Trump PANICS as Epstein UPDATE consumes him

I'm joined now by the host of The Story. Is on CNN, which airs 9:00 to 11:00. Pacific, Alex Michaelson. Alex, thanks. for joining me. Thanks, Brian. Great to. have you be back with you. So, Alex, you. have been speaking to a lot of people on. both sides of the aisle, and especially. uh about the Epstein files, because this. is one of the principal issues that. everybody's talking about right now. I'm. curious, especially among your. right-leaning guests that you have on. air, does there seem to be a way for. these people to avoid talking about the. Epstein files, or does it seem like this. is just an issue that's going to dog. them from now until midterms, and.

possibly even beyond? Well, I think it. depends. I mean, there are some folks on. the right um who are really concerned. about the Epstein files, and they have. called out President Trump for it, and. we've seen that on the air. Um and then. there are other folks who I think find. it in their professional uh best. interest to defend President Trump, no. matter what, um and they'll pretty much. say whatever he wants them to say. Uh. now, in terms of whether it will dog. President Trump, I think we don't know.

that yet uh because we haven't seen all. the files. So, based off of what has. come out so far, there is no smoking gun. um that, you know, implicates the. president in any sort of criminal. conspiracy. There's sort of lots of. things that folks on the left are. concerned about, but there's nothing. big. Um I still contend that the issue. that is the biggest potential problem. for President Trump is the economy. right, um and the cost of living. Um. that is what most people deal with on a. day-in, day-out basis, um and that is an.

issue that nobody, Republican or. Democrat, can lie to people about, um. because when they go to the store and. they see the prices, the price is what. the price is, not what some politician. tells you the price is. Well, on this. issue of we don't know, you know, we don't know whether there's any. smoking gun. I mean, you. obviously have covered Trump, you know, for the last decade, uh and in fact, you've you've spoken with him. personally. You've you've had the. opportunity to ans- ask him questions. when when he's come to California to do.

press conferences or whatever it may be. You know that this guy would not. voluntarily subject himself to the news. cycles that he's subjecting himself to. right now if what was in these files. wasn't worth hiding. And so how do how. do you think about that aspect of it? Because he knows the media better than. any other, you know, president ever has. He knows the media better than most. people could could imagine. And so he. understands that if if, you know,

if he is subjecting himself voluntarily. to this media narrative, it has to be. for a reason. Probably. Uh. that's probably true, but we don't we. don't know that for sure. And so, you. know, based off of the way we do things, we have to do it based off of facts and. things that you can prove. Um we do. know, for example, like there were years. of speculation on Russia stuff. Um and. there was not at the end a whole lot. that was provable against him. Um and so. there are folks that are his supporters.

who would say there's a lot of media. hysteria over things which sometimes. turn out to not be true. >> Well, there's And there's nuance when it. comes to the Epstein files, too. Some. people who just are in some ways uh. mentioned in emails are not necessarily. the same people um who were having sex. with underage women. Uh there's nuance. to it as well. Yeah, and I know in in. one of those situations we're we're. talking about uh Casey Wasserman who is. in charge of the Olympics uh here in Los. Angeles in 2028. Can you speak on on.

that story a little bit? So, Casey. Wasserman um is the head of LA 28, which. means he is the the person overseeing. the Olympic Games coming to Los Angeles, which obviously is going to be a huge. world story. He helped uh bring them. here about 10 years ago. He's been. working on this project. Uh very very. influential in Los Angeles um as a. talent manager. He owns a a talent. agency called Wasserman that does a lot. of folks in entertainment and in sports.

So his name was invoked in the Epstein. files. He exchanged flirty emails with. Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein's. girlfriend. And we don't have any evidence of him. exchanging emails even with Jeffrey. Epstein. We have no evidence of all of. him ever going to the island or doing. anything with anyone underage. Casey. Wasserman was married at the time. So. kind of a scumbag thing for your wife to. be exchanging flirty emails with another. woman.

