The WORST Debt In Financial Audit History

You had to put the ultimatum down. because of his behavior. >> She gave the whole like we aren't going. to get married if this keeps going. I. committed to stop spending on credit. cards. >> Okay. Well, here he is. He He broke it. He was spending on. >> I don't know if I've had a credit card. that has a bounce this high before. >> He treats you like a doormat. I want to. be clear. Look at his smug ass face. He. knows you're never going to leave. >> I mean, that's why I think I'm a little. bit resentful. >> You just said the word resent after a. honeymoon. This is going to build and. blow up. You're pathetic. You're not. worth another second of my time. The summer budget reset is now live. Get.

a full year of DollarWise Premium, plus. my four best-selling educational courses. and a digital copy of my budget friendly. cookbook and my exclusive 30-day meal. plan signed by me and mailed directly to. you. This is a better deal than we've. ever done before, and it's only for a. limited [music] time. It is 67% off. everything. So, don't wait until that. first pool party to get financially. ripped. Click the link below. Save big. Claim your bonuses now. Hi, I'm Kate. I'm 33 years old.

>> I'm Mike. I'm 34. We're from Northwest. Indiana. The region. [music]. >> And this is Financial Audit. >> Thanks for coming down from the region. Is that what it's called or is that. >> That's what people around us call. >> That's what we know it as. >> Yes. The region of the United States, Northwest Indiana. >> It's Chicago, but not Chicago. If we say. Chicago, all the Chicago people get mad. So, >> Well, it's cuz it's not Chicago. Thanks. for coming down, Kate. You're the one. that's in front of me. So, tell me what. you do for a living in the region. >> Uh, I'm an admin.

>> What do you admin? What kind of industry. do you admin? What do you What do you. admin? What's an admin? Admin is a very. generic term. >> Yeah. So, I have a what I call a desk. job. Um, >> also a very generic term. I'm glad you. call it that. Can you tell me what you. do for a living? >> Um, yeah. I work with the public. I work. with. [laughter]. >> I can't I like don't know how to like. express what I do because it's a lot of. I guess that's property values for tax. purposes but. >> there you go. Very good. What do you.

make? >> Uh I make 54,000 a year. >> which not bad in a poor area of the. country. >> Wow. Okay. >> Okay. It's not poor but as a Michigander. an hour away from the region it's kind. of. >> and you don't know what the region is. >> Lower. No, because no one calls it that. >> Gosh. Okay, whatever. >> No one gives a It's Northwest Indiana. >> Okay, >> there's the dunes. That's nice. >> We live on the dunes. >> Okay, calm down, guys. My goodness. >> We like where we live. >> Calm down. I said like, I know you're. excited to be here, but shut the up.

It's just like, yay, there's dunes. No. one else cares. >> It's a national park now. >> Yippee. Mike, what do you do? >> Uh, I'm a civil engineer. I design. roads, roundabouts, highways, >> bridges, >> all the traffic cones you see set up. everywhere that people want to run over. >> Yeah. Thanks for the roads and car. infrastructure, non-walkability, and. >> No, no, no. Complete streets is a real. thing. Complete streets. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. >> Thanks for making society worse. >> Sidewalks. Accessibility. >> Yeah. Sidewalks on the side of a. highway. That's wonderful. So, what do.

you make making everyone's lives worse? >> Uh 145. >> Of course, that's what we reward. Okay. Someone has to do it. >> Make lives worse. >> Who cares downhill? Okay, that's because. of us. Not me, but people in my. profession. >> Yeah. Shave the top of your head. It's. time. What do you trust me? >> What hits your account on a monthly. basis? >> Uh, it's like 1470 bi-weekly. So, >> okay. Very good. Very good. Now, the guy.

who's very clearly excited to be on this. show. >> Wow. >> Uh, what do you make. >> uh. >> per paycheck per month? paycheck. bi-weekly, it's like 3,800. >> Really? That's every other week. 38. I. mean, you guys are making a killing for. this area. >> We know. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Well, I'm going to let you know you're. on this show, meaning you're not doing. well. So, I'm glad you know you make. money. Why the is.

>> I like to spend money. >> Yeah. Way too much money on everything. >> Oh, him specifically. >> Well, I mean, I spend money, too. But. yeah, him. >> I spent it on [laughter] credit cards. >> You should have spent it on finasteride. >> I don't know what that is. >> I know. [laughter]. >> Is that to make my hair grow in? >> Yeah, you figured it out. >> See, whatever. Okay. Okay. So, we spend. a lot of money. But listen, I know for. sure that you guys are recently married, correct? >> Uh, yeah. 6 months October. >> Congratulations. I think we still say. that 6 months in, right?

>> Yeah, sure. >> I guess so. >> I don't know. I'm just being polite. Whatever. So the thing is I know she put. an ultimatum that you got to get your. together headed into this marriage. or yeah marriage go bye-bye 6 months in. having to show up on financial audit. would suggest has not gotten. together. Listen, you live in a low cost. of living region. This is where Gary is. It's where like the air stinks. >> The region you said the region. >> Exactly. So it's the rust belt. It's. falling.

It's Come on. You guys make so much for. the area. You killing it. Maybe like. three times the median. Why the are you. not getting your together when the. ultimatum is that she will leave and. you're not getting your together, guy? >> It was I'm going to stop spending money. on credit cards and we'll work on paying. it off. >> Yeah, we have. >> That was the ultimatum. >> Yeah, that was the agreement. >> You haven't? No one comes on the show. who has. >> We've stopped using credit cards other. than what she knows we use them for. We. use them for.

>> That's what she's okay with. You said. ultimatum. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, I did. I told her. >> She knows it's not going to go away. overnight. >> It's a process for sure. >> It's a process that with your income. situation, you could immediately take. control more than basically any other. people. Why is it a process that we just. have to wait and be extra comfortable. when you're making a killing? How long. have we been making a killing? >> Uh, a couple years. >> Then why can't we flick the switch? I. don't understand. Because even if you.

only spend 30% of your income on fun in. like the 50 30 20 for an example, and we. are putting a ton towards debt, not. even 20%, even 10% on fun, you guys are. living a better life than many many many. Americans. I don't understand why you. can't do the slightest. >> sacrifice. We have. >> We have What is this? I have Why do we. keep Okay, we've stopped spending. >> Yeah, we have stopped spending. >> We've stopped spending on credit cards. >> Okay, that but that's not what makes the. difference, That's not what. makes the difference. Unknown shopping, that was like 2,000 bucks. Miscellaneous.

That was 2,000 bucks. Going. out to the was almost $700. That's money. that could go towards debt. Doesn't. matter if it's on a credit card. If it. is going from our checking account and. not being applied to the credit card, it. is still bad. That doesn't matter. She. has no credit cards. She has no credit. cards. So when when you're saying this, we we're not putting We're not putting. We're not doing It's your credit cards. Like shut the up. She is She doesn't. have them. She doesn't HAVE THEM. IT'S. YOU. >> I gave her one. >> Congratulations. She doesn't have a. credit card though. It is still your.

credit cards. >> Yeah. >> So this we. >> Exactly. But if you spend thousands on. they don't get paid off. That's the point I'm trying to make. Stop spending on credit cards. Maybe. Let's see. Nope. You spend on this. credit card. So that's not even true. Like I'm not not even getting into the. statements yet. And this is literally. the most recent month that we have a. statement. So like, shut the up. You're. saying we're not spending on credit. cards or things that we don't know we're. already spending on credit cards. Just. because you know you're spending on it. doesn't mean it's valid to spend.

>> The change was before like I was paying. every bill on a credit card. >> Well, that's why you pay utilities on a. credit card. >> I paid so the way I viewed it is I paid. everything on a credit card. >> Stupid. >> And then whatever money I had coming in. just would all get applied to the credit. card. >> Okay. Didn't happen. That's why we're in. debt. >> No, it did happen. But then if I. >> if that did happen, we would be. struggling. If I spent more in that. month than I made, then I'd be in a. little bit more debt. And if I spent. less than I made, then I the debt would. go down. >> Then that process is completely broken. That makes no sense.

>> Yeah. Because I was spending more than I. was actually making. >> Okay. Was was Let's see how that was. was. So we know what comes in, what hits. the account on a monthly basis. What is. it like? Uh three $10,000. Very good. What was your outflow last month? Cuz it. was was of course. Then how can you say. was? Tell me was if you don't know what your. outflow was, guy. >> It was probably all of it. >> It was probably all of it. Great. What a. real That's a great number. It's the. best number I've ever heard in my life. What do you think went out. >> including debt payments? Probably.

10,000. >> Mhm. >> I I would say like $11,000. >> Okay. 13,625.15. Add it up to the penny. Was. You don't. know what was was. You've never heard of. the word was. What do you mean was? You. weren't was doing that. IT'S HAPPENING. NOW. THAT'S interest payments too, right? >> Yes. It's everything. It is outflow. >> Yeah. The interest is killing us. >> Yeah. The interest is killing you. You. not putting money towards the balance. that acrru interest is killing you cuz. you're putting it all towards.

which is killing you. You are killing. you. >> Yeah. I mean you've been in debt. >> Pass me killed us. >> Well, I mean you've been in debt since. you were 18. 18. Exactly. That's what I. was going to say. Thank you. >> And I paid it off and then I got in more. debt and you don't have more debt. >> But you said that you've never paid it. off. Like you said that when you. >> all the way paid it off. So, you've. never paid off all the debt? Like, when. you went to go buy the house, you said. that you paid off. >> some of the important stuff. >> just to be able to get the house. >> Probably 5 or 8,000. >> You got the house and you built it back.

up kind of immediately. >> Yeah. For stuff on the house. >> Yeah. Or just makes it valid. I'm. confused. >> It's got equity. It's a real thing. And. then I refinanced the house and paid it. off. most of it. >> And now we're in debt again. >> Yeah. [clears throat] It's never. changing behavior other than the last it. just kicks it down. >> She g she gave the whole like we aren't. going to get married if this keeps. going. And I. >> Why did you get married though? >> I committed to stop spending on credit. cards. And I think. >> you're still spending on credit cards.

It's just what you guys know you're. spending on credit cards. You're saying. the things that you don't know. It's. still bad. Just because you know what's. happening doesn't mean it's good. It's. making it worse. >> Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's. >> How much debt does the household have? Oh, >> including the house, >> everything. >> That's debt. >> Probably like 500,000. >> 391, but the mortgage itself 132. So, [gasps]. >> I mean, yeah, part of the mortgage. >> Uh-huh. There's a second mortgage cuz.

we're broken. But yes, that but that's. only 41. >> Certainly not. >> We want to put it back together and make. it one mortgage again. I want to put it. back together. >> Even still, does it even account for. half of the debt we are in? In fact, bad. debt alone, it's 110,000 plus an. additional debt that's not acrewing. interest, but is still horrendous. The. mortgage itself only accounts for what. is that 180,000? 170,000. >> A third of the debt is a mortgage. >> Uh-huh. That's really bad. So, why the.

did you get married to this instead of. putting your foot down? I know that foot. stomps. >> Um, >> well, I don't think she really knew. about the extent of it. >> You got married before knowing the. extent. I I knew the extent. I just. >> figured that we would figure it out when. we got married and and work on it. together and. >> you know. >> that doesn't really make sense though. Why would you want to commit to that in. a legal basis? >> Well, like wouldn't you want to see the. progress? Wouldn't you want to see the. working on it before we got all.

together? Cuz now if there's any, you. know, it changes state by state, but. with certain assets, sometimes you have. to settle debts and it gets it gets very. messy if a death were to happen. That's. super worrisome to me, but I. >> if a death were to happen. >> Yes, >> I still got life insurance to cover it. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I. >> doesn't change behavior still. Again, I. >> Well, I did see some behavior change. like we were getting Amazon packages. every single day, multiple times a day. He was buying lots of things all the. time with really no thought behind it.

>> Retro video game consoles. My life is like [music] a video game. >> Is it the behavior change that he showed. multiple times since 18 but is still in. debt at 34? Because he chang because. [laughter] he changes his behavior for a. few months and then falls back every. single time. >> I never changed my behavior before. >> I I wouldn't say I ever changed my. behavior. >> temporarily. You do you make a choice. You do something. >> No, I choose to pay it down so I can. spend more. >> Uhhuh. >> But now it's paying it down.

