WHOA: Republicans TURN on Trump amid ICE shooting

Trump begins to lose his own allies amid. the latest ICE shooting. And I've got. three interviews. Tommy Vtor, New Jersey. Governor Mikey Cheryl, and Congresswoman. Sarah Jacobs. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen, and. you're watching No Lie. [music]. On Saturday, we all woke up to another. tragic and completely preventable. shooting at the hands of ICE. This time, a 37-year-old ICU nurse who worked at. the VA named Alexander Prey. He was. holding his cell phone, recording ICE. agents on the street, as is his legal. right, when one of the agents charged at. him. Eventually, six agents in total.

jumped on top of him. One of them. removed the gun where it was holstered. on his hip. He had a concealed carry. permit and his gun was legal. And only. after his gun was removed was he shot. multiple times and killed. The evidence. is as clear as day. There are no grainy. videos or images that Trump. administration officials can point to to. muddy the waters, which of course isn't. stopping them from calling Prey a. domestic terrorist, but it's falling on. decidedly deaf ears. In fact, I include. a number of people on the right in that. statement. According to one of Donald.

Trump's US attorneys, Billy, he said, "If you approach law enforcement with a. gun, there's a high likelihood they will. be legally justified in shooting you.". Well, the NRA responded to that, writing, "This sentiment from the first. assistant US attorney for the Central. District of California is dangerous and. wrong. Responsible public voices should. be awaiting a full investigation, not. making generalizations, and demonizing. law-abiding citizens." The group gun. owners of America responded, "We condemn. the unoured comments of US Attorney. Billy. Federal agents are not highly. likely to be legally justified in. shooting concealed carry lences who.

approach while lawfully carrying a. firearm. The Second Amendment protects. Americans right to bear arms while. protesting, a right the federal. government must not infringe upon." Tim. P wrote, "Empty hand, then gun in hand. Appears the man may have been disarmed. before being shot. This is a chain of. events in a greater conflict. Neither. side cares at this point what justifies. it or doesn't. I don't see Trump winning. this one. A staffer for Republican. Senator Ran Paul wrote, "Excuse me, but. what the border is in Minneapolis. and when did it become illegal to carry. a gun in America?" Former counsel to.

George W. Bush wrote, "I helped to. establish DHS in 2002 and 2003 and later. had the Homeland Security portfolio as a. White House counsel and served as. general counsel of the department. I am. enraged and embarrassed by DHS's. lawlessness, fascism, and cruelty. Impeach and remove Trump now." The. Republican House Homeland Security. Committee tweeted, "Chairman Garberino. has formally requested testimony from. ICE, CBP, and USCIS leaders at a full. committee hearing. Congress has an. important responsibility to ensure the. safety of law enforcement and the people. they serve and protect." Here's one Fox.

News guest. >> I've watched that videotape. at least about, let's say, a hundred. times because I knew I was going to be. coming on with you and I wanted to speak. as accurate as I can. Uh, and I do. believe that there needs to be a. complete investigation. I was taken back. by the White House who initially put out. what I defined as mis representation of. what took place there. When you look at. the video, uh, it was said that Mr.

Petti was banishing a weapon. Well, he. was not banishing a weapon. Yes, he did. have a weapon. It was said that by the. White House that Mr. Petti attacked. those agents. No, he did not attack. those agents. And one of the White House. individuals called Mr. Pretti a domestic. terrorist. I find this man is dead. He. has a family. And to go out and call him. a domestic terrorist without giving any. more information is just unacceptable.

And then John, when I looked at the. video, what you saw was a agent pushing. a woman aside, Mr. Pretti getting. sprayed, them jumping on top of Mr. Petti. And this is something that our. audience should see with their own eyes. You can see where one of the agents. actually physically takes Mr. Ped's gun. And that is before he's shot and then. all of a sudden he's shot. There's a. pause and there are more bullets that.

are shot in his direction. So that. investigation, what I'm asking is that. there be a complete and thorough and. transparent investigation joined not. only by the federal agencies, but also. by the state and local investigators. also working together. >> In fact, here are some comments on the. conservative subreddit. I thought Renee. Good's case was borderline but likely. legally justified. They still should. have had a formal investigation just. because of the lethal outcome. this.

case. Don't know how anyone can side. with ICE here. On top of that, the. person killed turned out to be an ICU. nurse, not some unemployed professional. protester. I wanted an enforcement of. law and order. This doesn't look like. it. Bad, bad look. Stop coping. This was. another bad look by ICE. We are allowed. to bear arms. These ICE agents are. clearly untrained and see ghosts. Many. such cases. Just saw Steven Miller's. response. Why do they think that people. will believe whatever they say? I've. been MAGA from day one and my post. history shows that if Trump does not.

reign in his administration from letting. their low IQ behavior hurt this. administration's goals, then we aren't. just going to lose this midterm, we're. going to lose every election for. decades. So, I think you get the. picture. The story being pedled by this. administration is so blatantly false. that it's actually become contemptuous. for their own supporters. They are. feeding them straight horseshit and. expecting them to believe it and swallow. it whole. Calling an ICU nurse who was. holding a phone a domestic terrorist who. was brandishing a gun and charging at. law enforcement officers is not going to. fly when there's video evidence from. every angle of this interaction that it.

was the ICE agent who charged him and a. cell phone in the guy's hand, not a gun. And if the lying isn't bad enough, now. you've got the administration losing its. own base by vilifying the fact that he. was carrying a legal firearm, something. they at least used to pretend to care. about. And yet, that's the thing here. There is no underlying principles to. anything that they're doing because the. only thing they actually care about is. power like unbridled uncompromising. power. That's why they've undermined. their own positions on family values, on. states rights, on fiscal conservatism.

because it was all just window dressing. to make themselves look virtuous when in. reality all they cared about was power. And we're seeing that at play right now. So if this administration wants to play. their own supporters for fools, that's. their prerogative. But all they're doing. is proving how stupid they think they. are. And that's not without consequence, clearly. Will that stop this White House. from doubling down? Obviously not. So, if they want to continue shedding. supporters on a daily basis, they are. free to do exactly that. Next up are my. interviews with Tommy Vtor, Mikey.

