Republicans declare war amid Kirk shooting

I'm joined now by the host of Potsy. America, John Favro. Favs, thanks for. joining me. >> Always a pleasure. >> So, we are right now in the aftermath of. the shooting by Charlie Kirk. As of this. morning, they have uh found uh uh the. suspect, the person responsible for the. shooting. Um prior to that though, prior. to that update, there was a slew of. right-wing commentators, right-wing. officials, uh Republicans who had come. out and said stuff like this. >> The Democrats just killed Charlie Kirk. today. They're desperate. They're. losing. They want to intimidate you and. me and everybody else. Charlie Kirk's a.

casualty of war. We're the we're we're. in this country. >> When is the Democrats going to stand up. and and apologize for the hatred and the. lies that they have fed their base. that's led to these actions. >> They are at war with us. Whether we want. to accept it or not, they are at war. with us. Now, as of this moment, there. is, you know, there are some indications. of what we know about the shooter. Um,

has two Republican parents. Uh, steeped in online culture. I think like. the one thing above all else is that. this guy is just terminally online, as. is the case with a lot of these shooters. that we see. There isn't some cogent. political ideology in in a lot of these. cases. It's just somebody who is. up enough to be able to do this in the. first place, right? And yet that hasn't. stopped, I think, a lot of what what. we're seeing from, you know, these. figures, which is to kind of use an. already violent moment to to further. inflame tensions. Uh we saw the same.

thing from Trump himself, who came came. out uh in in a in a record a recorded. address and basically said that we're at. war uh uh with with leftism, right? So, how are you thinking about um how are. you thinking about like what the the. practical impacts of of that kind of uh. that kind of rhetoric are going to be? >> I mean, I certainly don't think it's. going to turn the temperature down or. lead us to a better place in any way. >> I mean, you know, I think uh the Wall. Street Journal ran that story about like.

maybe there's markings that are. >> trans ideidology. I don't even know what. the that is. Or uh or anti-fascist. And so my takeaway is that um yesterday, Thursday, everyone jumped to conclusions. about the shooter's motive with very. incomplete information. And now we have. a little bit more information, but it's. still incomplete. So I don't really want. to jump to the shooters motives either. We're like because they caught him alive. and he's got a family and apparently and. I believe they said he's talked to his. family about some of this stuff. So it. sounds like we're going to find out. Yeah. But I do think like whether the.

shooter was a left-wing guy, a. right-wing guy, someone with, and I said. this on the pod yesterday, someone with. complicated, weird ideological beliefs. that could be conflicting. Um, what. matters is that this, for all we know, one person pulled the trigger here. Um, and to Jesse Waters and Donald Trump and. all those people that we just saw saying. the Democrats are at war and Democrats. hate it, we're not at war. We don't we. want you to lose in the next election.

>> Yeah. >> Um I I don't like what you say. I think. it's uh it's insightful. I think that uh. Donald Trump is um an authoritarian who. is trying to consolidate power right. now. But I think that we uh approach. that with nonviolence opposition, nonviolent opposition. And I believe. strongly in that. So I and the reason I. just bring that up because it sounds. kind of obvious is like I do think the. best way to contrast with that is to.

show everyone in this country we're not. the people looking for war. We are not. the people we are not in in this country. who um want violence. We don't. And if. you want to keep making up this fantasy. that there is this war in this country, that the left is hateful and wants to. tear people down and and and ruin this. country, like you can do that, but. that's not what we stand for. Is there. some concern though given like how. bifurcated our media ecosystems are that.

