Gayle King: He Cheated with My Close Friend

What is up, Daddy gang? It is your. founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call. Her Daddy. >> Gail King, welcome to Caller Daddy. >> I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you so. much. >> Oh, I'm so so happy to be here with you. I know you're also very busy. So, thank. you for taking the time to sit down with. me. >> Like, you're not busy. We are We are, as. the kids say, booked and busy. And you. are one of the kids. >> No. [laughter]. >> So, are you, Gail? Okay. >> I feel like one of the kids. Honest to.

God, I feel like one of the kids. >> No, you just told me. You're like, you. did your whole morning show. You're here. and then you're going to be on Broadway. later. I'm like, >> yes. Yes. Yes. >> And no time for. >> Broadway Tonight. Broadway Tonight. >> Okay. For the past 14 years, you have. been hosting the CBS Morning Show. And. in addition to that, you are the editor. at large of Oprah Daily. >> Yes. >> You have had such a successful career. And I'm just so excited to get into all. of it with you today. I realized. something though. >> What? >> Last time we were together.

>> Yep. >> We kind of went viral. Actually, you. went viral. >> No, you went viral. >> No, no, no. You went viral because you. >> What happened? >> Okay, let's tell the people if they're. not familiar. >> What happened? >> So, I went on Gail's show and. >> CBS Mornings. Yes, she did. Yes. >> CBS Mornings, you know. And Gail. proceeds to ask me what my favorite sex. position with my husband is. >> Like, that's an unfair question to you. And absolutely fair question. However, I. swore I saw like the cameraman drop to.

the [laughter] ground. The lights are. like falling. People are running in the. background. Your on air host. >> calling standards literally. And your. co-hosts were like they didn't they. everyone looked shocked. The paramedics. came rushing in. Did anyone know that. you were planning to ask me that? >> No. No. Okay. I figured. >> And it and it's not like I was thinking. what would be fun. It's just that Alex, my thing is I believe anything can be. asked. It depends. But you have to have. the right setting, the right inflection, the right person, like you know, and I.

wouldn't ask that of most people, but. because you are you and what you do, I. knew you would get the joke. >> I. >> I knew you would get the joke. >> I so got the joke. And it was It's so. crazy when the internet runs with things. because I'm like, "Guys, this has been. this is this is what I got started on. this is how I did get my success or my. money or whatever you want to say like. that was the origin days right and so I. love that you paid ode to it but. literally people's faces were like. >> I was also laughing cuz I'm like what if.

I did answer it [laughter] like they. like tackle me to the ground okay but. being on a morning show. >> yes. >> we need just to hear it from you like. what is the morning routine and how. early are you waking up what's going on. >> I mean it's crazy I wear this watch so I. can figure out how much sleep I'm not. getting which I'm very worried about you. as a mother to be, you going to have to. do better than I am. Like last night, I. got 4 hours and 8 minutes of sleep. Gale, >> that is that is not good. >> That's not good. >> But this schedule that I have, there's. for me, there's no way around it. So, I.

don't get great sleep. You know, you get. hot flashes sometimes. Yours are coming. later. You You can wait for that. So, my. schedule's nuts. I I I like to take a. bath every day. Some people do showers. I like bath. Do you like showers or. baths? I like both, but I have to be in. a specific mood for my bath. >> Oh, no. I have a bath every day. So, I'm. sitting there in the tub with all the. bubbles. I like bubbles. Cara comes and. picks me up. Then you go to the studio. We have meetings before the show. I. have, you know, hair and makeup. You. know, a little something about that cuz.

I don't wake up this cute. It takes a. village. >> And then we're off to the races. >> What time do you wake up? >> The alarm goes off at 3:24. So, I need. three snoozees. What? I can't I'm not. one of these people, maybe you are, that. the alarm goes off, you jump out of bed. I need three. No, I need three snoozes. >> I need a little bit of time, too. >> No, I sort of crawl out of bed, turn on. the bath water, crawl back into bed, and. do three snooze. >> Oh, you go right into the bath. >> Yes. Yes. Yeah. >> Wow. >> Then it's like, wake up. >> And so, you're going to be out late. tonight. >> Well, this is unusual. I try not to stay.

out too late, but this is going to be a. different kind of night because they. asked me, would you turn this down? >> Uh, Rita Wilson, you know her, she's. putting together a group of people to do. to read celebrity biographies on stage. And so she said, "Would you be willing. to do it?" "Yes, I'd be willing to do. that." There are some things, Alex, you'll see that are worth staying up. late on a school night. This is one of. them. >> But usually, what time do you go to bed? >> Well, it's not good. >> Well, >> you're like, "Don't ask me. >> I'm not out, but it's not good.". >> I know. I feel like I remember when I. watched the morning show with Reese and.

Jennifer and I was like, "This is so. crazy that it is dead dark outside and. you ladies are just getting and it's. your real life. They're just acting it. You're living it.". >> Yep. But I still love it. >> You love it. You love it. I do. >> Before obviously you were Gail King in. terms of just your massive success and. everyone knowing your name and who you. are. Um I want to go back. >> You had to pay your dues. You were a. production assistant at a local TV. station in Baltimore.

>> Can you talk to me about like early on. what do you think made you stand out? >> Well, I have always been um a chatty. person. You know, I can remember in. fourth grade my parents getting a note. Dear Mr. and Mrs. King, Gail is very. bright, but she talks a lot in class and. tends to be disruptive. I say all this. to say I've always been curious about. what people are doing and how they do. it. So, what made me stand out is people. could feel that about me. And there's a. difference between being a brown noser.

and being really genuinely interested in. what you're doing. I don't know how to. explain it, but I do know the difference. between somebody that's just kissing. your ass just because or somebody who's. genuinely interested. I was always. genuinely interested. And so that stood. out to people. I always say, get a job. When you get a job, make sure the boss. knows your name, but in a good way. I. was that type of kid. >> Okay. That's what I was going to ask you. for a young woman right now getting into. the workforce. Yeah. >> What advice would you give them to make. a strong first impression to have the.

boss know them in a positive way? Well, my whole thing is I I pride myself on. preparation. I'm always super prepared. I I I say preparation is my superpower. And when you are prepared, even if it. doesn't go according to plan, there's. always something you can pull out of. your back pocket to say, "Okay, well, that didn't go the way I planned. Let me. come up with something else." So, I. think you have to be super prepared. You. know, when you're on an interview, even. if you don't have a frigin question, ask. one. You know, I can see I can always.

tell interns who are going to make it. There are some that are sitting there, they're just looking at their watch. You. see them, too. And there are others that. are saying, you know, do you need. anything? How can I help you do blah. blah blah blah blah. You notice those. type of people. >> It's a good point. They're proactive. about their approach. >> Proactive. >> It's a great point. >> At that same job, Yes. >> in Baltimore is where you met your. lifong best friend, Miss Oprah Winfrey. >> This year we will have been friends, Alex, listen to this. For 50 years. No, we're going to get to that because when.

I found that out, it made me emotional. and also. >> well, >> you have a best friend. >> I do. And I think whenever you have that. like one person in your life, you're. like, "Oh my gosh, >> that is your person." And so you think. about that person in a way and like I. feel like you guys are the embodiment of. friendship, which I want to talk about. today. >> 50 years. >> Yes. Can you take me back to that night. that you guys met and like tell me what. happened? >> So, I'm the production assistant. She's.

the anchor and in newsroom hierarchy, I'm here and she's here. It was bad, bad. snowstorm and she invited me to spend. the night at her house. We didn't really. know each other well, but we were both, you know, 21, 22, young black single. women. I went to her house. I said, "But. I don't have any clothes." She goes, "I. have clothes." We were both size 10. then. I said, "You know, I don't have a. toothbrush." She goes, "I have, you. know, we can stop at the drugstore." I. draw the line. I'll stop and we'll get a. drug that we'll get a toothbrush. She. said, I said, "I don't have underwear.". She goes, "I have underwear. It's. clean." So that night, it's like, you.

must feel this about your best friend, Laura. You know her. >> Yeah. >> We went that night and we stayed up all. night talking. We found out we had. similar philosophies. Do you think so. and so is boinking? What do you think. about that? Or, I don't like so and so. and so. I heard her say one day on TV. where she goes, you know, I don't. believe in gossip. I called her up and. said, since when? Yesterday. So, but we. spent that whole night talking about. people and found out that we had similar. philosophies. We've been friends ever.

since. >> That is one of the best moments where. you're like, I know we should go to bed, but I cannot stop. And when you find. that with a girlfriend, it is true. >> It's stronger than almost anything you. can ever find in your life. Right. >> Cuz I find I know maybe you feel this. too. I know a lot of people, but when it. comes to true friendship, that circle is. very, very, very, very, very small. Cuz. you could tell her anything, >> anything. And you, you know, it won't be. betray. You will not be betrayed. >> And you're right. It's like there is of. course a beautiful element to different.

types of friendships, but the ones that. are like that is your person. >> It's the tiniest tiniest crew and it. should be that way. >> All you need is one. >> All you need is one. >> All you need is one. Call Her Daddy is. brought to you by T-Mobile. Okay, Daddy. gang. I am starting to think a night in. may actually be the new night life. Uh, where am I in my life right now? Okay, I. have been working so much lately that. all I want to do at the end of a long.