But that would not be a fireable offense. if you owned a company in terms of HR. just because somebody flirted with. somebody else. But his name is associated with Jeffrey. Epstein now because it's in this tranche. of emails. So the board who hires and. fires him so far have stood with him. But some politicians have slowly started. to call for him to be out calling him a. distraction. So much so that he decided. to sell his talent agency and say that.

he was a distraction. So now there's an. effort to get him out of LA 28. We'll. see what ends up happening with that or. not. But it is sort of proof of a bigger. thing. Like for example, there's a guy. named Steve Hilton who's running for. governor of California. And there's an. email that mentions him. that says that he was interested in. setting up a meeting with Woody Allen to. talk to his boss at the time David. Cameron. But it was in the tranche of. email. So some of the Democrats that are. running for California governor have.

said, "Steve Hilton is in the Epstein. files. He should drop out of the race.". And when you dig a little deeper, you're. like, "Really?". So some of it I think the name Epstein. it is getting associated with people and. it's become like a scarlet letter and a. bunch of politicians are reacting but. not every story is the same. And when. you look at the facts of somebody like. uh Prince Andrew, a former Prince. Andrew, what he's involved with and then. accused of much, much, much more.

serious. Or even you look at somebody. like Deepak Chopra uh who has been a. spiritual guru for so many and you look. at the emails and him wanting Israeli. young women and all the rest of that is. just really gross. Um so I I I don't. think it's it's one-size-fits-all when. it comes to the the 3 million plus. documents associated with Jeffrey. Epstein. But isn't it interesting how. how. people's threshold for those who are. involved in the Epstein files is so. sensitive um.

in and in most cases as it should be and. yet this administration doesn't seem to. be carrying that burden. Like we're. seeing foreign governments basically. like like people who are engaged in in. in the UK government or or in northern. Europe. I mean. this is having such a massive effect on. on those people who were in any way. implicated with Epstein and they're all. you know anybody who was involved is. getting ousted from their positions and. we're seeing that all over the world and. yet for this administration it doesn't.

seem to be having any impact whatsoever. Well, in fact the opposite. They seem to. be going out of their way not to even. address it when Pam Bondi had an. opportunity to even look at Epstein. survivors during a testimony she chose. not to do it. Um yeah, it is interesting. seeing the way that the world reacts to. things. It was also interesting Brian. just this past week um I was anchoring. live and uh in the middle of our show we. went to um. uh. South Korea where there was a.

there was an incident where the the. former president was convicted of. inciting. an insurrection and potentially. sentenced to life in prison. Now we know how that went here. in America. [laughter]. They didn't even charge him. And now. they're potentially investigating Jack. Smith for investigating President Trump. So, it is interesting to see around the. world there does seem to be a different. threshold when it comes to to the. government and to and to going after. high-profile officials. I mean, they'd.

be to go after the former president of a. country and convict him of something or. to go after Prince Andrew. I mean, the. king's brother. You know, no royal has. been prosecuted for a crime in hundreds. of years. And the fact that he's, you. know, now potentially going to face. justice is really something if you think. about it. Well, it's kind of it's kind. of these stor- these two stories may. seem disparate, but but they're one in. the same. I mean, this is the same story. of, you know, our inability to hold this. criminal cabal of pedophiles to account.

is not dissimilar to our inability to. hold the ruling class politicians to. account when they've done something. wrong. And ironically enough, it's. happening at the hands of the same. person. Like, Trump has the ability. right now to release the Epstein files. and his DOJ has the ability to hold. these co-conspirators to account. And of. course, Pam Bondi will say, "Oh, there's. we don't even know if there you know, there are no co-conspirators which has. already been disproven. We've already. seen pictures disproving as much. We. know that there are at least six. co-conspirators who Ro Khanna and Thomas.

