Halsey: Power Dynamics & Toxic Relationships (Full Episode)

What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your. founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call. Her Daddy. Halsey, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Thanks for having me. I am so happy that. we're finally doing this. I feel like. I've been waiting to meet you for so. long. me, too. So, thank you for coming. Of course. Um, I realized that some of. the Daddy Gang may not know that your. legal name is Ashley and Halsey is a. stage name. Yeah. What do the people closest to you.

call you? Ash. Ash. Everyone calls me Ash. My son just. started calling me Ash. I was like, you. better. get it together. I'm mommy to you, okay? It's like, I'm going to start I'm going. to make him a shirt and make myself a. shirt that says, "Call me mommy." Like. I'm obsessed. like he goes, "Ash." I'm like, "Mhm.". He goes, "Well, I want to call you Ash.". I'm like, "Well, you can't.". Well, you can't. I'm mother. I don't know how to explain it to him in. a way that doesn't sound like so. like psychotically like you have to.

respect me and give me this name. Like, there's no way to explain it. Like, he's. like, "Why can't I call you Ash if. everyone else does?" I'm like, "That's a. great question.". No, it's not. But, I just don't like it. But, I also think it's like the rite of. passage, like when you become a parent. You're like, "Give me at least like 10. years of calling me like mom and mommy. and then. Right. You can call me Ash later. Like, it's like it's so funny. Yeah, it's it's. crazy. Is it weird if anyone in your life would. like refer to you as Halsey? Some people. do. Like, I think it's kind of. interchangeable at this point. I mean, I.

like answer to it the same way as if it. was my name. It feels the same in my. body. It does. You know, like it feels like it's like. it registers the same emotionally as if. someone says Ash or Ashley. Have you ever looked at it like it's an. alter ego? Yeah, recently, yeah. Okay. mean to when I started. It was just a. name because my name's Ashley Frangipane. and like you can't. you can't be Frangipane, you know, I. mean. You have You have to say it in your New. Jersey accent. is Ashley Frangipane. So, you know, there was no That wasn't.

happening. So, it was just supposed to. be like an easy like moniker. Yeah. And then, yeah, I would say like a. couple years ago, I started having. thoughts like that were like, "Oh, that's very Halsey." Or like, "I dress. like this when I'm Ash, and then I dress. like this when I'm Halsey." And then I. kind of was like, "Whoa, when did I. start differentiating between the two? Like, when did they become two separate. things?". freaky or no? Kind of. Yeah, cuz I was kind of like, "How did it happen?". What is the difference between Halsey.

and Ashley? Like, give us an example. Hm, well, you know what's funny is I. think Ashley is like. like. when I'm Ash, like I'm definitely way. more I think masculine. Okay. than when I'm Halsey. And. I'm not really certain like where that's. kind of started to divert, you know what. I mean? Like, when I'm home, like I'm. like a I'm like a boy clothes, short. hair, like not to like gender clothes, but like, you know what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm definitely. kind of.

I think that Ash is like less. um provocative. Like, I'm very like. chill. I'm very patient. You know what I. mean? Like, very like Mhm. um maternal. And then, I feel like. Halsey, a lot of people have this idea. that I'm like really provocative and. like, you know, I'm like always like. yapping. I'm a big yapper. Halsey's a. yapper. Ash is not so much a yapper. Have you ever become like a little. resentful of the persona that you've. created? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Definitely. I.

think that the part part of the problem. though is that like, you know, uh people. just kind of decide who you are based on. like when they got to know you. You know. what I mean? Like, I've been seeing a. lot of that happening like every now and. then like I'll see like. a comment under like a picture of like. me and my partner and someone's like, "I. thought she was dating blah blah blah.". And it's like someone from like 6 years. ago. And I'm like, oh, your update. And. like I don't expect everyone to know. everything about me that's going on in. any given moment, but like they just. locked in something from like a big.

press moment or like a time when I was. like really on or like they were reading. about me a lot and they were like, well, that's who you are forever. And I'm. like, whoa, it's been like six years. So. much has happened. That's like kind of a. mindfuck mentally to be like, no, no, no, I've progressed and grown, but you. guys see this persona that like was very. there in your minds and it never grew. and I've like fully grown as a human. being and yet Halsey is just like almost. like stuck in time for people, which I. think a lot of celebrities or performers.

have that like and everyone decides when. they want to grow with their performer. or not. Like it's [ __ ] confusing. How would you describe your relationship. to fame? I'm kind of indifferent at this point. I. used to be like it used to be not that. way. It used to be just torturous. You. know what I mean? Like I I will say like. it never really felt normal. It still. doesn't. Like I've I've been doing this. for like 11 years. You would think at this point that I. would just be like, yeah, I'm famous. I. know, that is not how it is. I like.

still wake up every day. and not in the like I wake up every day. and I'm like, oh my god. It's more like. I wake up every day and I'm like, what. the [ __ ] You know what I mean? And I. think that I also like I've kept like a. lot of really normal people around me. and. you know what? Actually, that's the. distinction. That's when the distinction. started happening. Was that was that. when I started to become like a. celebrity? Like the distinction between Halsey and. Ashley I think is very much that like. Ashley stayed the same, you know? We're.

like when I'm out with my friends, like. my best friend Erica, um she's been my. best friend since I was like 13 and. she's like she says to me like. once a month or like a couple times a. month like we'll be out somewhere doing. something and someone will be like, oh, can I get a picture? There's like a. paparazzi there's like whatever?" And. she'll be like, "Dude, I like just. forget you're famous every day." That's. the best. forget all the time. And she's like. lived with me, she's been around for. like every step of the journey. She's. like backstage at the VMAs with me, and. then like the next day she's like, "I.

forgot you're famous." I'm like, "How. you We were at the VMAs yesterday. How. did you forget?" And she's like, "You. just are still so You're the exactly the. same as you were, you know what I mean?". I do think like that's so important to. have though, because at the end of the. day like all these people that are. famous, it You're famous for like. something that you're really good at, obviously. Some people are just famous. because they're famous, but like. Sure. you are so talented, and your. talent has made you famous, of course. But with that like you are just still a. human being that like. Totally. likes to sleep, and likes to.

eat, and likes to chill with friends. And so I think having those like friends. around you must still make you feel like. the person from New Jersey that was just. growing up and like had a talent. Mhm. I think that's helpful to have. When do you feel most like yourself? Like what would you be doing? Um. Well, I'm pretty boring. Okay. I didn't used to be. I I like I. got it out of my system, you know what I. mean? Like I I had like a couple years. where I look back on and I like cringe. into like a black hole when I see those. photos, or like But I'm also really.

grateful for them, cuz I just like did. it in a contained set of years, and then. I'll never have to do it again. So like. now I'm just boring. Like No, you're not. boring, but I know what you're talking. about. I think we all have that where. we're like. Yeah. "What was I doing?" Like what What. would you say you did that was cringe? Oh my god, there's like so many pictures. of me just like. [ __ ] up, like leaving a club, like. like paparazzi, like it's like 3:00 in. the morning. I'm like, "What are you. doing?" But also I was like 22, you know.

what I mean? So when I see that I'm a. gentle with myself about it. But like Or. like times where I like. I don't know, there's stuff that's like. maybe cringe, but also maybe part of me. I'm a little bit like. go off. Like, you know, where like I. like I I clapped back at someone or I. like, you know, like I went off or. something like that. And like I see that. and I'm like, "Gosh, you were so angry. and so confused and so like overwhelmed. and like you had no one to help you.". So, I have like a lot of compassion for. that version of me. But then there's. also times where I'm like, "Girl, shut.

up." You know, where I'm like, "Shut. up." No, I think that's like no matter. if you're famous or not, like people can. look back at old Facebook photos and be. like, "What was I up to?" Totally. was going on there, Alex? But then at. the end of the day, you're like, "Well, I was [ __ ] young and like I was. having, I think, a good time.". I didn't go to college, you know what I. mean? So, I didn't have like those. years. And it's funny, the same like I. feel like the same people who will pass. judgment for like photos of me in like. my 20s, like not even in my 20s, like at. 20, you know, cuz I was 19 when I wrote.

my first album. And. you know, there's like pictures of me. from that time and people are like, "Ugh, gosh." Like and I feel like. there's this almost indication of like. no class. And I'm like, "What if I were. at like a university and like these. pictures were just like on Facebook or. like whatever and I was just like going. at like you would just consider that a. natural part of me like finding myself. and like, you know, but because there's. this extra set of expectations, I think. there's like a separate judgment that's. passed. And like I try to I try to like.

contextualize it that way and be like, "Girl, you would have been doing the. same thing if you stayed in Jersey, if. you went to Rutgers, you know, what I. mean?" Like. you may. have been worse, actually. Like I would. say if you went to Rutgers, you would. have been like face up on a keg stand. Like you would have had pictures of you. on the keg stand. Like it would have. been similar if not worse. Um, how do. you choose what to keep private and what. to put into your art and your music? Um.