>> Still behave your change, but it's. temporary. But the mindset was always. for it to be a temporary change. He's. never gone in it with the mindset to. >> Why do you think that's different. >> permanently? Um because. >> I don't know that she has a reason to. believe that other than to trust me. Trust me, bro. >> Why do you trust her, bro? >> I mean, in every other aspect of our. relationship, I don't feel like he's. given me a reason to doubt him. I think. that we've had a lot of serious. conversations around why I am so anxious.

with the debt and the situation that. we're in. And we both want a family and I think. that he doesn't want to bring kids into. the into the situation that we're. currently in as much as I don't want to. bring kids into that situation. >> I'm still confused why I'm seeing what. I'm seeing. Then we're spending on the. credit cards. what you guys just the. rant you just did for the last minute. and a half was like, "Yay! Good words. That sounds positive." Yet B, we're. spending more than we make. Thousands on.

This was the most recent. month. Thousands still being spent on. credit cards when they're not going. down. What the was the point of that last. minute and a half when it literally. doesn't line up with reality? Do you. either just not know what reality is and. you don't know what he's doing and. you're just listening to his positive. words? >> No. >> Are you blind the world? because it is. not going anywhere. It's a fat stack of. debt. >> A lot of the spending, too, I think came. from um we did just take a honeymoon, >> so there was some spending from that.

>> So, that doesn't count. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, it'll. >> it'll it'll get paid eventually. >> See, sound like me. >> Is that good? >> No. >> No. >> But I mean, we wanted to take a trip. >> Hey, shut the up. You're the one who put. the ultimatum down. >> You're the one who put the ultimatum. down. But you're starting to sound like the. guy you had to put the ultimatum. against. So. >> you guys love saying so. Can you answer. the question I gave? >> So we had money set aside. We had money. set aside. >> Very good. So is she going to answer is.

she going to answer the question I gave. or you just going to keep rambling? >> No, I'm going to answer. >> It was a question to her. Do you not. know how words work? >> Okay, we have money set aside. >> Doesn't matter. My question was you had. to put the ultimatum down because of his. behavior, but now you're starting to. sound like him. I think. >> that should be dramatically worrying. You're falling down the same rabbit hole. he's fallen down for the last decade and. a half of his life, two decades almost, that has led him to borderline financial. collapse. Listen, the highest earners on.

the show end up often doing the worst. because you get access to more debt. You. guys are almost a half a million dollars. in debt with almost nothing to show for. it. I think because I wasn't previously. in debt that it's hard for me to change. my lifestyle. >> What's your lifestyle? >> I mean, I'm used to going out to eat and. going on trips and, you know, not not. really thinking about where the money. is. >> What? Then why are you putting the.

ultimate down? That's a lifestyle. That doesn't get you anywhere. >> Yeah, but I didn't I wasn't funding it. on credit cards. It was all just paid. from my bank account. So, I would set. the money aside. >> It still isn't necessarily good if. you're falling behind in retirement and. you have no assets to your name. Just. because there's no debt there doesn't. mean it's good. >> But it's hard to change that mindset. >> Yes. When you're obese, it's hard to. change the mindset around not being. obese. When you're going into debt, it's. hard to not change the mindset about not. doing what you did to get into debt.

It's hard to change the mindset for any. behavioral thing. You're jerking off. every day and you want to change it. It's hard to change the mindset. Welcome. to literally just making any behavioral. changes in this world. How do you think. that doesn't get you out of this. conversation because it's hard? Like I'm. I What? What do you want me to do with. that? I know it's hard. No one's saying. it's easy. >> We know we could get out faster if we. just like cut everything off cold. turkey. >> Okay. I'm not asking you to cut. everything off cold turkey. You spent. $4,000 last month on at a. minimum. It's almost half your income. That's not cold turkey. >> If we spent less than that, that's what.

I'm saying. >> What? If we spent less than that, >> that's not cold. >> It sounds like you're saying we need to. get rid of all that. >> 2,000 is not cold turkey. >> Yeah. Exactly. And that's what we are. trying to do. >> You're not trying to do. You haven't. done. You're saying the good words. You're h you're saying the good words. where you're like, I'm trying to I look. great, guys. Look, I look good for the. camera. No, you don't. Shut the up. >> We saved a bunch of money and we put it. aside from our wedding with the purpose. of spending it for our honeymoon. And. that's what a lot of that spending is. >> Then why is it on credit cards? >> Because. >> Exactly. Nothing you're saying makes. sense. I don't even know if I'm looking.

at something ON CREDIT CARDS. I DON'T. EVEN know if what I'm looking at is the. honeymoon. >> Uh, a lot of it probably is like the. flight. >> Wouldn't it make sense that it's on a. credit card? >> Then maybe I don't know what it is. >> Yeah, you're the guy that's confident. because you think you're loud. Meaning. loud is right when you have no idea what. the you're talking about. Just because. you're autistic and weird. Shut up. >> True. >> We know. Doesn't make right, dude. You. don't know what the is going on. You sit. here and you say the things that look. good on camera, but I have all the. evidence right here that shows you are.

and you're continuing the. behavior that is and you're sucking her. down with you. And it makes no sense. that she's blind to it out of love or. ignorance. I don't even know. I really. don't. It makes no sense that you are. okay with it yet you're the one that. gave the ultimatum. Make that make. sense. It still doesn't. It really. doesn't. >> I don't think I'm okay with it. It just. if I. >> What? Everything you just said. suggested. So, >> if I sit here and I cut everything out. and it's. >> going from $4,000 to $1,000 a month is.

still not cutting it out and it's. spending more fun money than most. Americans get to on a monthly basis. What privileged people are you? It's. disgusting. >> Yeah. I don't know what all of that was. and I don't know if it was all even like. me or if it was him because our accounts. are separate so I don't know. But uh if. I think about it all the time, it just. is really overwhelming and I kind of. >> wham cry. It's numbers. Put it into a.

budgeting app like dollar and like I. don't know. Yeah. Overwhelming. You. still have to do it. The the more you. don't do it, the worse it gets. So. that's where like my sympathy stops a. little because no matter what if you do. not look at it, it will become more. overwhelming forever. It's only getting. worse. despite what says who. just speaks even louder to try to seem. right. It's literally I have it right. here. It is getting worse. There is on. this credit card last month was $1,311. of spending plus an extra $145 of. interest. Like what are you talking.

about? Like it is getting worse. It is. getting worse. And you live up that. lifestyle just be guys people come to. Austin multiple times a week to film the. show from all over the country. We. rarely do local, but just to get here, you had to make it a wholeing. experience, renting a nice green. Corvette, getting expensive dinners, living it up. When you're coming to a. show to in Austin, Texas toing get your. together, yet you're living it up. like you want to live a life of wealth. while you're here. Is barbecue really.

living it up? >> Actually, yes, cuz Texas barbecue is. actually one of the most expensive meals. you can get. Absolutely it is. A pound. of brisket is brutal. It's like we. didn't buy a pound of brisket. Don't. worry. >> Well, anything else? Texas barbecue is. actually one of the more expensive. foods. So, yes, it actually. >> 60 bucks for dinner. I don't think. that's too bad. >> Dinner. Well, first of all, if you had. Texas barbecue at dinner, you weren't. even having Texas barbecue. So, never. mind. You don't even know what you're. talking about. >> Apparently not. >> No. Texas barbecue sals. Shut the up. You keep saying things that you have no. idea what you're saying as always. But. you're renting a nice car, living it up,

getting expensive dinners. Shut up. She. talks about wanting a Corvette one day. So, I thought it'd be a good opportunity. to let her see what. >> midife crisis car. That's weird. Okay. But even still, >> I mean, >> you just got back from Hawaii last week. >> Yeah. >> You guys are going crazy. Got back from. Hawaii. Was that the honeymoon? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Is that a honeymoon that you can. afford when we're going into the. situation? We're completely Maybe we. delay our dream honeymoon by a year or. two years. Will we get the figured. out that you put the ultimatum down. before we live life up? And then you.

travel to Austin, you live life up here. Most guests come here, they go they. don't they like fly in the night before, they immediately go to sleep in the. hotel, wake up, come to the office, film, and leave cuz they don't have. money. You guys are coming here because. you make high income and blowing it all, but you're in worse debt than most. people that come on this show. And. you're falling down this again. You are. the one who put the ultimatum down, but. you're just allowing you're just going. with this. >> You're an enabler or you don't give a I. can't tell which one it is. >> Well, I mean I like she said, she likes.

to travel and she likes to do these. things. And so like I feel like. >> I like to do a lot of Doesn't mean. I get to do it on every day. I What? >> That doesn't make sense. I If I did what. I liked, I would be eating fast food. every day and gaining back everything I. lost last year and getting even fatter. If I did everything I liked, I would be. I'd be destroyed. If I did. everything I liked, I'd probably have. AIDS at this point. Don't [laughter]. like that's just because we like it is.

not a valid excuse. I'm so confused. You're the only ones on this show in a. long time that just thinks it's okay to. have this because you like it. And it's. because you come from high income. earning situations and you guys are. privileged mother disgusting. You're. spoiled in high income situations. I. don't think we were just given high. income situations. >> But because you have it, you are beyond. privileged thinking you deserve to do. things because you like it. >> Sure. Because we can. >> No, you but you can't. That's the thing. is you can't. We're in a debt situation. of which she put her foot down and. you're willing to let her leave. No, I.

don't think she will cuz I think she's. actually getting sucked down the rabbit. hole with you. >> No, I mean I will I'd not spend another. dollar if that's what it took. But. again, I feel. >> I highly doubt it. Guy guy guy guy guy. guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy. guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy. guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy. guy guy guy guy guy guy with a time. share doubt. >> we didn't buy a time share we bought we. bought an intro package to experience. the time share. >> I wanted to buy. >> No. So we we at the honeymoon we had to. do another time share presentation. >> cuz like we said no the first time. So. they were like how about you come on. this trip for us for the low low price. of $1,600. You can have a week in. Hawaii. And we said, "Okay." And then we.

sat through another presentation where. they were like, "Isn't this so great? You should buy this." And it was a way. better price than they offered us the. >> first showed us a price. Was like, "Think or I'm sorry." Mike was sitting. there thinking about it. And I'm like, "Practice saying no because this is. absurd." He's like, >> "But it was way better than the offer. they gave us. >> I think you need to wake the up. You. have a time share husband now. He has a. >> We didn't buy a time share.". >> You wanted to. She. >> I thought about it. The internet told me. not to. Shut up for a second. You have a.

time share husband. You have a person. that you resent having separate accounts. with. You're resentful that you have so. little money left over after sending him. money for bills. and you think it's for paying off credit. cards. You have resent building up here. Things that you let our pre-production. staff know before coming in here. You. have resent. Now you're with him. It's a. fresh marriage honeymoon phase. You just. literally got back from your honeymoon. This resent's going to build this. ultimatum that you put down that now. you're just okay with letting it go.

because you're in love and we're here. and yep, we just got back from vacation. Everything's great. It was a nice little. beach time. This is going to build and. blow up. This is going to build and blow. up. And you're going to be like the. couples that come on that are 2 years, 3. years, 4 years, 5 years into marriage. that I deal with every day that are on. their way out the door. You're 6 months. in. You're resenting everything you told. our staff before. I'm going to be real. with you. Your debt is not the same as. everyone else's. You've got your own. unique mix of credit cards, maybe some. medical bills, personal loans, and. collections, whatever. Your interest.

rates are different. Your payments are. different. Your life is different. So, why do you need some one-sizefits-all. solution that treats you like a number? Some generic calculator that spits out. just pay more. As if you hadn't thought. of that already. That's what sets PDS. apart. They don't just look at your. balance and say, "Good luck." They work. to understand your specific scenario and. help provide alternative solutions to. becoming debtree. Whether you're. struggling with credit cards, personal. loans, collections, or medical bills, PDS Debt has customized options designed. specifically for you. Not your neighbor, not some average case study, you.

They've helped hundreds of thousands of. people get out of debt. And here's the. thing, there's no minimum credit score. required. They're not here to judge you. They're not here to shame you. They're. here to help you get out and help you. save more. Pay off your debt faster, and. start putting money back in your pocket. This is a company that is A+ rated by. the Better Business Bureau, boasts. thousands of fivestar reviews on Google, and holds a five-star rating on Trust. Pilot. That legitimately matters. Here's. the thing. If I needed help paying off. debt, this is exactly where I'd go for. help. You're just 30 seconds away from. being debtree with PDSD. Get your free. assessment and find the best option for.

you right now at pdsdebt.com/hammer. That is pds.com/hammer. pds.com/hammer. This portion of the video is sponsored. by Kickoff. If you're getting a tax. refund right now, pause before you blow. it on dumb stuff. Take a small piece of. it and actually fix your financial life. a little because a lot of you come on. this show with wrecked credit, mis. payments, maxed cards, or you just never. built it in the first place. And I've. been there. When I started taking things. seriously, I was sitting at under 600. and I had to build it the right way.