day is hang out on my couch. There is. just nothing better than getting into. comfy clothes, pulling out some of my. favorite snacks, curling up with Henry. and Bruce and Matt. You can join too, Matt, and doing absolutely nothing. And. on those nights in, T-Mobile has me. covered with value that keeps on. stacking up the more I use it. Like. streaming benefits and snack perks that. truly deliver. The math is mapping. With. so many perks and benefits, T-Mobile is.

basically making staying in a lifestyle. So, you know what? I love you even more. now, T-Mobile. Okay, my go-to recently. has been popping on a reality TV show, ordering a whole pizza, and hitting next. episode all night long with a side of. ranch. Okay, and if you have T-Mobile. like I do, you won't believe how good. staying in can be. Check it out at. t-mobile.com/magenta. status. Disclaimer, streaming benefits. included while you maintain a qualifying.

line in good standing. I'm curious like as you guys were coming. up in your careers, in what ways were. you able to lean on each other while you. were both navigating this very heavily. maledominated industry? >> I think most of the time we were just. oblivious. She and I both thought, you. know, you work hard, you do the job. You. know, we weren't thinking about we were. women. We weren't thinking we were. black. We were just thinking let's just. work and do a good job. And I think that.

was our mindset too very early on. And. it was only I know I know we laugh about. that now like god we were so naive. Of. course that was racism. Of course that. was sexist you know but that at the time. that is not the lens that we viewed it. through. We've looked back later now and. we can see things very differently. But. we were both just you know and then we. went off to different jobs but we still. stayed in touch. And it's been so. interesting to see, you know, because. she was Oprah Winfrey, now she's Oprah. Winfrey at Lights. What it was fun for.

me to see that that change. That was. kind of fun. >> That's something I wanted to ask you. about because. I think there is still this narrative. that there is only room for a select. amount of women to be at the top. And. people have such a I think a hard time. understanding like, well, how is there. not jealousy between you and Oprah? How. is there not and I have even said like. seen like there are literal people who. have said like oh well Gail you're just. existing in Oprah's shadow like how have.

you both navigated in a in a form like. getting pitted against each other. >> Well my thing is this Alex I say I never. see myself in her shadow. I always say I. see myself in her light and I do mean. that I see myself in her light. I have. never not once thought God I wish I. could be her. I think I can do what she. does because I don't believe that. I. think as as as alike as we are, there. are also some differences. Like I love. people. I love lights, camera, action.

And Oprah's very fine sitting at home. with a book. Like I can remember in. Chicago, Princess Diana was in town. Princess Diana that a private party I. called to say, "What are you wearing?". She goes, "I'm not going." I go, "You're. not going?" She goes, "No, I have this. This is I mean I would have trampled. little children had I been invited to. something like that. >> Oprah we got to go. She's like babe I'm. on chapter 20. I know exactly. That's. exactly right. >> Oh interesting. >> I was in Connecticut. She's in Chicago. So I called to say what are you wearing?

What time? Blah blah blah blah blah. She. goes no I I have X Y and Z to do that. That is not how I live. if I have a. once-ina-lifetime experience. And that. is a once ina-lifetime experience, except later on she did have a private. lunch with Princess Diana at the palace. back in the day. So there yes, there's. there's that's called flex. >> Yeah. You're like, hold on, hold on. Where's my invite for that? Hold on. >> I am not passing up once in a-lifetime. experiences. >> I get that.

>> But I am happier for her sometimes than. she is for herself. And I had my own. life, too. That's what's so beautiful is. like when you have a friendship where. you're both trying to succeed and and. I've been talking about this a lot with. my friends because we're all on. different paths. Success also looks. different to everyone, right? Is it a. job? Is it family? Is it whatever it be, friendship? Um, but I think there's so. much intense fixation specifically on. women when it comes to this and it just. isn't for men for some reason. Do you.

think that we've made any progress that. like one woman's success doesn't take. away from the others? Like do you think. people are starting to be more. acclimated to that concept? >> I would like to think so. I would I. would like to think so because the truth. of the matter is there really is room. And so just because you have something, it doesn't take anything away from me. When you feel good about yourself, and. [snorts] I do, when you feel good about. yourself, it's only if you don't feel. that you measure up that maybe you're. jealous of somebody.

>> I also just feel like, speaking of 50. years, >> you both have probably been there for. each other. >> in the darkest, hardest moments. >> And she's been down and usually if she's. down, you're up. And if you're down, she's up. And that is friendship where. it's like someone has to in the moment. be the anchor when the other person's. going through it. And it always should. be flip-flopping because that's life, right? And if it is always one person. that's needing it, needing it, needing. it, then that's probably not as balanced.

of a friendship. And it feels like you. guys have been able to navigate decades. together in this beautiful push and pull. of you need me, I got you, I need you, I. got you. It's that's just how it is. Will there be a party for this 50th. anniversary? >> I know. You know, the other day, uh, about a month ago, she said, "I think. she said, I'm thinking about having a. friendship party and telling everybody. to come and bring their Oprah, bring. their Gail." Wouldn't you guys come? >> I like that idea.

>> Gail. >> Yeah. >> I actually have never asked anyone this. because [laughter]. I wouldn't, but um, yeah, I would love. an invite to that party. >> No, the friendship party. Whether. whether it's male, female, sister. Yes. To c just celebrating friendship and you. know people that have a true friend. understand what this is. >> You know the other people that don't. they go well you know they're blah blah. blah fill in the blank about whatever. you want to say about us. But people who. have a true friendship women in. particular really get it. They get it.

They really get it. And that's why I was. so excited to talk to you about this. because I feel like a lot of my. listeners right now are at this impass. where they're in their maybe 20s, late. 20s, 30s. And friendship. sometimes can put get put on the back. burner when everyone's trying to find. their person, right? >> Or they don't have friends, Alex. >> So many people these days don't even. have friends. >> And it feels it can feel so isolating. You can feel really disconnected. And I. find that the most beautiful.

relationships in my life, of course I. love my family and my husband, but like. really having that girlfriend or those. girlfriends that can have your back, it. made me emotional for you when um Oprah. said this about you when Barbara Walters. interviewed her a few years ago and she. said, "She is the mother I never had. She is the sister everyone would want. She is the friend that everyone. deserves. I don't know a better person.". And she said she never really expressed. that before. Like what is.

>> I got choked up watching that. I'm. sitting there watching Barbara Walters. eating my popcorn [laughter]. and then I called her and I said, "Oh my. god, I can't believe what you just. said." Cuz I never thought about myself. in that capacity, all those things to. her to her. But but we do have a very. unique bond. I got in trouble once when. I said, you know, cuz I'm single, alert, and available. I said, "If I could meet. a guy that was like Oprah, I'd be done.". And then people took that all out of. context as they often do. I mean, I.

said, you know, when I die, I'd like to. come back as one of her dogs. They. travel very well, Alex. Cashmere private. planes. Sign me up. I want to come back. [laughter]. >> Shallow. >> I am so coming back as one of Opra's. dogs. I'm right there with you. I don't. care if that's shallow. Okay. Wait. Two. things. Number one, why do you think. that you never thought or saw yourself. like that when you heard Oprah say that. about you? Because we're just living our. lives. People say, "What do you guys do?

What do you talk about?" I go, "Everything and nothing." You know, don't you call in, you don't even have. anything really to talk about other than. what you doing? [laughter]. >> You're like eating in the pantry. You're. walking around your kitchen. >> No, mine is Betty Crocker chocolate. frosting out of the can. >> Love, love. You're just like eating your. frosting like so Oprah and she's like. Gail. >> be like what are you what are you doing. you know so it could be big things it. could be little things. >> Isn't that interesting though that. sometimes the closest people to us in. our life we don't say those things.

>> No no I I but it took me a back to think. that I I was that or I am that. But I. feel that about her too. You all you. need she number one she knows I would. never betray her. People come to me. I. also think once you've been in the inner. circle, even if we had a falling out. today, I I would not I would not say I. would not write a book. I wouldn't do. any of that stuff that I see people do. because once you've been in the inner. circle of anyone's life, it's a really. privileged place to be. And I I hold.

that very sacred. I know I can trust her. with anything. And she me everyone has. it. Different degrees. Obviously, being. public people is one thing, but everyone. has it. Whether it's high school, college, you're at your job, like. anything when it comes to loyalty and. trust, there is such there are people. who want to blindly trust and want to. believe in the good and humanity and. believing in people and the connection. that you're building right in front of. your face. And when you find out. something happened behind closed doors. that you somehow find out about,

>> it's so disorienting and it makes you. really rethink a lot of things going on. around you. It does, >> but it doesn't make you rethink those. people that have always been your day. ones. >> I mean, that's why, you know, Oprah has. such a good Spidey sense. I can remember. uh when I I had a boyfriend in high. school who I just thought was the. cutest. Da da da da. I hadn't talked to. him in 20 years and he reached out to me. and said, you know, he would like to see. me. And I was like, yes, I would love to. see you. And Oprah said, don't bring him. to your house. I go, why? And she said,

cuz you haven't talked to him in 20. years. You don't know him. I go, yeah, but he was da da da da. She goes, "I'm. telling you, don't bring him to your. house.". >> Did you bring? Of course, I brought him. to my house. >> So, I met in New York and I said, "I met. in New York." And I said, "I like how. this is going. Come back." I lived in. Connecticut at the time. And so, we. brought him back to the house in. Connecticut. And uh she called and said, "How'd it go?" I go, "It was great." She. said, "You didn't bring him in the. house." I go, "No, I didn't. You You. told me not to. Of course, I didn't. bring him back to the house." She goes,

"Well, that's interesting. You didn't. So, you didn't bring him." I go, "No, I. didn't. Why are you asking?" And she. said because the National Inquirer has. called and they said they have a uh. they're calling with a story from and. said his name that he said he spent the. weekend with you and that he was at your. home and that there is a shrine to Oprah. in your home which is absolutely not. true. There's a shrine to Oprah in your. home and he has evidence of that and. they wanted to know if I had a comment. about that.

