Trump gets BAD NEWS over Epstein debacle

I'm joined now by the co-host of the. Pivot podcast, Cara Swisser. Cara, thanks so much for joining me. Thanks a lot. So, we have watched as this Epstein. situation has kind of bubbled over into. the surface. Um, I I think that in large. part Trump probably um took for granted. how seriously uh a giant faction of his. base, especially the online base, um um. took this and and so now I think he. thought he can like kind of skate. through and just kind of avoid uh. dealing with this whole situation. all. together. To what extent do you think.

that this is going to have a lasting uh. impact on his popularity with those. people versus, you know, the the usual. thing I think we expect from. Republicans, which is maybe a few days. of of some consternation, but ultimately. everybody comes back home. That's exactly what's going to happen. I. mean, the regular Republicans who are. just being quizzlings who who don't. really like what he's doing or don't. like a lot of things, but they're. fearful of him never believe this. So, it doesn't it wasn't really their. animating factor. So they'll just stay. the same. They'll stay cowardly and and.

acquiescent forever as long as it takes. until he doesn't have power and then. you'll see some differences which will. come. Um the the the other ones, the Roseanne. Bars, the Alex Jones, the Laura Loomers, those gang that gang is angry and they. expected a lot more from Cash Patel. especially and Dan Bonino who would go. on and on about this conspiracy theory. So these are the people that that put. these people on this almost sugar high. of conspiracy theories and now when. they're like oh actually they can't come.

off of it like they they're deep in the. hole and so I can see why they're. disappoint. they're they're also disappointed. Um. that said they never seem to blame Trump. for this. They're aiming at Gino and. Pam Bondi as if as if Pam Bondi has. shown herself to be like some some uh. neutral or independent figure. I mean, all of these people are completely under. the thumb of Donald Trump, right? Exactly. I mean, and also, she's. just been inept. I mean, the ineptitude. away from everything by putting these. binders out that didn't have anything in.

them and then saying she had a list cuz. she's such a thirsty person on Fox News. She's got to say something. She She. needs to shut up for a lawyer. She talks. too much. Um, one of the things uh she. she should have been doing was was. managing expectations here and or and. saying less. And in this case, you know, they just kind of come out with it in a. kind of random haphazard way, right? Rather than really preparing their group. for, look, we looked into it. This is. what it is. Let us show you. Let us walk.

through this. So, it's kind of a. ham-handed version of it. I mean, ultimately, I suspect they'll they'll go. along with Trump and the crazy ones will. will nurse anger quietly and it will. manifest later in a sort of a giant open. sore. Um because they and they'll not. know where to go because where are they. going to go? The once once Trump's gone, the Republicans, if they ever maintain. get back control of themselves, will not. have this group in there. They don't. want them. Um so, we'll see. I feel badly for.

Roseanne Bar today. What do you what do. you think it what do you think it says. more broadly about like the grifter. nature of somebody like Dan Bonino and. Cash Patel who who really predicated. their identities on serving this slop to. their audiences and now they are in. these unique positions to be able to. substantiate the very things that they. were saying for years and years and. years and they've and they've come up. short. I mean there was a clip on on uh. of um Cash Patel talking to somebody who. works at the Blaze. I can't remember who. it was. Uh, but this was in December of.

2023. And he was com he was saying that. Epstein's black book was was in the. hands of the FBI director. That he's. like the this is this goes right up to. the FBI director. That's the person who. has all the power here. Dude is the FBI director right now. Well, that's their problem. They always. do that. They're like, if only someone. was in power to do this. Like Trump. yesterday with, you know, I would have. done Doge differently. I was like, if. you were in charge and he was in charge. That's this is the one of their playbook. things. I mean, they've got to be.

hurting because this is the gang that. that um. first of all, they couldn't shoot. straight essentially, but they also. train these people to believe in this. deep state mentality. And then when it. gets out of control, it gets out of. control. I mean, they seem like Claudes. and charlatans. I mean, Dan Bon is a. charlatan really in in so many ways. He's probably arrested next week for. that, but he is. We could we could share a goolog. somewhere. Whatever. I don't whatever. Good luck, Dan. Um but uh uh you know I think this. is the problem is they predicated their.

