Emmy Rossum: Shameless, Motherhood & Knowing Your Worth

What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your. founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call. Her Daddy. Emmy Rossum, welcome to Call Her Daddy. >> Thank you. >> Okay. We have so much to talk about today. You. have accomplished so much in your. career. You got into the industry as a. kid. You spent nearly a decade of your. life playing the fierce Fiona Gallagher. that we all know and love on Shameless.

And you have fought for pay equity in. Hollywood. So, I am like, "Girl, we have. a lot to talk about today.". >> Okay. >> I'm so happy to meet you. >> Me, too. >> The shirt. Let's start with the shirt. because I know you're a true New Yorker. >> champions. >> Are you still clearly riding the high? >> It's never going to end. >> Okay. >> I've been waiting for this since I'm. like 6 or 7 years old. I. became obsessed with basketball. I don't know why. I loved watching the.

sport. I deeply identified with John. Starks growing up during that playoff. run. I remember I wrote in my diary, "He's so fiery on the court and I just. identify with him. I see myself in him.". And I love basketball because it moves. really fast and you can see all the. players' faces really, really well. And. I need to understand the emotional. narrative. of what's going on with the players in.

the game. Like, football, I'm too far. away. I can't see their faces. Hockey, I. can't see their faces. Tennis, I like. for the same reason. It moves fast. I. can see them. I'm with them. I'm with. the narrative. Like, what is going on? They're trash talking each other. I can. see it. >> You want to see the sweat. >> need to see the emotion. I want to see. the drive. Oh my. >> [laughter]. >> god. I get so invested. I need it. I. love it. >> Okay. Where were you when the next one? >> I was in Rhode Island with um a bunch of.

actors and crew. I just finished a movie. there and so we kind of commandeered. this bar. The bar was actually I was. like, "Hey, I'm looking for a place to. watch the game." and they were like, "Oh. yeah, that's great. We're actually. having a thing on the roof to watch the. game." I was like, "Amazing." So then I. got up there. and there was all these like World Cup. flags and I was like, "What are we going to turn on the. Knicks?" And they were like, "What game. are you talking about?" And I was like, "The only game to care about right now.". >> New Yorker starts coming out of you.

You're like getting so. >> panicked and it turned out that it was. actually nobody there to watch the World. Cup so they turned it into a Knicks. playoff game. And then a wedding ended. up coming up and they turned out to be. Knicks fans. I cried. >> So what? You had a whole night? >> I had a whole night because the first. teaser for my show got like a 15-second. spot and I only heard about it a couple. hours before the game and I was losing. it. >> You're like, "If there's ever been a. moment that I am getting promo, it's.

right here right now that I actually. care about the most.". >> I was like, "If we win tonight. and my show has a promo on it, like I. can just I can just die happy.". >> I did want to ask you when I was. stalking you. There is an Instagram post. that you shared 5 years ago when the. Knicks were also in the playoffs. >> Oh, yes. >> And you were in labor at the time. But. it feels like there was a bit of like a. chaotic. story where like are you putting. basketball before.

giving birth? Like can you tell the. story? What happened? >> Well, I was pregnant with my daughter. and I knew that I was due and I was very. much in denial that I was in labor the. first time. I remember I like. gave my husband a haircut. I was. cleaning the house. I ordered some Thai. food and I had some contractions, but. like it was like kind of like meh, it's. probably fine. I was definitely scared of childbirth. My mother's mother had died in. childbirth, so that narrative was very.

in the back of my head or my psyche. somewhere, but. what was in the front of my psyche was I. was not going to go into labor until. after the Knicks game. And so I was laboring over a large kind. of exercise ball. in full labor. >> As you're watching the game. >> As I'm watching the Knicks game. And in. this photo my mom is next to me on the. couch being like, "I really think you. should just like go get the epidural.". And I was like, "Nope, I'm going to. watch this game.

and I'll go when I'm fully dilated.". >> you what, you call an Uber and you're. like in labor? >> I actually labored the whole night. before I went to the hospital in the. morning. My contractions never got any. closer together than like 8 minutes, so. I didn't think I was very close. And. I was like I I don't think I can do like. do much more of this. >> Right. >> And then finally, yeah, I woke my. husband up and I was like, "We got to. call an Uber.".

>> And he was like, "Should I get the. playlist ready?" And I was like, "I. think I don't I don't want the playlist. anymore.". Like. >> You would have a playlist. >> playlist, yeah. >> Oh, wow. >> get like the playlist ready? And I was. like, "I'm ill. I don't want the. playlist anymore. I love you so much.". >> do I need a labor playlist? >> Maybe. >> What kind of music do you have on it? >> There was like a lot of like hip hop, R&B. >> Oh. Oh. Okay, so not like soothing. >> think we knew [laughter] what we were. like. >> Lamar going. I'm like, I feel like I. would be thinking more of like like soft.

like meditation, but you're like hearing. this. >> We were not. Yes. His contribution to. the labor was his playlist. >> You're vibing out. >> Which went unused because we we took the. Uber to the hospital and. I remember I was like, "Sir, like you. really I feel like you really got to you. got to step on it." And and and we were. like driving up Park Avenue in the city. and he like the light would turn like.

start to turn yellow and he would just. stop and I would like go into another. contraction. >> Sir, do you want five stars? He's like, "Your Uber rating's going down. You're. about to have a baby in my backseat.". >> [snorts]. >> I know and that that was the fear. I was. like I just don't want to have this baby. in the backseat. But then I got to the. hospital. >> and you're fine. >> And they were like my water still hadn't. broken and they were like, "Oh, you're 8. cm dilated. Like don't sneeze. Like this. baby's going to fall out of you.". >> Okay, what was it like the first moment. you met your daughter? >> Wow.

I held her and I have a video of the. first moment and I said, "Oh my god, that's a person.". >> And obviously I've heard people say like. and then you're staring at your child. and you're like, "Oh my god, like. this is on us now. Like we're they're. we're allowed to leave the hospital with. this beautiful thing but like what do we. do?" Did you have any of that feeling? >> Certainly, I was overtaken by the. feeling of vulnerability. Just at this thing that you've been able. to keep safe. inside of you for so long is now outside.

of you and it's so vulnerable and. anything could happen to it. Anything. could hurt it. The. postpartum anxiety for me was very very. rough like very intense intrusive. thoughts. And I had had a kind of crazy journey to. get pregnant where I have PCOS. So I was. I had very very debilitating ovarian.

cysts throughout my 20s. Um. and. tried to get pregnant naturally, it. didn't happen. Tried IUI, didn't happen. and then tried IVF. and it happened in a big way. Um I only did one harvest, but a. kind of side effect of PCOS is that. you can kind of become a super. responder. So, I.

I they woke me up from the harvest and. said that I had 72 eggs. Yeah. Which was trippy and bizarre, and. I thought I'd maybe have 12. >> Of course, you're right. >> Um and they were like, "And we. fertilized them all." And I was like, "What?". Yeah, so. it had been a long journey to. get to meet my daughter, and then when I. finally had, um.

it was also towards the end of COVID. Um. so, I had been able to. keep the pregnancy private the whole. time. Which is something I know you. desperately wanted, too. >> It is. And I also love that like I get. to sit here and talk with you about it, and I know that so many women who have. PCOS or, you know, did IVF are going to. be like hanging on to every word that. you're saying right now, because I think. what is so unique about women's.

experiences is they are so unique, and. no one is the same. Like you saying that. you got 72. eggs, I was like. >> Yeah, and then. the offshoot of that was after you do. IVF, they tell you to like monitor your. weight in the next couple days to see if. you put on any water that, you know, and. I gained. like 14 lb in 2 days, and I was like, "Something's wrong here." So, I called. the doctor, and I'd just eaten like a. big fat cheeseburger, and I was like, "I. don't know, like I feel like a plump. grape. Something's wrong." And so, I.

went back in, and. I'd gone into hyperstim, so So had to. extract the fluid, which modern medicine. is incredible, but this procedure was. bizarre and kind of barbaric. Um I went in and. they were like, "Have you eaten today?". cuz we could do twilight and I was like, "I've eaten a huge cheeseburger." And. they said, "Okay, well we're going to. have to extract this fluid." And then. they took out an enormous Diet Coke. bottle. And just like took the fluid out right.

into the Diet Coke empty Diet Coke. bottle. >> You're like, "Does it have. Is there not like a normal tube that. looks a little bit more like medical? Right? Like anything other than like, 'Oh, wow.'" That's the also the. fascinating part cuz I I want. anything other than like, "Oh, wow.". >> Yeah. >> That's the also the fascinating part cuz. I I want to go through your whole life. and we're going to get more into. motherhood as we go. Um cuz I know you. were also raised by a single mother. But like that's the part of motherhood. that's so fascinating is we we act like.

it's such like, "Oh, and then she like. had a baby." And it's like, no, no, no, like the actual war that women are up. against to even be able to say, "And. then a baby came." And it actually. There's so much like glamorization. around and it acts like it's like just. like a normal casual thing. And it's. like, "This is. so complex. and there's so much that goes into it. that I had no concept of and maybe I'm. becoming even more aware of it obviously.

because I'm going through it. But like. women are so incredible and it is. overwhelming what we have to go through. to get to where the standard and the. norm feels like it should be. >> Yeah. >> Call Her Daddy is brought to you by. SoFi, the all-in-one finance app where. you can bank, borrow, and invest all in. one place. Daddy gang, let's talk bank. accounts for a second. The average bank. savings rate is 0.39%. in interest. You're earning pennies on.

