Trump gets what he DESERVES over new enemies list

You likely know by now that I was added. to Donald Trump's media offenders list. Basically an enemies list for content. creators. You likely also know that I. was joined on that list by David Pakman. who is a fellow content creator, a. friend of mine, and someone who's been. in this space for well over 10 years, certainly longer than I have. I sat down. with David Pakman to discuss that list, our inclusion on it, and what it means. in this space that there is an enemies. list in the first place. So, I'm going. to throw to that interview right now. A. quick reminder that if you want to. support our work in this independent. media space even despite Trump's attacks.

and his efforts to quell us into. submission, the best way to do that is. to subscribe to both of our channels. I'm going to put those links in the post. description of this video. Here's the. interview with David Pakman. David, how. was your weekend in the immediate. aftermath of finding out that you were. on this list? >> You know, a lot of people know that this. is a big deal, but not everybody is. totally. keyed in to exactly what it means. So, I. got a lot of very concerned messages. from different people who were. understand They know that there's a.

problem here. They know this is an. attack on the First Amendment. They know. this is something to be very worried. about, but they didn't know if this. means like am I going to jail tomorrow? Do I immediately need a lawyer? Might. the police show up? Um, so it was I. mean, I think the good thing is there. are a lot of people that understand that. this is a direct attack on the only. profession that is mentioned in the. Constitution. And I think that even if. the MAGA people kind of have kind of. said we don't care about that anymore, there are a lot of people that do.

>> I think I think this feels different. from a lot of the other attacks that. we've seen Trump make. And And he's kind. of gone one by one, right? We've seen. him attack law firms. We've seen him. attack universities. We've seen him. attack uh legacy media outlets, tech. CEOs. I mean, just the list goes on and. on and on. Comedians have have been uh. the latest target of his ire. But something that I noticed pretty. quickly. with his attacks on content creators was. the extent to which folks in this space. really wore it as a badge of honor. I.

cannot tell you how many people have. approached me, messaged me, called me, texted me, and told me. that they wish they can get on this. list. How do they get on this list? That. would be the best thing for them. And I. think if we're able to neutralize these. attacks. and show him and show everybody in this. White House that this is not something. that's going to that's going to chill. speech or kind of suppress our voices or. allow him to to you know quell us into. submission that if we're instead able to.

capitalize off of this and grow our. platforms off of this and redouble our. efforts off of this and make our voices. even louder, then this shows that like. okay, maybe this isn't is not something. I'm going to be able to deploy with any. effectiveness. And and that's kind of. different from the rest of this whole. ecosystem because we have seen a lot of. the rest of the ecosystem with the rest. of the people that he's attacked because. we did see so much capitulation. And all. that did in my opinion was send a. message to Trump himself that oh, it's.

this is how easy it is to get law firms. to bend over backwards for me. This is. how easy it is to get major media. conglomerates to pay me millions and. millions of dollars. I'm going to. do it all day. I'm going to do it. tomorrow. And I'll go after the same. people again and again and again because. they didn't buy themselves any goodwill. with Trump. All they did was show him. how weak they are. And so my goal here. is to make this the complete opposite to. make it so that every time you put. another content creator on that list, it. is just the best thing that could have.

happened to that person and it grows. their platform, elevates their voice, and makes the same people that Trump was. looking to to quiet. all the louder in their efforts to. oppose this administration. I don't know. if you've seen the same thing from your. vantage. >> I have and it is you know, there's one. thing about this. And listen, we can. talk about I've already had some lawyers. First Amendment lawyers, talk to me and. say, "Listen, if they were going to take. a next step, here's what it would be. And here's sort of like what you might. incur as far as legal expenses, but.