That's where Kickoff comes in. Kickoff. makes building credit simple. Plans. start at just $5 a month. No interest, no hidden fees, no credit check. So, here's how it works. You open an account. that diversifies your credit mix. Then. every on-time payment builds history. And since the payments are small, your. utilization improves fast. Users under. 600 saw an average increase of 86 points. with consistent on-time payments. And. you can even add rent reporting so the. payments you're already making help you. build credit. Sign up in just minutes. and set up autopay so you never miss.

anything. Start building credit with. Kickoff today and get your first month. for as little as $1. That is 80% off at. getkickoff.com/caleb. Must sign up via getkoff.com/caleb to. activate offer. Offer applies to new. kickoff customers first month only. Subject to approval. Offer subjects to. change. Average first month credit score. impact of plus 25 points. Vantage score. 3.0 between January 2024 and November. 2024 for kickoff credit account users. who started with a score below 600. Who. purchased at least one item with credit. account and who paid one on time in the. first month. Late payments may. negatively impact your credit score. Individual results may vary. Thanks.

again to Kickoff for sponsoring. Let's. get back to the episode. the longer that. the the debt exists and the more. interest that hits the account every. single month, it does. cause. some resentment for sure. >> Yes, you were venting about it to our. crew. Absolutely. That we have separate. accounts that you're sending him money. for the bills, but it's not even going. to pay off credit cards cuz everything. is being spent on credit cards anyway. It makes sense. >> Well, I just don't know where the money. goes.

>> And how is that acceptable? You who put. the ultimatum down, you're okay with not. knowing where the money goes. How can. you put an ultimatum down and not even. have any kind of insight into if if it's. being followed or not? >> I assume it goes. >> Oh, you assume. We put an ultimatum down. then we assume. >> It's an interesting strategy. >> It's just hard because of our like. accounts being separate and. >> that's why you advocate for them not. being separate and that's why she's. resentful that. I set up a Monarch account specifically. so she could see all the accounts and. what goes in and out every month. >> But Monarch doesn't work because you.

have to kind of. update. >> It doesn't work very well. >> The. >> Exactly. Monarch doesn't work very well. >> It just is hard because you have to sync. all of the accounts regularly. Otherwise, you can't see where that. money is going or you can't even see. what's in the accounts. >> Well, maybe you guys should use a. program that automatically syncs. multiple times a day instead of having. to do it manually. It's weird. Okay. Either way, besides that, dollar wise. plug by the way. The thing is, regardless of which, why not do a joint. account if that's what she wants? You. guys are married. What are we doing? >> So, I don't want a joint account. No.

No. So I. >> WHAT IS THIS? SHE WANTS BOTH. >> So no. So I don't want to join account. right now because of all of the payments. that come out, all of the debt payments. that it's hard to track. >> how much we have to spend. >> like anything else. >> Get into an account and put all the debt. payments out of that account. What the. is wrong with you? It's not very. difficult. What are we talking about. here? >> I think there's also fear that like the. money that I have. >> not afraid of. You're overwhelmed by. everything. Uh, so the I'm sorry I lost. my train of thought, but the the the.

money that's like left over in the. accounts after the payments come out um. from my account specifically, I do fear. that he would spend it or that it just. wouldn't be there. >> Okay. >> Um, >> if that is a fear you have, why the are. you with him? You not get how that. works? Did you not hear what you just. said? You're afraid if all of your money. goes into a joint account that he will. just spend it all and it will be gone. Why the are you with him? Why have we. signed the contract? If that that is not.

a reasonable fear to have with someone. we're choosing to marry. >> It is not. >> Well, I mean I think part of her thing. is too and she said this multiple times. So, well, no, I mean, we talked about. this before we got married and having a. joint account and she expressed concern. about being uncomfortable spending money. for things that she wants without like. getting my approval or whatever. beforehand. >> Good. That you think that feels like. almost hiding in a way. You shouldn't. have to feel like you're hiding in a.

relationship. Well, that makes no sense. And that fear, that anxiety that you. have that he would be judging you again, why would we be with that person? Why. are we commending our life to a person. that we can't even. like feel good about him seeing what. we're spending money on? That doesn't. make any sense. Are you guys even ready. for marriage? How long were you guys. dating before? >> Uh, we've been together for 4 years. >> Really? Four years and we're not even. understanding this level of trust yet. This is weird. I'm not saying everyone. has to get joint account, but for what.

you are asking for, the insights you are. asking for, for what we want to do in. terms of managing your accounts and. actually paying off debt, a joint. account is obviously what logically. makes sense to get the insights we. desire. Yet, you won't even do that. because you're afraid of him seeing the. money you're spending. Like I'm. >> hyperindependent a little bit like. >> hyper independence. That's a good thing. to be when we're getting married. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, we are married. >> Yeah, we are married. It's We're not. getting married. We are married. >> We figured that out. She was going into. it with hyper independence though. >> around financial money situations.

>> One of the leading causes for divorce in. this country. >> I feel like you've always kind of been. >> independent and things. >> I mean I am. >> there a lot of things like I offer help. and you're like no I got it. Like you. are a very independent person. >> I am a hyper independent person. >> Oh they're in love ladies and gentlemen. So cute. >> But he doesn't even feel like you guys. are in a bad spot and he told the. producers. >> I don't. objectively in a bad spot, but. I don't think that's what we're going to. be with. >> It's not like do or die like we're not. on the verge of bankruptcy or it could. be.

>> Yeah, when you're you not in do or die. until you're at do or die. You are. ramping up right next to it, though. You. could be there. >> I know it's pretty bad. >> You could be there with a moment of. budget cuts and whatever. Say we're in a. recession, all of a sudden tax revenue. goes down for the city or state or. whatever municipality pays you. Layoffs. Uh-oh. Weewoo. You know, happens. all the time. Same with you. All it. takes is what says everyone before they. got laid off. Listen, >> recessions. What does the government do. during a recession? They pump money into. the economy through infrastructure.

spending. >> Sure. Uh depending who who are you being. funded by? City, state, county, federal. >> of federal and state. >> Okay. You might be okay depending. You. might be okay depending. But listen, you. can't just say no layoffs have ever. happened. >> Like the federal government was the. highest laid off sector last year. >> We have a 401k. just take a hardship loan out. >> So that's that's we're not on the edge. of death, but that's something there's. equity in the house. Now, why not have. an emergency fund? Of course.

>> Well, just take a loan from our 401k. >> She she Well, we I would say we did have. a small. >> loan from your 401k. Loan from your 401k. after you get laid off immediately. becomes due anyway. >> A loan? Yeah. But you can take a. hardship. >> Okay. So, you're going to do that as. well. You want to do a hardship. withdrawal? >> Yeah. >> Me? I don't want to. if I had to. >> or have an emergency fund, which is what. you're preventing by doing this. >> Spent it on a down payment for a new. car. >> You guys are broken. What's the new car? You guys are so pathetic. High incomers, man. This makes no sense. He doesn't. feel like you guys are on the brink or.

No, no, it's not that. He thinks you you. guys aren't even that bad financially. You objectively every dollar you spend. is bad. And like that makes me like. >> Yeah. If it wasn't for the interest, he. would not. >> If all the How would that make you feel. your partner for life? I mean, if there. was an interest, I would feel less. I would feel like it was less insane. If. there was. >> perfect for each other. You're. >> No, go live the high income life and go. through multiple bankruptcies. You guys. are perfect. Why are we even having this. conversation? >> I don't want So, we're.

about to do IVF. and I don't. >> You're bringing a kid into this. Just. like your marriage and honeymoon. You're. bringing a kid before you even deal with. any of this It makes no sense. I. don't want to do IVF until the credit. card stuff is. >> more under. >> more under control or. >> okay well it doesn't work if we're. paying on spending on it but and. spending thousands on instead. of towards the credit cards but either. way and his opinion on that. >> I think he agrees. >> I yeah I mean it'd be nice to pay off. some of the debt before we potentially.

acrew more debt. >> but I mean we're also not getting any. younger so I feel like if we want kids. sooner than later. >> Okay so you guys are on the same page. about being okay being currently. and not being afraid of any layoff cuz. you work for the government so you think. everything's perfect even though federal. government was the highest cycle last. year. >> I 100% think that I could be laid off. and. >> uh. >> might be more recession resistant, not. recession proof. No one is. >> Yeah, I more worry about something.

happening like physically. >> She thinks I'm going to fall off the. roof or something. >> Well, you said in the green room that. you're unfirable. Uh. >> that's impossible. That's not true. You. said that. That was your literal quote. got eyes and ears. >> It would have to be really really bad. for me to lose my job. >> Yes. And we haven't We're due for a good. correction. We haven't had that in a. while. >> I don't think that a recession would get. him fired. I think it would have to be. something that he would have done. >> No one is recession. >> I think Sure. So, in that mindset, then.

we should just all act like we're going. to get laid off tomorrow. >> Yes. And the best way to do that is by. having a fully funed emergency fund. That's the only fully funded. How many. months? >> Six months of living. >> Six months. 6 months. Okay. >> He does not feel comfortable having that. amount of money sitting in a bank. account. >> Okay. You guys don't feel comfortable. with anything. I don't give a That. is just what you have to do. That is. basic financial responsibility. >> Well, not when we're in debt. With this. amount of debt, it doesn't make sense to. have that much money. >> Exactly. That's additionally my point. So instead of spending money on. >> that's why we don't have an emergency.

fund. >> No. Instead of spending money on. you pay off your high interest. debt immediately and then you get a. fully funded emergency fund. I don't. know. See how you're disconnected on. that? >> It's all high interest debt. Like the credit cards are. >> yes very high silly fat girl. The thing. that you have to do the thing you have. to do is pay off the high interest debt. instead of spending $4,000 last month on. getting barbecue in a Corvette. yesterday and just paying off the debt. Okay. How many more insults do I have to.

say until you at least understand what. I'm saying? >> Autism fat woman. I don't know you. I. don't. It doesn't matter. >> Stop spending money. >> That's what I'm saying. Yeah, we hear. that. >> NO, YOU DON'T. BECAUSE immediately when. I say you should have a fully funded. emergency fund because you might get. laid off, who knows? Just to prepare for. the worst cuz you don't a medical thing. could happen. >> That's not a right now thing. Right now. we need to PAY OFF THE DEBT. >> THAT'S WHAT I AM SAYING. You can't. >> and I agree with you. >> You agree with me yet you don't do the. things that are required. >> Not yet. >> That's the point. So like I don't. understand. Why do people come on the.

show? You you can answer me this because. you're the ones that are doing it right. now. Why do people come on the show, give the right answers, but don't. actually do any of the right things that. are aligned with the answers that. they're giving? What are you just trying. to look good for the camera? What are. you doing? Like, what what are you. doing? It makes no sense. >> I mean, these are the conversations. we've been having for the last like. year. >> You guys tell yourselves that you're. going to do the right thing, but you. never do it. >> That's how we come. We'll deal with it. after the wedding. We'll deal with it. after the honeymoon. >> And where does that lead us? Well, >> to where we are right here. >> Exactly. And that's It'll get worse and. worse. It's only gotten worse and worse. >> It'll get better. >> No. Please tell me how the current.

strategy that you guys have been. implementing over the past four years is. going to lead to it getting better. When. has it shown getting better? I haven't. seen. >> We haven't seen it yet. >> Well, he hasn't he. >> sounds like that doesn't work. >> He's not putting everything on credit. cards anymore. >> Yeah. >> So, everything. [laughter]. I don't put the bills ON CREDIT CARDS. ANYMORE. AH still spending all the money. that hey I'm talking my show when you're. spending all the money that you have. regardless of if it's on the credit card. or not instead of putting it towards the. credit card and paying off your debt it. is still bad do I need to say that again.

that's weird that I have to why are we. so delusional on this I do not care if. it's not on the credit card slight. improvement you're still spending money. on the credit card regardless so it's. like you're jerking yourself off for. nothing but even still you're still not. putting the money towards the credit. card you're still spending it on few. So I do not understand this cope that. you guys have. Like what the I don't. understand it. How can you guys This is. This is when people make no progress in.

life ever. >> It feels like we're not making PROGRESS. >> BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT BECAUSE INTEREST. NO, that's not No, that's not even why. actually. It's because you guys say the. right words. It's because you know the. right answer. It's because you know the. right behavior. So you say the good. thing. You say the good thing. Like if. your therapist brings up a problem. you're dealing with, you say the right. answer that you know you should do, but. then you don't do anything. >> We feel like we are though. We feel like. we have spend less. >> I'm glad you feel like it. >> Do you feel. >> Make a budget, dude. And you know,

>> we have We just don't necessarily follow. it. >> What's the point then? >> Agree. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. I mean, >> you agree. Yeah. You do nothing. We make. a budget. She's. >> so good at giving the right answer yet. does nothing that follows it. Like, what. do you want from me? Do you want a high. five? Cuz you're still not doing it. I. can't do it, dude. I'm not going to be. that guy. I'M NOT GOING TO BE THAT GUY. THAT you've had your entire life giving. you a high five for the right answer. with the wrong behavior. >> I want to and I know I've done it. before. I want to refinance the house.

again. >> Okay. Third time, fourth time. Yeah. >> But roll roll it all back into one and. then pay off use that money take cash. out and use that money to pay off the. high interest debt. >> But why? You've done that so many times. since 18. You've built it up. >> again. 20 25 30% interest the credit. cards are acrewing interest at a rate. that's. >> agreed I am not mathematically opposed. but you have done that multiple times. says hey again do HEY PIECE OF HEY. PIECE OF. >> DO I have to remind you that I am. talking I'm the one who interrupts here.

not you autismo listen to me for a. moment you've repeated that process over. and over again. >> and that's what she's worried about that. it'll repeat again. >> well that is a valid concern she's. worried about everything That's the. first one that's actually worthy. >> I agree and I understand why she's. concerned. >> But so. >> I think that's our path forward here. >> No, it's not. >> It's the fastest path forward and it. saves us the most money. >> But it's not the fastest when you're. back here again. >> When you're back here again. No, it's. not. >> We'll have to be here back.