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welcome bonus when you sign up with. eligible direct deposit. That's a lot of. Pilates classes. Sign up for SoFi. checking and savings at. sofi.com/callherdaddy. today. SoFi checking and savings is. offered through SoFi Bank and a member. FDIC. Terms apply. Okay, let's go back. Um so you're raised. by a single mother. >> Yeah. >> She was a photographer? >> My mom was a photographer. She was My mom is very adventurous. She was a single mom.

And she met my dad on an airplane. Um and he was not interested in being a. dad. Um he left her when she was pregnant. And so I didn't meet him. until I was four, and even then I didn't. know he was my dad. Um but my mom was. My mom is is amazing. She's very adventurous. She was a. corporate photographer. When I was.

little, she would travel a lot. And she. would do things like go to Saudi Arabia. to do the annual reports for Mobile Oil, and she would hang out of a helicopter. like attached by a cable and take. pictures of an oil rig. She photographed. like the making of the atom bomb for our. government. She was Steve Jobs' personal. photographer for many years before I was. born. Um and my mom is just like hugely. impressive and capable in so many ways.

Like we went to Japan and she could like. order in Japanese and ask where the. bathroom was. We went to France and she. like broke out the the French with the. cab driver where they were like talking. about the First World War in France in. French and I was like that's like real. French. My mom's going to be 80 in January and. she had me when she was 40 and she. like I asked her last week, "What are. you doing this week, Mom?" And she was. like, "My dishwasher is fixed so I'm. going to is broken so I'm going to fix.

it." And I was like, "What do you mean? Do you know how to fix a dishwasher?". And she said, "No, but I will by. Friday." And I called her and she fixed. it. >> What a gift to have such a capable, inspiring. intellectual. mother. >> Yeah. >> as your kind of like North Star to life. and watching the world through her eyes. is like. it explains a little bit obviously of. why you are the way you are. How would. you have described your relationship.

with her when you were young and growing. up? >> We were close. But I. certainly felt. the absence of my dad. I certainly. didn't want my mom to go to work. You. know, my kids are three and five now and. sometimes it's hard when you go to work. Um sometimes they have big feelings. about this. One time when I was like. four, I think I was like throwing a.

tantrum like don't go to work, don't go. to work and my mom. said, "Okay, do you know what happens if. I don't go to work?". And I said, "What?". And she said, "We would sleep on the street.". And I said, "Okay." And she said, "Do you know what. it's like to sleep on the street?". And I said, shrug, you know, I'm four, I. don't know. >> course. >> And she opened the fourth floor window.

and she took my pillow and my blanky and. my teddy, Huggy, who I still sleep with. to this day. >> Of course. >> He is in my hotel room right now. >> Huggy. >> Huggy, he's a polar bear. >> in this moment. >> He's a polar bear. >> Is he a little scary though when you are. >> very hugged on his belly. >> Have you gotten him like re-stitched a. little? >> He's been so operated on. Frankensteined. But she took all that. and she put it out the window. And like. I remember watching it like float down. And that was how she taught me the.

importance of survival. She She threw it. out the window. >> I'm I'm picturing there's like a little. fire escape situation. >> Oh, it was. >> Four floors down. Four floors down. >> So then did you walk down and have to go. to the street and see. >> and got it. And then she went to work. Yeah. >> Yes, she did. >> So I might do things differently now. But we were very, very close. I needed. her, I wanted her, but she had to go to. work. She. she made me understand survival in a. very intense way.

My mom's not a woman of feelings. She's. a woman of like her love language is. acts of service. >> And she's quite. >> practical. Like this is what it is, so. this is what it is. >> Yeah. There you go, your bedding's in. the courtyard if you'd like to sleep. there. But also as I've become a mother, I have found so much forgiveness for my. mother for all the ways in which. feelings were not. her strong suit, right? My mom's mom.

died when she was 13. She grew up in a. really traumatic household. She was out. of the house by the time she was 15 and. went to Barnard College and really made. a life for herself as a single woman, as. an adventurous single woman. So I know. that I'm going to need forgiveness as a. mom, too. And I think as we step into these new. chapters of our lives, we are afforded. the opportunity to. recontextualize.

the ways in which our parents came up. short for us, but still love them. >> Yeah, I remember I I read somewhere you. had said like in the past you wanted to. be worthy of being your mother's. daughter. >> Oh, >> And I was like Oh, that's that's a good. one. >> I am. >> That's a heavy one. >> I certainly am. >> And that but that's like. >> But for my daughter, she doesn't have to. do anything to be worthy of being my. daughter. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. She's amazing.

Like my mom and I never had a lot of. money, but I never felt that as a kid. She never bought herself new underwear. She took care of me. She put me in a. private school. Like everything went to taking care of. me and putting and funneling into me. So, even though she may have not, you. know, been able to be. all the things a conventional mother is. supposed to be, should be, although I. hate shoulds, she did a lot for me and I. love her very much. >> I was going to say it's um. really impressive because talking about,

you know, two women living in an. apartment together in New York City. >> Till I was 18. One bathroom. >> Like that is. >> One bedroom. >> I can I can picture it. And then to. know, so you went to one of the most. prestigious prep schools in the city. What were you like at school? Like how. would your teachers have described you? >> It's funny because I found my old report. cards. She gave them to me. She had. everything saved from my childhood and. she was like, "I want to give these to.

you." I was really into drama, really. into art, um really into make-believe. Um and I had a solid group of friends, a. very small group of friends from day. one. My best friend Dory, Joanna, Pam. from day one. Dory, who is still so my. best friend. They're actually all my. close friends, but Dory bought the. apartment three floors below me so that. we can raise our kids together. It's. very like Fiona and then Kevin V the.

neighbors next door. >> it. I love it. >> And our kids literally go up and. downstairs the back stairs to hang out. And it's like very a little community in. our little apartment building. We. actually lived across the street from. each other and decided it wasn't close. enough. >> And she sold the apartment and moved. into my building when it became. available. >> This is like making every Shameless fan. so happy right now cuz I'm just. picturing you and like the chaos of. going up and downstairs and all of you. being so close. Oh, wow.

>> And were you an overachiever in school? >> No, but I never really. found my place or my people in school. Um but it was my second grade music. teacher that recommended that I go. audition at the opera, at the children's. chorus. And I did and that's how I ended. up singing at the children's chorus. And. then I loved it. The second I walked. into the opera, it was like I had found. my people, my place.

>> That's what I was reading. So you were 7. years old when you started singing at. the Met. >> Yeah. >> 11 you landed your first TV role. 16. life changes, you starred in the movie. The Phantom of the Opera. >> 17. >> 17. >> Yeah. >> Um. did your mom have any hesitations about. you going into this career? >> Well, my mom was an artist. And so being an artist was a noble.

profession. And not a profession that you went in to. get rich or famous. Certainly didn't go. to the opera to sing there for $10, $20. a night to have that outcome. My mom was very aware. that there were dangers and. drawbacks to this. >> When you had, you know, I like mentioned. the pressure that you put on yourself to. be worthy of your mom, did you bring.

that mindset into your career at all? >> I I I had a lot of natural drive. and. ambition to be the best that I could be. And also there was a lot of rigor that. came with. being at the opera. You were expected to. go on stage, perform, get it right every. single time. There was like not a lot of.

leniency for up. And so that. really made my own. you know, Virgo perfectionism like. really kick into high drive. But I felt. when I walked out onto stage. that that all evaporated. It was so easy. for me to share, to feel that I could. lose myself in that and that there were. people that were sitting there every. night experiencing that live with me. It. was magic.