>> So I was totally busted. totally totally. busted only to find out Alex he was a. cocaine addict. >> So there was a time that I had fallen. asleep. We had we had had burgers. It. was great. We were cooking on the grill. We were in the hot tub. And I did fall. asleep cuz I felt safe. Mr. Man had gone. around taking pictures. Had pictures of. me sleeping [gasps] and was offering to. sell it to the National Enquirer. And. Oprah but Oprah she set me up so. beautifully. She said, "So you didn't.

bring them?" No, cuz you said no. Don't. bring them. No, we we went to a play. I. said, and then we went to a restaurant. I named all we went for a carriage ride. in Central Park. She's like, you weren't. wearing your blue nighty last night and. you weren't sleeping to the left side at. Zach 11 cuz he took a picture of you and. you're like, [ __ ] [laughter]. >> So, the goal, basically the whole rule. is always trust Oprah. Like, oh, >> that's a good rule. >> Literally, always [laughter] trust. Oprah. Wait, Gail. No, he also but even.

that first of all the lack of privacy. and the complete invasion of the. complete lack of boundaries, the. entitlement, the like the intentions are. so off. Clearly, he had a vision of what. he wanted to do that night. Poor. >> Alex, I don't think he liked me. [laughter]. >> Alex, I think the whole thing was a. setup. So, I felt stupid with two O's. >> I would say no. Oh, no. But the shrine. comment, you're like, he had an agenda.

>> He had an agenda. A shrine of Oprah is. actually psychotic. >> And then he went through the 12step. program where you're supposed to call. people that you've offended or something. or whatever the word is. He called. because he wanted to apologize. That's. when I heard he was a cocaine addict at. the time and he just wanted to apologize. to me. And I was like, boy, bye. >> You're like, you know what? Yeah, >> I wish I kept you back in high school. and you should have stayed there because. what the hell? >> But he was cute. >> and he was taking pictures of you. sleeping. Not so cute. Um, okay. Wait,

Gail, also in memory of uh, you know, the shrine and also you saying that. people people literally to the point. have made comments that they are like. >> there's no way this isn't a romantic. relationship. >> I know. I know. And. >> I know. >> I just I I don't even want to speak for. you, but like tell me how that feels. when you guys have had to handle those. headlines, handle those rumors, handle. that speculation. Tell me. >> Well, I tell you this, it used to really.

bother me. I I was recently divorced and. there was the National Enquirer did a. story about that's the reason for the. divorce because they're secretly gay. Number one, if we were gay, we would. tell you because believe me, there's. nothing wrong with it. is just I prefer. a man. I prefer a man. So, so we would. tell you and then I would say to her, "You've got to say something on your. show because it's hard enough for me to. get a date on a Saturday night and now. people think I'm a lesbian. You've got. to say something." And she said, "No, we. should just leave it be." I said, "No,

you've got to say she" She said, "No, I'm just leave it alone. Leave it. alone." So, well, that's fine for you to. say. You have somebody. I don't. So, it. used to really bother me and now even. today there's still people that say, "Well, you know, the truth is I don't. care." I've I've now gotten to the point. in my life that very few things get to. me because, you know, when you go on. social media, it is an accelerator on. hate. As long as I feel good about what. I'm doing, the people I respect and.

trust are okay with it, who will say, "Well, mom, maybe you shouldn't have. done that." Or somebody will somebody. whose opinion I value. Otherwise, you'll. drive yourself nuts. So now I really. don't care. I really. >> I am sorry though that you have to deal. with that because I also just feel like. that is a clear indicator the people who. are saying that there's two options. Number one, they have never had a. genuine gorgeous female friendship in. their life. But do you know what I mean? And then the other one is again it's for. the salaciousness and it's so sexist and. it's so it's it's just horrible that.

they put you in that position. But it is. also a weird thing. And again, I guess. we always should just listen to Oprah, but it's like when to speak up and when. not to, right? And that's a hard thing. that I'm sure you've had to navigate in. your career because in that moment, I. agree. You'd be like, "Hey guys, like. >> say something." Yeah. Sometimes when the. noise gets too much, >> I I I feel at least let me say my piece, whether it's about that or something. else, >> just so I'm on the record of it. But. most of the time I just I'm not going.

to, you know, there have been news. stories and they say TMZ is out front. Do you want to go out the back door? I. go, "No, I don't. I I I don't want to. look like I'm some criminal with my. thing over my head or I I So, my thing. is always be prepared." Sometimes you. can just say, "You know what? I don't. want to talk about that or I don't have. anything to say or good to see you, but. I don't want to look like I'm uh running. from running from something when I know. I haven't done anything wrong.". >> I think it's a great point. Call Her.

Daddy is brought to you by SoFi, the. all-in-one finance app where you can. bank, borrow, and invest. I want every. listener of this show to be financially. independent. That starts with tools that. make money feel manageable. SoFi helps. you take control step by step. Earn more. money on your money with a high yield. savings account from SoFi Bank. Get over. eight times the national average savings.

rate with eligible direct deposit. And. if credit card debt is holding you back, a SoFi personal loan can help you. consolidate and pay it down. Ready to. invest? Start in minutes with SoFi. Securities. And you could get up to. $1,000. in stock when you open and fund a new. self-directed brokerage account. Okay. Not everyone will win the jackpot, but. everyone will get some money to get. started. Terms apply. Learn more about.

how you can achieve all your ambitions. all in one app at sofi.com/call. herd daddy. Can I ask you a couple questions about. friendship for our listeners today? >> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> There is a really big conversation. online, especially around women right. now, about honesty and advice in. friendship. And I would love your take. At what point do you think being. brutally honest can become too much? And. like is there a line you can cross with.

friendship? >> I think it depends on the friend. I. think it depends on the friend. Um so I. would tell if if it's somebody I was. really close to, if I'm not so close, I'm staying out of it. So it really does. depend on the type of friendship that. you have. I used to joke with Oprah all. the time when people said, you know, what would you do if you caught Gail and. and Steman in bed together because I did. catch a friend in bed with my husband. What would you do? And I always say to. her, you shouldn't even be mad. You. should just say, "Oh, I can tell you're.

having a breakdown. Let me get you to. the hospital. I can tell there's. something very wrong. This is not you. You're having a breakdown. So here, hun, let me take you and let's go to the. hospital together to get you some help. because I would have lost my freaking. mind. I I that's just there's some lines. you just don't cross, >> right? You're like, "No, I would be I. would have to be admitted because I. [laughter] there's just no way." But. >> I done lost my mind. Yes. >> Okay, that's good. Has being radically. honest in a friendship ever backfired on.

you? >> Not a friendship that mattered. That's. the difference, Alex. Not a friendship. that mattered. And I also think like. kind of what you said like there it also. depends on the friend and it's very. important also your delivery like you. need to read where the friend is at. If. you know they just went through this. horrible thing and she you know she. needs to break up with the boyfriend but. she's not ready yet. You going in and. being like he you have to dump your not. [ __ ] boyfriend like you're just pouring. salt in the wound. It has to be a very. concerted effort to be thoughtful about.

the way that you're approaching it and. how you're delivering this to them. because they're clearly the ones that. are not in a positive situation right. now. Right. >> Exactly. Right. And you say, you know, please take this in the spirit in which. it's intended. And there's a difference. between being radically honest and being. cruel. >> Such a good point. And that just takes. reading the room and being a good person. to know [clears throat] when to go in. and be honest. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> I know Oprah had an opinion on your. ex-husband. >> Oh, Lord. Yes, she did. >> I want to talk a little bit more about. that marriage. >> Um I know cuz you just mentioned.

infidelity was one of the major reasons. that it ended. >> Yeah. >> And I want to get to that, but first. >> before the affair, how were you feeling about that. relationship? Like were you happy? >> It's a good question. I was happy. And. you know how they say the wife always. knows? I swear to God I did not. I did. not. And people say, "Well, of course. you know." No, I really didn't. Now, it. it's not like we hadn't had arguments or. anything, but I didn't think that it was.

in such disrepair that he was boinking. around. I did not I did not think that. >> When if you were happy, do you think it. shifted for you? >> Well, I mean, you know, hindsight is. always 2020. I always say if I was. writing a book, the first line in my. book would be whack the sound of a. tennis ball. And she said, "Nice shot, Bill." And the way she said it, there. was such a intimacy in her voice that I. had a the hair stood up on the back of.

my neck and I thought, why am I feeling. that way? It was weird. Why am I Cuz she. was married, too. We were married. We. both had two little kids. So, our our. kids were friends. The spouses were. friends. But there was something about. the way she said, "Nice shot, Bill.". that I then I I looked and it looked I. thought did I see them looking at each. other and when I asked him in the car. what are you talking about they try to. gaslight you by the way what are you. talking about. and so he goes absolutely not so I I did.

think oh you're just overreacting to. what I did have a visceral reaction to. that said I still didn't think anything. and and Oprah always says you know. sometimes you get a whisper and then. when you ignore the whisper then it. becomes a little pebble and then you. ignore the pebble and next thing you. know, you know, it keeps growing and. then you have a full-blown catastrophe. Mine was I came home and caught him. unexpect I wasn't due home. So, but you. know, people say the therapist said it.

probably had to be that extreme for you. to believe it because if you had caught. them and they weren't buck naked, Alex. in my freaking towel, if you hadn't seen. it, you might he might have said, "Oh, she was just over here. We were, you. know, we were um. >> working on something. >> Yes. Working on a pro something. >> Okay. Wait, can you take me to that day? Like, how did you walk in on that? >> Well, this was back in the day when you. would go I used to drive myself to the. airport then. >> Yes, you did. Yes, you did, Miss Kale.