depending on jurisdiction, we have a way. to kind of There's that side of it, but. step away from that for a second. There is an incredible change, even if. you go back to the last year of the. Trump adminis- of the first uh Trump. administration, where the proof that. independent media. is doing something is that this list. exists, because even as hostile as this. administration was at the end of Trump's. first term, and we saw what happened to. Jim Acosta, and we saw other examples,

there was no real thought that the we. were going to be on any list. And when. Trump was when Trump won and when he was. being sworn in, I remember talking to. you, and I did a Substack live with. Aaron Parnas and so many other people. And everybody had a feeling something is. going to touch independent media. And we. just didn't know exactly when or how. And I see it as proof of concept that we. are making a difference, because it's. You know, if someone with no followers. on Twitter responds to you, you don't. put them on a list at whitehouse.gov,

right? And so the fact that the list. exists, to me, is proof that we're. making a difference here. >> Just a quick note here to say that if. you appreciate my work, which is and. always will be 100% free, a small ask is. if you could please pre-order my new. book, The Day After, which explores how. Democrats must finally wield power if. they're fortunate enough to get it back. I'll also be on tour in DC, New York, Chicago, San Francisco, and LA in July. You can grab tickets to the tour, and. you can pre-order the book at the same. link, which I'll put on the screen and. in the post description of this video.

Again, I'll never paywall a single piece. of content, but this is the one time. that I'll ask for some support for a. book that I think really meets this. moment. Thanks so much. >> Yeah, I I I completely agree. I mean, look, I think that if nothing else, the. fact that Trump is starting to compile. an enemies list of content creators is a. testament to his weakness, his overall. weakness. This is not something that. you're that you do if you're acting from. a position of strength. It's not. something that you do if you think that. you're effective, if you're being. effective. When you start to target these people.

us included, I think the goal here is to. try and chill us into submission. It's. to show us like oh oh, now you're on. this official list. Now maybe you'll. think twice about the next time that you. speak out. You don't need to do that if. your presidency is going well. Obviously, we've seen the extent to. which you know he's been flailing and. and it's all an unforced error. It's all. owed entirely to him. It's this guy's. decision to have come into office after. having promised that he would focus on. lowering costs and and lowering rent and. housing and food, groceries that it.

grocery it's an old word. You probably. don't remember it, but it's it's. >> know it actually. I was new to Yeah. >> That doesn't surprise me at all. I. usually put them on the Davenport, but. yeah, we can talk about that later. Um. and instead this guy comes into office. immediately launches a trade war that. raises the cost of everything, immediately cuts health care that. obviously doesn't help people with their. costs, cuts food assistance, starts a. war that he promised he would never. start which raises the cost of gas to. nearly its highest point ever, doubles. down on covering up the Epstein files.

This is all owed entirely to his own. actions. And so that's the bizarre part. of all of this. It's like we're. effective because we're calling out. what's happening, but at the same time. instead of spending all of this energy. and expending these resources trying to. quell us into submission there is. another avenue and that's just to do the. things that he promised to do on the. campaign trail, but he's just so. incapable of holding true to his own. promises. And so instead he's going to. act solely in the benefit of himself and. his family and cross the Oval Office in. gold, build himself an arch and a.

ballroom and retrofit a Qatari jet to. the tune of a billion dollars and raise. his own net worth 4 billion dollars. He'll do all of those things because he. can't help but not do them and instead. sick his underlings on people like us. because that's the only other option. Like God forbid he actually governs in a. way that he campaigned on. He's just not. capable. >> I think one other aspect to this is. that, you know, he's done a fair bit of. going after corporate and legacy media. To some extent successfully when you. think about the capitulation on like the.