>> Actually, your entire history says that. >> Says that we probably will be. Not that. we have to be. >> Okay. You want to be probably? >> No. >> I mean, everything's a probably. You're. talking about there might be a. recession. There might be. >> Might be. Not probably. Well, there probably will be a. recession. >> Yeah. >> Okay. But we can't say might be is not. probably. Might happen is not will. happen. Probably is like it's pretty. damn guaranteed. >> I don't think it's. >> not 100%. Well, when all of your past. behavior shows that it has happened, >> but now I'm married and I'm trying to.

start a family. So, I mean, things. change. >> You want to be a father? >> I do. >> Good luck to that kid. >> He'll be fine. They'll be fine. We'll see him in the system. >> because we don't have money. >> No, >> because we have bad spending habits. >> His personality is the most insane thing. I've ever witnessed. I couldn't imagine. being raised by this. >> Thanks, Dad. >> This is It's crazy. It's crazy. I don't. know. Listen, again, >> we're going to be great parents. We know. that. >> Every time I say listen and I start to.

say something, then he just says. something about the previous. conversation. I was trying to move us. forward. >> Yes, you're we all know. We've learned. this. You do not have to prove it every. moment to this conversation. Oh my. How have you made it this far in. life? How have people around you not. just slit your throat or their own. throats to get out of it? >> Some have probably wanted to. >> Yes, I do now. And it's only been 40. minutes. Trust me, I look at that clock. every 30 seconds. I am okay with things that are tools.

that pay off the debt quicker. I've. always said in this show that I am okay. with debt consolidations. I am okay with. personal loans. I am okay with credit. card transfers. I am okay with. refinancing. I am okay with bankruptcy. I am okay with these things. But not if. you don't change your behavior. We even. launched our a personal loan program on. Caleb.com for people to get better rates. on their personal loans or consolidate. their debt. But we even say on that page. and now that no one should do it unless.

they haven't proven. proven that they have changed their. behavior first because it can be a great. tool. All of them can be. I've said this. for years but not if you don't change. your behavior because what happens he. ends up in the same spot that he has. done for the last decade and a half. And. you being pulled along with that because. you can't stand the up or you just go. with it. I It's It's crazy. It's. absolutely crazy. What do you guys think. your financial score is? 0 to 10. Two. A. two. >> He's going to say one. >> I don't know what it is. I haven't gone. through your finances yet.

>> Oh. >> You ever watch the show, Superfan? It. seems like it. >> Weirdo, dude. I don't know, man. See how. excited he was with the word too? >> Yeah, too. I think I'm right. It's not cuz I think. it's good. >> Audio jungle. >> I don't like him. I don't like him at all. >> She likes me. That's all that matters. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> most of the time. >> Yeah, most days. >> Or desperate to settle down and her. clock's ticking. Listen, get your Hammer. financial score at calebhammer.com.

You can figure it out for yourself. Are. you one? Are you two? Are you a 10? I. don't know. Take check it. It's free. Just takes a few minutes and you can see. where you stand. And if you don't want. to be like them and you want something. that automatically. checks on a daily basis instead of. having to do those manual things, make. sure you download Dollarise. It is the. budgeting app of choice for tens of. thousands of active uh active monthly. users for a reason because they're. actually changing their lives. They're. getting the insights they need, the. automatic account connections. Listen, when you sign up for the annual version, you save a lot of money and then you get.

my personal 30-day meal plan signed by. me, mailed directly to you, and the. digital version of the cookbook, so you. can cook every single recipe as well. So, there's the meal plan. Congratulations. Now you'll be skinny. and financially healthy. Well done, guys. You figured it out. dollar.com or. download it or just go to the link in. the description below. [sighs]. How much is IVF gonna cost by the way? >> Um, could be anywhere between 30,000 and. up. >> Why do you both yell? >> We.

come from big families, so you got to. talk loud. >> A lot of people do know. Why do you both. scream every word? >> My family have to be. >> so annoying to be around. Luckily, we're. probably tweaking it on the back end so. the audience doesn't actually realize. what I'm going through. But you guys are. so annoying. Just talk. No. No. In fact, I'm around every day. >> Actually, he's shaking his head. No, I'm. here right now. I'm in front of you. >> You're fairly loud. >> I'm yelling to even just get anything.

across. It feels like you guys just to. say anything. The moment I walked into. this door, you screamed to me. Hey. I. was like, dude, >> hey, how's it going? Yeah. >> Yeah. It's obnoxious. Oh my gosh. You guys are. >> Could be the caffeine. Who knows? >> No, I just think your guys'. personalities are actually like the. worst I've witnessed in this show. >> I'm being mean, but you guys seems. >> Oh my goodness. You guys immediately you. had to start screaming at me. You guys I we're we're doing audio. editing so you can't actually [laughter]. hear what's happening, but like it's so.

loud. They just scream every word. It. makes no sense. You guys are giving me a. headache. I don't get headaches on this. show. You guys are giving me a headache. This sucks. Okay, what's have something. for that. >> Ibuprofen. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, we have ibuprofen here. It blows his mind. Okay. The platinum. card. What's going on here? >> Uh, that's. >> Wow. Usually you have an answer that's. like a thousand dB for everything. >> What's going on here? I don't know. It's. a credit card. Opened it for the.

benefits. >> Wow, great. You were made for. podcasting. >> Yeah, opened it for the benefits. >> And what's going on here? or like on the. actual card what you guys are doing, you. know, maybe a little story, a little. insight. >> We paid it off and we've been using it. for a couple things here and there. >> What? It's not paid off. It's I There. was not paid off there. Where's the. payoff. >> before that balance? It was paid off and. then we were talking about. >> Oh. Oh, like previously it had been paid. off and then. >> it's been paid off at some point. >> Yeah.

>> Hey guys, they paid it off at some. point. IT'S NOT. SO WHY DO I CARE? WHAT? It's a small balance. >> It's like you saying you used to be. skinny. Why do I CARE YOU'RE NOT NOW? LIKE IT DOESN'T MATTER. It's like you. saying you used to be soft and. reasonable to be around. It doesn't. matter. [laughter]. >> It doesn't matter. You're not now. So. why do I give a if this used to be paid. off? >> Every card used to be paid off. That's. is how credit cards start, by the way. >> Okay. Good response. >> It's got great benefits. We use them.

>> Okay. Those great benefits. Are they. paying for that $145 in interest that. accured last month? >> Maybe. >> Oh, maybe. That's a wonderful. >> digital entertainment credit. We used. the travel credits last month. $700 of annual fees plus hundreds of. dollars of interest. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I did not know that that credit. card had fees. I found. >> the fee could be okay if you're using. it, but without charging interest. With. the. >> interest being charged, you're. definitely not making breaking even. >> I mean, and the annual fee goes up. I.

was going to close it. >> 900. Yeah. Yeah, I was going to close. it, but I saw that they just my annual. fee just reuped in I think January and. it did. It was the old 6.95, so I. figured we'd keep it for another year. >> Why have you not made him shave yet? >> I don't want him to What? >> Oh, my head. >> I don't want. >> I keep saying I'm going to What is wrong. with you? Why do you have the wrong. answer and perspective on everything in. this world? >> I don't know about a bald guy. >> He is a bald guy. >> Yeah, I mean he will be soon. >> Yeah, that's rough. He is a bald guy. He.

will look better. He has probably nice. and red, too. >> He has an okay beard. Like, he can. shave. >> Oh, it can be an it can be a real good. beard. >> He will look young. He will shave 5. years off his age if he shaves his head. >> Do I look that old? >> Yes. When you're balding here? Yes. It. ages you by a decade. >> Absolutely. >> What if you have a weird shaped head? >> I'll do whatever she says. >> You could have a weird shaped head or. something. >> And then I don't have to pay to go get. my bannual haircut. >> Though we have something, right? >> For what? Yeah. We have something to.

>> shave it or to make it. >> What are you laughing about? >> To save it? Oh, man. >> Right now? >> Yeah. >> Not today. >> I'm trying to save you. >> Not today, You come on a podcast and you're. not even willing to shave your head, coward. >> for the plot. We're going to shave my. head for the plot. >> It'll grow back. >> No, it won't. [laughter]. >> It will not. >> She's afraid what's left won't come. back. >> What if it does come back and it's. worse? >> If we go get a buzz, can we buzz? That's up to her. >> Oh my gosh. [laughter].

>> Try to not be afraid of something for. the first time in your life. >> Do you want to be bald? >> He is. [laughter] He is. Like, do you. not understand that he is? >> Well, he has some hair. >> It's for the plot, baby. >> Come on, baby. >> I mean, [laughter]. >> yeah, sure. You want to shave your hair? >> You want to run to CVS real quick and. get a you know, you know, one of the. like pube shaver things? >> I don't know what those are called. Not. razor, but just up there. There's one in. my There's one in the trunk. >> Cool. >> You have You still have one in the.

trunk? >> Yeah, >> in the back there. >> If I want to go buy one, that's fine. >> Okay, we'll see you Brandon soon. It's. >> going to be horrible. >> Enjoy that horrendous haircut while you. got it. I'm just honestly trying to make. your life better. If I can't make it. better in this way, I can make it better. that way. >> It's going to be so weird. >> The dogs won't recognize. >> I get a free haircut today. >> Do I have to tip? >> Listen up. If you want your savings to. actually earn something, I got something. for you. The average savings accounts. right now are paying around.39%.

APY. So, if you've got 5,000 hours. saved, you're earning like 20 bucks a. year. And it feels like an insult. because that's about nine times lower. than what you could be earning. With. Chime's high yield savings account, you. can earn 3.75% APY. That same $5,000, that's about $188 a year. $168 more for. letting it sit in a better spot. That is. a new pair of headphones. That's a. weekend getaway. That is real money, not. a joke. I tell people all the time, your. emergency fund should not just be. sitting there doing nothing. Mine's in a.

high yield savings account because I. want it growing, but still accessible. No lockups, no hoops, no nonsense. It. takes just a few minutes to sign up. There's no monthly fees and no minimum. balance, which means you get to keep. your money. Revolutionary concept, isn't. it? And they make saving stupid easy. with their automation features. You can. set goals like an emergency fund or a. vacation, round up purchases. automatically, or send part of your. paycheck straight into savings. You can. get $200 in bonus cash right now. Go to. that link or click the link in the.

description below or scan the QR code on. screen to start earning 3.75% APY. Don't. put this off. Sign up today and actually. make your money work for you. Let's get. back to the show. You suck with money, so you download a budgeting app. You. start with the classic one, WAB, but. everyone just deletes it because it's. way too complicated to use. So, you go. to every dollar. That's Dave Ramsey, the. personal finance guy, right? Well, they're going to force you to use it his. way. That's [music] not very personal. finances. Rocket Money, they got a lot. of commercials, but they're owned by.