success online success now if they can. spin up another once they leave here. they'll come up with another nonsensical. story you know alligators in the toilets. and Alcadra I don't know they just it h. you have to constantly be telling lies. and coming up with new lies to leave. behind the old lies and so that's the. problem the thing is this group it's. like soap opera they'll take any lie and. they'll move on to the next one um you. We'll see how much they split from. Trump. I mean, they're just terrible. people. So, they will continue to be.

hypocritical and calling them out is. kind of like saying, "Oh, look, the sky. is blue.". Building on this idea of of these people. splintering away from Trump. One avenue. that they might have is that Elon Musk. put forward this idea of starting a. third party and that is the America. Party. And so, how much political. capital do you think Elon has? And and I. guess the more serious question is his. goal is not to like launch the third. major political party in America. He. he's come out and said that he wants to.

just maybe pick off a few house seats. He wants to be a spoiler. He doesn't. want to create a party. He wants to be a. spoiler and he's just using that his. money and the name whatever to do so. I. think the problem is what does it stand. for, right? Like if it's sort of. libertarian light kind of thing, there's. not much call for that. It's a very. small group. If you look at any of the. of the cutting up of the um of the uh. electorate, there's this is a very small. group of people want to what he wants. But I don't know what he wants. They. haven't articulated. There's no person. it's built around except for him. So. what are his stances? Like I don't know.

pro mechanazi and. mechanazi. That's right. Well, I think. the hard part for me to reconcile is is. he did come in, he had full reign of. government. He could have done anything. Trump isn't looking into the weeds of. what he's doing. So Elon had full. control. And so he came in saying that. he wants to cut waste, fraud, and abuse. You have the Pentagon, which has failed. seven audits, staring you right in the. face, but you avoid that to go after. USAD, which is 1 half of 1% of the. budget and delivers soft power without. without um shooting a single bullet.

You've got the CFPB, which which helps. um uh Americans who've been defrauded by. by banks. You go after all of these. agencies that regulate Elon or have. enforcement action over Elon and you. ignore the giant elephant in the room. And it goes to show that at the end of. the day, this was never about waste, fraud, and abuse. This was about helping. Elon's bottom line. Yeah. Well, you just said it. That's it. That's it. He was going after things. that um helped him. He was he was very. irritated over regulators, especially. during co as I when we were speaking a. little too much. It was a little. dramatic and it was a little over the.

top. But, you know, he definitely. thought that there was no need for. regulators. and when he tangled with. before that with the SEC over some of. the statements he made like 420 it's 420. or whatever. Um so he's always been sort of like that. and in a lot of ways he has a point. about some of it like some of it is. ownorous. If you've ever opened a small. business, you know what it takes to like. get all these silly placards you have to. put up and you know even even Zoron. Mandani did a whole thing of $8 halal. and a lot of it was about permitting.

right that was what that so there is. some argument to be made about making. government smoother and services better. and cheaper and there is a lot of um I. would say more waste than fraud I. suspect um and not just waste it's just. inefficient but at the same time a lot. of government things can't be made. efficient the companies can. And by the. way, not every one of his companies is. as efficient as could be. They're always. seeking more efficiency. Everyone is so. surprised by the hypocrisy. All of these. people, yeah, just want to make money. They're for. there for the shareholders, which is.

largely themselves in a lot of ways. Um. or their increasing power or their. ability to push back from regulation, which is why you see Mark Zuckerberg and. Jeff Bezos there. You think they like. Trump? M they mean they can say that. he's kind of funnier than Biden, but. that's that's a low bar. He is, but you. know, do you think uh do you think that Musk. and Trump reconcile given the fact that. their that their fates are so. intertwined and their and the monetary. incentives for them to do so are so. high.