Massie have uncovered within, you know, two hours of just looking at some of. these files when they had the. opportunity to do so at at at at the. DOJ. And so, you know, that whole. talking point has fallen on its on its. face. But then Trump himself is the one. who was able to evade prosecution, you. know, in in all of these four cases. where he was indicted. And so, you know, this is somebody. who who has shown whether it's, you. know, pedophiles or the ruling class. elites that Trump does not value this. idea.

of holding a certain tranche of people, a certain elitist tranche of people to. account. And and that's sort of I do. think actually some of the political. danger for Donald Trump. because the way that the Epstein files. for the mega base has been for years is. this idea that there's a different set. of justice for people in power. And the way that they're seeing this. play out kind of makes that point. I. mean, you hear somebody like Marjorie. Taylor Greene. who has now, you know, had a public.

break from President Trump over this. issue articulating that point. And it. also goes back to the affordability. issue. I actually think those two things. are tied together as well because the. argument was you're going to fight for. us. You're not going to forget about us. You are going to deliver for us. And if. that's not really happening and the. prices aren't really lower, but but they. see the rich folks who clearly did.

something wrong getting pardoned because. they know the president or they're. they're rich, that doesn't play great. It doesn't look great that you're saying. we're going after Venezuelan drug boats. and other things because you're. concerned about narcotics and then you. pardon a former leader who has a bunch. of criminal. convictions for drug offenses. You know, some of this stuff doesn't look great. and and I do think that there's a danger. in that. And of course the midterms.

coming up in November are going to be a. referendum in large part on exactly that. point. And you know, we we can talk. about the broader midterms, but I think. while I have you and while I have this. opportunity, it's worth talking about. the California gubernatorial race. because this is something that you've. been especially focused on as as. somebody who's obviously been the. principal reporter out here in. California. So how is the California. gubernatorial race looking because from. my vantage it seems like a lot of. Democrats have jumped in. No one's. really caught fire and and in fact there.

is some risk that because of the way. jungle our jungle primary system works, we could see not one but two Republicans. advance to the to the general election. Yeah, I mean the the primary is kind of. nuts. I mean if you think about it. So. that this weekend there was a convention. in San Francisco. All of the Democrats. were there. Matt Mahan, the mayor of San. Jose got in too late to be considered. for the endorsement. To get the party's. endorsement, you need to get 60% of the.

state delegates to be behind you. Eric Swalwell was closest to 60% at 23%. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah, not too that's not too close to. 60% yeah. >> So so that that gives you a sense of the. party leaders. They're not ready to. coalesce behind somebody. There are a. bunch of people running that are all. sort of crowded up against each other. We are starting to see some trendlines. in the race. Eric Swalwell seems to be. doing pretty well um especially with a. lot of the anti-Trump people. Tom.

Steyer, the billionaire who ran for. president. A lot of people remember him, climate change activist. Spent a lot of. money to try to impeach Donald Trump. He's is spending a lot of money. He's. already put in $27 million of his own. money. He's kind of the only person with. ads on TV and it is starting to work. You're starting to see him pick up some. steam. He is interestingly going as the. billionaire who's going for the working. class person. So he's trying to be the. populist candidate and going after labor. unions which traditionally have a lot of.

power in California. Katie Porter who a lot of your audience. is going to be familiar with of course. She's been struggling since those videos. of her came out. You start to see her. down in the polls a little bit. But. there is this phenomenon of potentially. two Republicans. It's unlikely. Yeah. The top data status scientist in in the. state who who runs simulations of this. and and kind of is the go to said it's. about a 12% chance um based off of where. the polls are right now. Um but 12% is.

not 1%. I mean, that's not. an insignificant thing. And if you think. about the potential result of that, um. that California then would have a. Republican governor, and [snorts]. there wouldn't even be a Democrat to. vote for on the general election, which. could have a huge impact down ballot. >> Right. >> on all these close congressional races. and and other statewide office races as. well. Well, to that point, I mean, have. have these candidates been asked.

