitten in the ass. sometimes when it doesn't unfold the way. that I would like I was hoping. Mhm. But. I think that. um. I think one thing that I appreciate. about myself is that I will always try. and I like always try to keep a heart. open and like a heart forward and try.

and that like as a 38-year-old who's. like navigated the industry since I was. 9 years old makes me feel like healthy, you know, like it's easy to get jaded. and and and really rough around the. edges and I don't feel like I am. >> Yeah, [clears throat]. obviously you are a very public person. so people are constantly trying to. dissect your lyrics. Um but a lot of. people have been thinking that this.

could be about a family member of yours. >> How do you feel when you see those. things online? Um, I think there was no way for me to make. a record after 10 years and not. dig into what those 10 years have looked. like, you know, and like the the. big things that have happened and that. affect me and that make me who I am. And. um,

and unfortunately, a lot of that has. been like not great stuff. And that's. life. Um, it sucks that I'm not an adult. coming up coming out with an album that. people don't know my story and all the. players in it. You know, people have. known everybody in my life since I was. on Lizzie Magcguire. You know, they know. my mom, my sister, my dad. Like, we have. a small family. People are interested in. that for some reason. Um, and it's.

really. sad, you know, the the kind of like. where where we are right now. Um, and scary to share it because of like. the internet, but important for me like I'm just. saying how it feels for me. And that was. something on the record I really tried. to accomplish is like not placing blame. anywhere. Takes a lot of people for it.

takes everybody involved, you know, to. to for things to kind of be where they. are. Um, but I was just trying to talk. about how it feels like for me and and. reach people because it's real and a lot. of people share the a similar story and. um. yeah, know it's never easy to see people. speculating on your life for clicks. Um,

but it's easier to tune the noise out. with like. having the household that I have and the. that like soft landing and that all the. love and, you know, I've created that. family I'm so proud of. Like. that makes. all of the things that I've been through. like Okay. >> Yeah. when you put out songs like that, like were you do you has it felt. cathartic and kind of like chapter close. or are you hoping it could maybe like.

spark some type of like reconciliation. or conversation? My. purpose was for making my record was for. myself. and. I think that. like you always hope for something to be. healthy again, you know, and something. to be good again. Um, but I don't know if like. I don't know if my me being honest and.

vulnerable will, you know, be met with openness or anger. or what it could, you know, there's many. different options there. And I think I. had to just let go of an expectation and. do what I wanted for me. And um. and that's that, you know, it's a it's a. painful thing to talk about. Yeah. >> It kind of reminds me almost of like you. earlier in the interview said, "God, I I.

do love doing this so much, but I do. love my life and the privacy." And it's. almost like, >> well, I don't know if you've noticed, but like even since I started like. being more like forward- facing with my. music, like the internet is like a buzz. with like everything they can possibly. dig up. So, it's. >> it's a lot. >> Very strange. >> I have a list of things that I'm like, Like, you've been a hot topic of. conversation, Mis. Like, you have been.

I'm like, okay, so we go through the. family thing now. One of literally the. noisiest things on the internet, that's. why I have to ask just because it's been. so freaking noisy. It's been everywhere, is an article was written about a toxic. mom group and it literally took the. internet by storm and every single. person was talking about it and then. through speculation and then people. connecting the dots like it kind of was. >> I don't really think people had to. connect very many dots. >> It took like a day, not even, right? >> Um, how did you feel when it came out.

and when you read it? Um, I felt really sad. I honestly felt. really sad. I was like. pretty. pretty taken aback. and felt just like sad. Like. I love I have I have so many groups of. friends. I'm so lucky. motherhood has. brought on like I have my like core.

group of friends who have been my ride. or dies for 20 years, 10 to 20 years, and I have like tons of different groups. of mom friends because I have four kids, you know? So, um I think I just was. like, wo, it sucks to read something. that's like not true and it sucks on. behalf of like six women in all of their. lives. >> Then the pot got stirred a little bit. more. Our boy Matthew. >> Yes. posted an Instagram story kind of. then addressing back to it. Did you know.