Rocket Mortgage. Guess what [music] they. want to sell you in the end? Then. there's the new guy on the block, Monarch. Hundreds of millions of dollars. of private equity raising so far. But. private equity doesn't have the best. track record when it comes to private. data. That's why I like DollarWise. Built by these people just like you, for. people just like you. No private equity, no gimmicks, [music]. just the best budgeting app there is. Download it now. Start the free trial. Wise.com. Link in the description below. Okay. So, Hulu $30 to Hulu.

>> Yeah, but they refund 25. >> Oh, he's going to have a loud response. to everything. That was just Hulu. That. was just Hulu. Barely even started. anything. >> Yeah, I'm going to respond to. everything. >> Yeah, please don't. I'd like to get. through this. Um, Hilton. Yeah, makes sense. >> That was the time share. >> I was going to assume that. Yeah, I. think we were able to connect the dots. ourselves without the autistic. shouting things at the top of his lungs. Good death, man. Fine. Hotels and.

resorts, Southwest Airlines, Southwest. Airlines. THAT WAS HAWAII. [screaming]. IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE ABOUT TO SAY? THAT. WAS AING TIME SHARE. IS THAT HOW you. were about to respond? >> Yeah. >> Lacrosse country. Gosh, I'm I'm probably. being so grumpy, but you guys have no. idea what it's like to be across from. them. Like, you I don't think I've. enjoyed guests less than you two in a. very long time. Sorry to hurt your. feelings, but I also don't care because. I'm the one suffering. Oh my gosh. Okay, so yeah, we're spending thousands of.

dollars. Yes, it was for the trip. No, that doesn't justify it. 22.49% interest. rate of death. Hundreds of dollars being. charged in fees. >> Everything could be worse. I do not know. how that it's an excuse for it to be. bad. It's like you're okay with that. What the is wrong with you? It's so stupid. City. Oh, >> I love this card. >> Clearly, I don't know if I've had a credit card. that has a balance this high before. This is impressive. >> It is impressive.

>> This is actually insane. The interest. alone is charging at $66542. on a monthly basis. That's insane. That's why we're drowning. >> I've never had the No, that's not why. you're drowning, dumbass. It's because. you've allowed the balance to go to. $37,8754, dumb ass. It's not the interest. >> I have $30,000 in credit card debt. >> That's why we're scared because we see. that number. >> What? Scared of everything. She's scared. of standing up. What? Because of that? >> Yeah. That's what is like the eye. opening part. How much money we're.

throwing away in interest every month. >> No, it's because you put the balance. there. It's not even just the interest. the interest rate. You were the one who. chose to spend the money there. >> Sure. >> It's been maxed out since you opened it. When did you open it? >> Uh, I think this one's from 2013, 2014, somewhere in there. More than 10. years. >> It's been maxed out for 10 years. >> You've allowed like almost 1,000 hours. of. >> No, it it's had credit limit increases. as my. >> You just immediately. >> changed. Yeah. A lot of times I'd say.

it's 50/50. Like sometimes they just do. it and they're like, "We re-evaluated. your credit line, your credit." Usually. after I pay off a significant chunk, they're like, "Here, have more credit.". >> And then you immediately spend more. >> I'm like I'm like the optimal. >> You're okay with this? >> No. >> No. >> Okay. Well, you were still spending on. it. Yes. It was less than you put. towards it, but with the interest. sitting there, it basically made no. difference. It takes 32 years to pay. off. You'll definitely not be alive. >> No, definitely not. >> That's not good. >> Well, I have health problems. >> What's your health problems? Um, well, I.

have autoimmune diseases. So, I have. psoriasis and seroriatic arthritis. I. have PCOS. >> Does that make you die? >> Uh, no. But it deteriorates all my. bones. Um, I have PCOS. Um, where. >> That's also not good. >> Uh, I'll get really bad periods. I've. had to have three blood transfusions. because I lose so much blood in my. periods. >> Oh, you're trying to have the kids. You. can just rip it out. >> Well, I'd like to have more than one, but that's why I said kids unless she. tries to die the first Yeah, probably at. that point I I would um and then I have.

all sorts of like weird reactions. I. have. >> What's your life expectancy minus the. obesity? >> Oh, I don't I mean my family doesn't. live very long usually. >> Well, is it the obesity? >> No, I mean it's a lot of things. It's. high blood pressure and. >> Well, that's usually the obesity. >> Yeah, diabetes isn't there. >> It's usually the obesity, do Americans. not realize what obesity leads to? That's usually. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That happens with morbid obesity.

>> Yeah. There's a lot of cancer like blood. cancer and bone cancer and thyroid. cancer in my family. So, probably not. >> Are you sure you want to reproduce then? Cuz I I I question that for myself all. the time. >> I think about that. But I know that. sounds rude, but I I legitimately think. about it for myself all the time. Like. I'm someone with a panic disorder and. there's a couple mental health things. like in in my family. I'm not going to. go into those people, but um and I'm. like Okay. It kind of runs in my. DNA. Is it even fair for me to pass it. on? Maybe I should just adopt or. something like Right. I'm not advocating. for eugenics, but.

>> Yeah. I mean, we've thought about that. And with IVF, you can test the embryos. for like genetic. >> So, so we would pay to do that. Um, I. mean, that doesn't show everything, but. it. >> it does help. >> kind of make sure that you're not. passing along. >> Lindsay says, "You only want a son. Do. you get to make that choice?". >> No, we one of each. We want. >> uh in a perfect world, we'd have one of. each. >> Okay. >> And then a [clears throat] half of. another one. >> Yeah, we we'd like three. Well, he'd.

like two. >> I'd like two. She'd like three. So, we. joke that we agree two and a half. >> Great joke. >> I try. >> Okay. So, yeah, you got health issues. So, what's your life expectancy? >> I don't know. 60s7s. Hopefully. Hopefully. Longer. >> Please keep losing weight cuz that'll. definitely extend it. Um okay. So, yeah, this takes 32 years to pay off. So, why. do we even care, right? to say about my. student. >> What happens? Student loans is different. though. Student loans you can actually. get on low payment plans and it's. usually lower interest and there's nicer. programs if you're struggling.

>> Sure. >> Financially, sure. Okay. I mean, yes. >> No, I agree. >> Okay. So, the city card, his favorite. card. What is your What do you think? What even is your insight on this? Like, what is your opinion here? >> Um, >> cuz you're the one with the ultimatum. MINIMUM PAYMENT. OH, SORRY. One second. $1,442. Kill me now. Okay, go ahead. >> I don't really know what's on this card. This is just your mishmash card, right? It's just for using for everything. >> Yeah, it's his everyday card. So, I. think I think it's absurd like that he.

would put the electric bill on this card. and literally anything and everything. that he wanted to do would just get. swiped on this card. And I didn't know. that fully uh until I don't know maybe. >> I think you just started kind of seeing. oh you're putting that on that card. again. You're putting this on that card. >> Yeah. I would start asking questions and. being like what is what is this? Why are. you using that? Like what's going on. here? But I don't think I fully realized. the the full situation until about a. year.

>> What's he doing on it now? >> Um I don't know. I think. >> I'm good. I thought your ultimatum is he. couldn't spend on. >> Well, I think that you took every. >> I took almost everything off, but there. are still some like autopays that come. off of it that I just haven't Some of. them need to be cancelled. >> I thought that you took all the autopays. off the credit cards. I thought we had. that conversation. >> There are two two newspaper. subscriptions on there that I need to. cancel. >> Yep. So, here's his autopay. Uh, Sub. Sandwich, doc, Taco Bell, Labs, Inc.,

eBay, eBay, Sub Sandwich. >> Great auto pays. Yeah, those were I. think those were things that the credit. card was already saved in and I just. [screaming] didn't. >> Oh, that's interesting. The goalpost has. been pushed as you're breaking her. ultimatum move which she said you you're. never going to leave. Come on. You've. settled here. You obviously have. settled. You're locking you're just you. want to have kids. You're afraid of the. time. It's just like come on, you're not. going to leave. You put down an. ultimatum that you're not going to. >> would leave. >> No. Okay. Well, here he is. He He broke. it from October to three months after. October. He was spending on.

Well, if he stopped like paying the. house or if the bills like the like. electric got turned off or anything like. that, if we were missing payments, then. it would be. >> What happened to the spending on credit. cards earlier? That was in your. ultimatum. >> Well, no. I mean, he I didn't know that. he still had. >> Yes. He just broke his ultimatum. Look. at his smug ass face. He knows you're. never going to leave. He knows you're. never going to leave. He can do whatever. though. >> We talked about this last week. I told. you I needed to call and get those. canled. >> Yeah, but I didn't know it was on the. credit card. >> Yeah. Like you said that you had to get. it canceled, but I didn't know it was on.

the credit card. I thought that. >> he treats you like a doormat. I want to. be clear. >> He just does. >> Yeah. >> You say this is the ultimatum. I will do. this if that happens. He does that. You. do nothing. Doormat. >> We have conversations and we regroup. here. And. >> Okay. You still didn't know this. happened cuz you told me you don't know. what happened. No, I didn't know. He. didn't even know what happened. What do. you mean we regroup here? You don't know. what regrouping is. You've never. regrouped in your life. >> Well, I did ask to sit down and have. another conversation about.

>> you asked to sit. We know you like to. sit, but besides that, you guys after. the trip. >> Okay. Well, wait. Why? Why? Why is it. always defer, defer, defer? Everything. was defer you guys' life. >> Because he doesn't need more spending. >> Well, he just got a raise, so it was. like when you get that paycheck, I want. to. >> It's always when the next thing is. It's. never. >> because things are constantly changing. >> Spending on a sub sandwich and going to. Taco Bell and two eBay purchases, that. can just be looked at now. You don't. need to see it after a trip. You don't. need to see that after a raise. You. don't need to see it after an. engagement, after a marriage, after um.

what vows. You don't need to see it. after after after. That's why you will. never make progress. And he will never. give a about your ultimatum cuz. it's always after this, after that, after the trip to Austin, after this, after that, after we land, after we. after he shaves, after he grows his hair. back, after we have kids, after IVF, after doctor's appointment, it's always. after. You will never make progress. You. have he has never made progress cuz it's. always after. So why the would he. change? You're going along with it. He.

treats you like a doormat. >> Are any of those eBays like car parts or. anything that. >> are the eBays like reimbured? >> Could be. Oh, very good. >> I I couldn't tell you exactly what they. are. But again, a lot of those things. are just because this credit card was. linked to PayPal. >> And I didn't realize that when I made. the purchases. because PayPal is also attached to my. bank account. >> Okay. The interest is going to be $8,000. on this by year's end, if not more. So, and that's just with making minimums, which is what he's doing. That is more.

than your entire net paycheck. >> Yeah. >> It's actually almost double your entire. net net paycheck of a single month. So, two months of your income, two months. that you're working is just to pay the. interest on his card that he's spending. on Taco Bell. >> Yeah. >> Ultimatum. Never heard of it. >> And I I tell him that, you know, if. something were to happen, if he were to. lose his job, I can't float us. I I do. not make the money that he makes. There. is nothing I could do to support us. We.

would immediately lose everything. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> So, he should change it. But he's not. because he doesn't care and you will. stick around for it forever and it will. always be after the next thing. I agree. with what you just said. Everyone out. there agrees with what you just said. But he doesn't give a. and nothing will change. So what's the. point of having that opinion? Yeah,

touch his leg. That's going to that's. going to make things better. Like what? I'm confused. He is objectively harming. you. And you know, Garrett, your. instinct is to touch it. Like what? No. Here, embrace me, baby. Like, what are. we doing? Nothing's h like it's bad. It's actually bad. It might not It's. might not be emotionally abusive. He. might be not be doing it intentionally, but he doesn't care because he doesn't. care because he's never cared. And he. doesn't need to change because your. ultimatum is. >> I do care. >> Uh, >> just because there are some things that.

I accidentally put on the card. >> Your actions do not suggest care. There were things I missed. >> Yeah, it was a lot of things. >> I mean, th those would have come out of. my bank account. I wasn't not going to. buy those things and I thought they were. coming out of my bank account. >> Those shouldn't come out of your bank. account. Are you going to allow that to. come out of Is it okay if it comes out. of his bank account? spending. >> You're okay with that instead of it go. >> I still have to eat. >> Uh-huh. Yeah, Taco Bell's the only food. How much should I spend? >> Okay. You spent that entire month on. >> What? What was that Taco Bell expense? >> On The Taco Bell.