at a certain point, when it becomes. clear that you're not going to be in the. top two or three, are you willing to. drop out so that we don't end up in a. situation where we've got one or even. two Republicans at the top of the. ticket? I guess the question is who. asked them, though. Uh I mean, uh the. the that Yes, I think I think I think we. will get to that point. Uh I'm not sure. when we will get to that point, but a. lot of these folks don't really have. anything to lose, so they may not. listen. Right. >> Um and uh we'll see. Um there really has. not been a lot of advertising so far. That's going to come. We're still a bit.

of a ways away from it, you know, the. primary's in June, so we have a little. bit of time, but um. but who knows? I mean, it stranger. things have happened. There's a lot of. egos in that race. I'm curious on the. Katie Porter front. It feels like we're. in a political environment, thanks to. Trump, that nothing sticks to anyone. ever. Like everything that feels like it. would have been a career-ending scandal, you know, 5 10 years ago, just comes and. goes like a fart in a hurricane right. now. And so, why do you think that in a.

situation where Katie Porter. uh was was extraordinarily rude to uh to. her um to one of her staffers, which, again, in an in in like the before. times, would have been a big scandal, but now we're in the Trump era, why do. you think that that stuck? Uh well, I. mean, the worst thing in politics can be. a visualization of something that people. already think about you. Um and so Katie Porter has never been. the most popular person in the. Democratic Party in California. I mean,

she got into major fights with Nancy. Pelosi when she was in Washington. She. when she ran for US Senate against Adam. Schiff and Barbara Lee, you know, there's. 40 plus members of the of the. congressional delegation, one of them. endorsed her. One. >> Wow. I actually didn't know that. That. that is not a lot. Yeah, Robert Garcia. was was the only one who did. So, she didn't have a lot of friends to back. her up to begin with. And that was part. of the issue. When she ran for Senate. statewide, she didn't do that well. I.

mean, she finished, you know, a distant. third, not as well as as was expected. So, maybe there wasn't a huge base. there, but there's still time, you know? I mean, she's a. really smart and effective messenger, and she could end up being the one, who. knows? She, though, tried to get. attention at the convention this past. weekend. She took out her famous. whiteboard and she wrote simply. Trump and held that up and tried to lead. a chant of Trump because apparently.

the F-word has become the rallying cry. for the Democratic Party. And she tried to capitalize on that. moment to try to give herself something. that would potentially go viral. Now, another California politician, obviously, is Gavin Newsom. You know, we. we have seen. him pretty much dominate the. conversation as far as 2028 is. concerned. I'm curious like as we look. at at this process play out. He I've. seen the ebbs and flows online where at. first, you know, thanks to not just him, but also his governor's office account.

on Twitter, basically, you know, they he says. holding up a mirror to what Trump is. doing by tweeting like him. Um you know, that caught a lot of. attention. It was It was celebrated by a. lot of folks on the left for finally, you know, pushing back on Trump and. being willing to fight back against. Trump and of course Prop 50 was an. actual instance of him fighting back and. winning against Trump. And then, you. know, there were more progressives who. came out and and they have taken up this. cause of of trying to ensure that Newsom.

doesn't become the nominee in deference. to a [clears throat] more progressive. nominee. How are you thinking about. this? Do you think that Newsom has. peaked too early by having so much of. the attention on him right now? How how. are you thinking about Newsom's. inevitable presidential run? Well, it was interesting. He was on with. Dana Bash this weekend and he said that. his son doesn't want him to run for. president and that's weighing on him. and said we're too young, we want to. spend more time with you. So, that was. the first time he at least publicly.

expressed some concern from his family. and potentially gave himself a way out. We'll see if he's able to convince his. son. going forward. I don't look, did does he has he peaked. too early? Who knows? We don't even know. who's going to be in the field. Right? I. mean, we're so far away from from that. primary process. that. you know, we don't know. Is it better to. have grown a base and to have raised a. ton of money and to have your name ID.