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Newsome has managed to find a way to. overshadow Donald Trump today by saying. something particularly provocative on. stage at Davos. >> I was going to speak last night. It was. well established event at the USA House. after Trump's speech. They made sure. that I didn't uh they made sure it was. canceled. Any institution of independent. thinking is under assault and attack by. the Trump administration. You're seeing. what's playing out in the streets of. American cities. It played out in. California, the second largest city in. the United States of America. Masked men.

guy Greg Bavino dressed up. It's as if. he literally went on eBay and purchased. SSGARB. Greg Bravino, secret police, private army, mass men, people. disappearing, quite literally, no due. process, people dragged in the streets, kids separated from families, knocking. on doors, racially profiling American. citizens. So, is it surprising the Trump. administration didn't like my commentary. and wanted to make sure that I was not.

allowed to speak? Uh, no. >> So, I want to talk about one thing in. particular, and that is this idea that. Greg Bino, who's in charge of CBP, he. showed up in this in this garb. And I'm. going to put uh the side by side right. here on the screen of what Bo looks like. and what like SS officers in the 1930s. and like the in like, you know, who who. were uh who were serving under Hitler. looked like. And so for an. administration that's so focused on on. optics as this administration is an. administration so focused on marketing. as this administration is as they have.

this like propaganda camera team. following ICE on a daily basis. Why. offer up these optics if if it's. inevitable that people are going to draw. those comparisons? >> Yeah. I mean they're trying to claim. that like he's had this jacket forever. and it was issued to. >> since 1930. [laughter]. >> 1941. >> Since 1941. >> It it looks really weird. And like look, there's all these images out there of. Bavino in the field with other ICE. officers or CBP officers. He's the only. one dressed in a giant coat from the. 1930s. Like everyone else is wearing.

like Northface and a mask. You know, everyone looks completely normal like. thugs, but they look normal. And so like. it's a choice. He made a storial choice. He thinks he looks cool in this thing. But like if I if I walked out to an. event with you, Brian, and I was wearing. a gray jacket with like two pockets. fully buck, you know, buttoned in the. top and you were like, "Why are you. dressed like Chairman Mao?" And I was. like, "What are you talking about?". >> Yeah. >> What do you mean? It's a choice. You're. wearing a ridiculous gigantic great coat. jacket that dictators in World War II. wore. >> Yeah. And and and of course that's.

underscored by the fact that, you know, there are the obvious similarities. between what ISIS is doing and what the. Gestapo did about demanding papers from. people on the streets. Uh serving as. judge, jury, and executioner where you. just kill people on the streets. And so, you know, those notwithstanding, the. fact that they also are are dressing. like them isn't lost on anybody. But I. want to talk about uh Nuome for a moment. because you know he's he's really one of. the only people who's out there at least. at least um who's kind of in the running. unofficially uh for president in 2028. who's making this case. We're not really.

hearing much from a lot of the other. folks who are who we would assume are. contenders. I'm curious what your. thoughts are on that whole process. >> Yeah, I mean look, you know, one way to. look like uh Donald Trump's opponent is. to go out there and make yourself Donald. Trump's opponent, you know, and he's. just done such an effective job of that. I mean, some of it is the tweeting and. the trolling and that's been fun and. we've talked about that before, but he's. also taken it overseas like he went to. the COP summit, the climate action. summit in Brazil earlier or last year. Um, and then he went to Davos and was I.

guess going to give a speech um at this. thing called the Fortune USA house which. has some ties to the US government. At. least it was viewed as the like official. US government venue for speakers and. things and then they canceled on them. last minute. So Gavin went out and made. this aggressive case that the government. is trying to censor him and in so doing. got exponentially more attention than he. would have otherwise. So it's like he's. just been really smart and savvy. >> Yeah. And I mean we we've seen this. process play out. Uh you and I had. spoken offline about this idea that when. Barry Weiss tried to kill the Secot.

story on 60 Minutes, all it did is draw. way more eyeballs to the Secot story on. 60 Minutes. >> and they accidentally aired it in Canada. >> and they [laughter] they they aired it. in Canada and ultimately there was so. much pressure that they had to air it in. the United States anyway. So a story. that would have just like kind of you. know come and gone uh like a fart in a. hurricane instead garnered all this uh. all this attention. But but look I I. think also um what's important to note. as far as the Newsome stuff is concerned. and this doesn't just have to do with. Newsome. I think it's it the same goes. for any candidate is like I think of. this moment right here that we're in as.

the audition for 2028. And so if you're. not willing to put yourself out there at. a time where a the country desperately. needs it. I mean, watching ICE agents. serve as, you know, serve as these this. this secret police force, killing people. on the streets, watching an an. unbburdened, unbridled president uh uh. declare war on NATO allies and try to. annex our our, you know, our friends. Um. if ever there was a moment for somebody. to speak out, it's right now. Um but on. top of that, like like there is a.

Democratic party that's desperate for. leadership. Y. >> that is rudderless that it doesn't have. a leader right now. And so if you want. to make the case, you know, 3 years from. now, that you deserve to be the leader. of of the party, but also the country, this is the moment to show that you're. willing to do it when it when like when. it actually matters, when people need. some of that leadership, not just when. it's convenient for you because you. know, you've got uh some filing deadline. or because of campaign campaign finances. and and you know what what dates hit. where before you have to start.

>> officially say something officially say. something and start committ. Exactly. >> Yeah. Know, but Gavin Newsome has made. himself like the proverbial fart in. Trump space suit, you know? That. just lingers. [laughter]. >> Look, there were there were two like big. events that really broke through from. Davos besides Trump like kind of. threatening to annex Greenland. >> I'm just waiting for another fart pun. >> Nope, that's all I got for today. Uh uh. and then kind of climbing down from his. own remarks. It was Gavin Newsome kind.

of punching back as we saw there. And. then it was Mark Carney, the prime. minister of Canada, who was like, "Everyone wake up. The international. order as we knew it is over. We got to. fight back." And. >> you know, the people who recognize that. like everybody unanimously understands. that that is the right approach. And so. there is no excuse for the rest of the. people whether it's other European. countries who are still who are still. engaging in this practice of appeasement. or frankly other uh Democrats in the. United States who think that the way to. get something from Donald Trump you know.

is to is to capitulate to him or. non-democrats you know whatever anybody. in the United States who thinks that the. way to get something from Trump is to. capitulate to him. He's shown with how. he's comported himself uh surrounding. ABC News that that's not the way. You. don't buy yourself any goodwill. CBS did. the exact same thing. They paid him 16. million bucks. Now he's continues to. on them on a daily basis. >> And the other day, the new CBS Evening. News anchor, what's his name? Tony. Dopal. Yeah. >> Uh he did an interview and then you read. this Caroline Levit, the White House. press secretary, was like, "If you don't. run the whole thing, we'll sue you.".