>> I You have said that you like to be a. little terrified by a role. >> Yes. >> What feelings draw you to that of. wanting to be terrified? >> Well, it's different in life. I think in. life, you know, you have that little. smoke detector in your head. And like. when you're young. you're like, "Oh, I think I hear. something beeping. Like maybe the. battery needs to be changed." Or like, "Oh, it's a little hot in here. Like. maybe I should turn on the AC." Like,

"Is that Is that the smell of singeing? I'm sure my neighbor's making cookies. Like, no, your hair's on fire. Get out of the house. Right? So, in. life, when you hear the smoke detector, you have to run from it. But, in art, when you hear the smoke detector, you move towards it because that says. that there's something there for you, something unexamined in yourself, something that scares you, something. that causes you shame. And those are the. things that we must examine about. ourself, about our characters, about our.

womanhood, about our society. We have to. No different than what you do. You're. unafraid to look in the places that. other people don't want to look. >> Yeah, that makes me. think about Fiona Gallagher. Like, let's. talk about So, your character on. Shameless, she was. ferocious, she was resilient, she was. pretty self-destructive at times. >> Yeah. Risky. >> Take me to the moment that you read the. script for the first time. Like, what.

drew you in in the way that you're kind. of talking about right now about Fiona? >> It was unlike anything I had done. before. It was raw. There was sexuality. Um. There was. longing and yearning for an absent. parent, which is something that hit deep. for me. There was. kind of. like this slightly chaotic environment.

that was based on survival that also. felt very familiar to me. There was deep love and connection and. loyalty in that family, and that hit. deep for me. And there was a sense that even though. they were. in an economic depression, they were not. depressed. They refused to be. And there. was resilience and love. And. I knew it was mine. I knew it was my.

role. I knew it was for me. There's like. sometimes when you read things you're. just drawn to them and you're like. >> Yes. >> Yeah, I volunteer as tribute. Do you. know what I mean? Like put me in, coach. >> they at first not feel that way about. you? >> No, I was told that they thought I was. too princessy. I had come off Mystic. River, Day After Tomorrow, Phantom, Poseidon Adventure. I had walked a lot. of red carpets and press tours for. those. And I had. not displayed that level of rawness in a.

performance, certainly. But I think only. an actor knows what they're capable of, which is why it's so important for all. artists to take their careers into their. own hands and get into the driver's seat. because only you know what you have. inside. >> I mean, and just like now knowing, I. mean, I was such a fan of the show and I. still am. Like the environment that you. were able to create with your character, like it felt so immersive. Like when. you're watching the show, I'm literally.

a part of this family. Like I can't stop. watching. And you you all did such a. good job bringing it to life. Playing. this character for almost a decade, did. you discover anything unexpected about. yourself in the process? >> I had always wanted a big family. That was so emotional for me to like. walk in and firstly, make a pilot, you. never know if it's going to go. But. before we made the pilot, they gave us a.

week in the house, in the space, which. was built on a stage in the Warner. Brothers lot. And in the kitchen, the director, Mark. Mylod, put a bunch of cold cuts and bread. And. at that time, the fridge still smelled. fine. After years and years of the. fridge getting unplugged and replugged. and the fridge smelled so bad by the. end, and they would put Go Pros in the. fridge and we would have to open the. fridge, you know, cuz there's a little. camera inside and we would get something. and you would have to plan when you. would take your breath. It was like a.

joke we all played cuz like an old. fridge just like there's something wrong. with it. It was like something had died. in that fridge. >> it and I'm not even there. >> bad and like you'd be like, "Okay, so as. I'm coming around the kitchen island, I'm going to take my breath here and. and then I'm getting the bread. Okay, I'm closing it. Exhale." Like it was. crazy. But the first week that we were. in that house. it was magic. It was we were all and. that's kind of what it's like being on a.

show. It's like summer camp or Love. Island. You're all in with less glam. You are all in the same place. You are. caring about the same thing. You're. talking about the same thing. You are. eating your meals together. I was So those cold cuts were in there. so I could prepare the meals for the. family for our week of rehearsals. The. fridge smell still smelled great so it. was fine. >> Okay. >> But. it was really this amazing time where we. were sharing and getting to know each.

other and there was rigor on the set, too. We didn't have a huge budget so we. would shoot up to eight or 10 pages a. day sometimes. When we went to Chicago, there were no sides on set ever. No. sides. All actors were No sides for. crew, either. >> Can you explain what that means to. people? >> when you get to set ordinarily, people. shrink down the script to this kind of. like pocket-size version and you just. have the pages that you're going to. shoot that day. So if actors haven't. learned their lines, um which some choose not to, um.

they can look at them or people can. refer to them. So everyone's got a. little like mini mini Bible of what. you're making today. John Wells doesn't believe in that. He. believes everyone should show up and be. ready to do the job. So he doesn't make. those available. They're literally not. produced. So, if you want sides on set, you got to lug your whole script around. Um so, that meant that everyone showed. up completely ready to work. at all times. There were no last looks. Last looks is when your hair and makeup.

team come in when they say the cameras. are ready to roll and they touch you up. Zero. We didn't have sides, we didn't. have last looks. It was the best. training camp for 10 years of show up on. time, be ready. That This is my home. >> But you're like. >> home. This is my jail for me. I don't. need touch-ups, I don't want touch-ups. I want to make I want to I want to make. Let's make some feelings. >> Right. And this is like back to what. you're saying about the opera. You're. like, this is it. And I know that there.

has been reports of like 20-hour. production days and the set could be. challenging at times. Like, how do you. look back on that period when you like. hear those things? Like, do you stay. positive? >> I mean, I love that show and our. experience so much. 20-hour production. days are they happen. And when we were. in Chicago, we would shoot two units at. once. We would So, you would be.

shooting over here, you would change. sometimes like in a. restroom at a gas station or sometimes. like you would do a quickie change like. behind a dive coat on the sub on the L. train. You would go to the next. location, but we were so enmeshed with. each other. We were so in each other's. lives. We spent 10 to 16 to 20 hours a. day. 5 days a week, 5 months a year for 9. years together.

So, it's impossible not to be so close. >> Um did you ever feel like your work. ethic was. mislabelled. in the press or in those moments where. you were showing up and doing your job. >> That wasn't my experience. I felt very, very nurtured and shepherded by John. Wells who encouraged me to direct on the. show which I got to do many times. My.

cast also. was very championing of me to do that. Um. I certainly come to the set to work. Um and I bring my all and I think like. many women. we care deeply and we prepare deeply and. we love what we do. But I. um I mean I I love that job so much and. I I felt like I was I felt like I was.

born on that job. That I that's where I. learned to direct. John also was so. shepherding of my writing as well giving. notes on the first script that I had. written. Um hiring me to direct on. another one of his shows. Um and those. are all my buds. Like we're close. I'm. seeing one of them tonight on set so I'm. I'm really grateful for that time and. it has a. just nothing but happiness in my heart. for it. >> Okay, we're going to close out Shameless.

conversation with some rapid fire. Okay. If you had to pick which of Fiona's exes. would she end up with? >> Jimmy Steve. They just They're just so good together. I mean, yeah. He's He's not always. honest at all but I just love them. together. >> Jimmy Steve. There There even in in the. honesty lies the problem. We thought his. name was one thing. >> Loved him. >> It's another thing. He was cast before I. was, too. Yeah. And we had made a movie together. um called Dragonball Evolution a couple.

years before so I already knew him and. the second that I knew he was cast I. couldn't wait to work with him again. >> amazing. [clears throat]. >> Okay, which Gallagher sibling were you. the closest to off camera? >> Lip. >> Okay, let's talk about good old Jeremy. Who do you think was more stubborn. character-wise, Fiona or Lip? >> Lip. >> But I've seen Fiona. >> [laughter]. >> You're like, obviously, he was the. problem. Okay, what is your one of one. of your favorite memories with Jeremy. Allen White on set?