King. before Uber and Lift and when you. call in a car service. But I drove. myself to the airport and the airline. would call you to say, "Listen, your. flight has been cancelled, but you can. get if you get on the next one, you can. get out of there." So I got I was in DC. and you know I Kirby and Will were. little. They were like two and three at. the time. So you know I said, "Guys, we. got to hurry go." I'd driven myself to. the airport. So I didn't even have time. to call and say, "Look, the flight was. da da da da. I'm coming home." I didn't.

have time to do anything. We jumped in, jumped, got to the airport, got in the. car, came home, and the alarm was set, which I thought, that's strange because. you're in here by yourself. You're a big. ass grown ass man. He never sets the. alarm. And next thing I know, he comes. flying out of the room and he's got a. towel on. He goes, "You can't come in.". What do you mean you can't? I can't come. in. What are you talking about? He goes, "You can't come here. Come in. Someone's. here." I go, "Someone like who? There's. nobody here. I mean, I was so oblivious.

There's nobody here. Get out of the way, Billy. There's nobody here. He goes, "Really? You can't come in." And I So, I. start searching the house cuz I didn't. believe him. I didn't believe him. I get. down and there they are. Or there she is. cowering behind the door in my towel. Alex was a nice bath sheet in my towel. In my towel. >> What did you say? I said, "I can't believe that you are. here and that you are doing this. I.

can't believe that you are doing this.". >> She was your friend. >> Yes. And I even said, "I thought we were. f I sounded so pitiful. I thought we. were friends.". >> And so your kids were in the house. How. did you manage? >> Well, I had a nanny. I had a nanny. >> Um she was from Jamaica and and I did. leave the kids outside because he was so. adamant. You know, they're you know, they're little toddlers. So Verge is. within with the kids and I said, "Verge, take the children and go to the back. room. Go to the back room and shut the.

door." And she said, "What what is it? What is this, Mom? What is it?" I said, "So and so is here. Let's give her a. nice name. What's a good name?". >> Casey. >> Yeah, Casey is here. And so she goes, and I said, "And they're naked." Now. Virgil is an old Jamaican woman. She. goes, "Lord of his mercy, Mom. Lord of. His mercy. Lord of his mercy." Oh, mom. She peed in your toilet, mom. I go, "Burge, I I don't need that right now. I. don't need that right now. Just take the. kids and just go in the back room and.

shut the door. Just so I went back and. they said, "Mom, is Aunt Casey here?". Cuz they could hear I said her name. Is. Aunt Casey here? I went, "No, no, no, she's not here. No, no, no. She's not. here. Uh, just stay back here." Now, when I the when when I opened the door, the alarm went off. And you know if you. don't shut it off in time, the police. come. >> Oh no. >> So the police came. >> Gail. >> The police came and they said, "Hey, oh. my god, it's Gail King." I was a local.

news anchor. So I was well known in the. local community. Hey, it's Gail King. Are you okay? I go, "Yeah, you know, I. was coming in. I didn't set off the. alarm in time. I'm so sorry." And they. said, "Could I get your autograph?" And. I'm just thinking, "Yeah, sure, sure, sure.". I wanted to say, "Could you take out the. trash?" But I didn't. But I didn't. And. I didn't want them to know because I. It's It's a type of thing that they. screw up, but you're thinking, "I don't. want anybody to know when I haven't done. anything wrong. I just wanted to get. them in and out as quickly as possible.".

>> How do you think it was? >> It was not a good night. >> No, Gail. But how do you think cuz sadly. I can imagine there are people actually. watching that have gone through. something like this. Like, how did you. stay so composed during that moment? Well, because I was thinking the kids. are here. I don't want anybody to know. That was my main thought. I don't want. anybody to know. That would not happen to me today. It. would be like get this da da da da and. take her da da da da. >> But, you know, I kept thinking, I don't.

want it to be a scene cuz they're. little. They know this person. Um. and you just my main thing was how do I. which is what I do about most things how. do I handle this situation in this. moment it was only later you know so the. first thing I do and he and she was. married and I said I'm calling him her. husband and he goes don't call cuz they. have a good marriage they have a good. marriage the the girl's pajama bottoms. are in my bed they have a good marriage.

don't call don't call where does he. think she is he thinks that she's away. at a conference or something. And so he said, "Please don't call." So. he goes, "I'm going to take her to the. train station so her husband can pick. her up so he won't know." So they left. and went to the train station. I called. Oprah. She Oprah goes, "Wait, let me get. this straight. He left you there alone. and went with her.". >> Gale, >> I know your mouth is open. And she said, "Oh, girl, you don't even know how bad. this is." And I'm going, "Yeah, but he.

said they had a good marriage. I mean, stupid. Oprah, I love having you as a. friend, but let's pretend we're not in. interview mode right now because that's. a really good point, but I don't want to. hear that [laughter] right now. Oprah, you're like, "Oh, that's such a good. point.". >> It was a good point. It. >> was a good point. >> But at the time, I couldn't hear it. though, Alex. I swear to you, I couldn't. hear it cuz I'm thinking, "Well, God, I. don't want to mess up everybody's life.". So, she said, "You don't even know how. bad this is.". >> So, you never called the husband? No. >> Did the husband ever find out? >> No. I called after talking to Oprah 2.

hours later. >> Was she your first call? >> Oh, yeah. She was definitely my I didn't. tell my mom. I'm close to my mom at the. time. My mom is no longer with us. I was. very close to my mom. I talked to my mom. every single day, twice a day because I. didn't want anybody to know. I've got. three sisters. Didn't tell them. The. only person I told was Oprah. The only. person. And then she said, "Well, [ __ ]. him. Call her husband." I go, "You think. I should call?" "Yes, call." Now, by now. it's been two hours. So, I call him and. he, you know what he said? He said, "She.

told me you would be calling. She said that you came home early. unexpected and you d you draw you drew. the wrong conclusion and she told me you. would call and say that you thought they. were having an affair. Masterful. Isn't that masterful? >> Masterful. >> So, so I'm expecting this call. So, he. said to me and and they were both. doctors, psychologists. as another layer. Um, he said to me,

"You are delusional and out of touch. with reality, and I suggest you get some. help." Well, then I said, "Okay, you. think I should get some help? Does your. wife have a pink satin pajama top? Does. she have some green mint panties that go. with that? And oh, by the way, um, give. me a guy's name.". >> Richard. By the way, Richard, there are. semen stains in my bed. So, am I. delusional and out of touch with.

reality? And then I said, "Go [ __ ]. yourself." And I hung up the telephone. >> I know. Wasn't I strong? I said, "Go. [ __ ] yourself.". >> Wasn't that good of me? >> Yeah. At first, >> but it took but it took over two hours. and Oprah saying, "Are you crazy? Are. you [ __ ] nuts? Call him." I went, "No, Abra can. He said blah blah." She. goes, "What he said, call him." to get. though that met with the delusion. I'm. delusional and out of touch with. reality. Yes.