>> Yeah. You don't you don't buy yourself. any goodwill by capitulating to these. people. All you show Donald Trump is. that you are weak and you can be bought. by him. >> and bullied. >> and bullied and and and he does it over. and over and over again. And the only. thing more pathetic than these. institutions continually um debasing. themselves for him is thinking that. somehow this time will be different. And. it's never different. He will continue. to on you, continue to bully you, continue to extort you every single. chance he gets. >> Yeah. Like Trump is Biff from Back to.

the Future. All right. Like when you're. walking to school and like the bully. beats you up and takes her lunch money, is that a one time thing? No. If you. like cry and let him have it, he'll beat. you up again and again and again. Like. you got to throw a punch. You got to. push back on this guy. That's kind of. what happened on this Greenland thing. It seemed like Europe was ready to to. roll out their biggest response. mechanism, this thing called the. anti-corion uh initiative. Um that would. have levied massive tariffs probably on. the United States or at least cut off US. businesses from the European markets. And it it spooked the stock market and. that spooked Trump and he caved.

>> Yeah. >> Seems pretty simple, >> right? And and it and it puts on full. display that this guy is not immune to. to pressure. He's not immune to economic. pressure. He's not immune to popular. pressure. You know, the reason that he. tries so hard to prevent individual. people from voting is because voting has. a huge impact. The reason that he tries. so hard to prevent these comedians from. being able to go on TV and tell their. jokes is because those people have a. huge impact. Like that's why he's that's. why he's making such a concerted effort. to to suppress votes or to silence. people or to to weaponize his FCC or to.

use the DOJ to to make sure to prosecute. his political opponents. Be it Jerome. Powell today Jack Smith, uh James Comey, Leticia James, it's because he knows the. power that these individual people have. by by virtue of speaking out. And so he. has to do anything he can to just chill. that speech or censor them or whatever. it may be. And and and it's it's an. important point because um he will go to. the ends of the earth to punish these. individuals. And if no one stands with. them, they are just alone. Like we have. this collective action problem where. like everyone's cowering in fear. No one.

wants the eye of Sauron of Trump like to. be on them for that moment. But if. everyone just kind of like quietly looks. away and ignores what's happening, we're. all going to get hit eventually. Like. this is coming for all of us. You're not. going to avoid this wave that Trump has. has brought. I mean, he's it this. crackdown is insane. It's. unconstitutional. Um, it's starting with. migrants, but who knows where it'll end. >> And and that that weakness, um, I think. is is is especially pronounced right. now. When Trump had banned the AP from. coming into the press briefing room, no.

other outlet stood with the AP. Like, they they could have they could have, you know, boycotted these press. briefings. They didn't, which is ironic. because a few years back when you were. in the White House um and Fox News of. all places had had issues with um with. uh with. >> getting access to an interview. >> with getting access to an interview, all. of these other news outlets stood by. them and and it was the Obama. administration that actually relented on. that and Fox got what it wants. But like. you do that by virtue of of having your. friends and allies stand alongside you.

and the fact that we're not seeing that. today because it's just going to be. easier. let's not, you know, push. against the grain, whatever it may be, is ultimately, you know, going to hurt. you in the end. >> Yeah. The the media piece is really. important because Trump is like slowly. chipped away at the independence of the. media. He's controlled uh who can cover. pulled press events, the smaller events. that happen in the Oval or smaller. venues. We've also seen over at the. Department of Defense, they basically. tried to force them to sign rules that. would have essentially criminalized the. job of being a reporter. So all those.

reporters had to walk out and like you. know the the the reporters over at the. Department of Defense are doing an. amazing job from outside the building. But you know they will have an erosion. of access. They won't see people in the. hallways. There will be less. serendipity. And then over at the White. House, Donald Trump does a press. conference and every third question is. from like my pillow, you know, podcast. or something and it's like why are you. so great, sir? >> North Korean state media. >> North Korean state media like how much. how cool is Bavino's coat, sir? Yeah. >> You know, and it's just like I. mean, it's just the steady erosion of.

any opportunity to hold this guy to. account. >> Yeah. Well, now we have uh what is it? Nick Shirley who's uh learning learning. word learning go three syllable words in. real time as he's uh as he's become the. top reporter on the right. Benevolent. And. >> it is wild the the I obviously like. greatly support independent media. And. by the way, if you want to support. independent progressive media, please. subscribe to Brian's channel. Please. subscribe to Podsave America because. we're out here trying to report the. news, try to bring you guys facts, try. to do it from a progressive point of. view and it really matters when you. follow us because if you don't, people.

are going to find Nick Shirley's. and the Daily Wire and TP USA, right? So, please um give us a follow. It's free. But you know like the way. like an independent journalist like him. can come along report something that. seems salacious but is kind of. complicated and then Elon Musk can juice. that story so it's the most viewed thing. ever on Twitter not on the merits not. because it was you know exposed. something particularly new like the. fraud uh issues in Minnesota are real um. they've been reported on like there's.

all kind. >> and they've been prosecuted. yeah they so um anyway it's just a you. We are living in a very rigged media. environment uh in favor of Donald Trump. And it just got worse today actually. I. mean, I think there's about to be a for. sale of Tik Tok's US components to a. bunch of, you know, Trump fans and. donors. >> Yeah. And and we've seen like the. consolidation of the media. I think. that's one of the most dangerous and. most underreported stories because even. even as Trump continues to engage in all. of like this extrajudicial and il.

overtly illegal unconstitutional. behavior and action. um if nobody knows. about it's like if a tree falls in the. woods like you know so so we've you know. lost CBS uh CNN is on the chopping block. because that's possibly up for sale to. to the same entity that that um you know. the same cons consortium that that David. Ellison is involved in. Tik Tok. obviously is is a huge problem and. ironically enough that's one of the most. progressive skewing outlets social media. outlets that that we have because it's.