What's the Trump's doing just fine. Griffin all the way away because. he's doubled his net worth in the last. like two months. So. the only thing is look, Trump could do. more harm to Musk than vice versa. clearly around Starlink, around X, around everything about the where AI. spoils are going, Tik Tok, like lots of. things. That said, he's got a limited. time period here. If he loses the. midterms, it's over for Trump, right? So, um, so he could do, but he could do. a lot of harm to Musk in so many NASA,

lots of things. Musk has has also an. ability to make a mess. What if he's. keeping score on the crypto stuff? would. who he could really, you know, he has. means to make the Trump's family. especially be be very uncomfortable. Who. knows if he bought the Epstein files. I. don't know. Like I don't know. Maybe. there are files. Maybe there are videos. I I'd be surprised if there weren't. given Jeffrey Epstein's behavior, right? I mean, that's natural. I don't know if. there are, but if there are, he could.

buy them, right? So I the only thing. about the Epste thing is like they would. have come out by now, wouldn't they. have? But maybe not. I don't know, maybe, who knows? Um, so I think, you. know, Musk is crazy enough to do. something crazy, right? And and he has. the means to do so. And so that's a. little different than a Michael Con or. or any of the people that have tangled. with Trump. This guy is ready, willing, and able to blow up rockets. And so. that's where you go. And you know, the. when he was fighting with Trump. initially, I predicted he would, and.

then afterwards he apologized. Everyone's like, "Oh, he's apologized.". The first thing I said is, "This is not. sticking. This guy is like freaking. Vuvius. There's no only because I had. listened to him talk about deficits for. years." And so I'm like, "No, no, this. is right at the heart of his problem. with the government is the deficits." He. But again, like he had the opportunity. to actually do something and he looked. out for himself. Did he did he have the There was He was. also in the middle of like a knife fight. with all the Trump people. Susie Wilds. really did a number. I mean, I'm sorry. They always That's clearly who took him.

down. Took him out. Um but um all of. them did. Like all of them did. Uh cuz. they're all, you know, those kind of. swamp creatures. But um but they I I. think sure he could have done something, but he was it was in his interest not to. then and now it's in his interest to do. so. So Elon will do whatever is in his. interest to do so. And and um and so he. he is right about EV credits. He is. right about we should be promoting EVs. versus fossil fuels. There's a number of.

things where he's 100% correct in terms. of fiscal responsibility. Yeah. And you know, it's interesting because. he did oppose it even though it benefits. him as a billionaire. So there is a a. modeicum of he actually believes this. Well, I I I think he I mean he opposed. that provision if he if he could do what. he did back before Trump even took. office in December December of 2024. where he was able to extract that China. provision um from from the the budget. bill that was working its way through. before Trump was even uh before Trump.

was even uh sworn in. He was able to to. you know put so much pressure on. Republicans that they took that. provision out. So it's not that he that. he's looking to sink the entire bill. because he doesn't want a tax cut for. himself. just wants he wants everything. He wants his to have his cake and eat it. too. He wants every single provision to. benefit him. Speaking of cake, the problem with the. bill and I think it'll be a problem for. Democrats messaging as I just did really. had Kristen Sulttus Anderson on who's a. Republican pollster is that it's a. cheesecake factory of a bill. Which part. do you want to hit? It's like it's a. it's a dessert topping. It's a floor.

wax. It's a it's a tax bill. It's a it's. a Medicaid reform bill. It's a Medicaid. cut bill. Like, so there's so much in. there. And they pulled a lot out. by the. way, the the the the little lands they. were going to sell and this and that. They'll get back to that, by the way. Yeah. Um but you know, it'll be the problem is. it how to attack it. What's the proper. what it's such a ridiculous cheesecake. factory of a of a of a um of a bill as. Christine calls it. Um you had mentioned, you know, the. Zuckerbergs of of the world and how.

they'll say whatever they need to say. and we've seen that to a broader degree. with regard to how these media outlets. are capitulating to Trump. The latest to. do so was CBS and Paramount um for for. um. editing for time and interview on. television, which has been standard. practice forever. And yet they used any. opportunity they could to settle because. they have this uh this Sky Dance merger. that's pending. And so can I have your. reaction just more broadly. to to I'm with the whole 60 Minutes. team. I mean, Steve Croft was just on.