>> like a $6 meal. >> Okay. $81. But that's not the point. isn't just one shut the up. You. don't understand the point. You I think. you actually might be stupid even though. you tried to think you're you're smart. The entire point is that you spent $100. alone on on one card that you. are not paying off that requires minimum. monthly payments that are beyond. unaffordable. >> Yeah. So it was only 100. >> He doesn't care. See, he just proved my. point. Doormat meet. Yeah. Oh, they're See you guys in a.

couple years and we'll be having the. conversation that I have with every. other couple where we're on brink of. divorce. Honeymoon phase. That's all. this is. Well, this would have been the highest credit. card balance I've ever seen if it wasn't. for the previous one. But the fact that. it's an Amazon card. What are we doing? What are we doing? >> It's a Chase card. Well, >> yes. Made for Amazon. Yes.

>> To get like 6% cash back. >> I think it's five, but yes. >> Is that the wedding credit card? >> Yeah. So, this one. >> I know this one. >> Well, I don't know. So, >> yeah. Most of the stuff on this one is. all the wedding. I think before we. started paying for the wedding things, this card typically had a balance of. between a,000 and $2,000. >> What did you guys pay for all the. wedding yourself? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Why? Why no parents chip in then? Why. pay more than you obviously could afford. if it's all on a credit card today that. is still acrewing interest at almost. $700 a month if you're only making the.

minimum payment towards which by the way. is $988. Insane. You owe $30,14410. By the way, credit cards so far were. already in the practically $80,000 mark. >> Yeah, that's insane. We were only on the. third credit card. >> We didn't. >> $80,000 of interest acrewing credit. cards. Neither of our families, at least. the families that are actively in our. lives, have the means to contribute to. our wedding. But. >> did you No, you put it on a credit card.

That's not mean. >> That's Yeah, but we had talked that's what we had. talked about. Like I know it was kind of. a joke at the time, but like I told her, she was always like, "How are we going. to pay for the wedding?" And I said, "We'll put it on credit cards and figure. it out later.". >> Wow. Another banger of a joke. You're. just incredible. >> And that's what we did. >> You're anxious about credit cards. >> Yeah. But you're okay with $30,000 going. out on a credit card that is never going. to be paid off. That is just interesting. forever for 32 years for the wedding. >> Well, no. Honestly, >> you had to have your little girly pop. wedding.

>> Honestly, I wanted to alope, but. >> we both No, we both have families that. >> our families were very against us not. having a wedding um that family could. come to. And most of the wedding was. family. We didn't have a ton of like. It's like 110 people. >> Yeah. >> And again, we both have big families. >> Most of it was family. Um, >> but yeah, my this makes no sense. My. parents going to help cope cope for you. spending so much money. Of course, it is.

Amazon purchases. I said, it was just. the first. >> and probably some Costco cuz they only. take Visa. >> Also, two months of your income will be. the interest that occurs on this card. this year so far. So with the all the. cards combined with that first card, second card, third card, probably five. months of your income so far that you. make literally all goes to just. interest. Five months of your work goes. to just interest because you chose to. say I do. >> I mean, that's why I think I'm a little. bit resentful is just because I know I.

know how much of the money that I give. him every month is just going to. straight interest. It doesn't even make. a dent in any of the credit cards. >> Girl, you're a part of it. You're. enabling it. You just let it happen. You. don't stand up for yourself. I'm sorry. to a certain point. He is the problem. here objectively, but you do have a role. to play. You're the equal half of this. relationship. I'm not just going to let. you just like say, "Wam, w I'm not okay. with it." And then do nothing. >> Was I supposed to not get married? And. >> yes. Yes. What? This is one of the. leading causes for divorce in this.

country. This is trust issues. This is. resent. You just said the word resent. after a honeymoon. Should I not get. married? Yes. Until we deal with this. It doesn't necessarily feel like a. honeymoon or like we just got married. We've been together and living together. for almost. >> matter. You just went to Hawaii. Shut. up, dumbass. You. >> Yes, we deal with it before the legal. commitment and signing contracts. >> But the legal commitment also gives me. protections on the house and stuff. If. anything, >> lots of good things as well, but you're. committing to him for life. >> Yeah. So, but like without those legal.

protections, like I don't. >> I don't get any of that. >> So, good luck. the benefits that. >> Good luck. Wish you wish you the best. Discover it. What's going on? >> Uh, this was a balance transfer card. I. opened it just to do a a balance. transfer. >> Almost like it has never worked in your. favor ever. Any of the tools. >> Yeah, correct. But. >> it it got some of the debt down to 0%. So, >> thank you. You guys are actually, by the. way, starting to talk quieter or I'm. starting to get used to it. >> I'm probably getting used to it. >> If I wouldn't kill myself being next to.

you, or honestly, even if I would, feel. free to come on the show with. kale.com/apply. I'd be happy to have you. at this table here in Austin, Texas. We'll cover the travel and everything. $7,191. >> I think it's still at 0%. I don't know. when that runs out. >> Okay. Interest is acrewing. It is not at. 0%. >> Like, shut the up. You're broken. 29. years to pay off even with this. >> That's making the minimum payment. >> Yes. Dumb ass. You made the minimum.

payment on the last few cards. Dumb ass. This one's a little bit more. This one. you didn't spend on which is the only. positive to this. >> But Huh. >> I don't think I've ever swiped this one. >> Oh, cuz it's just a consolidation that. is acrewing interest now. So the. interest alone on this card on a I mean. that's going to be another 1,500 bucks. monthly basis. You're still probably. about that 5 months of work. Resent I. would say. So. what are the conversations like around. the money other than we'll do it after. this? What else? What are the feelings?

What are the emotions? What are the. conversations that happen? What are the. points? What are the disagreements? Tell. me. I need to know. >> I think our disagreement is just the. like philosophy around money. >> The first disagreement that I think we. had to overcome and that again I feel. like we have is. not putting everything on a card, not. putting all the bills on a card. And. we've stopped doing that. I've stopped. doing that. >> Still spending. >> I'm still spending on it. Sure. >> Are you anti- debt? Do you not like. debt? >> I like good debt. And I.

>> What's good debt? >> I mean, a house. >> We're going to have a mortgage. A. mortgage. >> Yeah. And. >> And what? >> Student loans, I would say, are probably. a good debt. >> So, you're against other debts besides. those? >> I don't like credit cards at all. >> Okay. >> Um, >> but you're against debts that aren't. mortgage and student loans. >> I mean, most people have car payments, so I feel like. >> Are those good debts? >> I mean, they're not good debts, but. sometimes you're okay with those debt. >> You're pro those debts. >> I'm pro having a safe way to travel. >> Safe way to travel. You need to get a.

$40,000 car loan to safely travel. If. you got a $20,000 one, you would die. >> No, I. >> Yeah, cuz you just did that 3 weeks ago. >> Yeah. My. >> So, you're anti You're anxious about. debt, but 41,000. Don't give. >> to get 0% [clears throat] on it forever. for 72 months. >> Yeah. The life of the the loan. >> Life of the loan. 0% the entire time. Even still, 70 $40,000 debt. That is now. a new minimum payment that is included. in the so far,000,000. 216153.

>> My car was about to explode. >> Don't care. That doesn't equal $40,000. This is the only car you can get. >> No. >> No. >> But it's safe and it has. >> Okay. Yes. Cars that were made 5 years. ago were aggressively dangerous. We were. all dying to bumper warranty. Everyone. was dying. >> Everyone was dying 5 years ago. Yep. >> Some people. >> some people are dying now. >> That's true. in the car that she just. got. >> And I mean, we're talking about starting. a family, so we want to make sure. >> new design improperly. Yes. >> And I'll keep it until this car dies. I. kept my last car until it.

>> unlikely. >> is dying. You know, like the engine's. about to explode in my car. >> Great. New minimum payment that you can. barely afford the minimum payments that. you have. I do not understand your guys'. logic. You are bad. You are anti- debt. Even with the 0%, you just added 41,000. to the collection for a car you wanted. that your cope safety in about. >> Well, it's cope. >> I I pushed back on the car for four. years. I did not get a car. And. >> he I'm not saying you can't get a car. You got a $41,000 hour loan. >> Yeah. >> And I do like the 0%. I'm not against.

that. But I am against the price of the. car and your financial situation adding. a minimum monthly payment, which is 570. a month to the stack that we already. struggle with. Okay. Okay. So, what do I see here? This is. another insane one. Oh, wait. No, no, this is retirement. Okay. >> This is my 401k. >> Is there a loan on it? >> Uh, two. >> They're small. One was for when. >> taking out every debt you can, man. >> One one is from when I bought my house.

to use for the down payment. And then. the other one was. >> So, your down payment was money you. didn't have. Great. >> Uh, some of it. I used it to take out a. little extra. Um, and then the other. loan was to pay off the negative equity. in one of the cars I had a couple years. ago. >> Yeah, he's had three brand new cars. since we've been together. >> So, I have your account balance, but I'm. trying to get your loan balance on this. And don't forget, I want you to be on. the next episode of Financial Audit. So, go to calebhammer.com/apply.

or click that link in the description. below. You'll have a great time and I'm. going to roast the out of you. Starbucks is and a waste of. money. And you already know that by. making your coffee at home and invest in. the rest. So now you need to do that. with your energy drink as well. MAKE. GAMER SUBS AT HOME FOR just 40 cents a. serving. And honestly, it literally. tastes better. And we proved this. accidentally via a blind taste test in. our Hammer Elite show, Fat and Fatter. >> The number one ranked energy drink is.

game. >> Literally, the cherry flavor is insane. Listen, you can also get free samples to. see if you like it or 10% off your order. at gamersubs.gg. or click that link in the description. below. Type in code Caleb. What do you. What do you owe against the 75? That's. >> I think it's like 5,000. One of them is. like between 13 and 15 and the other. one's like 3,000. >> Also, let me see your Amazon's while. we're here with that previous. purchasing. Pull up your Amazon.

>> My account? >> Yeah. >> Like what? My orders? >> Yes. No, I'm going to buy stuff myself. Yes, your orders, dude. [snorts]. >> I don't know how to screen record. >> Oh, you don't need to. >> Just this. >> Oh, >> he just wants to see that. >> Okay. See, this makes no sense. Even. just the Monster energy drink. I'm glad. you're not stopping in and getting some. But. >> I put these into the purse, dude. >> This is one of the best flavors. Cherry. Good. With my discount code of 10% off.

Use the link in the description below. Gamersubs.gg. GG code Caleb. It is 10%. off and it is 40 cents a serving to make. your energy drinks at home. And I swear. it tastes actually definitely better. than this. I will say that cuz you got a. pretty generic mid one. But it is so. much better. Every guest loves them. Everyone in the audience loves them. Get. your free samples right now. Figure out. what flavor you like with code Caleb. And then once you know what flavor you. like, get your tub and it's 40 cents a. serving to make your own energy drinks. at home instead of going inside and. getting some Same like coffee. >> To be fair, I usually buy whatever.

numpad. You didn't have a numpad. Well, there you Oh, it's 40 cents a serving. Okay. Yeah, I'm good with cat food. Mo. again. I mean, that's probably just. going to be cheaper. It really is at. this point cuz there's a hydration drink. version as well if you don't want. energy. Um, issue my cords. You needed a. numpad. >> Uh, yeah. >> Do I have a numpad? Okay. >> My lap my laptop doesn't have a number. >> Some of this stuff is reimburseable, too. >> Lots of just cords. And then, yeah, lots. of car parts. >> He's obsessed with cords. >> Swim trunks. Uh, Hawaii. You needed.

double swim trunks. Yeah, >> double air. >> We went swimming every day. >> Every time I've gone somewhere where I. swim every day, I still use the same. trunks. I don't know. It's a vacation. You just hang them up. >> I think I only did use one to be fair. I. don't think I've worn the second. >> Exactly. There you go. Stop touching. him. It's weird. I'm across from you. No. Honeymoon phase. My goodness. Air. tags. Trust me, you're not going to lose. her. Very easy to see. >> It's for the animals. >> Yeah, we air tagged our animals. >> Yeah, I was making a joke. C4 energy. drink again. So much better than C4.

especially. My goodness. Oh, just so. much for computers and cars and. like that. My goodness. Okay. Have. you ever heard of do not disturb? What. is wrong with you? No, it's not even on. here, dude. You're so weird. >> Oh, no. I don't do do not disturb. >> Well, you disturb me whenever. >> Okay. Even though we said put on do not. disturb. Let me see yours. >> Did you put on do. >> Android? I do not know. >> No. >> Hey, just Yeah. Lots of That. baby shower so much. and just. lash extension and sunglasses.

and travel pillow. Yeah, I see where. that was coming from. Eye, a single eye. patch. >> Uh, my dad had eye surgery and well, he. Yeah. >> Buckles, blood glucose monitor. Makes. sense. Uh, Farmhouse. black curtain. I don't know. It's just. like, guys, we're just spending so much. money. We're just endlessly swiping. doing it. I don't know. It's just. endless, man. It just really is. Okay. Outstanding principal. Is this your. second loan? Yeah, that's the second. mortgage. >> Okay, so second mortgage. So this was to.

pay off your debts. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Most of them. Some of them. >> And there they went all back up. >> Uh yeah, I think I paid off pretty much. everything other than $10,000 on the. city card. >> $41,53547. Again, I'm good with the personal loans. and stuff at kaleammer.com, but not if. you have not changed your behavior. He. is prime example. He's done it multiple. times through the credit card transfers. The second mortgage, now he wants to do.

a third mortgage. >> So, some of that I saved I saved 10,000. of that kind of as like a an little. emergency fund. >> Where did that go? >> Uh, it was used for the down payment for. the RV. >> Oh, why the do we have an RV? >> It's for the dogs. >> So, we can travel with the dogs. >> Yeah. So, we could take him to go visit. his mom. >> in Montana. They loved it. Except. >> Oh, one time. >> Yeah. We've been other places. We've gone other places. >> Guys, I hate you.