>> Anytime we had a scene that was just us, where we could really dig in, either a. quiet scene or. scenes where we went at each other. He's so he has so much soul and he. brings. so much intensity and so much truth and. honesty. That's the kind of the. beautiful thing about playing characters. for I mean, I made 110 episodes of the. show. They made more than that than I. did. And.

after a certain point, the writers start. to write little bits of you in there. And they start to understand like the. symbiosis of how you guys work together. And. I'm so happy for him and proud of him. and. and he's such an incredible human being. and incredible actor and I just feel. lucky that we got to share all those. scenes together. >> No, I know. I was thinking about that. like how crazy to see.

that success that he's having and have. been probably feeling like he's like a. brother to you on this set and then to. see obviously like you both having so. much success. That must be so. gratifying. >> It's amazing. >> It's amazing. Okay, um. what is your favorite off camera memory. that you have with the cast? In Chicago, we had this massive massive. snowstorm and we got shut down for one. day. We would go to Chicago to shoot twice a.

season and we all stayed in the same. hotel and we would we in and out of each. other's rooms and we ate all meals. together and. we. got this piece of cardboard. to like be a makeshift sled and Justin. Chatwin. saw a truck and got on the piece of. cardboard and like rode it down the. road. He's such a He's such a daredevil.

and I have this video of us all watching. him do it being like, "Don't do it, but. also do it." Oh. And that was kind of. like we had a lot of kind of mischievous. play and. >> That tracks. >> craziness and it was just incredibly. fun. >> Love it. What Fiona decision will you go. down defending? >> God. >> I mean, I think. the worst time she ever up was. when she left the cocaine around that I.

think Robbie had given her and Liam got. into it and he ended up hospitalized for. it. And I think that that was the worst I. ever saw her and certainly when I read. it. I was terrified of the scene because. of how I. I cared about Fiona even though it made. for really good drama. >> Oh my god, not you like reading that. scene you're like. >> I'm like, "Oh, it's really good drama,

but like oh god, I got to do this now.". >> Okay, off the top of your head, most. emotional scene to film. >> Certainly in the. prison, the strip search scene was. really. very challenging. >> It's so crazy cuz that show was so funny. in moments, but like my parents are. rewatching it and they're like, "It's. dark." What's an iconic line of dialogue. from the show that you still remember? >> I don't think it was even in the show, but we had this off-camera joke of look. what you could have had, Craig Heisner.

>> That was like maybe Shameless line, but. maybe not. >> And it was about Taylor Kinney who. played this guy Craig Heisner that Fiona. was into in high school and he ends up. married, but then she ends up sleeping. with him even though he's married. >> Um. >> I like that line. >> So I I think I don't know if that was in. there, but that's what we used to say a. lot. >> Call Her Daddy is brought to you by. Häagen-Dazs. Daddy gang, I think we all. deserve a little more me time, whether. it's work, school, or whatever is. bringing you down. It's so important to.

take a second to slow down and treat. yourself. And lately, my favorite way to. do this is with some rich, smooth, creamy ice cream, and none better than. Häagen-Dazs. You guys, you have to try their cherry dark. chocolate bar. Let me just tell you. something, okay? Picture rich cherry ice. cream with some tart cherry ribbons all. covered in a thick layer of dark. chocolate. Yes, it's the kind of thing. you don't want to just eat, but you like. literally experience, okay? Usually, I'm. the type to just like crush a dessert in.

2 seconds, but this Oh girls, I'm taking. my time. I'm like savor every bite. Häagen-Dazs is just one of those things. that's meant to be savored. I've. literally been eating Häagen-Dazs since. I came out of the womb. My entire family. has always had it stocked in our fridge. It'd be like movie night, boom, sit. down, get our Häagen-Dazs. And now the. cherry dark chocolate bar, it's always. in my hand, okay? It is just a perfect. sweet treat that I just can't get enough. of. It's my go-to treat at the end of a. long work day. So, take your sweet time. That's Dazs, available at retailers.

nationwide. >> Okay, I want to talk about a huge. accomplishment of yours, your fight for. pay equity on Shameless. >> How did you first decide to even take. that on? >> Well, when I started the show, um it made a lot of sense that Macy made. a lot more money than me. He was coming. in much older, much more accomplished, tons more credits, and number one on the call sheet. And. then by season 3, they approached us. We. had a 6-year contract, approached us to.

add another year. And I think my lawyers felt at that time. that. we had the receipts. Like we could see the way the shorts the. story lines were shaping. We knew about. fan engagement. And we felt that it made. sense to ask for that. We didn't get it. And that's fine. We thought, you know, we tried. We didn't get it. Um and then in season. five or six,

they came and they asked for. more, more years. So I guess at six we. extended to seven, and then maybe in. seven, they came and they asked for eight, nine. That's right. And by that point, I. had been directing a lot on the show, and it very much felt like a two-hander. And. we said, "Let's go for it again.". Um. it was.

kind of shut down pretty fast, and. we kind of. that kind of. lingered for a while. Um. and then I wasn't sure if we were going. to get it. Um. it it's always scary asking for. what you think you're worth. To say, "I think this is what I'm. worth.". You have to take up space in the room. And.

it's their job to make the show for as. little as possible to make the most. profit. That's any. business runs that way. So Kai can. understand it from the other. perspective, too. Um. and I didn't know if they were going to. come over to our side and do it or not. Um. and we were getting kind of close to. filming the next season. And.

I was. one day sitting I was like on a writer's. retreat and I was procrastinating and I. opened up Twitter. And. it was a headline. that we were in like a stalemate. And I was shook. >> Cuz you had intended for this whole. thing to stay private. >> Yeah, it's a private business. negotiation negotiation and I. never imagined it would become public.

Not just for the public, but also for. the rest of the cast and the crew. >> Right, because the cast wasn't aware. obviously. Everyone Everyone was doing. their own negotiation. >> And. so I certainly didn't want that. >> How did you. manage that once it broke on Twitter? Like did you reach out to cast? Did they. reach out to you? Like cuz it's a little. awkward. >> say. anything. Um.

and. after the first headline or article. I was kind of like. refresh refresh refresh. What's going to happen? Um. and the tide really shifted. People seemed. to write other articles like immediately. commenting on that. Kind of being quite surprised that I. wasn't already being paid equal. Um.

and it was resolved within a day. I was. shocked. Shocked and quite frankly very very. surprised. that we actually got it. >> Wow, so maybe the public commentary. actually really helped in your favor cuz. it like woke people up to be like. she's not delusional. >> Yeah. >> Like guys, what are we doing here? >> Yeah. >> I also think something that's so. interesting is like. when men advocate for their worth.

>> Mhm. >> they seem strong and it's kind of you. know they're competitive and it can even. be strategic. >> Sure. >> And when a woman does it you can just. come off as difficult and ungrateful for. what you have been given. As you were. navigating all of that before it you. know got released on Twitter did you. feel. this pressure to remain likable during. the negotiations cuz these are people. that you know you have to work with.

>> I only desire to remain professional. And my focus is never on money. It's on. um. what's fair and what's right and I. believe that. people. should be paid for their labor. It was really about being valued. equally when I was doing equal work.

Um so for me it was as simple as that. Um and I was very very happy. when we got it and very very happy for. what it seemingly did for. for for other women who I you know I was. like in a health food store in Ontario. or somewhere in Canada making a movie a. year later and a girl in the health food. store said to me oh thank you so much. for what you did for pay equity. We all. asked for a raise here.