he was going to post this? >> No. >> How did you [laughter] feel when you. opened your phone and hubby had chimed. in? >> Honestly, everything he does makes me laugh. So, I was like, "Oh my god. Oh my god.". But I also don't censor him and I don't. tell him what he can and can't post. Um.

he [snorts]. is so like fierce for me. and like I love him for that. >> Um is there anything on that that you. want to clarify because obviously all. the rumors and everything and like you. have been in the center of it like is. there anything else you want to just. like clarify on that topic? >> No. >> Okay. I think it came at like the craziest. time where I was like my like the timing. felt not great and I felt used like.

would this have happened had you not had. your big resurgence and everything going. on with you? Okay, moving on. Um, okay. Like we've talked about 10 years since. you released an album. So, I'm curious. If you were to picture your dream life. 10 years from now, what would it look. like? >> Wa. Cool. Okay. Anytime I look into the future, I.

like to think about Thanksgiving. >> and like what the table looks like. >> Are you hosting? >> Always. >> Okay. 10 years. It's November. You're. hosting. What does it look like? like. like. my kids have their like boyfriend or. girlfriend there or like bestie or what? Like it's just full. The table's full. The like the seats are full. We're going to play like some dumb game. later. We're drinking wine. Like it's. just,

you know, everyone's there. And so. I would like to have toured the world. maybe twice. Um probably made another record. Um and like figured out a way to juggle. like having this and also. having home life still be. like I can't it's so fun to watch my. kids grow up. Like it's just the best.

thing ever. I love having babies and. it's really hard to think about not. having a baby in the house anymore, but. like as they grow, they just get so. cool. So, I think I just hope to. continue having. the relationship that I have with my. kids and the home life that I have. >> Um, but like I think I'll work. I'll work forever. Everyone's always like, "What about the. Lizzie Magcguire reboot?" And I'm like,

like, it's not interesting to me at like. 40. It was interesting to me at like 30, but like maybe it's interesting at like. 55 or 60, you know? Like, I don't know. Maybe I'm. doing that. >> Listen, none of us are going to be mad. at you. We're like we're ready whenever. you're ready. We're like, we'll be we'll. be seated. >> Also, I would love to have more time to. just like do the things I want with. Matt. Like, we get very little time. Prioritize your relationship. >> Yeah,

>> we talk about that a lot. >> Well, if I see you in 10 years, I'm. gonna be like, did you do these things? >> What are you guys doing? >> I interview you like the day after. Thanksgiving. 10 years from now, we'll. put on the books. Um, >> how, if you have any, could you share. some advice on I know you can't do it. all, but we are sitting here and like. you've had such a successful career. >> You are continuing to have such a. successful career and you have four. kids. And I think there's probably a lot. of women that are looking at you being. like, it does kind of seem like you have. it all and you're doing it all. And.

like, do you have any advice to women. who maybe want to get back into work but. are afraid how you manage that with the. kids and all of it? >> One, I think that was like a huge why. for making this record was to inspire. I. know people aren't pop stars. Not not. everybody gets to be a pop star. And I'm. like eternally grateful that for some. reason this was my position in life. But. I do hope that it inspires moms to. get outside of their household a little.

bit and like find the thing that they. love if they've lost it. Um. I think it's so important to not be. there for your kids every waking moment. I think it's so important for them to. have like wins and losses out in the. world alone that you're not like privy. for for everything. And that like breaks. my heart to say because I like love to. be there for all of their things, but. like I think it's healthy and I've. learned that with having four kids cuz. you obviously can't be everywhere all at.

once. Um and you just have to be like, "Okay, I was there for that thing that. day. I'm choosing this thing this day. and I've got, you know, it's like you. got to make those choices." Um, but I. feel like my kids are stronger because. of it. And um, I never want them to feel guilty for. growing up and like leaving me behind. I don't I want to be okay with like. >> that is like made me like sad and happy. at the same time. That almost made me. cry. That's really.