I don't know that I really. choose. Okay. I think it kind of I just like write. what I'm feeling. There's a song on this. album called Hurt Feelings and it's. about my dad. I've written a song about. my dad every single album and every. single time just when we get to the time. where we're deciding the track list, I. cut the song. So, I'm like, I can't do. it. I'm too scared. I'm too scared. I'm. too scared. And this time I didn't and I. put it on the album and that was like a. moment for me where I was like, okay, this is something I have kept private, but now I feel ready to like get out. there and I feel like I have a.

responsibility kind of. Do you have a. relationship with your father like does. he know this is going to be on the. album? He doesn't know it's going to be on the. album. We have a pretty complicated. relationship which is like, you know, I. don't think that's like groundbreaking. I feel like a lot of young women have. complicated relationships with their. fathers. I think for me especially, you. know, I started making music when I was. 18 and it kind of started to blow up. when I was 19 and it just changed. everything about our family's dynamic. because I became the breadwinner and I.

became kind of like, you know, in a way like I became. like the matriarch patriarch of my. family and I think that. you know, for a man who like spent his. whole life like working really hard to. support his family. and then, you know, I kind of come in. and I'm like still a kid to him and I. take that role. I imagine that's probably. uh just like conflicting, you know, on.

like an existential level and it. definitely showed up in our relationship. and so it's like affected it since, yeah. I can imagine that was very confusing. for both of you. Like also you coming in. being like, I don't know what the [ __ ]. to do either. Like this is and when you. do look back, what is your earliest. childhood memory that comes to mind? It's so hard. I'm like one of those. people that doesn't remember like a lot. of their childhood. I had like a really. I had like a really hectic childhood. My. parents were really young when they had. me. They dropped out of college. They.

met at Fairleigh Dickinson in Jersey, and then they were like 19 or 20 when. they got pregnant. They'd only known. each other for like a couple months. And. you know, they both dropped out and. started their family with me. We moved. all the time. Every year we moved. Like. I wasn't out of school until like high. school I wasn't out of school longer for. than like 2 years. And I was always. starting over in a new place. We were. just trying to go where there was like. cheaper apartments, better jobs. My. parents were working like multiple jobs. And like my experience felt so.

irrelevant to like what they were going. through. You know what I mean? It was. like my I think that when I look back on. my childhood. my expe- my experience was very much to. just like not get in the way cuz of how. hard it was. And like I failed at that. miserably. I was getting in the way all. of the time. You know what I mean? And then I I feel. like that has probably attributed to. like why I am in like the line of work. that I'm in cuz it's like, you know, we're all looking to satisfy some sort.

of like No, I don't want to say need for. attention cuz I feel like that's like. deroga- like derogatory, but like. maybe like. we're looking for our voice and our. experience to matter, you know? But. don't you feel like even hearing you say. that when you're like, "I was always in. the way." I'm like, "Yeah, but I feel. like that's what kids are supposed to. do.". Totally. And like I imagine you though. like under those circumstances of your. parents constantly having to move, you. were like hyper aware of just like stay. over here. Like don't do anything. Don't.

like get in the way. Like I'm not that. important right now. Do you remember. like what you felt about when you would. like view your parents like romantic. relationship? My parents were like. really like. I guess kind of volatile. Like they were. either like super in love and like. cuddled on the couch, like laid the [ __ ]. up, like, you know, going on dates, like. obsessed with each other like kids, or. they were like at each other's throats.

There was like no no in between. And, you know, like. I've actually never really talked about. this before, but my household was like. pretty um. my household was pretty volatile. You. know what I mean? Like there was a lot. of like. um. There was a lot of like aggression, you. know what I mean? Um and aggression just. like. thrown in every direction, like, you. know, and.

I think that it's so funny cuz I. it's so obvious that you you witness. that, you form that as your perception. of not necessarily of what love is, but. what's acceptable in love, you know? And. then that you apply that. When I look on. past relationships of mine, I'm like. Okay. I'm like literally this is 2 + 2 =. 4. Like it's so simple, you know what I. mean? Yeah. And like oh, that was that is why. I went for this, but it looks so simple,

but it's like not also, cuz you don't. catch yourself immediately doing it. And. then when it's like a pattern, then. you're like, "Whoa.". I know. And then it's funny cuz you. think you do the work, and then like a. different trauma sneaks up on you. Or. it's like, "Okay, so you're like, all. right, I'm going to tolerate like. violence or aggression or like whatever. it is because I experienced it, um but now I'm going to unlearn that so. it never happens again." And then you. get into another relationship, and. you're like, "This one's better cuz it's. not like the last one." And then like a. different thing sneaks in, you know what. I mean? Where it's like the person's.

like putting you down, or they're like, I don't know, like gaslighting you, or. like whatever, and you're like, "Is this. a whole other thing? I'm This is a whole. other thing. Is it all just my childhood. again?" No, it's like. No, literally it's like whack-a-mole. because you're like, "Oh, maybe it's not. like physical this time, but it's like. emotional this time, but it's all under. the same [ __ ] umbrella.". Totally. First of all, thank you for. sharing that, cuz I feel like you're. someone that like your when you write in. your songs, like it's so [ __ ]. powerful and I think a lot of people. connect to you on how real you are in.

your lyrics, especially this new album. coming out. When I was listening to it, I was like I need I feel like I need to. pull over. It's like this is this is. like it's very heavy and emotional and I. feel for you, but I think a lot of. people can sadly relate to what you're. going through. When you were in those. moments with your. parents and it was volatile, like were. you someone that would just like be. alone and not tell anyone? How would you. like Yeah. basically go get through it? I think I. kind of coped in that way where I just.

like waited for it to be over, you know. what I mean? Also like. it it changes hands when you're in a. household like that. Like it usually. starts and it's like you can kind of. feel it happening to your mom and I'm. the only daughter and the oldest. Okay, wow. So, there was definitely a. point where like. the target kind of changed to me and you. feel I think really alone in that in. that sort of situation. I definitely. just mostly coped by writing. I've. always been a writer like my whole life.

and, you know, I like used to keep. journals and like keep diaries and stuff. like that and I read a lot and I def- I. was someone who kind of like I was into. escapism for sure. You know what I mean? Like novels and like just putting myself. into like other worlds that just felt. like different than mine. Yeah. Would you ever talk to your mom. like about it since she had. Okay. Yeah, no, I have. My mom and I are. super close. Yeah, she's like my mom is. like my my best friend and, you know, we.

have talked about it and like I think. there's a couple stages of it, right? Cuz then there's the first part where. you have to be like, "Hey, why didn't. you stand up for me?" And then there's. the second part where you have to be. like, "Also, I forgive you. You were. going through a lot." And then And like. the third part of it, which is like. there's still stuff you do today that. pisses me the [ __ ] off, but I understand. why now because, you know, you've been conditioned, you know what I. mean, in a certain way. And like, you. have to have just like so much grace and.

and understanding. And like, at a. certain point, you have to just decide. You have to decide what's forgivable, right? And some things are and some. things aren't. Like, I don't stand by. the thing with people where it's like, "Oh, like, they're your parents. Like, whatever it is, it's not that serious.". Like, you know, you have to. you have to just like make sure you keep. the relationship. Like, I don't agree. with that at all. But then at the same. time, I also don't agree with the idea. of like, we should punish our parents. forever for what they did to us. It's. like, some things you forgive, some you. don't, and that's up to you to decide,

you know. point. And it takes so much [ __ ] time. cuz like, the the resentment, I feel. like, goes in and out, like, depending. at where you're at in life. Like, you. can be like, "Okay, we're feeling good. now." And then like, something like. triggers you and reminds you of. something they did when you were. younger, and you're like, "Oh my [ __ ] god. Actually, we're not. done with this conversation. There's. more [ __ ] I just remembered." And it's. like an endless cycle, but I agree. Like, it doesn't it can't just be black. and white where you forgive, or it's. like all perfect. Like, there's going to. be conversations that keep having to.

happen. Yeah. I think also something interesting. that you were talking about was like. going to all these different schools. Like, when we are young, a huge part. also of like what forms our personality. and our tendencies is like our. relationship with our friends and our. peers. You going to new schools. constantly, like, how did you approach a. new school? Um, I was definitely like, this is an. opportunity. You know, I was always. like, if there's something I want to try. out or someone I want to be, like, I can. do it here cuz no one knows me. Oh, interesting. like, when I was growing up, I was like,

Ashley with a Y. I was like, Ashley with. two E's. There was like one school I was at for. like a really short period of time where. I was like, "I'm Ashley, but everyone. calls me Sky." It was like, not true. I. made that up. I was just like nine. And. then like it was like years later I was. like in a bar in New York and someone. came up to me and they were like, "Sky.". And I was like, "What?" And they were. like, "Sky, like we went to school. together." And I was like, I'm. I don't even remember being that person, which is ironic now cuz if you know. anything about me like as an artist like. you're like that tracks. Like you're.

constant you constantly look and seem. and act like different, you know? But that's kind of like fun and. tough as a kid to be you're constantly. having to have this like stable. foundation of a around you of like I. went to the same [ __ ] school from. like kindergarten to eighth grade. So. like we all knew each other's parents. and we all knew each other's [ __ ] which. has its pros and cons but like. constantly moving I feel like you can. yes reinvent yourself, but you also I feel like aren't really. seen then. No, definitely not. Yeah,

you're just like there's like fragments. of you out in the world just like these. little whispers of a person who's like. barely even formed. Like my manager. Anthony has a tattoo on his arm and it's. a tattoo of his childhood home and he. was like, "Yeah, this is like a drawing. of my childhood home." And I was like, "Bitch, I don't if you asked me what my. childhood home was, I can't think of one. cuz like I had so many." Like I I can't. I can't picture like a childhood home. I. lived in like eight houses, like. apartments. Like you know what I mean? You couldn't even like draw something.