>> The rage I would have felt of like I'm. the [ __ ] del. >> God, I haven't told all these details. This is not good. >> This is good. >> This is not good. [laughter]. >> This is Call her Daddy, Gail. Girls are. going to love you. >> This is not good. >> They're taking notes right now, baby. >> They're going to think she's But I I I. cry for that girl. >> No, I know. >> I cry for that girl. Gail, what's so. frustrating but also why I do love doing. this is like as women, we don't all have. an Oprah. >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And I think a lot. >> shouldn't we have common sense? >> Yes. But in those moments, I'm sorry, but when a man is calling you and saying. you're [ __ ] delusional. >> and out of touch with reality and you. should get professional help, add that. part. >> Right. Right. And he's the professional. Actually, you're like, but aren't you. the professional? emotions sometimes can take over and you. forget about common sense and you're in. that moment and then you can be like am. I the delusional one or or oh my gosh. you feel so isolated because they're all. on the same team and you're alone. So. many women go through that feeling and.

then you're left with. >> maybe it is my fault. >> Yeah. >> And and so it's like when we talk about. these things it is empowering to be like. no no no you saw what you saw. You did. nothing wrong. >> Yep. I did see what I saw. And so many. times somehow the woman who walks in and. see it's like. >> you are made to feel like the crazy. person and it's like how the [ __ ] did we. get here? >> Exactly right. You know but what's. interesting when you have two ch when. you have children if I hadn't had. children it would have been game over.

but but we went to counseling tried to. work it out. Actually got divorced and. got back together. We actually got. divorced and got back together. And then. I realized he hadn't really changed, but. I was turning into such a shrew. I would. be out in the garage feeling the hood of. the car to see if it was warm. I was. going through his phone. And I thought, I don't want to live like this only to. find out he was cheating again. He was. cheating again. But now. >> I had to go back with him because he he. was crying. He was apologizing. And I. said, "But now he'll be with somebody.

else and then he'll be all better and. then she'll get and Oprah goes, "No, he. ain't changed." And I go, "Yes, you." I. said, "Opra, you don't understand cuz. you don't have children." He was on his. knees and he was crying. She goes, "Yeah, okay." [laughter]. >> She got so sick of hearing. She goes, "Please go back with him. Please, I will. drive the moving van. Please." That's. when you realize you're telling people. too much. >> Yeah. Oprah's like, "Honestly, sure. Go have your happy life with. [laughter] this man. Call me when he. does something again that's so stupid. and he cheats on you.".

>> I know. She wanted to say, "Shut the. fuck." To her credit, she never did. If. you ask her now, she goes, "I feel like. I went through that [ __ ] divorce. It. It was exhausting.". But now years I just saw him. I just saw. him yesterday cuz my grandchild's. christening. I just saw him. He ain't. looking so good. [laughter]. >> He has a new girlfriend. But I I am in. such a good place at at the weddings and. christenings. I'm I'm like, "Can I get. you anything?" Him and the girlfriend. She seems very nice and lovely. Can I. get you guys anything? I'm so glad you. came. It's good to see you. But that.

only comes with time before somebody. would say, "How are you?" I go, "You. know what happened to me?" Then you see. their eyes glaze over and you go, "I. just wanted to say hello, lady. >> Oh, I'm not okay." You're like, [laughter] and another thing. And. they're like, "Holy shit.". >> Then you realize nobody wants to hear. it. And and the kids love their dad. The. dad loves the kids. So you got to feel a. figure out a way to navigate it. Well, and I think what's so real, what you're. saying, Gail, too, is. >> what you're describing is what you. literally see in the movies.

>> You had one of those literally a movie. Like, you had one of those situations. happen to you that was so disorienting, so unreal, so grand, >> so unwell, >> unwell to the nth degree, so like all of. it. so disregulating all of it that then. >> you can still have the feelings toward. what that happened to you as a human. being. Anyone would be [ __ ] up from. that for [clears throat] a second, right? Or a long time. And you can also.

look at the person and move forward and. find your closure. But it doesn't take. away from the fact that you still had to. walk in with two children sitting. outside and see the person that you were. in love with and you had committed your. life to and you had gotten married to. >> ruining everything. >> Let me tell you another layer since. we're this is just here chatting. >> When I said to her, I can't believe. you're doing this. He said she said to. me, he doesn't even love you. He's only. with you for the children and his.

lifestyle because I was a big- time. anchor. I was doing very well. He was he. was I was paying for him to go to Yale. Law School. Very smart guy. Very very. smart guy. He doesn't even love you. And. then what do I do? I go, "Is that true?". [laughter]. >> I know. Couldn't you cry for her? I. could cry for her. >> I could cry for her, but I also relate. to her cuz I've been here before, too. We've all been there where it's like. >> where someone cheated. >> I've I've been cheated on. Yes. And. >> how did you catch them? >> I caught him through.

his technology. >> and [laughter]. I. >> I like that I caught him through. technology. >> Technology and. >> I went old school. >> Yes. And [laughter] unfortunately I also. saw him naked um in the technology. Um. but that moment I think we can all. relate to something just happens within. you as a woman where you're just like. >> oh my god like did I do something wrong? Could I have been better? And there's. like a weird thing where you're willing. to fight for it [snorts]. >> because you need a second to regulate.

and you don't even know why you're. fighting for it. And now we can look. back with perspective as grown women to. be like. >> I say thank you black baby Jesus for. saving me cuz I'm very glad. I mean I I. just said imagine you know and I I never. badmouth them to the children. They were. young when they became teenagers and I. told them the truth but I would never. badmouth them. Never. Um, and I just. said, I'm just so I wouldn't have this. life. Honestly, I would not be at CBS. I. would have still probably because I love.

my job. I love being a local anchor in. Connecticut. I was had a great career. Was very happy there. I wouldn't be. doing what I'm doing today. I would I. was at SiriusXM where you are today. I. had a show there that I loved. I. wouldn't be at Oprah Daily. I wouldn't. be at CBS. So many things. >> happened because you got But did you. ever find out how long they had been. together? [laughter]. >> Well, he said it it that it wasn't long. I I never But I don't believe anything. he says, you know, because at one point. this God, the more I think about this,

she [laughter]. cuz you know what I said? I said, "Couldn't y'all go to a hotel?" He said, "That got expensive.". I said, "When you say how long?" I don't. know. I don't know, Gail. >> See, keep in mind, I was gone all. weekend. I know. I know. I can't believe. the [ __ ] he said to me. I can't. >> I mean, from the betrayal of a woman. looking at you saying, "He never loved. you. He doesn't love you." That is like, >> "No, she said he doesn't love you. He.

might have I think he loved me in the. beginning." She goes, "But he doesn't. even love you. He's here for the. lifestyle. We had a nice lifestyle and. the children." And you want to you. almost want to say that person as if you. being here naked right now didn't just. kill me. >> I know. >> you want to kill me even more by saying. that. >> saying I'm sorry. Yes, I know. >> I know. But the gas but there again. there again I got to thank Oprah for. this. She said you know what the fact. that she could talk to you that way in.

front of him. Imagine what he has said. to her about you. >> God isn't that good. God, she's good. [laughter] That's why she's the best. >> Cuz I hadn't thought of that. She goes, just the fact that she felt she felt. comfortable enough in your house buck. naked with your towel that she could put. you down in front of him and he didn't. defend you. Imagine what he has told her. about you. Ain't that good? And I go, I. haven't thought about that. >> We're all like, damn, [laughter] Oprah, we didn't think about that one either.

[ __ ] you're good. Oh, wow. >> She's good. >> Right. The disrespect. >> is on another. You're right. She should. have been screaming, "I'm so sorry.". >> That's what she said. You don't even. realize how bad this is. You don't. And. so she said, "Listen, I will I will send. cuz like I said, she's always had more. money than me." She goes, "I will send I. will send you tickets. You, Kirby, and. Will, come to Chicago. You just come. Just get on a plane and leave. Just. come." And I said, "But I have the. Greater Hartford open and I'm live at.

5:00 tomorrow. I can't leave. She goes, "The what? What the [ __ ] is. that?" I go, "It's a big golf tournament. here. That's very important." [laughter]. What the [ __ ] about that, Gail? She go, >> she goes, "I will send you guys tickets. I will send you three tickets. Gail, your head has been blown off. You need. to get on a plane and you need to come. here." And I go, "I can't. I can't. I. have the great I mean, I look at it now. and it's just so stupid, you know, though also and and to her credit and I. I love that you said she never said, "What the [ __ ] are you doing?".

>> Yeah. No. talking now to everyone who. has been that friend who you watch your. friend get cheated on and stay with the. person. There is a level of. >> really really just large frustration. that can come with being that friend. that you're like I'm trying to hold it. down for you and I'm really trying to be. and like you said Oprah literally was. like honestly get the [ __ ] back with. them at this point because I don't know. what else to do like you have to just. stay so steady for them because you're. not seeing it clearly in that moment. You just need someone to weather that. storm with you to just be there with.

you. And eventually you will be able to. >> the cobwebs come and you'll be able to. sit on the couch and be like, "Let's. just reminisce now that I'm not." But. you eventually left. >> Yes. Yes. >> So you found out he was cheating again. >> How did you find out he was cheating. again? >> I mean, I I just started. I I could just tell I could just. >> It was happening. >> Yeah, it was happening. It was. happening. I didn't catch him. I did not. catch him. And of course, he denied it. And I I believe he was cheating because.

when we finally broke up, he was the. next weekend he was with this woman and. clearly had been there for a while. >> When you look back at leaving, because. you said there was the stability of your. life, which I think is speaking to. everyone who's been cheated on and and. stayed, right, and tried to stay. There. is the stability of your life that you. almost selfishly, understandably. >> are so disregulated in that moment. You're like, you just want to go back to. what you had. >> So, you try to repair it. You go to. therapy. You try to stay.

>> You then are also in the garage checking. if the car is hot, looking in his. pockets, checking if there's little love. notes. Like, >> and I didn't want to be that girl. Yeah. >> How did you eventually know you had to. leave? >> Well, because I didn't like who I was. Who wants to live like that? I I I I. didn't want to be that person. And then. and then and keep in mind, Alex, we. still stayed in the big beautiful house. We didn't have to move. I was still. working. So, it's not like I had to stay. because he's, you know, supporting us.