And I couldn't imagine that it had. traveled so far. I think you know. I think ambition and wanting to be in. the driver's seat of your life is not. something to be shied away from. >> [clears throat]. >> I think. I think likeable is is should not be the. focus. It focuses on outward in, not. what we know to be true about ourselves. and our worth. >> And I think like I agree. I think that's.

the goal, right? I remember when I. interviewed Ellen Pompeo and she talked. to me about her contract negotiations. with Grey's Anatomy and she was like, "Girl, no one is going to give it to you. You. have to ask for it.". >> Oh my god. >> Very interesting. >> Oh, that's very interesting. >> much. >> I like her very much, too. Oh, wow. Okay, because when Ellen said. that to me, I was like, "Oh my god, you're so right. No one is going to give.

it to you. You like you got to go for. it.". >> There were also a lot of men on my team. who were like, "Let's get this. We are. going to get this. We are not going to go back unless we. get this." So, it wasn't me saying I. want this. There were a lot of times. where I felt scared and wanted to cave. I was like, "Who cares? I love this. show. I love these people. I want to do. this." And they were like, "No. We're. not doing this. We're not doing it.". Because I had caved once before. I had.

caved in the first contract negotiation. and Yeah. >> I also just I really appreciate you. talking about it because I think it's. just such an uncomfortable conversation. for so many people because you think. about money and you think about men. And. so like we're kind of dancing around a. topic that historically just has not. been synonymous with women and so to. reacclimate people's brains to like, "No, no, no, no, no. I'm doing the same. job as this person who happens to be a.

man, but why are we not making the same. amount or why like where is the pay. equity? It it sparks a larger. conversation. Like Twitter obviously. took it and ran with it. Um but it does. still there is that fear within you that. it's fascinating. It's like would a man. be scared? Because we're kind of trained. of like. how far do you want to push it? >> And I'm so pleased that now this equity. conversation is being had. >> a conversation. >> It is very hard for women to get what.

they are worth because there is a double. standard. >> Do you have any advice for women who. have a hard time. advocating for themselves and and for. their worth? >> Practice it at home. Practice saying it. out loud. Practice saying what you need. and what you want in every aspect of. your life. Sexually, say what you want. With your. partner, say what you want. Eat what you. want for dinner. Don't eat the thing you. think you should eat for dinner.

Do what you really want and and treat. yourself in the way that you want to be. treated. It's also like I wanted to stay in the. job. I loved the job. I wasn't walking. away from the job. Um. I loved the job and. I loved the job until it felt like there. wasn't enough juice to squeeze out of. the lemon. We had made 110 episodes and. by the time I left and they offered us. two more years. I I had already started my production. company. I had set up my first show and.

I was greenlit and getting ready to make. it. So when they came with two more. years, I felt beholden to the other job. and I you know, I think a common. misconception is I left to go have. babies. That could not be further from the. truth. I left to go make the show I had. been developing that our showrunner John. Wells had encouraged me to kind of get. in the driver's seat of my own career. and make my own shows and. make things and.

I left with a lot of grief and sorrow. because I would I would miss all those. people and I couldn't believe that they. were going to go on the journey without. me. But I was also really excited. I felt. like I was launching and getting ready. to start this new chapter of my life. >> Also, I I I wasn't aware of that rumor. I'm like, that is Of course. That is so. on the nose, Emmy, of what we're talking. about. We're like, of course it was. people. >> like she left the industry to go have. babies. She moved back to New York. >> Obviously. >> Yeah. >> Obviously.

>> Of course. >> Um I want to talk about dating. >> Yeah, I love that topic. >> Okay. When you look back on your life, >> Yes. >> do you notice any patterns or okay. >> You're like, where do I begin? Put me. in, coach. Let me write you a. dissertation right now. Patterns or. similarities between the guys that you. were drawn to in your single and early. dating days? >> Oh. Intensity.

Intensity. Intensity. I don't know. >> Explain. >> Well, I don't know. My first great love was when I was about. 18. and. he was the older brother of one of my. closest friends. So, I had known him a. little bit from when I was younger and. he asked her to ask me if he could ask.

me out. and I thought it was so cute and she was. kind of like lol, like this is going to. work out. Like you should totally go out. go out with him. So, I did and. he picked me up in a Hummer which I. thought was ridiculous and I told him. immediately, this is a ridiculous. vehicle for New York City. >> In New York? >> Uh-huh. >> This man owned a Hummer in New York. City. >> And. um. >> He thought it was a flex, though. >> For sure. >> What color was it? >> It was like light green or gray or it.

was not amazing. >> Um but I gave him for it and um he. liked that, so I liked that. Um. and then the second date. he um. oh, he let me drive the car. I had had. no license. and I had never driven a car. And after. dinner, he was like, "Do you want to. drive, you know, yourself home?" And. then I was like, "Do you want to drive. the Hummer?" Do you want to drive the. Hummer? >> And I was like, "I don't have a. license." And he's like, "I'll teach you.

how to drive." And I was like, "What?". This is great. And he was like, "You got to accelerate. into the turns." And I was like, "Oh, this guy's intense. Like, love this." Um. we didn't kiss. Um and I started dating him when I had. shot. Day After Tomorrow and Phantom of the. Opera, but neither of them had come out. yet. So, it was this in like quiet. little chapter in my life before. everything kind of exploded. And the second date, I was on the press. tour for The Day After Tomorrow and. >> What a good movie. >> He Thank [snorts] you. So fun to make.

Um I love Jake Gyllenhaal. And we. we were on the press tour in Paris and. he flew to Paris to take me on the. second date. >> On the second date, this man flew to. Paris. >> Mhm. He was. 20. I was 18, I think. And he said, "I have. a surprise for you.". And he shut down the Palace of. Versailles. and took me on a date there. >> Emmy. >> It was It was epic. >> He shut down Versailles for you?

>> And it was misty and raining. >> And you're 18. >> for the first time at the Palace of. Versailles. And I was like, "This is the. rest of my life, right?". >> How is that a second date? >> Intense. Intense. >> Very intense. And when you look back, like what does that intensity in a. relationship like really feel like and. ignite. in you? >> Um.

I don't know. I. I'm also drawn to people that are very. good at what they do. >> Mhm. >> His family was art dealers and he was. extremely educated in art and history. and spoke multiple languages and. was like a fisherman and could do a lot. of things. Um. and I. found that really interesting. >> I mean, I I completely agree. I think. when you can be.

intellectually stimulated but also. watching someone be really good at a. craft, it's extremely attractive. >> like opacity. I don't want to wonder if. you like me or not. I don't want to play games. I don't want. to be in a relationship. I don't want to be like, is he going to. No. I will know if I like you and I want. to know if you like me. >> But, date two. >> Yeah. >> Paris, >> Yes. >> Versailles, >> Yes. >> we're shutting it down. >> Yes. >> It leaves.

a fall off opportunity because what is. date three, four, five and where do we. go from here when the intensity is so. intense? Like obviously you're saying. you saw patterns. >> I mean, we were together for almost two. years. >> And at 18, that's pretty long. >> Yeah. >> When did you ever come down from that. relationship? >> Well, I Maybe we were together for a. year and a half. It felt like a long. time. I. It was the first time I moved out of my. house where I'd grown up with my mom and.

I moved into his house with his family, his whole family. So, my friend, they. all lived on different floors of the. house. So, my friend that I had grown up. with, she was like on the third floor. We were on the second floor. The parents. were on the top floor. It was like all a. big family in a house. >> how the people when they were trying to. cast you for Shameless they're like, "I. don't know if you're really her. Everything in your life so far is like I. am Fiona Gallagher in a different. extent.". >> And then the first time I went away to. make a movie.

when we were together, um I was going to. be gone for 6 months, just in LA. And it. was the first time we'd really been. apart and we had been to the Oscars. together. We had really kind of enmeshed. in each other's lives and my world had. really kind of changed and exploded and. he had been along, you know, for the. ride on that with me. And I was going to be away for 6 months. and he worked in New York. And I. remember on a call he said something. like, "Well, do you think you're going to like. continue to do more of this?". And I said, "Hopefully. That's the.

plan." And that was not the answer he. was looking for. And so I was really heartbroken. I I. remember I cried for hours for days, days. I was very heartbroken. >> like, "Do I pick my career or the guy. I'm in love with?". >> Yeah, and I was like, "Well, my identity. cannot be the cost. My. being an artist, which I've been since. I'm 7 years old,

cannot be the cost for being in love.". >> Did you find that you continued to crave. intensity again? >> Sure. >> Did you slow things down ever? Did you. ever have a slow burn, Emmy? Or no? [laughter]. >> My husband is a slow burn. >> We're going to get there. >> Yeah. >> We're going to get there. Don't fast. forward. >> Okay, hold on. Hold on. >> Yeah. >> still in the like you were looking for. intensity. >> Yeah. >> You would find yourself enjoying it in. the beginning. Eventually it would burn.

out. >> Yes. >> Um 21. >> Yes. >> you got married. >> Oops. >> [laughter]. >> Oops. Oops. Okay. Tell me about what what happened. >> You know that smoke detector that you're. supposed to hear in your head? Well, I heard it and I ignored it. Um. After I dated Versailles guy, who we will call him now, Versailles.

guy, who's now by the way happily. married, lovely kids, and I'm still. friends with his sister. Um love that for him. Um. I dated a guy whose favorite pastime was. breaking up with me in public. We would like to order the meal. and then he would say things to me like. um. "Just feel like you're growing so much. from knowing me, but like I don't know. that I'm growing that much from knowing.

you.". Yeah. I'm like, on average, how many times do. you think he did this to you? >> [laughter]. [gasps]. >> Two or three. >> And me? >> Two or three. >> And you would just sit there and like. >> I really liked him. I really liked him. He was really He was. really talented. I was very attracted to. his talent, his power on stage. We had. done Romeo and Juliet together and he. had been Mercutio and Mercutio was just.

like a real panty dropper. And I was just But yeah, I really liked. him. And so there were like two very. consecutive rough heartbreaks. >> How did your mother feel about you. getting married at 21? >> Well, she felt great about it cuz she. didn't know. Yeah. >> When did she find out? >> I started dating Justin and he worked at. Interscope Records that I was signed to.