I mean I would have to if if I had to. pick one that was like my childhood. home, like maybe the house I lived in. when I was in high school, but that's. not really childhood. No. You know what I mean? It was like I. lived in so so many different. apartments. I lived in like Florham. Park, I lived in Linden, I lived in. Clark, I lived in um like Sussex, I. lived in I just lived in so many. different places in all these like. little apartments and they're all just. kind of this like. this like amorphous goo of like. a bedroom and I'm like in there with my. little brother and then there's like the.

kitchen and then like you know, like the. apartment complexes they all like blend. into like one like when I picture it, kind of. I'm interested to get your take on this. Like, what do you think is the. difference between like. hyper-independence. versus loneliness? Um. I think it's whether it's forced or it's. a choice. You know what I mean? Yeah. I. think that's kind of the difference. I. think like if you're choosing to be. hyper-independent because it's like it's. better for you and like you.

function, you know, better in that way. versus if you're forced into. hyper-independence because you're not. trusting or you have like an attachment. issue or like, you know, you're um. you put a lot of self like a lot of. pressure on yourself to succeed or to. accomplish. That's kind of that like. loneliness, like that solitude, like. Would you say you were lonely as a kid? Oh my god, yeah. I was so lonely. I was. so I'm still lonely. I'm like, you know,

loneliness is like. when it affects you on. you know, I feel like there's like clinical. loneliness, you know? It's like there's. like there's being sad because something. happened and then there's like obviously. like depression, which is like, you. know, it's clinical. I feel like there's. a version of that with loneliness, you. know? It's like you're lonely cuz people. aren't around and you have no one to. hang out with. You're lonely cuz you're. going through something singular. Then. there's like deep like carnal.

loneliness. And I think that I've. definitely felt that way for like a lot. of my life. And it's. hard to fix, you know? It's like it's hard it's hard. it's hard to to. get around that, especially if you. become comfortable in it, you know? Well, and I feel like what you're. sharing too about your life, which I. appreciate you sharing all of this just.

to pause for a second cuz. Is it. to be so dark? This is not a fun. podcast. I was lonely as a kid. Let me just say like this is the [ __ ]. that I think like. when we now like listen to your music, it even adds like more context and like. in my opinion like I feel not in a. creepy way, but like I feel closer to. you now cuz I'm like, "Oh, fuck." Like. so many people are like, "Preach. Yes. Same. Same. [ __ ] Same." Like you. talking about your childhood I think.

that when people are listening to your. music, it it is kind of helpful to know. like, "No wonder you are lonely.". Because like you came from this. household environment that you had to. become lonely because you constantly. were just like surviving alone. And like. I think that happens a lot of times when. there are volatile or abusive situations. at home. Like if there's multiple people. getting abused, you can't even connect. in the moment over it cuz you're just. surviving. And then you talking with. your mom later on down the line. Like of.

course you wish you guys could have. bonded over or talked about it when you. were that young, but you couldn't cuz. you didn't have the tools either of you. to be like, "This is happening.". Sometimes a lot of times it takes. getting out to be able to talk about. [ __ ]. generational. You know what I mean? Like. I always say it's like our like our a. lot of for a lot of us our parents were. in the generation of survival. We're the. first with the luxury of existential. thought. You know what I mean? Like they. didn't have the luxury to like be um. like putting putting thought into, you. know, their existence or like the roles.

and dynamics at play or like, you know, the the reasons why they're doing. something. Like it was mostly just like. surviving, you know? I'm really. interested to talk about this high. school glow up that you had because I. could not relate more to something. I. know that you've mentioned in the past. you were kind of like insecure and. unnoticed. And then going into sophomore. year of high school you had this glow. up. Can you talk to me about that time. of your life? Call Her Daddy is brought to you by.

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sunny days. It's just what your summer. needs. Neutrogena Ultra Sheer Sunscreen. you can't feel. Shop now at Target. Going into sophomore year of high. school, you had this glow-up. Can you. talk to me about that time of your life? I was like really underdeveloped. You. know what I mean? I was like really. skinny. I like didn't hit puberty until. like a lot later and I was like super. nerdy. I had like glasses and like, you. know, um I was like yeah, I was just like a. geek and then, you know, I hit puberty.

and like I came back and all of a sudden. I had like huge tits and like, you know, I got contacts and like I um. I also kind of like that was where I. sort of entered my like I kind of. entered my villain era like when I was. like 15 where I was like tired of being. nerdy and geeky and I was like, [ __ ] you. guys. Like I actually really cool. interests and I hang out with adults. like which is not good. That's like a. whole other separate bad thing, but. Yeah, but I felt very like, you know, I. felt very like emboldened by that and.

was just like at school like. I don't know. Like my my coping. mechanism of like not getting along with. the kids I went to school with or not. like really fitting in and having a. friend group was by telling myself it. didn't matter because I had like cooler, more interesting friends and people I. knew, most of whom were just like. online. Like didn't really hang out with. them in real life, but I was like. you know, we're talking about like, you. know, intellectual things and like. whatever else, but yeah, I definitely um.

I feel like everything really changed. really fast for me and I went from. someone who was like. look who looked like a nerdy 10-year-old. when I was 15 to like someone who was. getting like tons of unwanted. like sexual attention and I was like, what the [ __ ] How did having like. cuz I experienced a similar thing of. like overnight going through puberty and. being like, no, no, no, no, no, like the.

same guy that's like bullying the. [ __ ] [ __ ] out of me is now like. wanting to like take me on a date and. Totally. hold on, pause, you [ __ ]. piece of [ __ ] Like nothing changed. except my looks and yet now you're into. me. Like how did that impact the way. that you like felt about yourself? Um I. think it did in like a lot of different. ways. The first was I had to like. differentiate, you know, between what attention was. like kindness and what wasn't cuz my.

first instinct is I was like, oh, people. are being really nice to me now and I. just missed the agenda completely. Mhm. And like that was really hard to. navigate cuz I didn't have a lot of. experience with that and. I it took me a long time to learn like. if someone is like giving you that kind. of attention, you're not obligated to. return it. Yeah. I was really afraid of. like making people mad or making people. not like me and like, you know, on on like the simplest level, it's like. a guy will be like an [ __ ] to you if. you are kind of if you reject him and.

then on the worst version of it, there's. violence, you know what I mean? So it. was kind of like it's I had to learn how. to navigate like I am not obligated to. concede or to give in to the sexual. pursuit of me. Mhm. just because it's happening. But. it's hard because when you go from not. experiencing any of it that like a lot. of your peers are experiencing and then. all of a sudden all this validation. comes. Like. I remember when that happened to me, I. felt at first so excited. Like kind of.

like you're talking about. There's that. like excitement of validation. But underneath it, I think when I was. alone, I had some like anger cuz I was. like. what like is it it's so surface level. Like I would I've been the same person. the whole time but you guys like didn't. give me any [ __ ] attention until I. had tits and an ass and like That's when. you have to start doing the would you. have been nice to me before and if the. answer is no, then bye. Bye. It's really. confusing. Um.

You said once that you thought your. sexiness was a superpower kind of like. we're talking about and made it so no. one could hurt you and you would enter. these rooms just like. feeling that confidence. Yeah, I. definitely wielded sexual power as like. a you know. uh. I don't know. Like as a as a tool of. acquisition, you know? Like I definitely. used it in certain circumstances cuz it. was kind of all that I had. give me an example? Well, like you know, if you're in a room full of people, especially men, you know, and in this. business as I was starting my business.

and I was learning how to navigate the. industry is not just like I write songs. and like oh I have to build a business, you know? Um you're in a room full of. people who are more experienced than. you. They're older than you. They're. richer than you. They're very often men, white men, you know? And at the time I. was I started out by trying to be like. look how smart I am and look how much I. know and it was kind of like okay and I. was like well that's not working. Okay. And then at a certain time, I think in. the beginning I kind of figured out like.

I can make all of these like really. smart men dumb instantly if I'm just. hot, you know? Like it's so crazy how. fast they become stupid. Like there's. they have so much power over you in the. moment where you're like, "Oh, the. experience, the money, the power, the. whatever." And then you have this one. little magic trick in your pocket where. you can just be like, "Really?". And all of a sudden that guy is like, "Uh yes." And you're like, "Oh god, that. was so easy." It's like, "Why wouldn't. you use it if you have it then?" And I.

think so many people can relate to this. Like. I do think yes, like women can relate to. using that. part of us that is so sexualized. Yeah. And leaning into it, you can feel. this like great great energy from it. And it's like. Until it becomes feels gross, though. Until it gets gross. And it feels gross pretty fast, I feel. like. And I think like a lot of. conversation I always see online. Like I. know Emily Ratajkowski has like talked a.

lot about it of like there's this weird. [ __ ] thing where you know you can use. it to an advantage, but then you also. have to like have some. ability to like navigate for yourself. what you're comfortable with and what. you're not comfortable with. Like when. do you think if you have like a memory. that you were like, "Oh, I'm I'm taking. it too far. This actually is like I'm. not I'm not feeling chill about this.". Um I mean, there's been like a couple. times. There's definitely like sometimes. where like I was. you know I was like out with like some.

collaborators and it was like late and. like um. Someone was just like. we were kind of like playfully flirting. in a way that was like seemed really. harmless. And then they got like really drunk and. they just started kind of like touching. me like in public and I was like, "Whoa." But at the time, you know, you're it's like I was younger then, but. it was like you don't want to cause a. scene, you don't want to like, you know, there's other people there, you don't. want them them to see you freak out and.

then they don't want to work with you. cuz they think you're a drama queen and. like whatever else and and you know, and. these are all, like I said, younger-. minded belief systems of mine that have. obviously since changed now that I'm. older, but like those are the kind of. things where I was like, "This is not. worth it, you know? It's bec- It's. becoming unsafe, and I uh I I don't. want, you know, I don't want this to seem like I'm. signing a. I'm signing some sort of invisible.

contract where I'm promising something. to someone, you know? And I think the. concept of like being a young person in. a situation where there's a power. dynamic, like you're just it's such this. like hard thing to explain until you're. in those situations where you referenced. it earlier of like I didn't want to make. this person upset, and I didn't want it. to escalate where it could literally get. to the point where it goes like violent, so you kind of just like appease the. situation, and I think that is where it.

can get really scary, and it and you. keep just like we just can appease. people and like make it be like, "Oh, no, no, everything's fine, everything's. fine." And it's like, but then you go. home and you feel like gross and shitty. you. I had like a really strange. situation a couple years ago. I mean, I guess it was quite a It was. quite a long time ago. But, I was out, and I was with this. executive, like this really powerful. executive who works in music in some. capacity, and I'd been going out and. like.