John Stewart. It's a shakeddown. It's a. shakeddown is all it is. Um and they they wanted to do the deal. Trump has said, "I'll hold it up." What. are you going to do? I mean, they just. sit there and they go, "Huh, if we. settle now, in some cases, cases are. settled as a nuisance. It's a nuisance. lawsuit." And the nuisance is between. Cherry Redstone and her 2.4 billion or. whatever she's getting. The thing is, the price of this thing has gone down a. lot. She's lost quite a few billion by. just waiting to do this. She should have. done it during the Biden administration, by the way. Um because it would have.

been a higher price and and she wouldn't. have had this this situation going on. Um so she's stuck in she's stuck in the. in having it passed. If it doesn't, it's. a disaster for Paramount if it doesn't. happen. So she gets you it'll go from. two billion to 1 billion to keep going. down and it'll be sold for parts. And so. what do you make more broadly of this. idea though that like these are the. these are these purported defenders of. democracy? Like you've got Washington. Post, democracy dies in darkness. You've. got all of these news networks, the the.

esteemed fourth estate. And when they. have the opportunity, like they can they. can, you know, stand behind these flashy. slogans when none of them are. challenged. But the moment they're. actually challenged, the fact that they. are folding one by one, we've seen ABC. News. We've seen uh um we've seen CBS. and Paramount in this scenario. We've. seen the LA Times. We've seen the. Washington Post. And so like I mean, isn't there some major how do none of. these people who work in the news. business recognize the damage of the. People don't have control over this. Let's be clear. I mean, the only thing. they can do is quit, right? And two of. them did at uh at CBS. Two big jobs.

They quit big jobs. And uh longtime. jobs, by the way, Mandy McMahon and the. other guy, Bill, whatever his name is. Um so, they quit. Like, there's no power. by the journalists. They can get all. angry and stamp their feet, but you. know, you're talking about Jerry. Redstone and Jeff Bezos and. all of them. They don't care. They don't. care. I keep This is something I've told. you a million. don't care. They care. about money. They care about getting. theirs. And they they don't like media.

in particular. You know, whenever one of. them would say that to me, I'm like, "Get the out of here. Get get the. out of here." Like, they don't like. there there's there's very few of them. right now. I would say Lorraine Powell. Jobs at the Atlantic. She's getting a. lot of incoming over the work that Jeff. Goldberg is is is helming. Um she's. sticking to it, it looks like. Um we'll. see. I mean, if she gets enough. pressure, I suppose, but they can't. pressure her as much, right? She's super. rich and she doesn't have a lot of. pressure points. But if they did, they. would push them push on them. But, you.

know, uh, you know, there's certain. owners that are better than others, right? And there's owners that are okay. That's been the history of media. And. then there's, uh, owners like Katherryn. Graham of the Washington Post who was, you know, she's one of, she was wealthy. She was in society. She could have gone. a totally different direction. And. because she's a baller, she did the. right thing because she cared. But she. certainly could have gone in a very. different direction than she did. And. the only thing to do for the media pe. people is quit, right? And that's why I.

own all my stuff. I'm like, "Oo, let me. consult my CEO, Cara Swisser." Oh, yes. I feel like, you know, like, you know, whatever. You. just say these people own these people. want Sherry Redstone wants her. I know. Sherry. I'm so disappointed in her. I. not that I thought that she was going to. be that a firm of supporter anyway. Um. but I think uh she wants hers I guess. just like Jeff Bezos. I mean Jeff Bezos. is the perfect example. He was very much. supportive of the Washington Post for. many years or just didn't do anything. and he got attacked in the first Trump.

administration and he said I'm not. having that happen again. And meanwhile. he's has a new relationship and he's. sort of changed or not well whatever. he's he's he's changed and so now he has. a different attitude towards this stuff. Do you think that that Okay. So you look. at a pos a situation like CBS where of. course they edited this interview for. time. Trump did the same thing. I mean. we're talking about the Epstein stuff. Fox literally edited the the the. question the line of questioning uh for. television that they gave him where they. were like are you going to release the. JFK files? Are you going to release I.

forget the whatever the other one. they didn't make a mistake. And then they said and then he said are. you going to release the the Epstein. files? And he goes he goes yeah yeah not. maybe not so much that one but they. edited that out. And so do you think. that there's a world in which Democrats. should, you know, sack up, start to grow. a spine and say, "Okay, if you're going. to if you're going to sue over that, why. don't we have anybody coming out and and. suing for for the same thing under the. Trump rule, the Trump president?". Well, I don't I think that this is a. this is a quick ride to nowhere, right? And this kind of stuff. And you know, I. think if Democrats engage in the we're. going to get her for bribery, they're.