Stephanopoulos 16 million and these. examples. But one of the things I think. is interesting is trust in legacy and. corporate media for better or worse is. pretty low. There are a lot of people on. both sides of the political spectrum. that don't really have the trust in. corporate media that they used to. I. think one of the things that scares the. administration about the independent. space is that we have a different sort. of relationship with our with our. audiences. We're not whichever guy or. gal is on the expensive set today, and.

they're kind of all interchangeable. There's a relationship that implies a. different level of trust, and I think. that that's something that they are. cognizant of because why else would this. list exist? Yeah. >> It's also the one institution, and I'll. I'll call I'll call independent media an. institution just for ease of discussing. it, >> Yeah. Where. >> we can't be leveraged by the federal. government. Like Trump is able to. exercise power over the Washington Post.

because its owner, Amazon, has, you. know, Jeff Bezos has you know, the. government has contracts with AWS, Amazon Web Services. Um also needs approvals for, you know, his his rocket ship company. I mean, Elon. owns Twitter, has relationships with the. federal government. CNN is these these. all of these news outlets are owned by. these major media conglomerates because. we've seen so much consolidation, but it. allows the government to to exercise its. influence because otherwise they're not.

going to get mergers approved. They're. not going to get the the FCC approval. that they need for, you know, Tech and. Nexstar to to merge and ABC relies on. that to get their local broadcasting. across the country. And so the the. federal government is always able to be. effective at putting its thumb on the. scale by virtue of the sheer size. And. so it's it's it's this interesting. paradox where you think that these. institutions, these legacy media. institutions are so big that they can. actually withstand pressure from the. federal government, but it is it is.

expressly because they are so big that. they're so susceptible to pressure by. the federal government. And like we. don't have to deal with that. I'm owned. by nobody. I'm 100% reader and viewer. supported. And so if I want to say. something, I'm solely accountable to the people who. subscribe and that's it. And so there's. no pressure that the federal government. can exert over what I do and what I say. And and you're in the exact same boat. And I think that that is a difficult. position because the Trump. administration has made such a.

has made such a concerted effort to use. to use um. the the the tools at their disposal. to influence and pressure all of these. major conglomerates to do whatever they. want. And and even worse, these. conglomerates have been so willing to. capitulate at every turn. But this is. the one place where they just don't have. the ability to do that. And so they only. can lean on us with like with these with. these attacks on on the First Amendment.

or just trying to scare us or chill us. into submission. >> And one of the things that's kind of. interesting is. we if I got sued for a billion dollars. and was given the opportunity to settle. for 16 million, that's not something. that we can go, "Yeah, let's do that. That sounds good.". >> Totally. So to to the for the better or. worse of it, um and not only to mention because our. reputations ride on these circumstances. differently than someone like a. Paramount or whoever who's thinking, "Well, we've got a multi-billion dollar.

merger and the 16 million is small. potatoes compared to For us it would. just be like, "No, no, no. This is. constitutionally protected speech. It is. not defamatory. This is quite literally. protected." The only choice we would. have is to fight this thing to the very. end. And that I think is also very. different. >> Yeah, I mean it's you don't realize how. dangerous it is to have all that. funding. Like if you are a CBS or an ABC. News or a Meta or a Washington Post, any. of these institutions that have settled.

with Trump in the past, having that kind. of cash disposable not only shows Trump. that you have it and so he can go for. it, but when you inevitably settle. because you have the ability to do so, it it sends the message to him like. again, this Look how easy this is. We don't have that option and so the. only option is to fight. And frankly, thank God because because these are easy. battles to win. Like there's no world in. which ABC should have settled with. Trump. There's no world in which CBS. should have settled with Trump. The ABC.

lawsuit was over George Stephanopoulos. discussing the fact that a judge had had. said that. technically by by by virtue of the. definition of rape in New York, that Donald Trump had was an adjudicated. rapist. by virtue of the words that the judge. said. Now he said it clumsily and I. think he said that the judge found Trump. liable for sexual assault or for rape. I'm not I'm not sure. But in any case, it was it was certainly there was no. malice intended. It was just a.

misreading of a pretty technical. definition. Something that would have. gotten thrown out of court in a New York. minute if this thing was actually. challenged. But ABC viewed this as a way. to just kind of curry some favor with. Trump, to buy some favor with him and so. they just paid it. And that's a crazy. thing to do. Um. not just because because it's such it's. such a laughable case, but again, because it emboldens Trump to think, "Oh, look how easy it is to to dominate. all of my enemies." And by the way, it's. not like Trump stopped attacking ABC.