It it wasn't that. And I just started. thinking about it and I think, you know, I think he he probably wanted out of the. marriage, too, for whatever reason. And. I remember one therapist said, you know, Gail, this marriage can work if you. become a doormat. You know, he said to. me, my ex said, "I'll be so glad when. this Gail King [ __ ] is over." Now, listen, I was just a big fish in a. little pond. I wasn't even, you know, this. I wasn't I didn't have this kind. of uh prominence. I was a local news.

anchor, but I was a big deal in in my. state where you're well known. I watch. you all the time. And he just he just. didn't like it. Keep in mind, he's a. Yale educated lawyer. He's to this day. one of the smartest people I know. I. used to love talking to him cuz I love. great conversation. Very very smart. So. the therapist said, "If you want to. become a doormat and do everything that. he wants you to do, then this marriage. can last." And I and I but but it took. me a while to understand that he really.

really resented me. He really did. And. and I think, you know, at the end of the. day, he probably didn't like me of of. all that I represented. And it's not. like I walked around like, you know, I'm. Gail King. >> No, you just had a six. You. >> I used to run his bath water, Alex. A. little bit of hot, little bit of cold. I. pick out his clothes cuz he was color. blind. I mean, I tried to do everything. that I thought. I would fill up his car. with gas so he wouldn't even have to get. gas. >> All the little things. And like you. said, pay. >> I wanted to do them. And I want Listen, it wasn't that he asked me. I wanted to.

do it. I thought that was a loving, kind. thing to do. I think that threatened by. a woman's success is is one of the. biggest um easiest obvious ways to just. completely crumble a relationship, but. it's so hard to see as a woman. >> But men say they want women who are. successful. >> And then they get them and they're like, >> but but but be a little less. And you're. [laughter] like, wait a you say you want. that, but then you get it and they're. like, what? And so to think about you. and having someone so threatened by your.

success, you're so right that like now. being out of that obviously for a while. and being on your own, having gone on. like you know dated people whatever like. how have you maintained now a promise to. yourself essentially that you will never. allow yourself to be with someone who. >> will never happen to me again. Well, you. know, you want somebody who lifts you. up. You want somebody who's proud of. you. You want somebody who thinks, "God, I think it's great being with you. I'm. looking for him. Is he here in the.

room?". >> Yeah. Where is he? Oh, it's only women. in the room. >> Only women. [ __ ]. >> I prefer a men's body. >> Um, something I I am interested to know. is like throughout your career and and. you know, the more successful you. obviously got, you had to navigate. moments where you did have to speak up. And you know, we're talking about this. [clears throat] younger woman who was. saying, "Oh, is that true? Do you love. me or not?" But that also can play into. work, right? Um, you unfortunately have. also had to deal with racism in your. career and in your life. I remember when.

you interviewed Michelle Obama and you. shared that while you were covering the. Super Bowl, an executive made super. inappropriate comments about your hair. >> How have you navigated those type of. moments? Because we're talking about. personal and now we can shift to still. personal and work. >> Oh. Oh. Oh, no. He said, "Interesting, cuz I wore it curly." And he said, "Oh, that's interesting." Yes. Yes. Yes. He. did say that. Oh, you know, or or after.

I had a baby and I'm sitting uh you. know, you put on a couple of pounds, hopefully you'll be fine, but you put on. a couple of pounds and I came back to. work and you know how when you go into. the boss's office and I wasn't looking. at his I wasn't looking at his papers, but when you see your name, it catches. your eye. Even upside down, I saw Gail. and it said Gail's butt. That's what it. said, Gail's butt. And he's asking me, "We're so glad you're back. You know, how is Kirby? You know, uh, how are you.

feeling?" And I was saying, "Oh, it's. great. I'm so glad to be back." And then. he said, "Yeah, but you know, could I. ask one thing? Um, when you're sitting. on the set, could you please sit closer. in because your butt hangs over the. chair and it would really it can be. distracting. So when you're sitting, if. you could scoot all the way up to the. desk, I mean, now that's offensive. there, but there again, I'm like, "Oh, okay. That's what I mean. I mean, I look.

at that now. The same thing about, "Are. you going to wear your hair like that?". Well, that's interesting. I mean, it's. it's, you know, things you don't even. think about, but that's No one can say. that to you these days. >> I was going to say like, how has the way. that you respon respond to sexism and. racism evolved throughout your career? Cuz now. >> well well now now you can say and I have. had times with executives where I say. you know what you cannot speak to me. that way. I will go in the office close. the door. I know you're pissed. I know. you're upset but you cannot speak to me.

that way. So if you're upset there's a. better way that we can handle this. because we're all adults. I now have no. problem speaking up. >> if if somebody is being inappropriate or. out of line with me. None. But when. you're first starting, I I didn't feel. the ease about doing that. But I think. women today are different. I agree. And. I also think it's it is very. intimidating. Like we I agree. I hope. it's different. But I also and I. remember when I interviewed Michelle.

Obama, she said she was like, "Here's. the reality. You have to be honest about. your reality. Where are you in your. career?" like she was like, "It's very. easy for me as former first lady and. someone with power to tell someone you. can't do that anymore." But or are you, you know, trying to make ends meet? You're, you need to afford your. apartment. This is your first job. I'm. not saying put up with a degree that is. to the point where it is abusive and. inappropriate.

You have to read the room a little bit. of are you going to. >> how far are you going to take it? And. that makes my heart break for women. because obviously it's systemic and it. needs to evolve holistically. This isn't. just a one-off woman comes forward and. then everything is going to change, right? >> But it is fascinating. >> Read the room. She's absolutely right. about that. And I also think sometimes. when people are talking about you should. never take abuse on the job ever, ever. But there are times when you're first. starting out, you have to work really.

hard and you don't always get what you. want and you don't always care for the. particular boss that you have and there. you just have to know how to navigate. that. And you can do that without uh. turning yourself into a pretzel and and. without doing something that is. offensive to you. But sometimes when. you're first starting out, you have to. work really. You got to work holidays, you got to work weekends, you got to. work nights. And it isn't a matter of so. people say well you know my mental. health and I have to take care of. myself. All of that is true. All that is.

true. But when you're starting out there. are just certain sacrifices I believe. that you have to make to be successful. >> Call Her Daddy is brought to you by. Ashley. Ashley [music] Lux is an allnew. collection that's changing the meaning. of luxury and inspires your everyday. spaces with premium furnishings at a. surprisingly practical price. Daddy. gang, these pieces are so wellmade with. quality materials like wood, stone, velvets, leather, and brushed metal. It. feels very next level, but what I love.

most is how easy they make it to. actually make the space feel like you. The Ashley Luxe collection has so many. fun accents and decor that you can just. mix and match to your style because your. home should reflect who you are and how. you live, right? For me, I love being. able to host at my house and there is. nothing worse than hosting a big dinner. where someone is stuck at the end of the. table and can't see or hear half the. group. That is why I have been loving. Ashley Neoline. Hi. They have the most.

beautiful curved wood tables that. everyone can fit comfortably around. They're timeless, sturdy. They come in. this like gorgeous espresso finish that. makes everything just feel a little bit. more elevated. If you're feeling ready. to upgrade your space, it's time to head. to Ashley. Discover the new Ashley Luxe. collection by visiting Ashley in store. or online at ashley.com/luxe. >> I also was thinking about in all these.

experiences that you have had, you've. been in really high stakes moments in. your career. >> One that really stands out to me is the. interview with R. Kelly. >> where you addressed the sexual assault. allegations against him. >> What was your mindset going into that. interview? >> I didn't know R. Kelly. I'd seen him at. different places, but I didn't know him. >> But we I had also seen that documentary. I think most women are telling the. truth. Most women most women there are.

some an anomalies, but most women don't. make this up because you don't want to. put yourself out there that way. Most of. them don't. I'm not saying they haven't. There are I I'm not saying it never. happens, but most of them don't. I saw. the documentary. I believe the. documentary. I reached out to him. He. knew we were going to talk about it. He. knew it. But I didn't have a. relationship or rapport with him as I do. with some people that I interview. And. he just when he started screaming, he. just went from zero to 200 in a nancond.