so young. Um, so yeah, I mean the the. the way that we're seeing like this this. this whole media space skew to the. right, ironically enough under this this. pretense that that all media is too. liberal and so they're un unfairly being. uh being criticized is just going to. become more and more dangerous as they. control more information and as they. control more algorithms. And we've seen. that the Mark Zuckerbergs of the world. are willing to cowtow to Trump. Jeff. Bezos is willing to cowtow to Trump. We've seen that the folks at Tik Tok are. willing to cowtow to Trump. Um and and.

you know, as he puts more pressure and. to to your exact point, as fewer and. fewer other outlets, other companies. stand by the people who are targeted, it's only going to, you know, be a. matter of time until every single outlet. falls. So again, that underscores the. need for independent outlets right now. to step up and fill that void so that. we're not just seeing the Barry. Weissification of all media. >> Yeah. And like in some ways, like look, the the Barry Weissification thing is. very frustrating. uh you hate to see. like an incredible establishment media. property like 60 minutes atrophy the way.

it is. Yeah. But in other ways it's like. that's kind of like the last battle. Well, it's more what you're talking. about these new indep independent media. sources and the way these u algorithms. are being juiced to support one side or. the other because like the greatest. problem in politics for candidates is. for every like freak like us who reads. about politics every day, there's way. more voters who like maybe consume a. couple hours of political news a healthy. must be really good for you. [laughter]. Must be really good. can't imagine not. having to like ruin my day within the.

first 4 seconds of being awake by by. opening up Twitter. >> You're like, he pardoned who? Crypto. what? Um yeah. And so like reaching. those people like if if any of those. kind of low informationational low. information casual voters heard that. Donald Trump uh pardoned the former. president of Honduras who had been. convicted of trafficking 400 tons of. cocaine to the United States, I think. they'd be pretty upset about it. Donald Trump does something outrageous. every.

distraction for one quick beat because I. know that with the Epstein stuff. happening um that was kind of. overshadowed by a lot of the. [clears throat] enforcement action that. we're seeing um in Minnesota. It was. overshadowed by a lot of the the um. saber rattling happening in in. Greenland. And I I had heard some people. say like this is a distraction from. what's happening with Epstein. And I. think look I think there is a way to. consider that a distraction from talking.

about Epstein because we are distracted. by it. But I don't but I think unto. itself. >> it's it's more than a distraction. Like. Trump is just showing how overtly. autocratic and dangerous and depraved. and evil he is. Like when you have these. actions where he is blowing up the world. order so that he can invade and annex a. sovereign country and one of our own. NATO allies. That's not just a. distraction. Like like that's basically. like saying, you know, don't pay. attention. He's trying to distract you. from this murder by murdering somebody. else. Like they're they're both bad and. they can stand on their own two feet.

And so I don't want to diminish the the. the danger of what he's doing in. Greenland and what he's doing in with. ICE by by just reducing it to a. distraction because I think on its own. two feet, it's also just as bad and just. as worthy of condemnation. Now, that. doesn't mean that we can't also talk. about Epstein and keep that in the. zeitgeist and and discuss the fact that. he's engaged in a cover up, but it's not. just a distraction. >> Yeah. Look, if if all this Greenland. stuff was just designed to be a. distraction from the Epstein files, then.

he was distracting from a story to. another one that pulled even worse. 90. 90% of voters were like, "We should not. invade Greenland." And so, what I I. think it's not a distraction as much as. it's just a strategy. like Trump does. something outrageous every single day. because he knows it creates news because. he knows he can kind of like bend. thinking around an issue. Uh you know. the Overton window like that concept's. almost gone you know he just sort of. like shoves the Overton window you know. he doesn't push it. So um yeah is it a. distraction from Epstein? Sure it served.

as one certainly there was a period of. time when the Epstein files really were. exploding where they were looking to. talk about anything else. I mean, that. was when they rolled out the um uh we're. going to prosecute Barack Obama for. treason button, right? Remember that? >> I remember there was a week where like. anything they had literally they were. >> spaghetti at the wall all day long. >> But yeah, I mean. >> I think they also called for Oprah to be. prosecuted that week they [laughter]. called. >> Of course they did. Of course they did. But I do think he really did want to. annex Greenland and had to climb down. because it was a disaster.

>> Correct. And and I think you know there. there is a lot of things happening. But. I think the easiest way at least for me. to think about this is that these are. all smart small parts of a larger hole. Watching Donald Trump engage in this. dangerous ICE activity. Watching Donald. Trump um you know alienate our allies, alienate the US on the world stage and. try to invade sovereign countries. watching Donald Trump, you know, try to. wiggle his way out of releasing the. Epstein files despite the fact that it. was signed into law by him, it just goes. to show that like the things that he. wants to spend his time on, he spends.

his time on. Like he can find time to go. into Greenland. He can find time to to. wage an oil war in South America. he can. find time to to. >> to decorate the frigin new ballroom. >> to decorate a ballroom to encrust the. Oval Office in gold to buy himself a. couple Gulfream jets that Christine. Gnome can use. >> or get one from Qar. >> or get one from Qar. So he if he wants. to do something he finds a way to do it. He's not going to let the law stop him. He's not going to let um uh uh. prosecutors or judges stop him. He's not. going to let Democrats stop him. He's. not going to let the Constitution stop.

him. which goes to show that when he. doesn't do something, and by that I mean. lower costs, lower inflation, make IVF. free, protect earned benefits, release. the Epstein files and the Russia Ukraine. war on day one, when he doesn't do. something, it's because he just doesn't. have the will to do it. >> Yeah. He just doesn't care. I mean, look, and this is ultimately his. greatest political problem and threat, which is that they've done nothing on. the economy. I mean, there's a new New. York Times poll out today. His. disapproval is at 56%. 49% of voters say. the country was worse off than it was a. year ago. Nearly 70% rated the economy.

unfavorably. And then even on the ICE. stuff, like that has been their primary. focus has been immigration enforcement. 61% of voters, including 71% of. independents, said ICE had gone too far. So Trump is very effectively distracting. us into or the media at least into. talking about Greenland, something. that's unpopular. But people also feel. like he's not doing the job they want. him to do. And that's bad. That's bad. for him. >> Yeah. He's he's going from like one. unpopular thing by distracting us with. another unpopular thing. All of which. kind of entrenches this idea that he's.

not working for Americans also which is. an unpopular idea. So um with that said, we will continue to stay on top of this. stuff. For everybody who's watching. right now, if you are not yet subscribed. to Podsafe America's YouTube channel, I'm going to put that link right here on. the screen and also in the post. description of this video. small step. everybody can take to help build up the. progressive media ecosystem so that when. new people come online they're not. automatically sorted into right-wing. sources and fall into those rabbit. holes. So again, completely free, great. way to support us and a great way to. support independent media more broadly. Tommy, thanks so much as always for.

taking the time. >> and get all my news from Clavicular. >> I'm joined now by the new governor of. New Jersey, Mikey Cheryl. Thanks so much. for joining me. >> Thanks so much for having me. So, I want. to talk about uh about what you've been. doing in New Jersey. But first, uh some. national news is that we have seen Trump. kind of take his revenge against any. blue cities and blue states by going. state by state and sending in ICE. We've. seen it happen in my state, in Los. Angeles. We've saw we've seen it happen. in Chicago, in Portland, in Washington.