not. They're just not. Look, they may, but for what? For what? What purpose is. just cuz you win? the same thing with. actually if they win the midterms. I. just did a good interview with uh Robert. Garcia who will be the head of the. oversight committee and it's very clear. they've got to look at the crypto scams. that the Trump family is doing. That's. very front and center and that means a. lot for all of the next president's. family, the next president's family. And. so that's important, but the plane. must we like I know a lot of liberals. want to go let's get them for that. It's.

like let's let's win. Let's not let's. like there's no there what is the what. will be the benefit from doing. that the best case scenario is the. crypto stuff which is really problematic. and corrupt and so be very careful about. you know I hate to tell it to all your. liberal watchers is you may not get. Donald Trump he may die with all this. money and not retribution and you're. going to have to live with it and hope. that somewhere he will right and so you.

know everyone was like now always go to. jail. Now he didn't. Right. Muller. It's Mueller time. Yeah. Just You may have to accept the. fact that this guy has squirreled out of. all manner of corruption and illegal. behavior, including um uh was it sexual. abuse? I want to say that correctly, right? Whatever. Um. you may have to accept that. I know. you're all going, "No, we can't." It's. like, what do you want to do? Do you. want to win or do you want to what? Like. try try to seek retribution against.

against this guy who's, you know, hopefully and Mandela could move along. Rest of us can in a lot of ways and I'm. not suggesting that because some of it. like especially the crypto stuff. absolutely should be investigated. It's. really squirrely and it allows foreign. entities to bribe our presidents. You. know that that we really do need to deal. with that no matter who the president. is. I mean even even as Donald Trump sits. down with the leaders of a few African. nations, they're all they know exactly I. mean it's so pathetic. They know exactly. how to how to give him what he how to.

give him the pats on the head that he's. looking for. or they're all offering. them the Nobel Peace Prize. I mean, it's. so sad the extent to which it's so easy. to game the president of the United. States. And and if the tables returned, if somebody was like if if somebody if. all it took to manipulate Joe Biden was. like, "Here's an ice cream cone." And. Joe Biden be like, "Oh, this is great. We're going to have to have to strike up. some great deals with your country with. Liberia." I mean, the right would lose. its collective mind. Yes. But you have to stop doing that. You know, I know Obama did that. Like, what if I did? Like, who cares? They're.

terrible. like like they're terrible. people. Like what do you want? You won't. do it because you're not a terrible. person. And so the issue is do you want. to be right or do you want to be. effective? Right? And you're right, but. it doesn't really matter. Like do you. want to be indignant or do you want to. be effective? You can be indignant, but. what what do you want? And I think. that's what Democrats have to start. thinking about what do we want like and. what which is power obviously and. getting bills that they like that the. Democrats like better. And if they spent. spend all their time um I did a really.

interesting interview with someone I. really admire Sarah McBride who gets. like so much incoming from those. terrible Nancy Mace and Margie. has only carried herself with class and. class says no says almost nothing about. it because you know what she was elected. by all the people of Delaware and. therefore that's how she behaves. if she. centered everything on her trans. identity, and I know a lot of trans. people think she should, she's not doing. her the job she was voted in for. And. so, one of the things she said, she wasn't being a she wasn't like.

compromising. What she was saying is, we're going to have to have imperfect. allies and you're going to have to. accept that, right? You're going to have. to forgive that. You know, I get a lot. of incoming cuz I used to like Elon. Musk. Well, too bad. He was. pretty fantastic back then and now. isn't. So we're going to have to like. really abandon the indignance although. it it definitely can power you to get to. things and yeah. and and be more I would I'm really. fascinated by Mandan maybe because he's.

a very jolly fella. He doesn't feel. retribution. It felt like the beginning of the the. first days of Kamala's campaign or. whatever and the entirety of Obama's. campaign to be honest. Right. And I think it's what if you if. you're going to if you're going to start. a war, you should dig two graves. It. just is. Yeah. Unfortunately, that's the situation. And. then later history will judge these. people and badly from Elon Musk or. Donald Trump or and we will know that. And I think we've got to like figure out.