hanging out with him and like some other. people at the company, and like, you. know, we were working together, and like. everything was like really fine. Like it. was very just like um. celebratory, and like there was a lot of. like industry talk. I didn't feel weird. about it at all. And I like had like my. two managers with me who were kind of. like older guys, and like I never felt. like unsafe or anything. We were out one. night, and like. he was like, "Oh, like I want to send a. photo to like my niece of us together or. something like that." And I was like, "Okay." And I like took out my phone, I.

took like a selfie of the two of us, and. I handed him my phone, and I was like, "Text it to yourself. I have to pee.". And then I went to the bathroom, and. when I came back, he like handed me my. phone like this, and I saw he was like. going through my nudes on my phone. What. is wrong with people? And I like sat down, and I was like, uh. I actually didn't even know what to do. I was just like frozen. I was like, "Did. I just imagine that? Was that an. accident?" Like, did the phone like scroll up? Like, what. what what the heck just happened? And.

then I was like, "Did he text them to. himself, and then delete the messages?". Like, I don't even know where these are. now. Like, I was just like Wow. I was. like frozen, and I was like, "That's so. crazy that like I'm in this situation. where like I have so much power. I have a bodyguard. Like, I have a. I have a a sec- a bodyguard. And I have, you know, all the leverage in the world, and I'm. in this like exclusive space in this. like VIP like, you know, I've reached. the ranks of like, "Oh, I am.

protected." Or like, whatever else it. may be. And then this invasive. thing just happens like on a whim, and I. was like, "Oh my god." I was I It made me feel. I felt like. it regressed me so much. Like, it made. me feel I went from being like, "Yeah, I'm like. [ __ ] hot [ __ ] and I'm one of the big. players." Like, and then I sat down, and.

when that happened in that moment, I was. like, "You're nothing. You're nothing. You'll always be nothing. You're still. just like that [ __ ] girl who's like. getting, you know, taken advantage of, or like men are talking about you behind. your back, or you're some sort of like. collateral." I was like, "You're. nothing." It was so demoralizing. It's so. And so many worse things have happened. to me than that, but that one stuck out. for some reason because it was so. nonchalant. Right. No, that like what I. think it's so I appreciate you sharing.

the details even of like you're where. you at you're in your career, you have a. [ __ ] bodyguard and it's like I think. and and you technically like we revert. to that like little child of like. men ruling the world and us just having. to appease them like we were just. talking about and you in that moment. like no of course and people be like why. didn't you just say something? It's like. you don't get it until you're [ __ ] in. those moments where it's like. there is kind of nothing to say but even. if you said something then you're the.

crazy [ __ ] that it's like oh and then. someone calls you a [ __ ] cuz then what. do you mean? What are you talking about? You're nude? You take nude like they can. turn it so [ __ ] fast on you. Also it's like are you are you like a. bad [ __ ] business woman? That's the. other thing is is like at what point, you know, where is the line between like. I am a powerful woman so I have to stand. up to myself and the line between that. and I'm a powerful woman so I have to. not let certain things bother me so that. I can outplay these men in the long. game. There's so much to think about in that.

moment. You know what I mean? It's like. am I going to let this bother me? This. like pathetic squirmy little worm action. of this man when like I could just let. it go and then I'll get the last laugh. cuz I'm building my business and I'm. looking out for my life and whatever or. like do I have a responsibility as a. woman in a position of power to stand up. for myself in that moment? I don't know. which is what is expected of me. I don't think anyone. in your position or. anyone really in those moments knows. what to do even like the highest of.

powered people like and I think that's. why this is a really interesting. conversation because it's like you. you're so [ __ ] right. Had you said. something and made a scene, then you're. just like oh she's like the crazy [ __ ]. like no one work with her anymore. She. like makes stuff up and she like uses. her like sexual being parts of herself. as like a way to like get people in. trouble. We don't touch her anymore. Like no one go near her. widow. She'll flirt with you and then. she'll like screw you over later. I'm. like, "Whoa, okay." And men don't have. that experience where they're never.

being like overly sexualized in those. moments where like, "Uh, can't relate. Got to go. Ew, she's crazy bitch.". Yeah, yeah, get off of me. Whatever. Totally. It's not only is it the best. interview because you're fabulous, it's. also like I have been wanting to have. these type of conversations with someone. that gets it and can talk about it, but. also is not like above it where like you. are in it and you've experienced it and. I think so many young people are going. to be like Yeah. [ __ ] Thank you for. just talking about something that we. don't have the answer to any of this. No, also that's the thing. People look. to us and they're like, "So, what do you.

do in those situations?". Cuz they're like, "Oh, thank you for. sharing. So, what's the solution?" And. you're like, "I don't know. I'm still. figuring that out.". know. You know what I mean? Like I'm. still figuring out so many things. Like. I even now like, you know, I like where. are the lines, you know? Like sometimes. it's just like. it if someone's being like a little. overly friendly, it's hard sometimes to. be like, "Okay, is it like because. they're excited to talk to me or is it.

because they're like they don't. understand social cues or like, you. know, what is it? Or like is this worth. being like, 'Yo, this chill.'". Yeah. You know? And I think I had a. situation that happened to me this past. year and I feel like. odd because my show you would expect me. to immediately like run and sit in front. of the camera and talk about it for all. of the young people listening to me. I'm. still trying to figure out like how to. talk about that situation because it is.

a work situation and I'm like I may see. this person again and it's a situation. where it's like, "Wow, like. I don't think anyone would expect me to. not say something." And I didn't say. something in that moment and I was so. uncomfortable. And it's like I think the. point is. two people in seemingly positions of. power are sitting here acknowledging. today to young people that experience. this. Like, there is no answer, but I do. think through a show like this and. through your music, like by us just. talking about it, writing about it,

singing about it, it just starts to like. normalize more of the conversation so. people don't feel so ashamed to talk to. even a [ __ ] friend. You don't have to. report something immediately. Like, it. doesn't have to go to the highest level. Just like acknowledging it, I feel like. is the first step to making some. progress. Absolutely. It's an ongoing. conversation. Also, people don't like it. when rules change. That's like the other. thing is like people also don't like it. when you have like nuanced rules. You. know, like for example, like I'm topless. on my album cover for my fourth record.

and it's like my nipple was in Target. Like, it's everywhere. But like, people. sometimes will just like walk into my. dressing room and I'll be like, "Yo, the. door." And it's like the expectation is. like, "What are you showing everyone. your tits?" And I'm like, "Okay, well, I'm revoking that right in this moment.". Like, I'm allowed to decide I don't want. you to see me naked right now just cuz. you've seen me naked before. Like, I'm. allowed to change my mind. Or like, someone's like, "Oh, like, you know, I. saw you on in this one interview with. like this person and you were like so. touchy-feely and like so comfortable.".

It's like, "Why are you being so. standoffish to me?" And I'm like, I have. a like, you don't know my relationship. with that person separate of that. interview. Or like, you don't know this. Or like, you know, I'm I I reserve the. right to change what I'm comfortable. with. But people don't like that cuz. then they go, "Oh, she's so wishy-washy. They're always changing their mind. Like, pick one. Like, what is it?" And. it's like, "I'm allowed to change my. mind." Not only are you allowed to. change your mind, like, there are. different boundaries per situations. you're in in life of like, you may have. been having a really rough morning. And.

so like, yeah, I'm not in the mood for. this. And like, no matter what the [ __ ]. you're in the mood for, that's okay. And. people that make you feel uncomfortable. or like you're being unreasonable, that. is a red [ __ ] flag. Like, if. something's if someone is constantly. coming at you and making you feel like. you're over dramatic or you're being. high maintenance and you're. pause. Or like you took away the blanket. consent that I thought you gave to all. of us. And like I wanted that, too. And. like the reason they're reacting that. way is because. what they believe you've given them is.

you know, with this like hypothetical. blanket consent, is like they see an. opportunity they want to leverage that. for their own personal gain or their own. whatever. And when you take it away, they're offended. It's like you've taken. something from me and it's access to. you. They feel like ownership over you. in a way. Like that example of your. nipple being in Target. You made a. decision the day of your photo shoot to. do something creative and artistic that. you were comfortable with that day. That.

does not mean that everyone in the. [ __ ] world when you're walking down. the street can be like. nipple free for everyone to see. Like. it's wild that they people feel. entitled. The entitlement to our bodies. and moments if you it's crazy. Yeah. I. want to talk about romantic. relationships because we kind of started. about your childhood and I feel like. again, what we've been kind of talking. about is like they're all [ __ ]. connected. Did you tend to fall in love. easily when you were younger? Uh not. when I was younger, actually. When I was.

younger, like when I was a young adult, definitely. When I was a teenager, not. so much. I wasn't like super trusting, you know what I mean? Um. when I was I think honestly, once I. became. famous, I think I fell in love faster. cuz I was so desperate for like. stability and like partnership and like. I just wanted to be seen and I wanted. like a constant. So, you know, I think that I a lot of the time would.

sort of project that on to people. Like. you ignored a lot of red flags, like. that kind of thing. And like not even. like some of them super like insidious. red flags, but some of them just like. more harmless ones of like we're just. not really compatible in that way. You. know what I mean? You have talked about. a relationship you had when you were 17. The guy was 24. Yeah. And he was a. pretty big drug addict and was into. drugs. What drew you to that person.

initially? I'm a fixer. I am a fixer. I'm like I can fix you. I. can fix you. Like you know, I am. It's funny. I felt like becoming a mom. was so. natural to me. I struggle with it in the. same way that every mom does, but at the. end of the day I I think I had so much. blanket patience because of how much. time I spent trying to like fix and. mother people up until that point where. like my my like patience for someone not.

growing the way you want them to or as. fast as you want them to or like. whatever it was like already so. established. You're like I've been a mother way. before my child. Yeah, seriously. I've been mothering these men for a long. time, Alex. No, that makes sense and I. think it's again like interesting to. hear you talk about a dynamic that can. be like someone struggling so much with. an addiction. Like I had a relationship. with someone that struggled a lot with.