News after that. It's not like he said, "Okay, now now we're buds. Now it's Now. it's you and you and me versus the. world." He was like, "Look how Look how. weak these people are. Look how easy it. is for me to own these people. All I. have to do is say I'm going to sue them. and boom, I got 16 million bucks in my. pocket. Let's do it again and again and. again.". Um and you're right, we don't have that. and so it's not as easy as for us to say. it, but it also sends a message to Trump. that, "Okay, this is a This is a fight. that we're going to have to engage in. because we have no choice. And and this. is a fight you're going to lose because. these are just direct attacks on the.

First Amendment. They're so frivolous. and and no judge would allow this to. stand.". >> One of the things that is a little bit. scary has been some of the reaction from. some of the MAGAs I've been hearing from. and the context for this is. I've said for a long time, I don't want. to engage in these debates about. theoretical principles with a lot of. these people because as soon as it's. inconvenient, they abandon the. principles. >> We are against business regulation. We. are for liberty. We are for this, that, the other thing. And right now, if you.

are genuinely a conservative First. Amendment whatever, you should be. saying, "David Bryan, I may disagree. with what you guys say, but there's no. question that this is a an attack. It's. the government saying, 'Hey, we don't. like the speech of these people.'" Just. This is one message that I got. David, from a right-winger. "David, how do you feel that yourself. and your lover, Bryan Tyler Cohen, have. been added to the White House list, etc. etc. Where is like, 'Hey, um I disagree.

with what you say, but you have every. single right to say it and the. government going after you is a direct. violation of your free speech.' Like I. would respect some of these MAGAs if. they said that.". >> Yeah, I mean, look, that this was their. rally cry for years and years and years. They had a whole subcommittee on the. weaponization of government. They wanted. to talk about censorship and freedom of. speech for for as long as I can remember. that that the Democrats were were just. trying to quell our ability, quell your. abilities be able to say what you want. And look, Joe Biden never made an. enemies list of content creators. Joe.

Biden never sued a bunch of media. outlets. Joe Biden never went after and. tried to cancel comedians. Like the the. things that Donald Trump has done. really put on full display the extent to. which all of these purported principles. by these right-wingers were window. dressing. It was just something for them. to complain about, but once they're. abstract principles were actually. challenged, it became clear that they. didn't care about this stuff. It was. just It was just something for them to. say. It was just a bumper sticker that. looked nice, but but that they didn't. actually have any intention of adhering.

to once push came to shove. >> One of the things that has been kind of. floated as a hidden way, like if one of. us gets sued for defamation, that's very. clear, right? Like this is a lawsuit, here's what's in the lawsuit, we come to. our audiences, we tell them. One of the. scarier possibilities, and I hope that. the platforms wouldn't wouldn't budge on. this, is that pressure is applied to. some of the platforms we're on, which as. I've said before, we're kind of. publishing on rented ground in a sense. that it's platforms that are that are.

putting our content on there, allowing. it, algorithmically distributing it to a. degree. Have you thought at all about how likely. you think that is a tactic that the. Trump administration might employ to. quietly try to kneecap us? >> Yes. I mean, I've always tried to diversify because I. know that I'm on on rented ground. anyway. Like I And I've seen the. fluctuations, and I'm sure you have too. I mean, we've spoken about them. We've. seen viewership go up and down on on on.

YouTube, certainly. Um I've watched it. go up and down on Facebook. I've. watched, you know, pretty meteoric. growth on Twitter until the day that. Elon bought it, and I'm still at the. exact same number of followers. as the day Elon bought it. So, like that. stopped growth uh completely. And so and so I I I know that I don't. own any of these platforms. I think. what's what's great about having our. newsletter and being on Substack is that. we have the ability to reach people. directly if and and perhaps when.