what's effective to win the midterm. elections and then what are we going to. do for the American people? Like that's. to me is what we have to talk about. $25. minimum wage, right? I I met with a. senator last night and I was like, you. got to stop. Like stop just like what do. you want to do? Let me hear what you. want to do. And so I I for he was not I. would say he was not a Mandan he's a. Democrat but not a Mandani fan. Um and I. said why don't you watch these and I. gave him 10 videos and I was like you. need to see what he's doing here which. is much more effective than you know uh.

ringing your hands all the time. Well to that point and we'll finish off. with this. Who are you looking at? I. mean, we have we have a deep bench on. the left and we need a deep bench on the. left because because, you know, we as we. engage in what I very much hope will be. an entire cycle of generational change. and moving out the old guard, hopefully. eliminating the gerontocracy that has. completely enveloped the Democratic. party. Who's caught your eye? Um, especially as we head toward 20. Let's keep in mind 70 uh people in. Congress are over 70 years old or 80.

something like most of them are. Democrats. Like, let's be clear. 100%. Yeah. So, so one of the things I. think is important is people start to. look at people who are um they don't. have to be young necessarily by the way. They just have to be effective. And I. think the question is what what's really. a problem is like are we going to be. left? Are we going to be right? Well, you know what? Abby Spanberger should be. what's right for Virginia to be. governor. I say all the time Jared Golden Jared. Golden is not going to win in AOC's. district and she's not going to win in. his. Correct. So be who you are where you are.

and then come together and try to find. common ground for the things you want to. pass. But there's no way the Democrats. look look over in the right there's the. there's beginning for there's the crazy. conspiracy theories there's the America. first there's the racist then there's. the them you know then there's Marco. Rubio who's standing there looking like. he's having an aneurysm at any moment. So, and you know, and willing to be a. quizing. So, which he wants because he. wants to be president. Like again, why? Everyone's like, "Why is Mario doing. this?" I'm like, "He wants to be.

president." And they're like, "But why?". And I'm like, "Because he wants to be. president." Like just it's so simple if. you just look at what they want. And in. the case of Musk, he wants power. And in. the case of Trump, he wants money and. power. And so, you know, well, go so going back, who who who are. you who are you looking at? What names. what names interest you? Uh, you know, obviously Wes Moore gets a lot of. attention. Um, I I very impressed with. him. I did a recent interview with him. Um, you know, the typical ones among. politicians, Josh Shapiro, I suppose.

Pritsker, I I suppose I I doubt Gretchen. Whitmer will be as big a factor. Uh, I. suspect Amy Clolobachar will wander. around in into because she s really. wants to run the country. I think pretty. much um which is fine. Um, Newsome. clearly. Yeah. Um, you know, I like, you know, everyone's looking at Andy Basher, but I. was so impressed by Laura Kelly from. Kansas. I don't know why. I just really. liked her whole thing. Um, and then. there's all kinds of interest. I mean, AOC, you can't count her out. She's a. really gift. She's one of the most. gifted politicians in very similar.

similarities with Trump. Same not not in. not in terms of policy, but in. charisma, charisma styled communication skills. Mandani definitely has that. Of course, he's early. He's a little early. Um, you. know, non-political and he like Mark. Cuban. Mark Cuban I I always bug him. I always. like are you running yet? No. You know. he would tell me if he was he would he. would hedge it but he hasn't hedged it. once with me. So I mean he'd be a really. interesting candidate. I I we were. joking he should run as a Republican and.

see just to drive them crazy. Yeah. Cara, where can where can folks. who are watching and listening see and. hear more from you? Oh, pivot pivot with Scott Galloway who. has who is very wise too and on with. Cara Swisser. So. excellent. Well, I I would highly. recommend it. I just listened to your. latest episode of Pivotal last night. with Scott and uh it's it's always. wonderful. So, highly recommend for. anybody who's watching and listening. right now. Scott's in a visa. I am not. Yeah. So, yeah. Well, um well, you're. here with us, so we appreciate it. Cara, thank you so much for taking the time. Thanks. [Music].