And people said, "Were you scared?". because he started hitting his hand and. you know he was he was uh screaming and. they said, "Were you scared?" You know, I didn't think he was going to hit me. I. thought he could accidentally hit me and. that wouldn't be good. But I thought it. would be an accident if he did, but I. didn't even want to get hit. accidentally. But I'd seen interviews. with him, Alex, where if he got mad, he. would storm away. So I knew if I touched. him, said, "Wait, wait, wait." He would. get up and go. So I just sat there very.

quietly. I looked at him, looked at the. chair, looked at him, looked at the. chair. At one point, he screaming in a. little bit of spirit got right here on. my lip and I said, "Don't make a move to. myself. Don't make a move." Because I. thought if I moved, he would he would. go. And so he could see that I wasn't. going anywhere. And he sat back down. And then we could cuz I'm thinking, "God, I still got some more questions. I. hope he doesn't go.". >> You're like, "Please sit back down. >> Please, please, Robert, please don't. leave." So he sat back down. We. continued the conversation, but it went.

off the rails as you know. I called his. team the next day to see how he's doing. cuz when you're in it, you don't realize. how bad it is. I knew that it was I knew. that he was angry, but it was only when. I looked at that video that I went, "Holy shit." I didn't realize that it. looked that way. So, I called the next. day to see, "Listen, I just wanted to. check in." And they said, "He's fine. As. a matter of fact, he wants to thank you. You thank me for what? Because you.

allowed people to see his passion and. his pain. I go, "Is that what he saw?". Yes. He wants to thank you. Mean I. haven't talked to him since. I would. love to talk to him again. I don't know. if he would, but I haven't talked to him. since then, but I do think that. >> What would you like to talk to him. about? >> Because, you know, after that moment. he's been in prison, he still is saying. he didn't do anything wrong. I don't. want to talk to him if he's still going. to say to me he didn't do anything. wrong. You know, it's like I I only want.

to talk to OJ Simpson if I if he was. going to tell the truth. I happen to. believe that he was responsible for. those deaths. And so I I wrote him a. letter and I said, you know, I would. really like to sit down and talk to you. Um but I want to have a real honest. conversation. So anyway, I I just. believe that I I was able to remain calm. because I wasn't afraid. I really didn't. think he was trying to hurt me and I. wasn't done with the interview.

>> But you couldn't I could not have done. that if I was just starting out. I would. have been totally frazz rattled and. frazzled. >> I mean to say but I wasn't you're you. know I I remember that moment because. >> the fact that he started yelling Yes. started hitting his hands and then to. physically stand up. >> and you just as a woman sitting there it. was so jarring and it was so everyone I. think was so taken back and your. composure in that moment and to hear the.

way that you're talking about it like. that takes some serious skill and also. what's going through your brain. >> and my brain was god please could you. please sit back down that was what was. there was a thought bubble it would have. been oh damn could you please sit back. down. >> I mean that though Gail [laughter] that. though goes back to even the beginning. of this interview where you were like. I'm always prepared. >> Yes. >> And you had a vision for what you wanted. to make sure you got out of that. interview and it's like you're a. professional. Um but I was that the most.

heightened you would say any interview. you've ever done has gotten. Were there. even like security in the room? >> There was security in the room. Okay. There was there was security in the. room. Yes. >> It's kind of. >> they showed up but you didn't see them. on camera but they were there. Slow. down, [laughter] boys. Let's see if he. takes a seat. Hold on. Hold on. >> Don't come in yet. >> Just not yet. Um, [laughter]. >> throughout your career, obviously, you've done so much, but you have made. it clear you have no intention of. slowing down. And when you received the. journalist icon award this year, you.

said, quote, "I'm not even thinking of. retiring.". >> Not even kind of. >> What are your views on aging? Listen, I think to be able to do what I. do at this stage in my life, I think. it's such a blessing and such a kick. I. I say I I live my life full gallop. I. really do. I'm so happy and I really. mean this sincerely to be on the planet. despite all the turmoil and tumult. you've heard at CBS. I know there's a. lot of great people there working really.

hard and so I like being part of that. team. We're going through some stuff, but I like being part of that team. And. so to to be able to do this job at this. level, I think is is is amazing to me. Is amazing. >> What is something that you used to. believe about. getting older as a human or as a woman. that you see completely differently now? >> I used to think I remember when my mom. turned 50 thinking, "God, she's old." I.

remember that. My mom had me when she. was 21. So when she turned 50, I. thought, "God." And I remember when I. turned 50, the AARP. sent me a magazine and I called them and. said, "Please take me off your mailing. list because you get the early bird. specials and the coupons. Please take me. off your mailing list." I don't even. know how they know, but the very next. day that damn magazine came. Now I look. at that and I think, God, I should have. embraced that because I want to send the. message that it is good. It is okay. You.

can thrive. You can be juicy like a. peach. You can still have a great great. life. So, I regret that I did that now, but now I'm thinking, what else can I. do? I completely agree with you. I think. what's so beautiful about life, and I've. been having a lot of conversations with. a lot of women on my show recently about. there is such obviously, this is not new. information, but we all know there is a. very specific age that society tells us. women are desirable at and they are at.

their best. And disgustingly, a lot of. it is happens to either be underage or. right of age. And unfortunately, there. is so much that comes with being that. age as a young woman. >> Even the stories we've talked about when. you're younger, it's like you're still. figuring life out. You're trying you you. may not even see the sexist comment or. you may feel it, but you can't do. anything about it. With age comes. perspective and growth and wisdom. And. with that, the tools that you give.

yourself through your life experiences. allows you to, I genuinely believe, live. a better life because you just have more. access to who you genuinely are at such. a young age. You're just figuring. yourself out. And that is so fun into a. certain capacity. But when you really. hone in, and as I've gotten older and. I've entered my 30s, and I know I have. so much more to go, I feel so much. better about this decade than I did the. last one. And I believe when I speak to. women on my show, >> that's all everyone's experience.

They're like, "Girl, just wait. It just. gets better. It just gets better. It. just gets better.". >> I know. >> It's beautiful. >> Alex, do you see yourself at 40? What. are you going to be doing? >> Honestly, I feel like I remember my mom. saying, "Oh, my 40s were my best." She's. like, "If I think back my 40s, she was. like, I was." And I'm like, that makes. me so excited. I think, you know, welcoming, you know, a child to this. world and starting a family for myself, like I I do think about how much more. there is to these next chapters of life. And that's really exciting to me.

>> I can't wait for you. I can't wait. >> And like you say, like new experiences. are so fun as humans and so to embrace. it. Right. >> That's what I said. New experiences, new. adventures. In the spirit of not slowing. down, what is a goal you have for. yourself that you want to accomplish in. the next 5 to 10 years? >> I I would really like to meet somebody. You know, I used to think I want to get. married again. Now I'm not even thinking. that. But I do think life is better when. shared, Alex. I do. Listen, I have a. great life. It's not a there's no don't.

cry for me, Argentina. I have a great. I'm not sitting at home like, "Oh my. god, I'm so That's not it." But I do. think it would be nice to meet somebody. that you think thinks you're fun to hang. out with. I would like younger. Not. someone I could give birth to, but. younger. You know, like Tom Brady's age. >> I just saw Tom Brady. >> I just saw Tom Brady and I just stopped. myself from going, "You are so. good-looking." [laughter]. >> Kill. >> He's also terrific. >> Specifically Tom Brady. Could that's a. good idea. You're like, but I get what.

you're saying. >> Tom will appreciate the sense of humor. But but but somebody not somebody I. could have given birth to, but I don't. mind younger cuz I'm thinking guys my. age, they wear hats. They tend to be a little boring. You. can't generalize. You can't generalize, but that has been my experience so far. >> Okay, I'm going to ask you a couple. dating questions. Are you ready? I'm. ready. Rapid fire. Ideal date night. >> I love a good restaurant. I love People say don't go to movies,

but I love a movie. I love a movie. I. like a restaurant movie. Then we could. talk about the movie. >> Cute. >> I love that. >> Okay. What would people be surprised to. know you're into? Just for like a guy. What do you look for? >> I like big Alex. in every way. You can take with that big. hands, big chest, big muscles, big feet. Do with that what you will. >> Oh, Gail, you showed up in. >> But I don't mind if he has a tummy cuz I. have a tummy. I don't mind. But I like I.

I like it. You look big. >> I want somebody who can pick me up and. carry me across the room and his back. ISN'T GOING, "OH, MY BACK." I want that. >> I want that for you. >> Can Matt carry you? >> He can carry me. >> Okay, there you go. You need someone to. carry you. Okay, fair, fair, fair. What. is a first date deal breakaker? >> Smoking. I hate smoking. I just The smell of it. It's not I just don't like smoking. >> I I feel the same. I My mom always was. like, "Oh, it's like kissing an.

ashtray.". >> I know. Me and mom. Yes. >> I agree. Um, what do you want a guy to. notice about you? >> God. What do I want him to notice first? >> Well, what Okay, how about this? Go with. this is easier to start with. What is. the first thing you notice about a guy? >> Chest. >> Okay. [laughter]. >> I don't even want him to notice your. chest first. >> I don't care about that. No, >> no. I I think I I would like him to. think she's fun.

>> Yeah. I would like him to think she's. that she's fun. >> You are, >> you know, and great to be around. I. would like that. I also like a guy with. a sense of humor. Somebody that can make. you laugh. Panties come off. >> You got to laugh over there. What do. your friends. >> You know, that's true, ma'am. >> What do your friends brag about when it. comes to you? >> Well, they'll say fun, but they'll also. say kind. I really do care about I. really do. >> Right. So, like this [ __ ] better. not [laughter] try to mess around with.

your girl. >> I really do. >> If you're coming in, come with the right. intentions. No shrines. No coke. >> No shrines. Could you please not be a. cocaine addict? That would also ask bare. minimum. >> That's a deal breaker. [laughter]. >> No, that's bare minimum, Gail. That's. not a deal breaker. That's bare minimum. Um. >> I own a little weed. Although I've never. smoked weed. I never have. But I hear I. hear some people do and it's enjoyable. That would not be a deal breaker. >> On a little gummy. You on a little. gummy. >> I've never done it. No. >> Oh my god. You on a little gummy.