>> The dogs don't want to. >> I hate you. >> The dogs don't want to ride in the. backseat of the car for a week. >> I don't care what they want. I do not. care what they want. Mine have and. they're fine. >> Toby might jump out the window again. >> Keep the window closed. >> You can't do that. >> Not with the dogs. >> Yeah, you can. I have two large dogs. I. do. >> They'll sit there and shut. >> You guys are not the only ones. Then put. paw covers on them. >> They're babies. >> No, you guys are just children. And you. can't even raise properly trained dogs. Minimum monthly payment $394.96,

>> dude. It's at almost 10%. 10% interest. >> Yeah. >> Second mortgage at a 10% interest. >> That's why I said like. >> refinancing again now. Yeah. My my first. mortgage is at like a 2.875, I think. But with this one close to 10, like. yeah, the interest rates aren't great. now, but it probably the average of the. two together probably puts me at right. about what the mortgage rates aren't.

>> stupid. >> This is the RV. >> also at 10%. We have a 10% RV. >> You were okay with this. >> I wanted the RV. >> Bro, you guys are made perfect for each. other. You guys are so You guys are so. You guys are so You guys are so. >> It's a 15-year loan. >> It's basically a mortgage. Yeah. >> The plan is to once we're out of debt to. pay it off more aggressively. Um that. you wouldn't be out of debt then. >> Well, out of credit are you a You. are the stupidest person I've ever met. that. >> I have the high interest credit card.

debt. >> Dude, I I cannot stand you. We're not. pay off this high interest debt. >> It has equity in it. >> Yeah. >> When's the last time you guys have. checked? >> Uh month couple months ago. >> Well, I check again then. moves quick with things with motors. and wheels. Thankfully, >> most of the depreciation comes off in. the first couple years. It's crazy how. much a brand new RV loses. >> Okay. Your model typically Yeah. You. might have about 10,000 in it. Yeah. So, I would sell it. >> I don't want to sell it. >> I do not care what you want. Why do I. ever care what you want? Why would I.

care? >> It also takes a lot of time to maintain. >> This is a minimum monthly payment and. maintenance and and things that. you cannot afford in any way whatsoever. Do not care what you want. Do not care. what you want. Do not care what you. want. Do not care what you want. Do not. care what you want. Do not care what you. want. Do I have to say it again? >> The dogs only have a couple more years. So. >> Oh, do not get what you want. >> It's only 200. [laughter]. >> And that's the mindset that has thus I'm. so almost done with this conversation. and ready to end it. I honestly really. pretty damn am. 2004.

$4853. I just It doesn't make sense, guys. At a. 10% interest, we can wipe off $21,000. now, plus get more to throw in other. debt. We can wipe off the platinum card. That's another $216. That means an extra. $500 a month that we can throw towards. our high interest debt, >> but you can't replace it. >> Like, >> guys, you can get an RV. You guys make. good money. You can get an RV when you. make it. >> You can get an RV when.

>> You guys make so much money. Pay off the. debt. Have a temporary sacrifice. Have a. temporary sacrifice and you can get a. better RV in a matter of years. Do you. guys not understand that? You guys do. not understand what a temporary. sacrifice is. You have never sacrificed. I I don't understand. >> Are you stressed? I. >> hate this. >> You hate everything. You won't even. sacrifice. You're stressed about the. debt, but you won't sacrifice to pay off. the debt. >> Cuz you're stressed about both. This. would clear $500 a month off your.

minimum monthly ba bills. >> Thanks. You ever done this before? >> No, dude. >> So, this is just stupid. You need to. sell it. What's green sky? Uh, this is. 13%. >> This is a Home Depot project loan. >> for what? >> Home improvement projects. >> Why don't you give him a strip down the. middle to finish the episode with? >> Hog Rider. >> Hog Rider. And then we'll finish it in. the post show. >> You're so handsome. >> Thanks. >> Yeah. Yeah, we can. >> I can't see what I look like, so it's.

all good. >> Well, honestly, that didn't change. anything. >> That's what I always tell the hair. stylist when I go. I say, "I don't care. I can't see it.". >> You look handsome. >> You're going to start wearing hats. >> Yeah. So I don't burn. >> No, he's going to be good. He's good. So. I don't mind. >> We'll give him We'll give him. complimentary sunscreen. >> Thanks. >> I have sunscreen in the bag. >> The sun is more brutal down here. >> Well, we're leaving today. So, >> okay. So, >> what are we talking about? Oh, yeah. Home Depot project loan. >> We'll finish the rest in the pot. >> Do I get to look crazy for the rest of. the episode? This is awesome. >> Horrible. >> Honestly, it's almost better.

>> Probably is. >> I really think so because it at least. like you were you have like normal bald. instead of like horrible comb over, you. know? >> Your bangs are like. >> Yeah, [laughter] my bangs. Trust me, it's not like neat, but. >> Oh, I'm sure. >> you actually are starting to look. younger. >> He's right. I'm sorry. >> It's true. It's kind of crazy. >> For the record, >> we'll see what everyone at work says. tomorrow. >> I don't think you look old, but you. honestly like up here like that part. [snorts] of the. >> I believe it. >> Looks fire. >> I'm sure it does. >> You have a big forehead. >> He's going to look good in the post.

show. I actually think he's going to. look good. I'm not going to lie. This is. an upgrade. >> I keep I' I've literally probably since. the day we met, I've been telling her at. some point one day I'm going to shave my. head. >> Today's the day. >> There we go. I think we need to give you. a chain. Like I I think you might have. swagger. >> So what's Green Sky? >> Uh Home Depot project. >> That's right. So what happened with. that? >> Uh this was like 3 months after we got. together. >> Yeah, we. >> we decided to Well, >> still. >> I bought a inflatable hot tub. >> I'm going to die. >> Um and I was just going to build a. little like platform out of wood for. like a 100 bucks in the backyard, but we.

decided instead to expand our deck. >> and make our existing deck like an. L-shape. >> Did you? And we built a period finished. it. >> Yeah. >> And then we built we also bought um a. bunch of pa bricks. So we did a patio. adjacent to it. >> A fire pit. We redid the walkway. >> Oh my goodness. But you still owe on. that with a 13% interest. >> We repainted the house with that. Resided the garage and you still owe on. it at 13% interest. >> $6,32.71.

owed $1954. >> Half the original balance. >> Ah. Is this your special little new car? >> Uh no. This is my car. >> This is his third car that he bought. Well, he didn't buy. He financed. >> So, this is leased. >> Yeah. >> Correct. >> So, so when we met, I had a 2019 Honda. >> Dude, you have a lease of $790.91. a month. >> That's because. >> That's insane. >> Cuz I put nothing down because I had to. pay off the negative. >> Insane. The minimum payments you guys. are stacking is absolutely crazy. How. How much longer is your lease?

>> Uh, till October. And I'm then what? >> Double my lease mileage. Then what? >> Uh, and I mean it's kind of beat up from. the dogs. So. >> then what? Are you buying it? >> I don't know. I'm going to see what the. dealer has to offer me. >> I might see if they'll. >> cuz they're offering like crazy. discounts on EV leases. >> So I'm going to see if they'll do me a. deal to do Yeah. So even without the. federal rebates. >> Well, they're probably trying to clear. them. >> EV6s and the EV9s. It's a Kia. So if.

they can do me one of those for. >> It's another brutal. Okay. This is the. mortgage, the original mortgage. Here's. Indiana prices for you guys. Guys, >> if you want to live in like the worst. place in the country, >> it's not and it's not like that anymore. >> This is after I cashed out, refinanced. this one. >> Still pretty good compared to everywhere. else. >> So, my original mortgage that was at. like 5% I think my monthly payment was. >> $132,733.83. at guess under 3% interest with the. minimum monthly payment on his mortgage. Now he has a second one, but uh original.

$94983. WOW. >> THAT'S WITH TAXES and insurance. >> Ladies and gentlemen, Indiana. If you. want to live near Gary where you can't. even breathe, that is the place to go. That's what you get. Listen, housing is. really cheap there. Now, Indiana can be. nice in like the southern half of the. state, but it's just like. >> Yeah. Rolling Hills, nature. >> I mean, I lived in Evansville for a. couple years. I would. And I lived in. Bloomington for a couple years. I.

>> You know, you know that it can actually. be halfway decent. Okay. >> So can around Gary. >> But I like where we live. >> That's hilarious. No, you don't. >> We love where we live. I don't think. we'll ever We'd never want to leave. >> Impossible. >> I've been to plenty of other cities. around the country. And I maybe San. Diego, but. >> yeah, maybe San Diego, but we can't. afford. >> We can't afford San Diego. >> By far. Not even comparable what kind of. upgrade that is, but everywhere else is. also an upgrade. Even if smaller. >> then northwest Indiana. Yeah, we love it. being We're 40 minutes away from. downtown Chicago. We're on the lake.

>> Michigan's right there. >> It's disgusting. >> Chicago is the greatest city in the. world. Just going to throw that out. there. >> It is a nice city. I will say it's a. nice city, but it's. >> We love it. >> Not the nicest city in the world. >> No city we've been to can compare. >> Dude, okay. Maybe you guys haven't. traveled as much as you say you do. So, uh, the house is worth about 244. >> I don't think that that accounts for any. of the remodeling that he did. I think. it's. >> Yeah, that also doesn't account for much. these days anyway. >> Yeah, I would. >> So I probably like an extra 5,000 in.

worth like it's. >> dude houses the internal design and. everything does not matter as much in. property. >> It's it's not about design. >> I think that the. >> remodeling doesn't based off of the. >> Okay. Yeah. Why don't you just keep. going even though we just did? No. Like. I'm I'll add an extra. >> This estimate is always ne it's never. right. >> It's never right. But usually it's. actually considered more aggressive. >> Overvaluing houses. Oh, good. He. disagrees. Thrilling. >> I mean, we we keep up on what houses in. our neighborhood. >> Student loans is $54. $54,000. $54,700.

>> Uh, I think that's mine. >> Great. A Vantage. >> Yeah, >> that's not me. >> Yeah, that's mine. >> $54,70061. What's your minimum monthly payment. here? >> Uh, it's not There isn't one currently. Um, >> why? >> Well, it's in deferment, but I also. Well, I was also taking like classes. So, >> when. >> uh I mean I took a class I just ended a. couple weeks ago. >> Why? >> Uh. >> to make money. >> Yeah, >> I'll get you a course career.

certification and whatever you want. People in the audience use it to get six. figure jobs all the time. But why? Why. are you taking a class? A random ass. class. >> Well, I would like to work from home. when we have kids. >> What class are you taking? What's your. strategy here? So it's the class I took. was medical terminology um to work. towards a certification for um oncology. data specialists. >> Okay, we'll keep it up then I guess. I. mean that would be good if you can. convert that. That would be nice. >> Okay. So citizens is you.