Um. And. we were dating for. maybe a couple months. We were certainly we liked each other. And then I got Dragon Ball Evolution. And I was going to go away for 6 months. to Mexico, to Durango, Mexico, the. middle of Mexico, and make this movie. And I remember the day that I was going. wait a minute make the movie, he said. something to me like, I don't know if.

the relationship is going to survive the. distance. So like maybe we should break up or. get married. >> [laughter]. >> How could I make this up? >> And me? >> Yeah. >> You. >> I literally had a flight that night to. Durango, Mexico. And so I think the decisions that we. She's dead. She's dead. >> I am obsessed with you. You're like. So it had we had to get married. >> Yeah. >> So from either break up or get married.

>> Yeah. Well, at that moment. I thought to myself, well, I'm just. coming off these two really rough. heartbreaks. Like abandonment is my core wound. I. don't want. I don't want that. That hurts to me. And. I literally thought my 21-year 20. 20-year-old. >> 21. >> Maybe. >> Yeah. >> My 21-year-old brain thought.

you know, divorce doesn't seem that. complicated. Like it it's probably. pretty straightforward. >> How did that work out? >> It wasn't not straightforward. >> Okay. >> It like I But but no, but it you know, and I I I knew that I. >> No, you planned the divorce before you. >> 100%. And so we he he he literally. printed out like a marriage contract. online and got some guy on the internet. to like come over to my house. Um. I found like a white turtleneck that was.

in my closet and like threw it on cuz. like I was like, "This is appropriate, right?". >> Yeah, yeah. Remember that? >> Literally not hearing the smoke detector. in my head being like, "Don't do this. You don't have to do this.". No guy should be like, "Let's marry" You. know what I mean? It was my intention. not to tell anyone cuz I knew in my gut. it wasn't right. >> How long were you married for? >> I think. we're married for Oh, I was away for 6. months. When I got back it became. abundantly clear we weren't a match in. any way. Um.

>> Did he come to visit you in Mexico? >> I don't think so. >> Oh. >> I don't remember that happening. >> That's interesting cuz he's like. >> Also it's like not that long of a. flight. I don't know what like everyone. was very dramatic. I don't know like. it's literally just like going to You. people go to Mexico for the weekend. Like what are we talking about? >> it's like, "If you leave, like we're not. going to make it, so we have to get. married." Do you think it was dramatic? >> Okay, okay. So you come back and then. eventually you're like, "This isn't. working.". >> the thing. >> When did you tell your mom? >> I told my mom, "Hey, I'm breaking up. with Justin and I need a lawyer." And.

she was like, "You did not.". And I was like, "I did." And my mom has. always been somebody that mobilizes. My mom is like like if anyone is going. through a breakup, my mom is not. employed right now. So if you need. someone to show up, she'll like send you. for a manicure and be like, "I have the. U-Haul. Like go take care of yourself.". >> mom's first name? >> Cheryl. >> Cheryl is going to be there to be like, "Girl, >> let's get the divorce papers.". >> Yeah.

>> Oh, wow. Okay, so she mobilized for you. >> Yeah, she mobilized. >> And you got the out. >> Yeah. >> Almost a decade later, >> Yeah. >> you met your now husband on a movie set. What drew you to him? Was there intensity there? Tell me. everything. >> Okay. We met on my. birthday. We had. a meeting about a movie that he had. written, the first movie that he was.

ever going to make. And when. a director offers you a movie, they send. you an email through your agents, and. there's usually the script, maybe a. lookbook, and usually a letter that. expresses. why they think you're right for the. movie and tells you a little bit about. the movie. And sometimes with a. first-time filmmaker, they'll tell you a. little bit about themselves. So, >> No. >> Yeah. So, I brought you the letter.

because I knew we were going to talk. about relationship. >> I am shocked. No one has ever done this. on Call Her Daddy. Emmy, >> I have the letter. >> Where is my popcorn? Oh. >> I'm not going to read the whole thing. cuz my husband is long-winded. His films. are long, and his letter is long. But, this is the letter that he wrote. me. I'm going to read some excerpts of. it. >> Give it to us. Oh, I'm so ready. >> So, here's the thing. You're a beautiful, successful actress.

>> Thank you. >> With a long career ahead of you, doing. my movie would require you to take a. gamble on somebody you don't know. So, I'll give you a rough sketch of whom. we're dealing with. I'm a screenwriter reluctantly living in. Los Angeles wishing I were in Manhattan. I'm tall, but I hunch. My parents are. Egyptian, but I was born in New Jersey. I'm too nerdy to be a hipster and too. cool to be a nerd, so I have friends and. enemies on both sides of the aisle. The. entire situation fills me with a lot of. anxiety, a lot. I do not care much for.

money. I also don't have much of it. given my incredible Dartmouth and NYU. student loan debt. I also want to make movies because I. have to. I'll explain. I was in therapy. the other day analyzing the very. subject. I wanted to be a filmmaker ever. since I was eight, and it's been a long. long arduous journey to get there. And. I'm telling all of this to Coddle. That's my therapist's name. It's pronounced like Coddle. How fitting.

Anyway, Coddle sits there all intense. and pensive like he normally is and says. the same thing he normally says, "This. is just your career, Sam. There's more. to life than your work." I hated him for. using that word. I finally told him, "Stop using that word. This is not a. career." That session turned ugly and. weird, but it also turned out to be very. important. It's when we realized I don't. look at this like a job. It's the same. way a mom wants to be a mom, a dad wants to be a dad, or a pet wants.

to be petted. It's a want that just is. If there were. a parallel universe where filmmaking was. the equivalent of a $30,000 a year. factory job, I'd be there. >> And I was like, "Who is this?". That sounds like. >> into it. He's like, "I'm in therapy.". I'm like, "Check. Check.". >> "I love my job. I'm tall, but I hunch.". I'm like, "Who is this voice?". >> I'm not a nerd I'm not a hipster." Like. all the everything. So, when you get.

that, >> Yeah. >> what is your first reaction? >> sitting in the hair and makeup trailer. at Shameless, and I. was reading the letter before I had read. the script, and I turned to Shinola. Hampton and Sharon Rivera, our head of. hair, and was like, "Can I read you this. letter? I think I'm supposed to know. this person.". And there was something that was just. like immediately familiar or intriguing. or something. So, I read the script, and. it was undeniable. And I was like, "Who. is this person?".

And then I met him, and he showed up in a American Apparel. hoodie in a vintage Prius, and. he had lookbooks upon lookbooks upon. lookbooks about what the film was going. to be, how he was going to make it. And. I was immediately impressed by his. work ethic and his vision and. thought he was a really interesting. person. >> What did it feel like. after you are like, I am so impressed.

with this person, I am already into it by his writing. Then you meet him, >> Mhm. >> see him for the first time, hear his. voice. >> Mhm. >> When does it turn from work to romance? >> We knew each other for about a year. We. developed the movie, went and found. financing for the movie, put the movie. together, he cast it. And then. we started We had spent time together. over that year.

And. I remember I started thinking about life. through the lens of him. I would be eating a sandwich and I'd be. like, I wonder if Sam likes tuna? Or I'd be like, you know, I drove past. um. a museum and was like, I wonder if Sam. would like to see the Kubrick exhibit. I. wonder if Sam would think that's funny. And. it. I was so curious about him and I.