DC, in Minneapolis. And as the governor. of, you know, a true blue state in New. Jersey, is there some concern that uh. that Donald Trump is going to, you know, eventually turn his attention into New. Jersey where there's obviously a. flourishing immigrant community and kind. of do what he's done everywhere else and. seek vengeance upon the people of your. state uh on behalf of the Republican. party? >> Well, he already is doing that. not do. with ICE in this instance, but he's. actually targeting uh quite a few blue.

states, 11 or 12 blue states, including. New Jersey, with spirious investigations. to root out fraud. So his typical use. targeted investigations against his. political opponents, contrary to really. all the values of our democracy. So he's. already started on that. And then the. question becomes uh again and again, how. do you continue to fight back against. this completely outofcontrol president. who is as you mentioned putting a.

protoilitary force in ICE on the streets. of our nation against the will of the. people of this nation and then targeting. them politically in every single way. acting as if sort of a real lawless. dictator. and how do you push back. against that? And that's exactly what. we're working to do here in New Jersey. is find a better path forward. Uh work. hard for those values of liberty and. prosperity that have been in our state. seal and our state motto for almost 250.

years. That is what I'm fighting for and. that's what the people of New Jersey. resoundingly said they wanted last. November. >> Can you talk a little bit about. cooperation with ICE? I know that for. example uh Governor Spanberger in. Virginia immediately ended uh a contract. that would force uh the cooperation with. ICE uh in in you know different. municipalities across the state. Can you. talk a little bit about where New Jersey. stands in that whole process? >> Again it should be striking to people to.

see uh someone like Governor Spanberger. or myself people who have worked in the. military and in law enforcement in her. case in the CIA. We I think deeply. rever public service and those people. who serve the public. This ICE agency is. different. This president is uh really. putting together his private militia. I've been flagging this for months now. as we started to see them on the streets.

with masks and no insignia acting. outside the purview of their duties. We've seen it as they've picked up. people who are here legally and yet they. refuse to allow them to prove that. We've seen it as he's put ICE agents in. areas not to keep the peace but to. actually incite. um the people of that state in a in a. maneuver to attack them politically. And. so to see someone like Abigail. Spanberger who's former law enforcement.

herself come in and say this is we are. not working with them. They are that bad. to see someone like her who has a lot of. federal workers in her state say we. cannot work with this federal agency. Certainly here in New Jersey, we have. the immigrant trust directive which I. will continue to carry out to ensure. that our public safety officers, our. police officers are acting in the. interest of the public. >> So I want to switch over to a little bit. about what you've done in just the few. days that you've been governor of the. state. Can you talk about the first.

state of emergency that you've declared? >> Yes. So I said, you know, I made a. commitment during my campaign as I was I. was focused on lowering costs. immediately that the minute I got in. office, I was going to declare a state. of emergency on utility cost, freezing. rate hikes, and then working over the. long term to drive down costs by. expanding power generation. And I. stopped in the middle of my inaugural. address to do just that, to sign these. two executive orders, which will do that.

because I wanted people to know I was. every bit as fed up with business as. normal and the status quo. I was going. to get to work. I was going to hit the. ground sprinting and make sure I was. addressing those key needs right away. So, we did just that. So, can you talk a. little bit about about the extent to. which renewable energy is going to be uh. a part of, you know, this whole energy. infrastructure uh that you're looking to. to deal with in New Jersey, especially. in light of the fact that Republicans. have really just completely turned their.

back on renewable energy being any facet. of of, you know, this formula moving. forward? >> Well, certainly it's noteworthy that we. were moving forward in all kinds of. power generation here in New Jersey and. across the country. And part of the. reason our rates are so high is because. a lot of the oil and gas companies spent. about $250 million on Trump's campaign. and he rewarded them by uh shutting down. a lot of other power generation because. again he's always focused on lining his. own pockets at the expense of of the.

American people and our costs going up. So I am focused on all the above. generation meaning that we are going to. expand solar and battery generation. immediately. That's the cheapest easiest. way to do it. We have about 40% of our. mix which is gas generation but some of. them are older. We're modernizing that. to drive down carbon emissions and. increase efficiency. And then over the. long term nuclear power generation to. build out our power needs. We would love.

to move into other ways to drive down. costs like wind power, but the president. uh has stopped all of the federal wind. farms and the land uh and the leases so. we could move into that. So again, costing New Jersey rateayers a lot of. money as he is picking uh his friends. over the people he should be serving. >> Were there any projects that New Jersey. was involved in that were stopped mid. build uh when he decided to do that? Yes, we were um working we were still.

moving ahead on one wind project that um. because he wouldn't uh give us the. federal leases we had to we had to stop. So we have now moved to fixing some of. our transmission across the state so we. can get more power into the grid. move. to solar and battery storage uh and. moving long-term to nuclear as I. mentioned modernizing the that gas. generation to drive down carbon. emissions and then uh we are also taking.

on PJM that's our grid operator which is. really again favored some of the dirtier. fuels instead of getting new clean power. generation into the grid driving up. costs for everyone and so I've already. been working with Governor Shapiro and. Governor Moore on how we are going to. better hold them accountable. >> and is that something that you can that. you have oversight over at the state. level? Like are you able to tell the. grid operator the the the cap that you. want dirty energy to be um in terms of. the formula, you know, in terms of the. the the total combination of of uh.

different energy sources. >> So we are able to tell the grid operator. our expectations, but again PJM that the. real threat is pulling out of that grid. Um, and so should PJM decide they are. not going to run the grid in a way. that's going to drive down costs for. everyone and drive down carbon. emissions, then in concert with other. states, we may make some choices about. how we're going to manage our grid. And. that might not include PJM running it. >> Okay, got it. Now what what are broader.

goals for your administration that you. know you can look back uh years from now. and say you know if this was. accomplished then this administration. was a success or vice versa. >> If I can ensure that we are better. holding BPU accountable that's a or or. we are better holding our utility. companies accountable but BPU the Bureau. of Public Utilities has been charged by. my executive order with looking at the. business model of our public utilities.