>> This is my private student loans. >> Very good. You do. >> used to be with Sally May. >> You do everything the wrong way. >> I used to be with Sally May with like a. 15% interest rate. >> Uh-huh. What's the interest rate now? >> I don't know like four or five I think. on this. >> Okay. You owe $18,711. Minimum monthly payment 187.17. [sighs]. >> These are my governmentbacked student. loans. >> Alnet just for you. Good. Minimum fee. payment $12121.

$24,952.36. >> There's a lot of them. >> Uh, okay. This must be medical. >> Yeah. Who owes medical? >> I do. >> Okay. Why? >> Um, this is probably a hospitalization. I was hospitalized. >> What's your minimum monthly payment on. this? Have you negotiated a monthly? >> I think it's like $148 a month. And I. >> $5,183.48. a month. >> Yeah. I pay it off of my HSA though. I.

max out my HSA and I use that to pay for. as much of the medical stuff as I can. >> Okay. Okay. That's it with the debt. That was brutal. 1,000 bucks in this. checking account. Started with 68. Who's. this, Chase? >> Me. >> Starting with 68? It's insane. What are. you doing? You make so much money. That's pathetic. What is wrong with you? You're broken. Here we go. This should. all be going to debt. Amazon. Cafe Fina. Amazon. Apple bill. Amazon. Going inside. getting some Amazon going. inside getting some Jimmy. John's going inside. Get some.

Amazon. Costco's good. Going inside. getting some I know for a fact. that's $249 from Aldi. Starbucks. Taco Bell. Amazon. Amazon. Amazon going inside against the. Soft pretzels. Autozone. That's fine. Uh, Val Valparezo. Valzo. >> Yeah, Valo. What is it? >> City. >> Okay. Okay. So, probably just like. >> uh or something. >> That might be for the university. >> Okay. Apple. Taco.

Bell. Books a million. Tusan uh uh. Tsunami Express. You. know, uh, well, okay. I would be okay. with the car wash up there during the. winter and stuff. Maintenance on the. car. Uh, Dairy Queen, Amazon, Harbor. Freight, Apple bill, Amazon, Amazon, Amazon, Taco Bell, and. then Spotify as well. This is so stupid. It's all spending that could go towards. that. You're an irresponsible, selfish. motherucker that doesn't give a and. treats her like a doormat. You're. pathetic and she doesn't care cuz she's.

pathetic. You guys are a pathetic couple. and you're never going to make it. anywhere ever. $450 Chase account. $150. starting who? >> Me. >> Oh, good. More patheticness. >> Well, isn't that what you pay all the. bills out of? >> No. Oh, that's the MX. Oh, okay. >> Oh, yes. There's nothing. >> Okay. So, IU Credit Union. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, at least you have balances. You started with 36. You ended with 36. Oh, actually nothing much happened here. But I mean, there's. >> that might be the savings account. >> Yes. You started with $31 and ended with.

$1,500. You're right. >> Okay. >> Peacock. Stupid. >> Yeah, we don't know. I paid. that for that for my money. >> Round the clock. Amazon. Venom money. Domino's. Domino's. McDonald's. I. thought we were losing weight. What are. we doing here? >> The Venmo. >> IvyTech. Chester Feed and. Gardening. Parkhurst. Amazon. Meer Photo Print. DRA. DraftKings. [laughter]. >> That's great. And you can't afford. game. What the dude? This is insane. You.

can't afford life and you're going to. NY's liquor and. Nick's liquor. Nick's liquor. That's a. That's a. >> You get NY's liquor. It's like Say that. wrong. Say it too many times and you're. going to get something different. Kendall Ven out. Microsoft El Salto. Roses Pizza. Amazon. How have you lost. the weight? This makes no sense. >> The Venos. >> You're paying for New York Times there. Dude, why are you going back. to the Venmos from like two pages ago? Shut up. I'm talking about you going to. McDonald's and Domino's. I don't give a. about your Venmo. Did I ask about.

the Venmo? Why do I care about the. Venmo? Shut up ABOUT THE VENMO. NO ONE. CARES ABOUT THE VENMO. WHY ARE YOU. GETTING DOMINOES EVERY SECOND OF YOUR. LIFE losing weight? >> Only sometimes. >> Okay. She goes out to eat every day. Tomato bar. Pizza. Amazon. Peach. cobbler. Canva. Smarter. Prot. protractoring. >> Oh, the proctor for your exam. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. For my test. >> Okay. Parkers and Kindle. And then that's medical. Canva. Thought we already had that.

Ventmo again. Oh, you're going to freak. out about it. Dunkin Donuts. BaskinRobins. Canva again. You paid a. lot for Canva. Texas Roadhouse. Yeah, you really do. You pay the three Canvas. so far. Dollar Tree. Stupid. So much spending. Losing weight. How? I. don't get it. >> Yeah. So, you got 3,000 savings. You got. two. >> Well, so this is the account that I pay. all the bills out of now. >> Oh, so it's not even savings, grand. >> Yeah. >> Kill me. It's It's what's helped me. because that was always a concern of. like if I did everything on my. >> Fidelity account is that you.

>> uh probably. >> doing nothing Everest Everwise. >> That's our joint account. >> Okay. Nothing happens in there. Maybe it. should. Royal Kona and 1,500 in health. equity. Okay. Retirement with the loans and. stuff. I mean, you guys are certainly. behind for retirement, especially you. contributing thousand in there. >> I get pension. >> Okay. Well, pensions are mostly unfunded. and are not delivering 100% across the. country. So, I agree if you even work. >> Well, it's not something you can. disagree with. >> Well, if if if I stay there for 10.

years, but I probably won't. >> Oh, so it doesn't even matter. You need. to be contributing. >> Okay. >> How old is that calculator? >> Couple years. Why? Why? Why look. at you? Of course you're obsessed with. my calculator. >> Looks like the one my grandpa uses to do. his taxes. >> Probably better with his finances than. you. >> Probably. I've been using the same. graphing calculator since like sixth. grade. >> Oh, you want me to jerk you off? >> No, preferably not. >> Why are you flirting with me? >> Do you want to play footsie?

>> Take that as a no. >> No I don't want to play footsy. Shut the f up. Minimum monthly payments. outside of the primary mortgage is. [gasps]. $4,48859. You guys are. mortgage. $9,4983. primary. >> Wait, $9,000? >> 900. Sorry. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> 9,000 mortgage.

>> We talked about that. We could probably. qualify for those. >> Yeah, you can qualify for anything. Doesn't mean you can afford it, dumbass. That's why how you've lived your entire. life. Yeah, you agree. Yeah, you. changed nothing. What about your your. utilities? Gas, electric, internet, all. that combined. >> How much? >> Yes. >> Uh, well, the electric and gas varies. wildly based on the season. Average. >> 400. >> plus internet as well. >> Uh, internet's another 90. >> 490. Phone bill. >> Uh, 300. >> Okay. Well, I would definitely do. Uh,

>> well, that's because I have a bunch of. family on it and it has a bunch of home. >> Get them off. You can't afford. >> Well, they pay me back for it. >> Well, I would still do Helium. 15 bucks. a line. T-Mobile's get up there, which I know it. is because I'm from there. [sighs]. Gas, vroom, vroom, drive, drive. Both of. you combined a month. >> I about 80 for me. I don't know what you. are. >> Yeah, especially now with your hybrid. Uh, I probably spend between 4 and 600 a. month. >> Okay. 500. So, 580. Car insurance. >> Uh, 300.

>> for both. >> Uh, well, that's for. >> It should be the car insurance, >> three cars, the RV, and another car in. the family. Well, good news. We're. selling a car and all the other cars. So, >> four cars and an RV. >> Okay. Necessary food 600. Easy peasy. Follow the meal plan. Follow the digital. cookbook. Get all this stuff. Use dollar. wise. Blah blah blah. You know. Okay. TP. fun. Anything else you guys need to. survive? LG250. This is tampons. This is. prescription. It's whatever. It's. whatever you need. Usually, you can fit. it in there. If you can't, you expand, you take from somewhere else, whatever. Medical, healthcare. Anything else on a.

monthly basis? Co-pays, things that I. need to put in, prescriptions, all that. good stuff. I mean, can we budget like a $100 just. in case my HSA doesn't. >> $100 cover? >> Okay. >> Yeah. Most everything medical. >> prescriptions we'll put. 40 bucks. So, how many dogs? >> Two dogs and two cats. >> Okay. So, pet insurance 200 bucks. >> How much for pet food? Yes. >> I don't think that some of our animals. qualify. >> Okay. Well, what? Two do. Two don't.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Pet insurance 100 bucks a month. How much for pet food a month and you. know litter and all that stuff? >> Probably 150. >> Anything else that needs to be in this. budget before I tell you guys to. >> like what I pay for the cat food and. stuff? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> You didn't tell me I had hair in my. shoulder. >> You have hair everywhere. >> Anything else that needs to be in your. budget? >> I don't. >> Not a haircut, obviously. >> Well, even with all this, you guys have. wiggle room cuz you make a lot of money. You guys just refuse to sacrifice.

anything cuz you're pathetic. But the. spending obviously you don't. have any wiggle room. But I really can't. give much. I can't give fund spending. here because this is some of the most. insane debt ever that needs to be paid. off. Okay, let's get that entire debt. total. You have an extra $2,198. uh 91, sorry. So, your debt $391,48656. minus let's get rid of that main. mortgage of 132733.

83 minus. the medical of 5,183. because the minimum monthly payment. sales is paid off and saved to student. loans federals. uh 24,000. 952.36. and minus yours of $54,700.61. Very good. So, bad debt.

173,916.76. Insane. >> That doesn't even include the car that. I'm going to have to probably buy out in. October. >> Certainly doesn't. And yet, it still. takes 80 months to pay off. You guys are. so So, 6 and 1/2 years. You guys need to follow this. You need. to be aggressive on your budget. Yeah, you need to figure that out. But here's. the reality. You're selling the RV. tomorrow. You're selling the other car. that's s You said you have three cars. Why can't you just. >> Well, >> one of them's not worth anything. >> Old cars tin can. >> No, it's about to explode. That's why I.

>> Okay, put it in for scraps. Get the car. insurance off of it. Put it in for. scraps. Take that, take the RV money. plus the 10,000. That wipes off $500. from your payment. Look what that. immediately does, guys. First of all, that obviously lowers the debt. So you. have 173,916. minus about $30,000 of bad debt. Then. take that and divide it by that new 500, which unlocks you to $2,691. a month. That takes our debt down from. that 6 and 12 years to 4 and 1/2 years.

just by selling the RV. Are you going to do it? >> It'll have to be a discussion. >> Huh? >> It'll have to be a discussion. >> This is the discussion. Will you do it? >> I don't know. >> Okay, then off then. I don't care and. I'm done with you cuz saving two years. just by selling an RV. If you're not. willing to do that, you're pathetic and. you're not worth worth my time. You're. not worth another second of mying time. Hammer financial score pathetic. Caleb.com spending in a budget. overspent, zero out of 10. Debt, it's as. bad as you can get without collections,

1 out of 10. Emergency fund, uh, there's. a little bit in savings, it was about a. two out of 10. Retirement, uh, definitely behind borrowing against it, one out of 10. Real estate. Yeah, we got. that. But the second loan, high high. mortgage on it. So, I'll give it a five. out of 10 with that. Amber financial. score. Oh, he's going to jerk himself. off like crazy. >> 2.1. >> No. Two out of 10. >> Two out of 10. What was the actual. number? >> Two out of 10. You guys are pathetic if. you don't sell this RV. I'm not even. kidding. Not even joking. Not even. playing that up. You guys are pathetic. if you do not sell this RV. That's not a.

joke. Join us in the post show. It's. going to be a good one. Uh we're going. to finish the hurrican there's some. interesting things to talk about. Okay, you're going to like it. Click join. Hammer Elite. Three premium shows every. single day, six days a week, including. an extra 20 minutes of this episode. called [music] Financial Auto Show. See. you there. You have an insane tool. collection, insane game collection, but. you refuse to sell it. You have tens of. thousands of dollars just sitting around. and you won't do to improve your. life. Get the out of this room. Get.

out of this room. >> This has never happened. We kicked him. out of the post show. >> Don't forget the summer budget reset IS. NOW LIVE. GET A FULL YEAR OF DOLLARWISE. PREMIUM, plus my four bestselling. educational courses and a digital copy. of my budget friendly cookbook and my. exclusive 30-day meal plan signed by me. and mailed directly to you. This is a. better deal than we've ever done before, and it's only for a limited time. It is. 67% off everything. So, don't wait until. that first pool party to get financially. ripped. Click the link below, save big,

claim your bonuses now.