addiction and I was very young and he. was older than me. And I remember the. power imbalance was like so ever present. and I would feel so. insecure and I would want to like I. think when you're the person that's not. in the position of power, you find. yourself like doing things to try to. like even the playing field and really. it's like kind of you appeasing them and. doing what they want you to do so you. feel closer to them. Absolutely. Did you experience that with.

this relationship? Yeah, I mean I dated a lot of addicts. Like, that was a kind of a recurring. theme for me until I was just like, "Okay, no." You know? And like, I think. that, you know, part of the part of the. problem, I think, when you're. romantically involved with someone who. is in active addiction, is that there's. no logic, right? So, you try to reason. with them, and you try to go like, "Okay, well, can't you see that if you. do this, then it hurts me, and then I. feel this way?" Or like, "You did that. I watched you do it." And.

it's like, they live in a completely. different reality that they've. constructed. to, you know, as a as a survival mechanism. to not think about the fact that they're. in active addiction. You know what I. mean? So, it's like, you're arguing with. someone, or you're reasoning with. someone based on reality, and like, that's not their reality. So, there. there's no. You can't. You can't like reason with someone who's. not living in a world of reason. And.

then it turns into like this cognitive. dissonance like thought spiral, where. you start to feel like you're crazy. You. start to go insane because there's no. growth. It feels like growth when. they're. right, they're not on drugs, so then. you're getting closer, and you feel. like, "Oh, we're so back." And then it. happens again, and then you're like, "Wait, no." But then the progress that. feels like progress, it's just you're. just getting a little bit back to like. normal. It's like, it's a really really. difficult spiral that I like empathize. with anyone going through it right now.

that's listening of like, "You're not. crazy." And I do agree that a lot of. people in those positions want to fix. things. You can't fix someone that's going. through that, and I think a lot of times. we feel like we can. Yeah. You can't. And I I know it's. easier said than done, but like, once. you get out of those moments, you. obviously have clarity. But when you're. in it, like, I just have empathy for. like friends going through it, or people. listening. Like, it's [ __ ] hard. And. again, there is no solution that we're. providing today. I think it's just like. talking about the real [ __ ] that you go.

through. I needed someone to tell me at that. time, like you're not a bad person if. you leave someone who's like. hurting you. You know what I mean? Cuz. like I was always kind of like making. excuses for those things and being like, "Oh, but what kind of person am I if I leave. someone who's like in this great of. need?" And I really needed someone to be. like, "Baby, that is not your. responsibility." You know what I mean? Especially cuz I was just so young. And. also, I had to unlearn this thing that I. was going through at that time where I. was like.

"I've spent so long in just like misery. wanting to fix this person. What if they get better one day and then. someone else gets to have the better. version of them that I worked so hard to. build?". And you're and it's like that is what. kept me in it. Was being like, "Well, no, one day like they're going to get. better." And then someone else is going. to get to have the version of them that. I always dreamed would exist. And all I. got was just like the suffering. And. then what am I? I'm just like the. lesson, I'm the martyr, I'm the.

catalyst. I I exist in their life just. so that they could go be better for. someone else. Like and I was like. determined to not have that cuz it also. it felt like losing. I had to also. deconstruct that too, that thing of like. winning and losing. I was like, "No, baby, this is your life. This isn't. about winning or losing, you know?". I don't know. Sorry, it was intense. I'm I'm more just like speechless. because I don't think I've ever heard. someone like articulate it so perfectly. that I can imagine everyone listening. right now is like. maybe like pulling over to the side of.

the road just like have a have a pause. because it's so [ __ ] real of like. most of those relationships you go to. the very possible end to the point that. like you even. are at risk of your own life when you go. that [ __ ] far down with someone. So. to leave feels like, "But what was this. all for?". Yeah. And it's like it's just going to. keep going. Yeah, it. feels like giving up, but it's not. It's. like making you're making like a. It's like a It is a hard choice. I think.

that I started learning like in a way. you really do become someone when you're. spending that amount of time with them. and you're like connecting with them on. an energetic level that much where now. like if I look at my partner and I. wouldn't want to be them. I would if I wouldn't want to be just. like them, then like I probably. shouldn't be with them. Like you should. kind of really only be spending that. amount of time and putting that much. love and connection and vulnerability. into a person if like you know. if you would be okay.

becoming them as a result, yeah, you. know. You're. preaching right now. I'm like keep. going. You're giving us a TED Talk. Call. Her Daddy is brought to you by Libre by. Yves Saint Laurent. You guys, this. perfume is the one that I wear on date. nights. The new YSL fragrance Libre Eau. Neu is light, it's fresh, it's the. perfect balance of citrus and floral. notes. It's also alcohol-free, which I. love, and has incredible staying power,

so I know I'm going to be smelling. absolutely amazing all night. The Libre. Eau Neu is a refreshing twist on the. iconic Libre Eau de Parfum. It's lighter. and fresher and exactly the scent I'm. looking for as we head into spring. There is nothing better than giving a. friend a hug and her being like "Oh my. god, Alex, what are you wearing? You. smell amazing." Yeah, it's YSL, baby. Also, something underrated but super. important is that this perfume looks.

good in my home, okay? The Libre Eau Neu. bottle has a jewel-like radiant white. finish, as you can see, and I absolutely. love it. So, every single time I walk. into my home, I just want to put it on. Um for all my girls out there who like a. citrusy floral perfume and are looking. for that signature scent, YSL has you. covered. Shop now at Sephora. In one of. your poems, you wrote, "I won't love a. man unless he is angry because of my. father.". Yeah. How did normalizing anger.

in these relationships that you were. having. make you more willing to put up with the. things that they were doing? Mhm. I. think that I. Well, first of all, I had to change the. way that I talk to myself. Mhm. You know what I mean? Like I had a. therapist once who was like um. was like I was I was talking to them. about a partner and I was like they just. like. constantly tell me or make me feel like.

I'm not special or like, you know, I'm. like. I'm embarrassing or like I'm. weak or I'm like I don't know, just like. all these things and the person was. like, "Okay, let me ask you a question. like. do you think you're special?" And I was. like, "No.". I was like, "I'm no, I don't like what? Like I'm better than everybody else? No, I don't think that." She was like, "No, but I asked you I asked you, do you. think you're special?" And I was like, "No.". She was like, "And what do you tell. yourself like in those situations? Like.

how do you talk to yourself?" And I was. like, "Well, I just try to remind myself. like. you know, like. you have to be humble and like you're. not better than everybody else and like. you're not special and like you know.". And she was like, "Okay." She was like, "So that's how you talk to yourself. then when someone else talks to you the. same way. you're not going to notice that that's. out of the norm. You know what I mean? Like that's if you're if you're if. you're communicating with yourself in. that way, like if you believe those.

things You know what I was like, "Yeah, but it's one thing for me to humble. myself, but I want my partner to build. me up." And they were like, "No, you. have to build yourself up. It's not you. can't depend on another the to do that.". Which was a really interesting. conversation because I feel like. sometimes we go into therapy so often. when we're struggling with relationships. and we're like, "What's wrong with all. these people?". And then there comes a part where you. have to take responsibility. You know, like one of the things I start. I had to take responsibility for to end. up in a healthy relationship was sort of. this like toxic empathy and like this um.

this sort of like toxic um. uh. not like people-pleasing, but. I was like. I was realizing that if I don't set. clear boundaries for myself and people. repeatedly cross those boundaries, it's. my fault cuz I'm not giving them I'm not. communicating with them or giving them a. chance to learn that that's a boundary. And then also it's building up building. up building up building up and then I'm. blowing up out of resentment, but. they're confused because I never told.

them that that boundary was being. crossed. And so. you know, that was a moment of where I. was like, "Oh god, like I have I have to. also take responsibility, you know?" Or. like. cuz I had went through a a phase I think. where I was really like, "I don't even. like I don't even ask my partner for. anything. Like I take care of all my own. stuff. I don't bring myself into the. relationship. Like I'm not asking them. to like support me or emotionally. whatever. Like I literally just like I. take care of all my own [ __ ] and I take. care of them and like still they can't.

even like be there for me in the 5% I'm. actually asking them to." And she was. like, "Well, you're not showing up. honestly.". She was like, "You're not being. yourself." She was like, "You think that. they're being like dishonest or they're. being disingenuous. Like [ __ ] so are. you." And just because you think it's in. a nice way doesn't mean that it's okay. Like you're not like you this like. self-sacrificing act or whatever is. actually you showing up and lying to. them. And that shook me cuz when she. first said it I was like, "Well, no. I'm. I didn't do anything wrong." I was like, "Why are you telling me I did something. wrong?" And then I had to look at that.

and I had to be like, "Damn. Okay, you're right. You're right. If I'm. showing up dishonestly even if it's. well-intended, I'm just as bad as it them, you know. You have a great therapist. Like who is. this therapist? We all need this person. No, it's so [ __ ] true. Like not. communicating something to your partner. that you're like something is like. festering inside of you and you're. watching it all the time being so upset. and they have no [ __ ] idea you're. upset about it. It's like how would they. know you're upset if you don't tell them. you're upset? In one of your new songs,

Panic Attack, I was listening to it and. I was like this is the most relatable. thing I've ever [ __ ] heard and so. many people when they hear the song are. going to be like yes, thank you. I am I have I have too been there. You. talk about struggling essentially to. differentiate like am I having this like. these panic attack feelings or am I. falling in love and like what is the. [ __ ] difference? Can you talk about. from your experience like. how those two are kind of similar in the. beginning phase of a relationship? Yeah,

I think like you know, if you're like. anxiously attached, like you kind of get. those feelings of like nervousness, like. and it's really easy to misinterpret. those. I said this a long time ago. I. have like a song from like a couple. years ago from an album Manic, a song. called Graveyard, where like in the. bridge I say it's funny how the warning. signs can feel like butterflies, you. know? And so like I've kind of touched. on this before with panic attacks like a. more expanded version of it, which is. like, you know, there is that moment. kind of of like you know, your heart's.