Trump is effective at getting these. social media platforms to suppress our. voices. And so I would just ask for. anybody who is not yet subscribed to to. my and David's channels and our. substacks. If you do that, that's a. great way for us to be able to reach you. directly in the event that that we're. not able to reach you on any other. platform. This is the most direct way of. being able to talk to folks. I know that. we're going to post this. far and wide, but but we'll we'll. include in the post description our.

links to our substacks because again, that's the best way to be able to reach. for us to reach you directly in the. event that that happens. But yeah, I. mean look, that's the nature of the. beast and it's certainly the nature of. the beast during an administration where. they have been shown where they've been. proven to to apply pressure to any of. these companies to get what they want. And I'm sure that, you know, Google has some business in front of the. federal government where they can say, "Hey, we have a list of media offenders. and be a real shame if you lost out on.

XYZ because these people are able to. still proliferate on your platform. Just. something to think about, you know?" I. mean these are the mob tactics that the. Trump administration employs. And so I. wouldn't be surprised in the slightest. if if that's the if that's the route. they go. But you know, I'm actually. I think I think. I'm actually not. especially worried that that will. happen, perhaps naively. I'm using this. opportunity as a moment. to do again what I think so few of the.

other institutions that have been. attacked have done, which is to you. know, make sure that I'm twice as loud. Like. I remember when when Paul Weiss, which. was one of the law firms that. capitulated, first um, decided to do so. in deference to the Trump. administration. And I And I was so mad. And it's not like I don't understand why. they did it. Um, it's certainly easier, it's certainly more financially. beneficial for them to do it. Um, and. and your job is your job. Their job is. not to think about the broader the.

safety of the broader ecosystem, the. safety of of other lawyers and other law. firms. And so I get all of that. logically, but I was still so mad. because in effect they make everybody. less safe when they capitulate. Because. again, it sends a message to Trump that. that he can do whatever he wants with. impunity. And and and and, uh, all of. these other, you know, major entities. will capitulate. And so I just want to. use this opportunity right now, uh, while the administration is going after. us, to just say like, great, go after. us. I'll use I'll use my my 15 minutes that.

I have right now to just show that it is. a badge of honor, again, to to get other people interested. in getting on this same list. And and to. show him like, this is a space where. your pressure, your attempts to pressure. us are not going to work. And I want him. to put other content creators on that. list. And frankly, other content. creators want to be put on that list. Um, and and I I, you know, that that's. my goal. Could could bad things happen? Could the. Googles of the world, um, you know, lean on us a little bit or or.

suppress our voices in deference to this. administration? Of course. But I think. we have a rare opportunity where as. we're in the spotlight right now to send. a message, uh, to this administration. that like, while that might have worked, uh, with these law firms and. universities and tech CEOs, all of whom. need something from Trump, we don't need. anything from him. It's not going to. work here. And, uh, and he continues to. amplify the profiles of people in this. space at his own peril. >> The other thing that I think is. tangentially related, but is part of the.

bigger picture, is that for all of the. talk about how big and strong and alpha, like we all talk about it, you know, they they they claim to be. Um the last. four days have really been an exercise. in snowflake dumb in the sense that they. create this list going after people with. disproportionately little power compared. to the federal government, but the. Kristen Welker interview I'm thinking. I. mean, follow-up questions got him to step on a. microphone and walk out of an interview, and we have a completely warped sense of.

what to what journalism really should. be. And I was telling my audience, you. know, in Arge I watch a lot of. Argentinian news and politics, this sort. of tough questioning of elected. officials is expected. If If you don't. do what Kristen Welker attempted to do. before Trump ran away, there's like a. what are you doing? Are you do Are you. even doing your job? But here's the key. difference also. The elected officials expect it and. they're ready for it. So many elected. officials, and I don't want to make it. partisan like Trump did it. Sometimes. Democratic elected officials will do it.