really high and to have people. describing you as a frontrunner than the. opposite? Sure. I mean, who wants to be. the the other position? So, do I think. Gavin Newsom. really helped himself in the last year? He's going to be kind of everywhere in. the next week or two on his book tour in. cities interacting with people. A lot of. the book tour cities just happen to be. primary states. It's interesting how. that works. He's going to be on stage with a lot of. folks doing, you know, podcasts like. this one. and basically every single Democratic.

place you could have and his message is. going to be in the next two weeks. probably to what? 150 million people? I mean, if you think. about all the different shows and add. them all up and he's doing you and he's. doing Midas Touch and he's doing all. these other places and he'll be on all. the the network shows. I mean, it's. going to be Gavin Newsom all Gavin. Newsom all the time. >> Right. And I don't know how many. governors even the governors that are. thinking about running for president. would be that in demand. Right. >> I mean, is there that much demand for. Josh Shapiro when he's on his book tour? Yeah. >> Not the same level right now, probably.

I mean, there's going to be a lot of. demand and I hope to talk to Josh. Shapiro and I think it'd be interesting. to learn more about him and all that, but I mean, Gavin Newsom is is. a bonafide political celebrity at a time. in our culture where people really like. celebrities. Um and he does seem to at. least right now um have that sort of. alpha. energy that I think a lot of people are. are hoping to see in the Democratic. side. Well,

you you rightly pointed out the fact. that he's at the top of these these. polls, but often times he's number two. and it's just behind Kamala Harris. You. know, you've obviously spoken to her. quite a bit. You've covered her for the. entirety of her career um and watched. this election as we all did uh where she. obviously lost to Trump, but but now. there's this open question as to whether. she's going to run again. Given what you've seen, is there any. indication one way or the other whether. you think that she's going to throw her. hat in the ring? And I ask because look, she obviously decided against running. for governor of California um and she.

you know, there is a particular. I I I I don't know how to say it other. than to say like a stink attached to you. when you've run for president once and. then lost and uh especially especially. in this last election cycle where I. think people view the politicians that. enabled Trump's rise um through a. particular lens, whether that's going to. have some impact on their decision to. run again or or more importantly on. Americans' decision to vote for them. again. So, what are you thinking as far.

as Kamala Harris is concerned? Well, she named her book 107 days for a. reason. Um in some ways that's like an. excuse in itself. >> Uh-huh. Right? This idea that I didn't. get to do a full run. And if I would. have done a full run, I would have done. it differently. And so, don't blame me. for this loss, blame the old guy. Right? I mean, that So, there's some of the rationale to say, don't think of me like the other. Democratic nominees who lost. Democratic. Party doesn't like to go back to losers. Republicans traditionally have far more.

often and given people a second chance. that run or even gone for the nomination. and given them in the in the. Democrats really don't do that. I mean, I don't think the Democrats have. renominated somebody since Adlai. Stevenson who lost. And that was before. the era of television, really. So, you know, that's the the the rub. against her. Positive for Kamala Harris. is she's, you know, politics is about. name ID. And she's got like a 100% name. ID. People know who she is.

The other big thing we don't know, Brian, is we don't know what the order. of the primary states are going to be. yet. The Democratic Party still trying. to figure that out. And if, say, South. Carolina goes first, that's a huge boost. to Kamala Harris where black women are. the most important part of that voting. block. So, if it's like Nevada going first or. North Carolina going first or Michigan. going first or that could really change. up the the game for her. And what are. they going to do about New Hampshire,

which might be a state that doesn't do. as well. So, I think those are open questions. In. terms of her not running for governor, she didn't run for governor because she. doesn't want to be governor. But you. know what she does want to be? >> [snorts]. >> She wants to be president, which is why. she ran for president. And then she ran. for vice president. And then she ran for. president again because [laughter] she. wants to be president. So, do I think. that knowing Kamala Harris, if she sees. a clear path or even a almost clear path. to run, will she run? Yes. If she really.