freaking beating out of its chest when. their name pops up on your phone. What's. that about? Is it because you're now. entering this like dopamine cycle of. like, you know, you actually aren't. sure? Like if you're not sure they're. going to answer you and then it excites. you when they do, I don't think that's. love. I don't think so. Like you. shouldn't be putting that level of. energy into a person if you're not sure. that they're going to have the decency. to respond to your message. It's so confusing and I love that you.

brought up Graveyard cuz I was like. going to reference that and I'm like, no, but we have like a new and improved. version. I have a panic attack over. here. But they are. And I feel like. those butterfly warning signs are so. easily misconstrued in the beginning. phase and I empathize a lot because it's. hard until you start to just have your. life experiences and go through multiple. relationships and it's that again, us. not giving you guys the answer, but. knowing like the more you experience, the easier it is to kind of be like, oh, no, no, no. I've felt that way before.

and I know how this goes down. Like I. need to pump the brakes, but the. beginning of relationships can be very. hard to discern. Is this excitement or. is this because this person is. essentially like love bombing me or. whatever the [ __ ] is going on or is it. like slightly mentally abusive, but I'm. seeing it as like he finally is giving. me attention. Oh my god, I'm amazing. Also toxic like toxicity in. relationships is addictive. It is. It's. absolutely addictive. It's just like a.

cycle of like norepinephrine. Like. that's like an adrenaline chemical, you. know what I mean? And like dopamine and. like you start to build patterns and. like neural pathways to the ups and. downs of feeling that like rejection, validation, rejection, validation, rejection, validation. And I remember. when I kind of like. uh when I had had like some distance. from like my most toxic relationship and. I was in relationships that were like a. little bit more content. I do remember at times being kind of.

like. I don't want to say this is any kind of. like diss to the people who. might hear themselves in this. conversation because. you know, this this isn't this isn't a. diss, but I did find myself kind of. bored. And like not bored with them, but bored. with the lack of intensity and the lack. of the up and down and kind of just like. wondering if. because I had experienced such highs and. lows in a toxic relationship, if every.

other form of love was going to feel. like less than satisfactory to me. So. real. Yeah, like that's so [ __ ] real. true because I'm very much in love now, and I'm getting. all Yeah, I was going to say I'm in all. those. I see that ring, girl. I. I will say to anyone listening, that's. not true, but I do think there's a. period of time where like safety comes, where you just kind of feel like it just. doesn't hit the same.

And like you can't go back. I I. definitely was like, oh, I wonder if I'm. just going to be like what is it for me? Is it contentment? Is it settling? Is it settling for safety? Do I get to have that same intensity. without all of the. danger, you know? And I feel like. something I had to learn along the way, and it's everyone has to like take their. time with it is like you're right, the. toxicity is addicting, but. there's such a difference between like.

safe and boring are just not the same. thing. And it can take you a really long. time, but understandably, if you're on. this [ __ ] roller coaster ride, and. then you're slowly just like sitting in. the little the like the game that you're. just like riding around and it's slow, you're like this isn't [ __ ] fun. I. want to be screaming my head off, and I. want to have my hair all over the place. It's like what if we told you that like. 10 people died on that ride like last. week, and you're like, well, it was fun. though. Like you know what I mean? keep. going back, and it's like why do we do. this to ourselves? Cuz I was going to. ask you about like you have written.

about these like volatile relationships. that you've been in, and like. when you do get out of them, I guess you. just answered it of like what do you. learn about yourself then when you get. into new relationships that aren't as. volatile? And it's like I guess your. answer was like kind of learning to be. okay with peace a little bit more. Yes. and no. Okay. Because then what happened was is I was. like, okay, I I this is it. I guess I'm. just settling for contentment. And then. I realized that that wasn't true either. That was me putting safety before my. happiness. You know what I mean? Cuz I.

was going to say like if you have any. advice to. maybe someone that's watching this right. now that is like fully in that cycle of. whether it's with an abusive partner or. a toxic partner and they just can't get. out of it and they're like, "But I'll. never find something that makes me feel. this.". You will. You have to heal first. When. you get out going to feel that way right. away because you need to heal. And then. like that new healed version of you is. going to like, you know, I don't know. It's kind of like when you get a wound. and then, you know, the wound hurts and.

it hurts and it hurts, but at least. you're feeling something. And then it. scars and the scar is numb. And you're. like, "I don't have no feeling here.". But then eventually new skin grows and. you get to feel again, but it's not it. doesn't hurt. You know what I mean? No, it's so it's so hard to tell people. when they're in it. We're like, "I. promise you. You're If you leave and you. get out of it and you heal, it's going. to get better.". Yeah. I want to ask you like as an. artist cuz I feel like a lot of people. have these moments where they. collaborate with someone they were in a. relationship with and you've done that.

in the past and you have this like very. famous song with someone that you have. like talked about like not having a good. relationship with. Can you describe the. feeling of like having a piece of art. tied to a very. like hurtful and not. like positive experience? I think the. one thing I've been really smart about. is they're never my songs. I'm always on their songs. So then like. that's your problem, not mine. I get to. do my whole catalog and I don't have to. deal with you. So like sorry that some.

of your biggest songs have me on them. I. don't know what to tell you. Um but I. tend to be sort of the gatekeepy about. my art for that same reason where I'm. like, "Yeah, I'll get on your thing, but. like. not mine, you know? Like this needs to. this I need to preserve this for for. myself. You know, I think whether I'm on. a record with someone in our in like, you know, the relationship changes or. not, or I just wrote a song about them, like songs just carry so much cellular.

energy. But the good thing about them is. that they do evolve. You know what I. mean? Like I've gotten on stage and sang. the same song like over like I've ever. I've been singing without me for [ __ ]. years, you know, and every time I sing. it feels different. Feels like it's. about a different thing and like, you. know, I've so many songs that are about. so many different times in my life or. like experiences and like. I don't know. I think that. I think that. I'll I'll never shy away from being. honest, you know? It's like and if you.

have to deal with the consequences of. that later, then so be it, but like I. would rather regret I would rather. regret. being. honest and being reflective of where I. was in my life at that time than regret. not saying something or doing something. that I wish that I had. I don't know. I. just. It's a great [ __ ] answer. Yeah, no features on this album though, just me. Nobody else getting in the way. of my narrative. Period. Um there is a.

ring on your finger. We've gone through. childhood, we've gone through your. previous relationships and going through. the mud to get to congratulations, you're engaged. Yes. Thanks. I am like you're [ __ ] married. I know. It's insane. Where did you get. all the tea from you guys? I'm. just kidding. It's insane and it still. feels weird to say like I have a. husband. Like what is happening? You're. a fiance. This is exciting. Um how did the. proposal happen? Can you tell me? Tell.

me. So he proposed in Barcelona. Um it's kind of like. where we first started hanging out, so. it's like really special to us cuz we. had this like kind of. this like. these few days where we were. like we're hanging out a bunch, and. it was very like not, you know, I wasn't. sure that I was ready, and so it was. kind of like, you know, but I was also kind of like, you're literally the.

like most amazing, like smartest, hottest, nicest person I've ever met in. my life, so I was like, please don't go. anywhere. I'm going to I'm trying to. figure it out. Like, you know what I. mean? Stay here. Just give me a little. bit of time. Yeah, and uh you know, so. he yeah, he proposed in Barcelona. It. was really sweet, and um. immediately afterwards left to go shoot. a show for like 6 months in Canada. I. was like, okay, bye. Stop. Yeah, so we. we haven't really had like the chance to.

be like. engaged. Right. You know what I mean? Um. but he's coming home, and you know, just. in time for me to go start like all the. album promo or whatever, and um you. know, I think we're going to get to have. like our our time then, but I never. wanted to be married. Interesting. Never. Never? What changed? Aven. Yeah. I don't know. I never. thought that I would ever want to be. married, and then like. I I just knew I wanted to marry him, and. I couldn't explain why, cuz I would.

deconstruct marriage like from such a. logical perspective beforehand. Like, I. was so like practical, survival, like, you know, uh like like fiscal like about it. Like, you know, the way that I was I always. broke down marriage, and like I couldn't. really understand the point of marrying. just from like an emotional point of. view. It was like, well, if you love. each other, then just be together. Why. do you need to get married? Yes. didn't understand it, and then I don't. know, it was just something with him. where I just knew I wanted to marry him, and like. I can't even explain why. You know what.