I had spent so long trying to find. someone that I thought would understand. me. when I realized maybe what I'm after is. trying to find somebody I never want to. stop trying to understand. Like I was so fascinated by him. And. then. about a week before we made the movie, he. came over to my house for dinner. and. he said, um I've just been to therapy.

and I really have to get this off my. chest. Coddle. and I talked about this and I have to. tell you that I love you. And we hadn't even started the movie. yet. I was like, "Huh?". Um. I did not say it back. I did not know. how I felt. Um. And then we started the movie a week. later. >> What did you say back?

>> Bon appetit. I don't really remember. saying much of anything. I think he said. something like, "But I But I don't mean it like that. What I mean is like I mean I do, but I. also don't. Like obviously I'm me and. you're you and I'm sure that like, you. know, you could never love me and one. day I'm sure that I'll be at your. wedding and I'll always love you from. afar and. nothing ever has to happen. Obviously it. won't. And I just needed to say that.". >> And then the rest is history. Eventually.

>> Yeah, I mean the second that I got on. set and I saw him, he was so kind and capable and he played. really good music at Video Village and. he gave really good notes. And so. suddenly he went from someone. Suddenly he was really sexy. His like quiet power was like, "Oh no.". So then I said after the first week, "I. think I love you, too." And he was like, "No, you don't." And I was like, "Yes, I.

do.". And he was like, "Okay, here's what's. going to happen. I'm going to kiss you. and you're going to be like, 'I don't feel anything' and then we're. just going to go back to the way And I. was like, 'What are you doing?'. Just do it already.". And he's like, "But it can't mess up the. movie." And I was like, "Okay, it. won't.". >> And then it didn't mess up the movie. >> And then we kissed and we've basically. we broke the couch. We broke the couch. We had an L sofa. and we broke the couch. broke.

>> couch. Yeah, and that was 14 years ago. >> 14 years ago. >> Yeah. >> Can you talk about how you've said. throughout our conversation today, you. know, like I have these abandoned. abandonment wounds and you know, I know. your relationship with your or lack. thereof relationship with your father. was extremely complicated. Like how did. you. finding such a stable incredible partner. that you love so much like have you been.

able to look at that relationship with. your father and whether it's healed some. wounds or just like how do you feel. about it now? >> Oh, it's such a good question. My. relationship with my husband and. watching him be the world's greatest. girl dad. He was like made to be a girl. dad. Um, it's the ultimate healing. The ultimate. And my husband is so loyal and so kind. and so giving and so.

everything I've really ever wanted. >> That's so beautiful. I didn't even think. about that like you're getting. it's it's healing watching him do to. your daughters what you. >> get. >> get. >> Yeah. >> And to watch him do it so incredibly. >> Yeah, effortlessly. >> and to do it to such a caliber that like. you're. >> never ever leave her. >> Wow, that's really beautiful. Cuz I feel. like I'm sure there's so many women. watching who have complicated. relationships or don't have. relationships with their father and that.

is such a. from experience with my friends who have. a similar situation where you're like I. don't have the relationship and I and. some of my friends are like I don't even. want it. But trying to find your way. forward with those male figures in your. life and like put in place like what. that would look like in your ideal world. to be able to like get it and to watch. it, how healing that must feel.

I'm so happy for you. >> It's moving. >> Yeah. >> It is. >> Have you ever reached out or ever spoken. to your father again since. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> your your younger? Okay. >> I met my dad when I was four, but I. wasn't told he was my dad. And. >> that? >> He told my mom that he wouldn't come if. she told me who he was. >> So you thought you were just meeting. like a. >> I he a guy came to one of my mom's. friends came to take me for dinner for. my birthday, and I was four or five, so.

I didn't ask many questions about it. I. didn't really get it. And. Sky came and took me for dinner, and we. went for spaghetti, and I don't remember. much of it. The only thing I remember is. I, you know, kids cut their spaghetti, and I remember he said, "We don't cut. our spaghetti.". And I went home, and my mom was like, "How was it?" And I was like, "He said. we don't cut our spaghetti." And she was. like, "Okay." So then a couple years. later, after hearing at school in. kindergarten and first and second grade, you know, "Who's your dad? Why You know,

it wasn't it wasn't. common to have a single-parent. household, at least the when I was. growing up, it wasn't as common. Um. all the families that I grew up in. looked very traditional and. conventional, and so I felt that absence. very much. And so I started asking my. mom more and more, "Who's my dad? Just. tell me who's my dad." And she's like, "You remember that guy that came to take. you for dinner?" And I was like, "We. don't cut our spaghetti guy is my dad?".

And she's like, "We don't cut our. spaghetti guy is your dad." And I was. devastated. I was like, "I didn't like we don't cut our. spaghetti guy." She's like, "I know.". Um. Yeah. >> And then did you ever. >> I did. I I met him once when I was. eight. He took me to Casper, and he fell. asleep. But I did but did develop a deep. crush on Devon Sawa, so the day was not. for naught. >> Completely lost. Okay. >> Um and then I didn't really see him. again until I was on Shameless in my.

20s. And. um. we tried a couple times, um. but he is just not really interested in. loving me. >> Oh. >> But my husband is amazing with my. daughter and getting to watch him. play with her, pick her up from school, be so incredibly devoted as a dad and to. my son, too. Um. getting to watch the fact that I got to. give her something.

that I didn't get. is. I get to live vicariously through that. and that's enough for me. >> It's beautiful. Intimacy. >> Yeah. >> How has your understanding of intimacy. changed since your early 20s? >> Well, I'm so much better at asking for. what I want now. I. you know that that little voice inside. of you that says I'd like to be touched. like this or I'd like this or I don't.

like that or that feels. I felt that my voice. felt quiet and stifled when I was. younger. I felt shame about expressing. desire. I felt shame about expressing. specifics that I wanted about using the. words. But you have to tell somebody. what you want. And also. what you want on Monday doesn't mean you. want it on Thursday. And it's okay to. say, "Yeah, I wanted that on Monday. I. don't want that today." You know, like.

it's okay to grow and change and I feel. like I have a lot more comfort and part. of that was my pregnancy because my. hormones were so strong. and I felt so sexual. I was so down that. it was the voice was so loud in my head, it was screaming that I couldn't ignore. it. >> Call Her Daddy is brought to you by. Tinder. Daddy gang, I was going through. my liked songs yesterday, and it is. crazy to see how many eras of my life I. have been through. There were some down.

bad breakup songs. There are my happy. and love songs. There's my teen angsty. music still on there from high school. And let's just say I've, you know, I've. had a lot of phases, okay? You can tell. a lot about someone by what they're. currently listening to, which is where. Tinder's new music mode feature comes. in. Now with music mode, you can add. your favorite songs right to your. profile and easily connect with someone. who actually gets your taste. Tinder is. making it easy to get straight into the. important stuff like whether your music.

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Download Tinder today. >> Can we talk about motherhood? >> Yeah. My favorite topic. >> I'm pregnant, obviously, and I feel like. a lot of the advice that I'm getting for. parenting advice, a lot of people just. keep saying like, "Oh my god, you kind. of just have to figure things out." Like. that's people can try to prepare you and. tell you what's going to happen. How did you personally embrace the. uncertainty. of not having all of the answers and not. being able to look at the page like you. said you do your script and fill in the.

blanks and prepare and be ready and then. get onto that set and like take it 100%. like a pro? You kind of can't do that from what I. understand with motherhood, Emmy. Tell me. >> You kind of and you can't. Like you can. prepare, but then you never know how. things are going to hit you. >> Yeah. >> And there's like so much instinct at. play. You will just know. At least for me, I can only say from my. experience. I saw my child. I knew my. child. And.