doesn't see a path, uh is there a possibility where she. says, "I don't want to be embarrassed. and I don't need that shit." and she. steps out? That's also very much a real. possibility. Well, it'll be interesting. to see uh what happens over these next. few months as we head toward midterms, then of course uh. >> Yeah, but it's interesting also, Brian, that this week, you know, Gavin Newsom. is going to be on the road doing this. book tour as we just mentioned. You know. who else is on the road this week? Kamala Harris uh is going to be doing. speaking engagements and and stuff on.

stage with different people in different. states all around the country all week, which she timed just in time for Gavin. Newsom's book book launch. Yeah, so. we're going to see a lot of like uh it's. going to be a lot of people trying to. counter program a lot of other people um. as they jockey for position right now um. both in '26 and '28. Uh I know that. you're covering all of it. So, for folks. who are watching and listening right. now, where can they see and hear more. from you? Yeah, so you can watch our. news show, The Story Is, on CNN. Uh it's. 9:00 to 11:00 p.m. on the West Coast,

midnight to 2:00 a.m. on the East Coast. You can also check out. youtube.com/alexmichelson. Um that's where a lot of my videos are. We have a really interesting interview. recently with Bernie Sanders. We had an. interesting interview with Bill Maher. that got a lot of attention. And best of. all, our recent debates featuring Brian. Tyler Cohen and our conversation about. his amazing interview with Barack Obama, which was the biggest interview of the. year. So, congratulations to you on. that. Well, I appreciate it. I'm going. to throw the link to your YouTube. channel right here on the screen and for.

everybody who's watching and listening. right now, highly highly highly. recommend that you subscribe to Alex's. YouTube channel. Um this way you can. catch all of those interviews, whether. it's with Bernie Sanders or any other. candidates, both left and right. Uh. you're one of the few people that's able. to to speak to everybody, which is why I. think the show is particularly. interesting. >> Yeah. Well, thank you. And so, people. can check out we did an interview about. your Obama interview, which people can. watch there. The other thing they can. watch is this recent debate you did with. Katie Zachariah, which got a lot of. attention all over the world. And. interestingly, after that debate, Katie.

Zaharia was named as the new. spokesperson for the Department of. Homeland Security. So, you can get a. sense of who's coming to that department. as well if you if you check that out. >> What was particularly interesting about. that was I remember during the show like. asking her I think were we having a. debate about about about ICE? Was that. what it was? About where she was. defending defending what happened with. these ICE agents? Was that what it was? >> I think that was the previous debate. that we had. But yes, we talked about. that with her.

>> There there was a point where I asked. her like or maybe it was Epstein, I'm. not sure. The Obama ape video. >> That's what it was. That's what it was. It was the Obama ape video and I asked. her like. why like you don't have to do this. Like. you don't have to debase yourself like. this for Donald Trump. But apparently. she did and apparently [laughter] it. worked it worked out because she got a. job as spokesperson for DHS, which I I. would imagine seems like the single most. politically toxic job on earth right. now. But lo and behold, they they. clearly like what they saw. When I asked. her when I asked her why you know why.

she was doing this, inherent in that was. the was the fact that you know a job was. waiting for her on the other side. And. so I guess I guess that's why she. >> We didn't know that. She's a very very. nice person. She's very sweet to to both of us. So, congratulations to her. Obviously that's. a big deal for her to be in that in that. position. But. it was interesting to see to see that. And now she's going to be in a big big. powerful role. As were you. And then a. week later after we debate Obama's apes, you're interviewing Obama talking to him.

about that video. And then the the video. that goes around the world about the. aliens which you've now made a thing. So, when the X-Files are released, it's. all going to be because of you. Yeah, well, you know, just. >> [laughter]. >> it's just one one more thing. I'm I'm. just lying here. Just just just. >> more important than the No Lie Podcast. Changing the world not only this planet. but beyond. >> That's it. Perfectly put. We'll leave it. there. Again, I'm going to put the link. to Alex's YouTube channel right here on. the screen and also in the post. description. If you're not yet. subscribed, please go ahead and hit the. subscribe button. Alex, as always,

thanks for the time. Thanks, Brian. >> [music].