>> Yeah. >> Wow. And I think that if you like don't. find yourself and stay true to like your. some of your needs, you know, then like. they eventually leave and you want them. to leave and be okay, you know? >> Like I don't have kids yet, but that's. like a big fear of mine, right? I think. so many women are probably watching. right now cuz it's like. >> you don't want to lose yourself. >> Yeah. But then the guilt of leaving them. and it's like it's so everpresent for. women whether they're in the middle of.

it or they're expecting to go through. it. So to hear you be like guys I'm. actually living it and like. >> you got to let them go. >> Yeah, you do. >> And then the other thing that I like. want to set straight a little bit is. like I. it you can't have it all. You just. can't. You can try and you can have a. lot of the things that you want, but. you're going to miss stuff, you know, and you're going to have to make. choices. And. I feel.

so incredibly grateful for everybody. behind the scenes of my life right now. helping me achieve this. It is like. I have nannies and an assistant and like. hair and makeup people keeping me. looking, you know, not like how I look. when I wake up in the morning and my. husband and a label and a huge machine. behind me that's like making this Megan. Trainer text me the other day and she's.

like, "Babe, you this roll out has been. flawless. Are you okay?" And I'm like, and I have so much help, but it's like. still so much, you know? It's just like. a crazy, you don't see what goes on behind the. scenes cuz it all looks so shiny and. it's like has to, I guess. But like it's. really hard and everyone's taken. sacrifices for it, you know, including. my kids. >> No, I appreciate you saying that cuz I. think you're right. It's like. your life does look like a dream right.

now. And it's like you're shiny and. sparkly and gorgeous and all of it. And. it's like no to the women out there like. yes, I'm living my dream, but it comes. at a cost. And it's hard. >> Comes at a huge cost. >> Yeah. >> Being in the industry comes with a huge. cost and it's so hard to complain when. your life looks shiny and you have. money, you know, >> completely. But I also appreciate you. just letting us into because it's like. again I think we compare ourselves to. women we see online because I'm like.

okay so she's got four kids and she's. able to do this and and then you're like. guys no no no no like only because I. have a crew and a team and assistants. and this and it's like breaking that. barrier and that wall I think also helps. women who maybe are doing it as a single. mom alone who can't afford the. assistant. It's like you've got the. hardest job and we bow down to you. Seriously. >> bow down to them. Okay, last question. Your fans have stuck by your side for. decades. What do you hope you're able to connect.

with them over in this new era that. you're presenting to the world? One, I just want to say I'm eternally. grateful for them. I would not have a. music career without them. I was not. like accepted by the music industry by. any stretch of the imagination. They. were rabid for me and my music and like. I was of course Lizzie Magcguire being. that launching pad and them like loving. me from that. I'm so grateful.

Of course I had my feelings of having to. like accept that part of my life. But. I'm so like I love her now too and I. connect and I get it, you know. But like. when I got into music, the fans like I. was, you know, doing like arenas and and. stuff like that was and I didn't really. have a ton of radio play and I didn't. have like it just wasn't a thing yet. that like actors could just become. musicians. Like I'm just so.

appreciative that like my music. connected with people and like had legs. for 20 years and then I get to. be at a point now in my life where I'm. I can like see. what it meant to them and to me. And um. and then just getting to like not be shy. about like not I'm not reintroducing. myself at all. I think I just needed.

like a second to like live some life and. like they lived a whole bunch of life. and now we get to like connect as. adults. and talk about what the hell. that's like. >> Thank you so much for opening up today. I know we went on like a winding. journey. >> Oh, really? We were in the canyon, babe. >> We were. We went everywhere and more. And I think um again, like having had. you take a break for a while, coming. back, like it's so fun to hear about.

your adult life. I know we did. nostalgia, but like I really appreciate. you sharing more about what's been going. on recently because it is so informative. to this album. And I'm so. [clears throat] excited for everyone to. hear it and to embrace it with open arms. and not look at you as this child star, but this woman who has this beautiful. family and a career and that is beyond. relatable to my audience for sure. So, thank you for opening up and letting us. have a little glimpse into your life and. everything that's inspired this amazing. album. >> Thank you, >> Hillary. Thank you for coming, Uncle or.

Daddy. [music]. [music].