We know they've made billions of dollars. while the rateayers have paid more and. more and more. Um, if we can get a. better business model in place, if we. have our grid operator that is more. quickly putting power into our grid, especially the clean renewable power. that we want, if we have already gotten. to work on a nuclear plant that is going. to add power to our grid, um, along with. of course as a baseline growing out our. solar battery storage and other uh, new. ways of generating power. If we are. doing that, that is going to be. successful. If I can look at third grade.

reading store scores in my state and. know that we have phonics education. implemented, that we have actually done. something um I think new and meeting. children's needs in our school system. for the first time in decades here. Uh. and that we are, you know, competing for. that top spot which New Jersey has. traditionally held as the best education. system. That will be a big win if our. kids have access to better mental health. resources and we take on online safety. in my kids online safety agenda and we.

have the center of excellence. I'm going. to build out at one of our colleges or. universities so that we have better data. on those algorithms um and better data. on the mental health because we know. every time big tech studies it studies. it it is so bad they stop the studies. So as a state we are going to invest in. that. Um that will be a success. And if. the people of New Jersey who want to. start a small business, want to get a. real ID, want to engage in any way with. our government feel really well served,

if they feel like the interaction. they've had with state government, um. that at in that interaction that they. know every single person in my. administration is truly there to serve. the public, which I believe is a a. really noble calling. if they feel that. kind of service, if they know that in. New Jersey their government cares deeply. about them, that'll be a huge win to me. as well. So, I want to switch gears a. little bit here. Uh, I spoke with. Governor Moore from Maryland just a. couple of days ago. He announced the. introduction of an 8 to nothing map and.

that was passed by the the GRA, the. governor's uh uh redistricting advisory. commission. Similarly, in Virginia, we're speaking about Governor. Spanberger. In Virginia, they're looking. to put forward a 10 to1 map. That's. obviously in the aftermath of California. passing its own map. And all of this is. in response to what Republicans have. done in Texas, in Missouri, in North. Carolina, in Ohio, and now in Florida. So, in the event that um that New. Jersey, you know, the the legislature. reconvenes and has the opportunity to. redraw maps in New Jersey, is that.

something that you've seen any interest. in from legislators? So it would take there's certain ways we. we have bipartisan redistricting or. nonpartisan redistricting by. constitution. So there's certain ways in. which we have to go to the people to ask. that question. I'm very interested in it. because I think we are going to see a. lot of malfeasants by Trump. Certainly I. was there on January 6 on the floor of. the house as he tried to stay in office. So why anyone thinks as he's already. said he's going to try to stay in.

office, he won't. That's um I think. wishful thinking. >> Yeah. So, I'm expecting a great deal of. malfeasance and I want to make sure that. New Jersey is as strong and resilient as. possible in accordance with the will of. the people. So, can you talk a little. bit about the mechanics of what that. would look like? Virginia, for example, needs two consecutive legislative cycles. where where uh the legislature votes to. approve the constitutional amendment, then it goes out into the people. Um, California obviously did Prop 50 and got. this thing on the ballot in 5 minutes.

basically. What would the process be. like in New Jersey? uh similar to what. you mentioned with Virginia, there needs. to be two legislative cycles. The. earliest we could get it on the ballot. um with our process uh would be in the. November 20 26 election so we could get. a ballot measure on there. What I think. it would do though is alert people to. our concerns and to the fact that we. think there is is going to be a big.

fight coming. And I think that would. make voters really think twice about how. important their vote is and how. important it is for them to get to the. polls and how important it is for them. to support their democracy. In the event. that we see the Cala decision, section. two of the Voting Rights Act go the. Republicans way, which is to say that. section two of the Voting Rights Act is. gutted. There are no more protections. for these uh black opportunity districts. or minority opportunity districts across. the country. We could see anywhere from. 10, 20, 30 seats get redrawn out of.

these Republicanled maps so that they. can, you know, obviously favor. Republicans instead of Democrats. Would. you preserve the ability for New Jersey. to counter some of the map redrawing. that we may see in the event that the. Supreme Court strikes down the Voting. Rights Act? >> So, we will work to do that. As I said, the first time we could get that on the. ballot um constitutionally would be this. November. I also will tell you as I know. you know and your your listeners know,

we are are already seeing in Texas for. example redistricting with complete. disregard for the Voting Rights Act and. um majority minority districts. But what. we are also seeing is when Republicans. take these measures, the American people. come out in force to try to register. against them. So, what I'm very hopeful. of is no matter what Trump tries to do, that we are going to see a not just a. blue wave, but a blue tidal wave. And I. say that with some level of of hope.

here, not just wishful thinking. I I. think there's a good chance that's where. we're headed given what I saw in my. election. So, there were only two. statewide elections in the entire nation. in 25. And what we saw were huge swings. in in New Jersey, huge swings, 22 point. swings, for example, uh for Latin and. Latino, heavily Latino populations. We. saw swings. We saw u urban black voters. coming out to vote in a force that we.

haven't seen in probably over a decade. We saw I want a generally Republican. county for we won it for the first time. since Watergate. We saw the traditional. white workingclass men come home a. little bit. Not all the way. Not what. I'd like to see. My grandpa is a union. guy. It's a little offensive to me that. I work my butt off for union guys and. sometimes they vote the other way. So, >> yeah, >> you know, trying to get those guys back. But we are seeing the I would say the.

traditional democratic coalition of. working people which I think is our. strongest coalition coming together and. then some some of the new coalition. suburban women for example. We are. seeing that coalition really strong. I. saw that in 25 and I think that has only. the ability to grow that has only. increased since then. So in 26 I am. anticipating that there is not much. Trump can do other than not count votes.