I mean? Cuz I do I love him in such a. way that I feel like we would be just as. fine if we didn't. Mhm. But something about that makes me want. to do it more. I relate a lot to what you're saying cuz. I was very vocal. Like even when I met. Matt, I was like, "I don't want to get. married. I never want to get married.". Like I thought it would threaten my. independence. I was. I felt the same way. Like why do we need. a piece of paper? And then I just like. knew. he was the person if I was going to do. it. And I think that's so beautiful that. it was just like something within you is.

like, "I know this is right.". knew. And that's like I mean How did you. guys meet? We met kind of just like. floating around. He was like floating. around Europe, and so was I. We were. both doing like some like fashion week. stuff and some like I was playing some. festivals and like. you know, we I we'd been like aware of. each other. Like we followed each other. on Instagram. You know what I mean? But. it was like. And I And we neither of us can really. remember if we had like met in passing. before that. I think I would remember,

so I don't think we have. You know what. I mean? But um. I was I had like I always had like a. weird feeling about him, you know? And then, you know, I I I got pregnant. and I was, you know, with my son's. father. And then like I didn't have any. feelings about anyone cuz I was like. super committed to like making my family. work and like, you know, this new life. as like a mom with like my son. And so. like. um I wasn't really thinking about any of. that kind of stuff. And then I became a. single mom and I was like, "I am never. dating anyone ever again. And it's going.

to be I had so much to figure out." I. was like, "It's just me and my son." And. like. you know, and I was also really sick. I. was really sick in like a like not. thinking about. dating at all. Yeah, and so then we met we like met up. for a drink one night. And I just. remember walking into this bar, this. like hotel bar, and he was just like. sitting in this like little beer garden. at the hotel. And I like walked in and I saw him. And. the only way I can explain it was is. like.

you know in like a vampire movie when. the vampire like glamours you? Like they. do that thing and that makes you like, yes, whatever. Like it felt like that. was happening to me. Like I walked in. all like. I walked in and I was like, hey. And he. was like, hi. And I was like, hi. Hi. Okay. He Edward Cullened you. No, he straight up like mind tricked me. Like and he wasn't doing it on purpose. He just is very charming. You know what. I mean? Like. you. Yeah, and I was just like, whoa. There was just like this like this.

warmth and this like light just like. emanating off of him. It was so. compelling. It was so alluring. I just. like sitting at the table just wanted to. like lean over the table, sit closer to. him. Like I was so just like Yes. drawn. to him. Like I don't know how to explain. it. It was so It was different than like. when you meet someone and you're like, I. could see this working and I'm like. planning in my head and I'm like doing. the calculation of like how this would. work out and like, okay, you're like. that and I'm like this and this would be. good. It was just like like, whoa. I was.

head empty. I was not head full of. I'm going to get him math. I was head. empty. I was just like, hi. He's good. I don't know. We're all just like. swooning in here like, whoa. Keep going. No, that is like that's when you know. there's something special. What if you. had to say, what do you love the most. about him? Hm. That's hard. I mean, he's so. like freakishly.

like adjusted isn't the right word, but. like. there's nothing I could ever bring up. that would freak him out. There's like. no conversation we can't have like in. like a. like he's so solution oriented. Like. everything. between the two of us is always like. it's always with the. the goal of solution and bettering. And. like, you know, we're never like locked. into like. who's going to win this or who's going.

to whatever. Also, he's just like. I remember when I first when I first. started seeing him, I was like, "What's. it going to be?". I was like, "You are like. super successful. You've been in this. business for like a really long time. You are smoking hot, and everyone on the. planet knows it.". Mhm. I was like, "What's wrong with. you?". And he was so nice, and he was so. family-oriented, and like I was like,

"Oh, you're about to be the biggest. psychopath in the world.". you're about to ruin my life. to be the final boss. Like, you can't be. like this and I was like, "There's going. to be What like whatever's wrong with. you is going to be like FBI's most. wanted. Like, you're going to be. secretly like have bodies in your. basement. Like, you something You have. to have the worst thing ever wrong with. you." And then it was like, I was kind. of like unsure for like a while. Like. And then like, you know, as time went. on, well, first I met his parents, and. they're. [ __ ] lovely. And so, that's where I. was kind of like, "Oh, maybe this is. real. Maybe he is just that great cuz. he's great parents and like raised him.

really well.". Yep. And then, you know, he. he has got a he has a relationship with. my son now, you know, and just like. watching the way that he shows up for my. son in like such a. authentic way. I was like, "Okay, you. really are just like the best person.". And then came the panic of me being. like, "Well, I don't deserve someone. that great." Mhm. And so, I had to kind. of like. it was short-lived, but I had that. little process of like, "Whoa, oh my. god, if he really is that great, then. like what the hell is he doing with me?".

You know, and I And then I had to kind. of like. I had to start seeing myself. I had to value myself more. You know. what I mean? Where I had to be like, "Well, I'm also really ambitious, and. I'm a really good mom, and like I create. like a really welcoming and like safe. environment. I'm really patient. I'm. really um communicative, and I'm. rational, and I am, you know, supportive. and proactive and like I got to start. seeing myself like in that way. Yeah. To have peace and to not enter.

like a cycle of insecurity, you know? Dude, that must have been so refreshing. because I think when you are met by a. healthy. good partner. Mhm. who We all have our own [ __ ] but. like someone that's genuinely trying to. be like, "No, I really want to make this. work and I don't want to [ __ ] you up and. I don't want to be [ __ ] up and I want. to do this together." Like you just. start to raise your standard for. yourself of like how you are going to. show up. And like you said, it's so beautiful. like with your child knowing how you.

care for a whole ass human being and how. you show up for your child to see a. partner like come into your life and be. able to not only like embrace you guys, but also add value to the dynamic. Like. that's so. [ __ ] refreshing and probably nice for. you. Yeah, it also forced me to do everything. like really, really in the right way. You know what I mean? Like. That's amazing. Becoming a single mom. was like a real grown-up wake-up call. for me. That was like a moment where I. was like, I can't just like. like, you know, skirt past this. Like.

you know, this has changed the entire. dynamic of my life. Like it's changed. everything about like. my own feelings of hurt and wanting to. act on those versus like what's right. for my child and like, you know, I had to. I had to like. I had already like speed run grown-up. when I became a mom, but then I had to. like secondary like speed run grow up. where like I grew out of that not.

wanting to be inconvenient or not. wanting to be a problem or not wanting. to be clingy or not wanting to be extra. Like I I had to grow out of that to date. again as a single mom where it's like I. wasn't in a situation where like, you. know, I'm if you're like I couldn't be in a. situation where I'm like texting a guy. or like a girl or talking to whoever, and I'm like, "Hey, so like do you want. to make plans for next week?" And. they're like, "Oh, I'm not really like. big into plans. You go see you when I. see you." Like I couldn't be like, "Okay." Like how do you back I'm a mom. I have a schedule. Do you want to see me. or not? And if you don't, then like bye.

You know what I mean? And so it was like. I it just like it forced me out of being. able to. like accidentally. like people please I guess like make. myself smaller because I was like I. can't. Right. So like what's up? You. know. No, that is like so beautiful to hear. and I'm so happy for you in like. everything you've shared today. I feel. like that has like. beautifully led you to where you're at. now where like you're engaged, you are a. mother, like you are so successful, you.

have this new album coming out which we. have to talk about. Like like I said, I. was listening to it and like there is a. lot in this album. Yeah. And it's called The Great. Impersonator. Yeah. What is the meaning behind the. title? Call Her Daddy is brought to you. by White Claw. I don't know who needs to hear this, but. you are way too hot to be spending the. summer sitting inside and just scrolling. on your phone, okay? We are getting. those bikinis out of storage and we are. getting out of the group chat, too,

okay? I want all of us to have fun this. summer and you know what goes perfect. with a seven UV index and yapping with. your girls? A cold can of White Claw, okay? I'm just getting back from Unwell. Spring Break in Miami and let me tell. you, there is nothing more refreshing than a. cool, crispy White Claw by the pool. You. give me a mango White Claw and a lounge. chair, I'm set for the day, okay? Daddy. gang, it is officially White Claw.

summer. They've got only 100 calories in. 12 glorious oz. Plus, they're. gluten-free and have the taste you know. and love. I always like to grab a. variety pack so everyone can have their. favorite flavor from peach to black. cherry to mango. You truly can't go. wrong. My personal favorite is OG black. cherry through and through. I cannot be. stopped when I get one in my hands. It's. time to celebrate the end of hibernation. season. Summer is around the corner and. it's time to get out and get after it. Cheers to that, okay daddy gang. Let's.

go find a guy with a boat and grab a. claw. Pick up a pack from your local. favorite spot and grab life by the claw. with your favorite flavor this summer. Tell them your founding father sent you. Please drink responsibly. Hard seltzer. with flavors. White Claw seltzer works. Chicago, Illinois. What is the meaning. behind the title? I think it's, you. know, it's sort of. it's like a double entendre. Okay. You know, like on the one hand I think.

it kind of touches on some of what we've. talked about this time was there's me. figuring out that Halsey's kind of. serving as more of an alter ego than. like just a stage name. and like kind of admitting that and like. coming forward and being like, "I've. built a career off of being really. honest and authentic and maybe I haven't. been as honest and authentic as I. thought the past couple years. I maybe I. have more to say. And what forced me. into that was obviously getting so sick. that I thought I was going to die. You. know, like when you think you're going. to die, you have an existential crisis. that is just like indescribable.

to. your former self. Like you kind of have. to like live through it to understand it. and like I just started looking at. myself. and. being like, "Okay, if you do die, is. this. you're happy with this? This is how. everyone's going to remember you? It's. like the last thing you did, last thing. you said? Like have, you know, we tell ourselves a lot of time we have. more time and like we do, but like. nothing is promised to us. So there's. times where I was like like example, like the song about my dad, I told you.

it was like I was like, "I'll do it on. the next album. I'll do it on the next. album." cuz I was too scared. And with. this one I I "Might not be a next album, [ __ ] Put it out." Speak your truth. There might not be a next album. You. know, and so it kind of like forced me. into the situation where I was like, "I. have to just act and do and be as. truthful as I possibly can.". But I started thinking about fate a lot. I started thinking like, "Okay, does. everything happen for a reason, right? Like I'm born in 1994. Does that Is that how I end up Halsey? Is because like I'm born at the right. time at the right moment? Like if I'm.

born 10 years earlier, 5 years later, do. I end up famous? Do I end up an art. teacher? Do I end up like in jail? Like. what am I, you know?" And then so I was. like, "What if I debuted in the '70s? Like what if I debuted in the '80s, the. '90s?" Like I started exploring all. these different like. versions of me making music in like. different decades. So in a sense I'm. kind of like impersonating. other. you know, stars of of that time and kind. of. doing an exploration or like a thought.

experiment on that. Cuz it's like. the big thing that kept coming up when I. got sick was a lot of people. like in the medical field. were pretty adamant with me like, "You're sick because of your job.". Interesting. some said it just directly and some, you. know, in not so many words. Just kind of. like, "Well, like stress and like lack. of sleep and traveling and jet lag, poor. nutrition, putting strain on your body.". Like these things can trigger autoimmune.

diseases and the particular autoimmune. disease I have, lupus, can trigger um. you know, it can can trigger leukemia, lymphoma, like a lot of a lot of like. blood cancers and like lymph cancers are. more more common in people who have. chronic, you know, autoimmune. conditions. And so they all kind of just. trickle down to this like you're. stressed out all the time kind of thing. So that led me to be like, you know, becoming Halsey was like the. craziest thing that's ever happened to. me in my life, but like is this a. consequence of that?