I was so taken. I I You know, I had the. same thing. where that I said about my mom, I wanted. to be a mother that was worthy of being. this child's mother. And then I realized. I'm trying too hard. I'm trying too hard. to be worthy of anybody else. I just got. to be me. And. And women are always told, you can have.

it all. You can. But that actually means you have to do. it all. And it comes at a cost. And. often that cost is not your job and not. your kid, but you. So when my daughter was 10 months old, this is an insane story. When my daughter was 10 months old, this is what my therapist calls the. pancake problem. I was going to shoot.

on The Crowded Room, and I had like a. 16-hour shoot day. And I was waking up. before she was going to wake up, and I. was coming home way before way after she. was going to be asleep. And I was like, how will my daughter. know. that I love her today? She will think I don't love her today. She's 10 months old. She doesn't know. what's going on, right? >> Of course. >> She literally doesn't know what's going. on. >> has no clue. >> So I thought, okay, look, the car is. going to pick me up in like 20 minutes, but I have to do some things so that my. daughter knows I love her today. So I. have to take a shower.

I have to get in the car in 20 minutes, but. I'm going to make my daughter pancakes. from scratch also before I leave. This is. So, I turn on the stove. I make the. batter. I turn it on low. I put three little. pancakes in the pan. And. um. I set a timer on my phone for 3 minutes. cuz that's generally how long until you. got to flip. I ran to the shower, got in the shower,

shampooed, washed it out. Ding ding ding, the timer goes off, time. to flip the pancakes. Got to get out of. the shower, but I still have to. condition, so I'll have to get back in. the shower. >> This is insane, but this is also so. postpartum. Like I was like in it the. first year. >> like wet towel like running back and. forth. You're naked. >> but I'm naked. I don't have time for a. towel. The pancakes are on and I'm in. the shower and I got to be in the car in. 15 minutes. Run to the pancakes. They're perfect. Flip them, gorgeous golden brown.

perfection. Sprint back to the shower, but I left the shower door just a crack. open, so the water. is on the floor. So, I slip and my foot. gets caught under the shower door and I. hear like a crack. And now I'm like down on the shower. floor. And I then scream out like someone turn. the pancakes off. I then like army crawl. to the kitchen. The pancakes were fine. I then called.

work and was like, "Hey, I'm going to I'm going to be a couple. minutes late and I need to switch my. pickup to Lenox Hill Hospital. Probably. like just like just just like 20 minutes. late. I'm so sorry. I just need like. probably a quick x-ray and I'll be right. I'll just a quick little x-ray and I'll. be right there." By the way, I didn't. hold camera. I was like I was completely. there on time. I got the x-ray. My. daughter got the pancakes and at the end. of the day I was like something's got to. change. Something's got to change. >> Okay, no, I'm listening to the story.

I'm like I thought that we were going to. we had to call in to work and we're like. out for work. No, she got the pancakes, she did the work. >> in a boot. >> And she lost her mind. >> Yeah, 100%. And so this was a lesson I learned that. year and got really, really good at. being like, I'm going to do less. But. it's something that comes up for me a. lot. Like just last week, I took I went. to set, I shot my first scene, I had. like the middle of the day off, I took. my kids to the zoo, I took them on a zip. line, we got lunch, I went back to set,

did my last scenes, went back, did bath. time, bed time, got on a Zoom. And I was. like, I'm depleted. I got a So this. pancake issue I think is real for a lot. of women, a lot of moms, who really want. to show up on every level in their. lives. They're showing up at work, they're showing up for their kids. No. one is feeling it, right? But they're. feeling it. And so I think for me the. biggest lesson is that sometimes it's. okay to do a little bit less.

>> I know, I feel like that's what. everyone's like, but then I feel so. guilty of like one area has to suffer. And like has that impacted the way that. you view your career and success at all? >> Mhm. Well, motherhood hasn't made me any. less. desirous. of. storytelling. or ambitious. >> Clearly not, that's why we're here. today. We're about to get there. >> Yeah, and I think it's made me more.

strategic and clearer. about when it's worth when the story is. worth. me missing even the smallest moments of. my kids' life. Like a normal day, I wake. up and I take them on the public bus and. I do drop-off and if I go to set, I go. to set and if not, I go about my day and. I pick up. Like I want to be in my kids'. lives as much as possible. >> Your new project. >> The show Furious. >> Yeah.

>> It is your production company's second. project. >> Yeah. >> And you are both the executive producer. and you are the star. So, congratulations doing both. >> Um. I. am so interested to hear you talk more. about it because it is obviously so like. female-led and I know that's what your. production company focuses on, but just. tell us a little bit more about it from. your perspective. >> Yeah. I.

really wanted to go back and look at old. films that had good skeletons of what. could make a. for a character that would be as rich. and as deep and as fascinating. as Fiona that I could play for years and. years. And. it's a really fascinating. world. It tells the story of my. character Alice, who is a former NYPD. detective, which is a very prestigious. job. It is not a job that people leave.

And Alice has left the police department. because she's been in an abusive. relationship with another officer who. she's known since her teenage years. And. she started over. um. at the FBI. So, she's a new FBI agent. who's really going to have to work her. way up and she stumbles upon this idea. that there's a murder that is connected. to an old case that she had at the NYPD. So, we are simultaneously. this serial killer, this really. fascinating mysterious woman who has.

been also a victim of violence and is um. kind of on a. mission to enact vengeance and get. justice for herself. And Alice's plan to. get justice on a much larger scale. Um. and we'll notice that the women are. actually more similar than they are. different. And I was really fascinated. to buy.

what happens for women in law. enforcement when. they need to make a complaint on their. own behalf. Like who do you call when. your partner. is hurting you? And is in also in law enforcement, you. call 911, and who answers the phone? The. partner of your partner whose. responsibility is to watch each other's. back on the street. It is incredibly. complicated dynamic. And very charged. And for Alice. who stumbles upon this case and then.

gets back involved with the NYPD who. she's been running from, um, to have to. see that former person at your new job. when you've done everything to get away. from them. And also. the relationship between Alice and her. ex is one that had violence and control, but also love and desire and loyalty and. history for a very, very long time. Um, so it's a very, very complicated like.

fertile ground and one that I was like, I could dig here for a long time. >> Well, I I agree. I my. uh team and I were talking about how we. just love these female characters, and I. know the show gets its title from the. Greek goddess of vengeance. You had. mentioned the word vengeance. >> Yes. Multiple goddesses, yeah. Who's. want to enact vengeance? >> Can you explain what really started to. interest you about female fury and rage?

>> Oh, well, I think women have a lot to be. furious about. Um, that felt cheesy, but. I didn't mean it that way. Um, cuz. that's the title of the show. It's okay. Um, no, I think, um, I think sometimes, as we see with these. characters, our power does come from being. underestimated. Um. for both of these women, they have to. work in the shadows outside the the.

conventions, and they both exhibit very. risky behavior. Um. and I think that that's why they're. fascinating to watch. >> Something that I love that you do a. little differently is. the central conflict yes, being at first. between these two women. Obviously, there's so many layers to it, but I feel. like neither woman neatly fits into the. hero or the villain box, which I love. that so much. And I'm curious like what.

interested you in kind of putting out a. show that does live in the gray. area. >> I love that. I mean, I think that's so. delicious. I think that. there's so much more kind of juice to be. found in moral gray areas than in people. who. seem one way, but then surprise you and. can be other ways. >> Mhm. No, I completely agree. Are there any themes.

that you have been really pulled to in. your life recently or any. I don't know, anything just like. thematically that you're like, "Oh, that's also something I want to. definitely explore in the future in a. project or whatever it be that you're. like, I think that's something as a. woman, especially with my. female-led company that I want to kind. of take on.". >> Yeah, I think I mean, I'm interested in. exploring all aspects of contemporary. womanhood. Anything that causes us. shame, anything that makes me.

uncomfortable or confused or. to feel some sort of way, that's what I. move towards. Certainly roles that scare. me, and this one did. >> I have so much respect for how much you. pour into your roles and obviously even. hearing you say like, "I wanted to find. something that. was as intense for me and like brought. it to life like Fiona." Because that. those are huge shoes to fill. Everyone. like thinks of that role and they're. like, "Oh my god, it was so iconic." And.

so the fact that you have such a passion. for this show coming out, I know it's. like how exciting as yes, an actress, but also on the back end being behind. the camera and bringing this to life. Um. I'm so happy for you. >> Thank you. >> cool. I literally was just like a sponge. wanting to talk to you about everything. and I know we went all over the place. today, but that was by design cuz I was. like, "I need to I know we only have so. much time, but I need to try to. cherry-pick every little thing from. you.". >> you very much.

>> Thank you for sitting with me and just. having some girl chat. >> Thank you so much. I appreciated it very. much. >> [music]. [music].