which is possible with him uh to to hold. on to the house. >> All right. Well, we will leave it there. That seems like a good place to leave. off. Uh Governor Cheryl, thanks so much. for taking the time. >> Thanks for having me. I really. appreciate it. >> I'm joined now by Congresswoman Sarah. Jacobs. Thanks so much for joining me. >> Thanks for having me. So, you were part. of a Kodell, a congressional delegation. that went to Denmark to discuss all of. the news happening right now as Donald. Trump saber rattles about annexing uh. Greenland. And I want to talk about that. in a moment. But first and foremost, I.

want to get your reaction to some new. news. And this is a sense that Donald. Trump has in a way capitulated. He made. some some big pronouncement about. concepts of a future framework that may. happen at some untold point in the. future. So it it reads very much like. there's not going to be some imminent uh. annexation of Greenland. Um and as a. result no tariffs and so that this seems. to be quelled for the moment. Um can I. have your reaction to that news? Look, if this is really an offramp that he's.

taking then I'm very happy for that. because the idea of annexing Greenland. makes no sense. But from all of the. public reporting we've seen about this. framework, um it doesn't seem like we're. getting anything that we wouldn't have. already gotten from the existing. treaties that we have in place with. Denmark. Um and so all of this saber. rattling, all of this lack of trust with. our allies. You know, when I was there, I heard from Greenlandic families who. told me that their kids couldn't sleep.

Um we've seen world leaders start to. call out how they no longer trust the. United States as an ally. We saw the. biggest protest in Danish history. against the United States while I was. there. All of that appears to be so that. we could get something that we already. were would be able to get under the. existing frameworks. And this is classic. Trump, right? He sets the fire and then. he claims to put it out and wants to get. credit for it. >> Yeah. So, what was the reaction like. from the folks in in Denmark? And to.

what extent do you think that this has. permanently injured our alliances, you. know, with folks who we rely on to to, you know, do trade deals and and protect. us? And, you know, look, when when uh, you know, in the aftermath of of 9/11, the the Danes, for example, were one of. the countries that lost the highest per. proportion of their of their citizens in. responding to what happened on 9/11. So, these are not people that that uh that. haven't offered something, some goodwill. or some security to the United States in. return for what we give them.

>> Yeah, I'll be honest. In talking with. our Danish and Greenlandic counterparts, they were kind of baffled. Um, they kept. saying that they asked the United States. like, "What more do you want in Arctic. security? What more do you want. economically? Like, we are ready to give. it to you. Just tell us what you want.". And the administration never gave them. anything. And you know the as I. mentioned the biggest protest in Danish. history was while we were there and. there was polling that showed that prior. to all of this 80% of Danes thought that.

the United States was an important ally. Now only single digits level of Danish. people think that we are an important. ally. And I know anecdotally that that's. true across all of Europe. And I think. that the damage to our relationships, the damage to our transatlantic. relationship right to NATO, to these. countries believing that if they get. attacked, we will come to their rescue. Um I think that has been completely. eroded.

>> To what extent do you think that given. the fact that there was no response from. the Trump team on what else they can do. to bolster Arctic security? To what. extent do you think that this was then. just a vanity project for Trump so that. he can look at a map and say look uh we. expanded American territory that's. because of me you know dear leader. >> it was 100% a vanity project there is. literally nothing that we could be. getting now that we couldn't have gotten. under existing treaties and in fact like.

it would have cost a lot of money to get. nothing right the Danes subsidize. Greenland by about a billion dollars a. year that's a billion dollars we would. have had to take on. They have Arctic. capabilities that we don't have. Not to. mention that one of the people I was. traveling with was Lisa Marowski, the. senator from Alaska, and she will tell. you that we don't even invest enough in. the existing US Arctic and the Arctic. security that we need in Alaska, let. alone adding on Greenland now. um when. we're not already making the Arctic.

security investments we need. >> moving forward. Even if there's a. Democratic administration that uh that. succeeds this administration. and we are able to restore a lot of the. alliances that have been that have been. frayed or broken? I mean, doesn't the. rest of the world see that as like, okay, so we're just going to bounce back. and forth between, you know, this. lunatic right-wing fringe that wants to, you know, usher in a second era of. imperialism and then, you know, a. democratic administration that that. understands the importance of NATO and.

and depending on what person wins uh a. presidential election is going to. determine whether, you know, China can. invade Taiwan and and Russia can invade. Ukraine and the United States can invade. other nations. NATO allies or not? I. mean, how how does that how does that. help us with any long-term alliances. looking beyond just every four years of. a presidential election? >> No, that's exactly right. I don't think. anyone in the world will agree to make a. deal with the United States that's. longer than four years because they just.

don't believe that any deal will. actually be implemented longer than four. years. And that's true now. And it was. true in Trump's first administration. when he pulled us out of the Iran deal. that that had been painstakingly. negotiated. not just with Iran, but in. partnership with our European partners. and allies who were part of that deal. And so I am very worried about what this. means in terms of how our allies will. trust us, how much hedging they will do. Um, and I also think it's important for. us to recognize for a long time I think.

there was this bipartisan consensus that. the US was the indispensable nation. that, you know, we were so important. We. called all the shots. Everyone else. followed us. And that's just not the. world we're living in. It's not the. world we're going to be living in. Frankly, like this era of US hijgemony. uh is no longer here. And I think it's. incumbent on us also as Democrats to. recognize that we're going to be. operating in a different world. And to. not just, you know, as Mark Carney said. in his speech yesterday, nostalgia is.

not a strategy. Um and we need to have a. a real concrete kind of introspective uh. conversation with ourselves about what. our foreign policy really needs to look. look like going forward in this new. world. >> You had mentioned the point of. bipartisanship and the Kodell the. congressional delegation was bipartisan. You did have some Republican members. um. how important is that aspect of it? Or. are these Republicans just some tiny. minority, you know, to give kind of a. veneer of bipartisanship when the. reality is that the rest of the.