with me where we hear like, "Hey, they. didn't like some of your questions.". Some The elected officials also expect. that there is going to be serious. journalism done, and there isn't an. expectation that you go on and you get a. softball interview. All of this reeks of. what they call beta behavior, not terms. that I use, but what they would call it. And this is a bigger problem, I think. >> It It It really puts the hypocrisy on. full display. I mean, I was just just. speaking a few minutes ago about like, you know, this this idea of when their. principles are challenged, they're not. actually going to stand behind any of.

them. But you But you're exactly right. I mean, his whole thing is that he's a. tough guy, a strong man, right? And And. you see these these instances where. any pushback, like the mildest pushback, "Hey, what's the proof of this election. fraud that you keep talking about?" will. send him into a tailspin. And so, again, this is more It's It's window dressing. It's the veneer of of toughness when in. reality this guy is as fragile a person. that as we've ever seen. And again, him. putting us on this list is a testament.

to that. I think it was a miscalculation. because all it's doing is drawing more. attention to to the work that we do, but. I I do think that there's a sense even. among like these tough guy manosphere. podcasters that when you see that and. and you you know, you see Kristen Welker. questioning him and him he is so. incapable of being able to just answer a. simple question. I mean, it's. embarrassing and if your whole reason. for for being on the Trump train was. like this guy is strong compared to.

Democrats collective weakness and like. this is what it looks like in the in the. rare instance that he actually has to. face challenging questions. I don't know. how your entire worldview especially as. it pertains to Trump and Maga doesn't. immediately collapse because what's the. foundation of it? That guy? The guy who. can't give a single modicum of proof. about the election fraud that he keeps. claiming is occurring which by the way, just as a quick aside, like the notion. that there's election fraud because. Spencer Pratt is not winning the LA.

mayoral race. Like. >> [laughter]. >> this is this is a it's like the. the most liberal state it's like the. liberal bastion of America and you're. upset that Spencer Pratt is not going to. be the mayor of this city. Like it is it. is not only completely baseless as it. relates to the. to the election theft lies. It's also. just devoid of any semblance of common. sense. Why pick this city, Los Angeles, again, the cradle of progressivism in. America as as the hill to die on where.

because Spencer Pratt is not going to. win the mayor or advance to the runoff. for the mayor's race. >> Not to mention he over performed the. polls. Like it it's not even a situation. where they could go, "Well, we thought. he was polling 25 and he got six." He. over performed the polls because some of. those lower candidates who were polling. three, four essentially got zero. And so. he actually did better than was. expected. It just wasn't enough to win, obviously. Listen, Brian, it is a new. it's it's a a whole new era, I believe. at this point for independent media. We've got important elections coming up. As you mentioned, we really only own our.

data on Substack. And so, I do encourage. people we don't know what will happen. with other platforms. Hopefully, nothing, but we'll be able to. communicate with people if they are. subscribers on Substack. So, I encourage. everybody to do that. Subscribe to. Brian. And I won't take up more of your. time from a very busy day. I'm sure it's. busy every day like it is with me. I. have I have a lot of media offending to. do. >> Yes. >> Exactly. I'm sure you do as well. I just. want to thank everybody here not just.

for tuning in and taking some time out. of your day, but also supporting the. work that we do as independent creators. You know, we don't have like a major. media conglomerate behind us if bad. things happen or if we're threatened by. a federal government that has no. shortage of resources. So, really I. mean, it's it is it is everybody here's. support whether financial or or just. your eyeballs that that really makes. what we do possible. So, just wanted to. just give a shout out to everybody here. for especially in this moment backing.

backing the work that we do and showing. some support for for this space that I. think is especially important. >> 100% Brian, I'll talk to you soon. >> David, thanks so much. See you, man. >> All right, take care. Bye. >> [music].