>> Square. >> No. Oh my god. You and Oprah like. filming yourselves on little gummies. like sitting there just like what's is. it when is it going to hit us? [laughter] That would that's a special I. want. >> Well, she's tried other things. >> She said Okay. Okay. Fair. Fair. We got. to get you a little gummy. If your. friends could set you up with someone. not Tom Brady, who do you think they. would set you up with? >> Tom Brady. >> Okay. [laughter]. >> Okay. >> No. No. No. No. Fair. No. Let's think. Let's think. You know what's so. interesting to me, Alex? I wish I could. say I've met somebody that I go, I'm. going to go after him.

Cuz I don't date married guys. >> Yeah. No. >> Or somebody that's involved with. somebody. But I would just like to meet. somebody that makes you laugh, that is. fun. Like, you know who I think is I. think I do think Tom Brady is a great. guy. He's on my mind because I just saw. him at a conference. But I think he's. very charming. I think he's very. good-looking. I think he's very smart, but like I think Hugh Jackman is fun. I. think Hugh Jackman is one of the nicest. people that I've ever met. He's just is. a nice human being.

>> But you're just looking for a nice guy, Gail. >> Yes. Yes. We have Jim Nance at CBS does. CBS Sports. Just a really nice, fun guy. >> That's what you're you're looking for. Nice, fun guy. >> I am. >> Okay, last game. You are friends with so. many interesting people and you've. crossed paths with some of the biggest. names over the years. Yeah. >> I want to know who you would call in. every situation. And Gail, you cannot. answer Oprah every time. >> Okay. >> Who are you calling to guest host for. you on CBS Morning's last minute? >> Oh, last minute.

Oh, this is good. >> Who you know would be fun? >> Alex Cooper. [laughter]. >> I'll be there. >> That's good. >> Honestly, fair. Who would you trust to. take care of your grandkids overnight? Who's you want? Somebody who's very. nurturing and kind, who's just really sweet. Hod is nice. Yeah, she'd be good. >> Oh, yeah. That'd be nice. >> Yeah, she'd be good. >> Who is your one call in jail? >> I can't say Oprah. >> Yeah, you can say Oprah for that one.

[laughter]. >> Cuz that would be my one call. >> No, no, no. That's That's your call. We're all calling Oprah. >> Bring bail money. [laughter]. >> Yeah. Bring the bail, babe. Bring the. bail. >> Cuz if I'm in jail, it's something. really big. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Bring your pocky book. Yes. [laughter]. >> Who are you calling to join you for a. Euro trip this summer? >> Chris Jenner. >> Wait. Yeah, that picture of you guys. >> She's fun. >> You have an iconic picture of you, Oprah, and Chris in Spain from last. summer. And you're in coordinated.

outfits. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Chris brought gifts. because it was from the Skiims line. Number one, she's a doll. I'm nuts about. her. And it just it wasn't her boat. It. wasn't Opra's boat. But it is nice. I. have to say, Alex, they have friends. with boats. >> I mean, Gail, that's a really. >> I have to say that's a very nice thing. >> What are you looking forward to this. upcoming summer? Do you have any good. plans? >> I want to go see Selene Dion in Paris. >> Oh, >> I am working on it. >> Who are you going to go with?

>> Me and Oprah. [laughter]. >> That's a good experience. >> That's so funny. >> Oh my god. Okay, that's fun. >> I know. Let's see. Let's see. Let me. make up somebody. Me and Tom Brady. [laughter]. You're like, "Shit." Oh, >> Tom Brady's going to go, "Gail." He's. going to say, "Shut the [ __ ] up.". >> No, [laughter] honestly, it's so good. Um, that trips on. >> No, it's only because I just saw him at. a conference. That's all. >> Okay. He's at top of mind. He's top of. mind. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Last question. >> Okay. >> When you look back at everything that.

you have accomplished. personally and professionally, what do. you think you are the most proud of? >> I know it's so cliche, but you're going. to say this, too, when your favorite. child comes. I'm so proud that my kids. have turned out that, knock on wood, they are happy and healthy and they are. not bratty kids. You know, they were. raised with a lot of privilege. There's. no question about that. And so they. could really be obnoxious, obnoxious human beings. And the best.

compliment I can ever get is that I met. your son, I met your daughter, and they. are just really lovely people. And and I. did this, this will be fun for you. When. Kirby was three, favorite daughter Kirby. was three and Santa was coming and I. said, "You got to give Santa your list.". And she had 23 items on it. And Santa. got all 23. Now, she's 3 years old. She. opens the last one. She goes, "Is that. it?" Now, she wasn't asking like, "I. want more." She was just saying, "Am I. done?" And I realized in that moment, in.

that moment, Santa should never give. everything that they ask for ever. that. in that moment because I thought, "Oh, the message that Santa is sending is not. good." And I decided that that would. never happen again. I made sure they got. jobs when they were 14, 15 when you. could work because we have different. last names. When they went away to. school, they said, "Mom, could you not. come the first weekend? I want to. establish my own friend group. Oprah's. their godmother." People didn't even. know that because they don't walk around. talking about it, you know? They they're.

just re their heads are really screwed. on straight. That is so beautiful, Gail. >> So, I'm I'm very proud of that. >> and and you should be because all I've. heard is parenting is a beautiful. experience and it is so hard. >> It is hard, but it doesn't you know when. you when you were there every step of. the way and there's a way to do it. without being a there was an article. about helicopter parents and I said to I. called Kirby said, "Do you think I'm a. helicopter parent?" He goes, she said, "What did Will say?" I said, "Well, I'm.

calling you first." And she goes, "I. hear choppers." Listen, I wanted my kids. I wanted me to be the first thing they. saw in the morning and the last thing. they saw at night when it was possible. to do so. And so I was extremely. involved when they got in little league. I don't want to go to all those frigin. games. Maybe you'll feel differently, but they have too many frigin little. league games. You're bored out of your. mind. And I would say to the other. parents, "Are you guys enjoying this? They just went into extra innings." They.

go, "Oh, Gail, don't say that." got to. go. Seriously, are you enjoying this? When you have the Christmas play or the. holiday play, they don't have to sing. six friaking songs. They can sing two. They don't need to sing six all off key. You'll see. But I still loved all of. those things. And don't let anybody make. you feel guilty. I refuse to do that. I. refuse. >> That's good advice for me. I'm going to. take that. No guilt. >> No, because you're working and you're. you like working and you're you're there. for the important things. I remember.

when, you know, it was my time to bring. cupcakes and this woman said, "Oh, you. oh, you bought those?" "Yes, I did.". >> I would say, "Bitch, yes, I did.". >> Cuz she she had her little carrier that. she had made and the little sprinkles. and you know the little Tupperware. thing. And I go, "Yes, these are. Intimmens. I just got them at Stop and. Shop on the way here. >> and they're delicious.". >> And they are delicious. Or another time. when Kirby walked for the first time, um, somebody said to me, "Oh, you must. feel terrible. You didn't see her first.

steps." I go, "She walked at noon, [ __ ] It's now 5:30. She's not running. She's not in a marathon." And he had. videotaped it. So I She was trying to. make me feel bad. And I just I refused. to allow people to do that. >> Right. You know how good of your mother. you are. >> Yes. I thought I was I Listen, was I. perfect? No. But I I didn't get the. nutrition right. Please do better than. that on cuz they were raised on. spaghettiio and tater tots. I don't. recommend that. >> You know what my mom did the same and I.

think I turned out fine. So. >> did she do that? >> Yeah. She was like, "Listen, I don't. know how to cook, so just here you go.". >> I know. Michelle Obama freed me of that. one. She's Cuz I said, "Michelle, God, I. feel so bad cuz she has healthy eating.". She goes, "Gail, that's what everybody. did then. Don't beat yourself up." I go, "Tater tots, fish sticks.". >> Oh, they were so good. Come on. They. were so good. Bagel bites. Oh, >> but that's not healthy. So, I know. you'll do better. >> I'm going to do better, Gail. I'm going. to do better. Promise. >> I promise you. Um although they didn't. see it on camera, I can't thank you.

enough. You brought me such a lovely. gift for the baby. And you are just the. sweetest. >> I'm really excited for you. I really, really am. >> She made me onesies that say Daddy Gang. Jr. on it. >> My favorite is my mom is un My mommy is. unwell. >> My mommy is unwell. I'm like, [laughter]. I call your mom a joke cuz this is. called unwell. >> Yes. No, it's perfect. And you're so. sweet and I am so happy you sat down. with me today. I knew there would be so. many laughs and so many story times, but.

just everything you've built and also. just who you are as a person. I think. people talk about it all the time and. I've been fortunate enough to meet you, but everyone always says like she just. radiates positivity and it's contagious. >> I feel that. >> and it's and it is true. like you are. that type of person that you people. gravitate towards you. You want to be. near and so the fact that you just let. us soak up any type of wisdom, life. experience, hard times, positive times. I can't thank you enough. Seriously, >> thank you. Thank you for having me. >> This was fun.

>> And just remember, Gail is a unisex. name. When the baby comes, boy, girl, it. works. Just throwing it out. >> Please tell Matt. >> I will tell Matt and we will not take it. off the table. Okay. >> Yes. Put it on the table. >> Can you imagine? Honestly, I can. Um, [laughter] Gail King, thank you so much. for coming. Call Alex Cooper. Thank you, Mom. [music].

[music].