Republican party is perfectly content to. sacrifice their firstborns if that's. what Donald Trump uh demands of them? You know, it's a good question and I've. been having a lot of conversations with. my Republican colleagues um here in the. House and you know, there's a lot of. them who thought this Greenland thing. was a terrible idea. I think you know, Tom Tillis, Senator Tillis, a Republican. from North Carolina, has been the most. outspoken, calling it stupid. But, you. know, I've had a lot of those private. conversations um with my colleagues. The.

problem is for my colleagues here in the. House, it takes quite a lot to get those. private conversations they'll have with. us into actual real concrete action. And. a lot of what we heard was, well, after. he invades, we'll do something. And you. know, my point to them was after he. invades is too late. We need to be. working now um to prevent that from. happening. And even the idea that we. will or will not be invading an ally. based on the whims of a single person um.

is deeply problematic. Right? The. constitution, article one of the. constitution gives the power to declare. war and peace to congress because the. founders knew that this was too. important of a role for one person to be. responsible for. And the idea that like. tariffs, yes or no, will he, won't he, invasion, yes or no, will he, won't he? um is the world we're all living in is. actually the fault of Congress for not. standing up and reclaiming our power to. be the ones to make these decisions. >> Right. But that would that that would uh. that would suggest that Mike Johnson.

would actually assert his own autonomy. and as a as an extension um of Donald. Trump. That's never going to happen. Um. you know, you had also spoken about Mark. Carney. Obviously, his speech at at. Davos was um was the big showstopper on. day one. You know, Mark Carney and. Canada had announced that they're. dropping those tariffs on Chinese EVs, and there there's so much there's so. much jingoism and saber rattling from. the US, especially Republicans, against. China. But is there no acknowledgement.

of the dichotomy of this position where. you have these Republicans who claim. that they're going to do everything they. can to stop an ascendant China, but by. alienating ourselves on the global. stage, all we're doing is creating. openings that China is perfectly content. to fill. We saw Canada fill that void. with China just a few days ago. And. we've seen other countries uh uh get. closer to China um to strike trade deals. because they know that they're a more.

reliable and and less erratic trade. partner, less volatile trade partner. than the United States is going to be. And so is there no is there no like. reconciling those two things that are in. blatant conflict with each other among. at least your Republican colleagues? >> You're exactly right. And for a long. time, China has said that we are an. unreliable ally, an unreliable partner. That has been their main line of attack. against us. And we are feeding right. into that idea. And I can't blame our.

allies for hedging and for thinking. that, you know, they need to cover their. bases because they can't count on us. I. don't think my Republican colleagues. like have really thought that second. order effect. And I think part of what's hard is that. within the Republican party right now, there is this sort of factionalism of. like the isolationists versus the hawks. and the neocons. And I think some of it. is that like this is getting caught in. that sort of internal fight. Yeah.

>> Um but yeah, like if what you care about. is making sure that China doesn't rise, which I actually would argue that this. whole frame of strategic competition. actually leads us to do things that make. us less safe. But if that is your. position, which is the stated position. of Republicans, then I think yeah, you. should be seeing everything that Donald. Trump is doing through that lens and. saying like this is actually not making. us more competitive at all. I mean, even. Trump himself invokes China and Russia.

as the whole rationale for doing this. this whole, you know, purported. Greenland annexation. We can't be. neighbors with China and Russia. And yet. all he's doing by virtue of alienating. ourselves and and hurting NATO, dismantling. I mean, this would be. effectively a death nail for NATO if one. NATO country invaded and annexed. another. That's it for NATO. That's a. wrap. Um, but NATO is the only thing. actually preventing uh some incursion on. Greenland by by uh China or Russia. And.

so he's the like the only thing that's. preventing what Trump claims to want to. prevent I is is the very institution. that he's trying to destroy at this very. moment. Well, and I think that goes to. the point that Donald Trump doesn't care. about, believe in, or understand NATO. Because he, I think, truly believes that. the only way the US would protect. Greenland is if we owned Greenland. Not. recognizing that the whole point of NATO. is that if Greenland were to be attacked. or invaded by Russia or China, the.

entire NATO alliance would come to its. defense. That's the entire point of. NATO. And so I actually think the idea. that he's questioning whether or not. NATO is enough to protect Greenland is. itself throwing cold water onto NATO and. then like proving his own point that we. need to own it. Right? It's this very. circular logic. But you know even with. all of the harm that Trump has been. doing to these institutions. I think we. also need to be clear that you know this. is not just a partisan problem. Right. I. would argue that living up to our values.

is how we are able to build these. coalitions and coalitions are what make. us powerful. Um, and you know, we saw. with the Biden administration, with. Gaza, with what's happening in Sudan, that a lot of partners around the world. feel like we don't hold our friends to. the same standards that we hold them to. And it makes them less likely to want to. be in coalition with us and to pick our. side when there are big international. fights. And and last question here on. that point of coalitions, is is there.

some understanding at least among the. the folks in in Denmark that you' gotten. the opportunity to speak to? Is there. some understanding that like Trump does. not represent the vast majority of. Americans? That there is a huge faction. of of us in this country who are as. opposed to him as I'm sure they are over. there. And in fact, the polling would. would reflect on this issue in. particular. There was polling um that. that from from Reuters that showed like.

4% support for a military invasion onto. Greenland. Like you can't get 96% of. Americans to agree on what day it is. Like you could you could hold a banana. in your hand and ask them to identify it. and you would not get 96% consensus on. that. But for 96% of Americans to come. out and disagree with with this idea of. invading or using military force to go. into Greenland, that makes it pretty. clear where we stand. And so and so is. there some understanding by the Danes. that we are not a reflection of, you.

know, this one guy in the Oval Office. whose entire foreign policy is just that. some errant synapse fires in his brain. and then words fall out of his face. You know, I was expecting to go to. Denmark and to have them be like really. angry and yelling at us and instead. every, you know, Danish person I spoke. to on the street just like felt bad for. us. >> Yeah, that sounds about right. >> It's happening. Like they weren't mad at. us. They were just like concerned. And. so I do think there is an understanding. that this is not representative of the.

American people, right? The Americans do. not want to invade Greenland. They do. not want to spend reportedly $700. billion to buy Greenland. Right? we. would rather have affordable housing, universal child care, all of these other. things for that money. Um, and I think. they do understand that and you know, they want to make sure that we are then. doing what we need to do to make sure. that that doesn't happen. >> All right. Well, we will leave it there. Thank you for uh thanks for your. leadership on this issue, for going out. there and representing the United States. so that the only representation isn't,

you know, whatever uh word vomit Donald. Trump does on stage at Davos. Um, and uh. and thank you for your time today. >> Of course. Thank you. >> To listen to the audio version of this. episode, click the link right here on. the screen. And please make sure to. subscribe. And of course, to see more. video content, that subscribe button's. on the screen as well. [music].