You know, and like does it go this way? No matter what, if I become Halsey, this. is how my life goes. Am I a single mom? Am I sick? Am I like is there any way to. like beat that fate or beat that. destiny? Right. Can I ask like how are you feeling. today? Pretty good. Yeah, I like I came. back from. I came back from New York. I was there. for the VMAs and I noticed I was kind of. starting to have a flare, like a lupus. flare. Okay. Um. and I haven't had one in a little while.

cuz you know my disease has been like, you know, in remission. Yep. And. I was kind of like. thinking about it. I was thinking about. how like a lot of my fans or a lot of my. audience that's also dealing with. chronic illness, they say to me all the. time I'm like, I don't know how you do. that. Like you must be so much stronger. than me. Like I can barely get out of. bed or I can barely go to school. And. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I don't want you thinking that. I'm. stronger than you or like you can't. accomplish as much as me. Like.

I went and did the VMAs. I worked really. hard that whole week and then I had a. flare as a consequence of that. That's. reality. That's the risk and you guys, like the fans, like you're the reward. Yeah. And I have to kind of like balance. that every time I do something. It's. just like knowing that that's a. possibility and kind of adapting to that. new normal. And like so what happens. then is like I have to rest or I have to. go get treatment or I have to like, you. know, I have to change certain things, but it's by no means because like I'm. built differently than anyone else. It's. like I'm also in a significant position.

of privilege compared to most people who. are dealing with chronic illness, you. know, in terms of like, you know, the. the treatments I can get, the access. that I can get, like um. and so I'm just using all of those. things to kind of to mitigate what is my. new normal. I definitely had a situation. like a couple. a couple like weeks ago. Um and that's why I'm kind of like. chuckling to myself about this flare. because I did the thing where I was. like, I'm feeling so good. I don't know. if I need treatment anymore." And so I.

was like, "I'm going to stop treatment. Like I don't want to put this stuff in. my body. Like I'm going to be fine.". It's like Also it's like, "Bitch, you. didn't learn your lesson when you did. that with antidepressants." Like first. of all, but then like, you know, I was. like, "I'm feeling really good. Like I. don't think I need to do it anymore.". And like, you know, "I'm putting all. this these medicines in my body." And. like maybe I can just do it with like. diet and like with whatever. And. I stopped for like a little bit. I like. skipped the treatment. Boom. Immediate flare. I was like on the. flight home and like one of the first.

signs of a lupus flare is you get this. butterfly-shaped rash across your. cheeks. Yeah. I got up to like go use the. restroom on the plane. I looked in the. mirror and I was like, "Fuck. You've got to be [ __ ] kidding me.". And I kind of like had to like I like. walked ashamed back to my seat and like. sat down and was like, "Damn." That was. a sad moment for me cuz I was like. I had felt so good. Like, you know, I. was like on TV and on the carpet. And I. was like, "I'm doing it again. I'm. great. Everything's good." And like made. me like kind of emotional cuz I was kind. of like I'm still sick. That's still.

reality. Like this is forever now. That. was hard. You know, I couldn't just be. like, "Well, that was crazy those 2. years. Haha, moving on." Like I had to. be like, "No, this is still This is. forever." I'm still like coming to terms. with that like little by little. I can. only imagine how hard that is. And like. I I think in different capacities. everyone can. find a way to relate to that feeling of. like, "Oh, no, no, no, I don't need this. anymore. I'm going to be fine." And then. it you go back to not being fine and. you're like, "This is so emotionally.

heavy to deal with." But I do think that. it's incredible that you have been open. as much as you want to be about that. because I do again believe it helps. other people realize like someone that. is as successful as you also is just not. living this perfect fairy tale life. And everything's [ __ ] fine. Like. everything you're writing about in this. album is so [ __ ] real. Like. What is the hardest song that like you. wrote like to write? of the spider. Really? Yeah, that was like the hardest. It's.

like just like me and a piano. Kind of. sounds like a voice note like a little. bit and every time I hear it I cry. Just like hearing my voice like in that. state. And I wrote that song about being sick. and about just like feeling like such a. burden and also just feeling disgusting. I felt so gross and so terrible about. myself when I was sick. It's like. you know, I was like. I was really gaunt and like my face.

changed and my face had just my face and. body had just changed cuz I just had a. baby. You know, I was pregnant like I. went through all those changes and then. it changed again like this when I got. sick so fast, you know? And um. I was like vomiting but then like you. know, I was like brushing my teeth made. me scared cuz I was scared it was going. to induce more vomiting and like I was. I was I was just so sick and so gross. and like I felt revolting. Like I didn't.

feel good about myself at all and like. you know, I I felt. I felt you know, kind of trapped in like. this cycle of. feeling resentment from. people close to me, you know? Um. some real, some imagined, you know? Think both. Um. and. just kind of this feeling of like.

everyone had depended on me for so long. And I I kind of like it was a hell of my. own design cuz I told everybody for so. long like I don't need help. I can take. care of myself. And then I needed help and everybody was. like, "What do you mean? Like, you. conditioned us to believe that you take. care of yourselves, and now you're. getting mad at us cuz we're not helping, but we don't know how to cuz you've. never let us before.". You know, and so that was really really. hard. Um.

But also just kind of feeling like, "God, what a How dare I inconvenience. you so much by. by being dying?" Right. I was going to. say like like. But again, going back to everything. you've shared today, like you're used to. being the one that's taking care of and. fixing everyone. So like to ask for help. must feel just so unnatural to you. But. like you need help from people. You need. support. You need people to be there for. you. But it's hard to ask when you're.

someone that is not used to asking. Yeah. A big thing for me was like a lot. of my relationships I felt like because. I'm traveling all the time and because. I'm gone and because I am really like. insulated and self-sufficient in that. way where it's like, you know, I feel. like when you're in the public eye or. like you are like, you know, you're. financially like secure in the way that. like you are in the business, it changes your friendships, right? Cuz. like I'm moving, right? I don't have to. ask my friends to come help me move. because I'm just going to move like get. the moving company and do the thing or.

like I need someone to pick me up from a. surgery or like take me to the dentist. or like, you know, whatever. And it's like I'll get a. driver. It's like, you know, you lose. that kind of like village community we. look out for each other kind of thing, but then on the flip side I'm always. taking care of stuff for other people. You know what I mean? So it changes the. dynamics of the relationship. I'm also a. spiritual person, so I also believe. sometimes that like you will end up in. situations where if your like spirit. guide or your guardian angel or whatever.

it is that you believe knows that you. won't make a hard decision for yourself, they'll kind of put you in a position. where the other person does it for you, but it's for you. You know what I mean? Yes, like you can feel it when it's. happening. Yeah. This whole album is incredible. I'm so excited for you. Last two. questions, I promise. Um one, what are. you most excited to perform? What song? Okay. There's two for two different reasons. I. really can't wait to play "Panic Attack". cuz it's just like such a musical song. Like it's got like the piano the piano's. so warm and the guitar's so great and.

the drums are so like I just imagine I'm. going to get on stage and feel like I'm. a part of like a big band, like a '70s. big band, you know what I mean? And like. with all the musicians on stage just. like twirling around, like it's very. Laurel Canyon, like, you know, it's got. that like Fleetwood Mac vibes. So I. can't wait to do that cuz I just feel. like it's going to be so like classic. Um but then definitely the only living. girl in LA. It's a 6-minute song. So. like I don't know how I'm going to play. it live, but I think there's so many fun. moments for the fans to like join in on.

like ad-libs and stuff that it's going. to feel like we're performing it. together. And I love when a song feels. like you and the audience are doing it. together not like you're doing it at. them, you know? It's so sad and. beautiful and listening to it I was. like, "Halsey, I wanted to like give you a hug." I was. like, "This is so [ __ ] sad, but it's. so It's really an incredible song." I. mean, every single song is incredible. and you're such an incredible writer, but I'm just so happy for you because. you are clearly so talented and.

everything that you have gone through in. your career and your personal life to. see this new work of art that you've put. together is truly incredible and I. wouldn't say that if I didn't feel that. way. Like listening to it in my car, I. also chose to listen to it in the car. cuz I was like, "I need this in the. car." That's Yeah, I was like, and I I'm so happy I got to meet you. because your energy and your spirit and. just who you are as a person, like it. does change my fandom over you even. more. Like I feel like an even bigger. fan after getting to speak with you.

today. Thank you for like taking the. time today cuz it was I think the Daddy. Gang is going to freak out over this and. I know your fans will, but thank you for. giving me the time. Oh my gosh, of. course. Also, you have to teach me how. to plan a wedding. I don't know what I'm. doing. Trust me. no idea. I'm really overwhelmed. Trust me, I've got you, because I was. like I didn't even know what I would. want to wear. I was like the antithesis. of a bride when I first started, and. like I figured it out. Well, I told you I never wanted to be. married, so when I'm talking to people. are like when you were a little girl, what did you dream about? Like.

Nothing. And I was like I did I didn't. I have no. idea. Right, like being a psychopath. I'm just obsessed with my fiance, and I. just like [ __ ] like want to like I. want to crawl inside his skin and be. like a part of him, and like I need a. wedding where like I can either do that. and it's not weird, or like it there's. something in place that prevents me from. trying to do it, you know? Halsey, I could not relate more to you, and I will give you all of the wedding. tips that you need. Thank you for coming. on Call Her Daddy. It was an honor.

Thank you.