>> if you're watching Fox News, if you're. consuming, you know, like Donald Trump's. addresses where he's saying this, Megan. Kelly saying the same thing, Jesse. Waters saying the same thing, these. Republican lawmakers saying the same. thing, uh that that still the takeaway. for a lot of the people consuming all of. this content is going to be the polar. opposite of what you just said. >> Yes. Yeah. I have a lot of concern about. that and I don't know what to do about. that. >> Yeah. Because I mean it's it's like this. it's it's this massive asymmetry here. where where one side is saying that the.

other side is is advocating for. something but the problem is that those. people are not consuming the other. side's views and commentary and and and. beliefs and so it's they are they their. takeaway is just that is is only based. on basically how the right paints the. left and not what the left is actually. saying. >> I Yeah. And that obviously that's a this. is a a magnified example of this, but. like this has been our concern forever. with the right-wing media ecosystem. I. do think the only thing we can do is. show up in some of those places and be.

out there publicly on whatever platforms. we're on. >> Yeah. >> Letting people know that um what our. values and principles are and that. they're not violence. I wanted to throw. to a clip of what Trump said in the. aftermath of of being asked about uh. about Charlie Kirk and how he's holding. up. [Music]. >> How are you holding up over the last. three and a half years? >> I think very good. And by the way, right. there you see all the trucks. They've. just started construction of the new.

ballroom for the White House, which is. something they've been trying to get, as. you know, for about 150 years. And it's. going to be a beauty. It'll be. absolutely magnificent structure and I. just see all the trucks we just started. so it'll get done uh very nicely and. it'll be one of the best anywhere in the. world actually. >> look we all we all grieve differently. >> you know um. Obama in the aftermath of the Sandy Hook. shooting I think o Obama had a reaction.

that I think uh spoke to the vast. majority of this country virtually all. of the country and then you have this. reaction uh from Trump in the aftermath. of of Charlie Kirk shooting. I'm just. curious, you know, having written for. for Obama, how like. I can't even ask you to get into Trump's. head because that is a it like the the. level of sociopathy and and malignant. narcissism that you have to be capable. of displaying to be asked about somebody. who you purportedly care a lot about and.

to respond with how great the. construction of your ballroom is going. is is like, you know, next level. But. just curious, you know, having having. worked with Obama, hearing that response. to to a a horrific, tragic uh uh. shooting like like the one we saw in. Sandy Hook to today, you know, a decade. and a half later, Trump's response. I'm. just just your general reaction. >> I know everyone thinks that everything. in politics is like planned for public. consumption and um just on the Obama.

thing, obviously the nation saw him uh. tear up. Yeah. >> But um when I when it first happened and. um I brought him the initial statement. that he did, not the speech at the at. the eulogy, but I quickly rushed out a. statement and I brought it up. I I sent. it up to him and then he called me up to. the oval so he could give me his edits. and it was the first time I saw him. It. was just me and him. And when he um. handed me the edits, like he couldn't. even look up from the desk uh because he.

was, you know, it was very emotional. And so when that showed in public, that's just who he is, you know. And. sometimes you don't control the things. that the public sees uh when you're a. politician, as much as either you might. like or your adviserss might like or. whatever, that's just something that. happens. I say this because for for. Trump, Trump could have had a a very. close relationship with Charlie Kirk and. cared about him very much. Um, it could. be that Trump Trump doesn't really have.

that Trump is sociopathic and you know, plenty of evidence of that. And um, it. also could be I was thinking that like. he knows you're never ever supposed to. show any kind of weakness or. vulnerability or emotion because. everything is about strength with him. And so maybe he was like, I'm just going. to start talking about that. Or maybe he. just was really cared about that because. his brain bounces around as fast as the. social media feeds that are all. uh that are ruining our lives. >> So, exactly. It's hard to get in his. head. Yeah. >> Couple options I gave you for what what.

it could be. >> So, I I wanted to talk to you especially. because you know you you host uh you. host a show offline um that I think is. really important especially in moments. like this and a big part of of the. shooting that we saw has been social. media's reaction to it. Um I I I took. all day Wednesday and all day Thursday. and didn't post anything because I I. felt like I had reached the breaking. point in the broader discourse. Um, and. you know, like I have to also kind of to.

a degree take care of my mental health. and and not kind of uh get consumed by a. really a really uh I don't know uh. just generally disgusting and and uh and. and hostile and acrimonious news cycle. Um, I I want to uh I want to put on the. screen here uh the Utah Governor Spencer. Cox offering a few words and then talk. to you about uh kind of a little bit of. what you've you've um spoken about on.

offline. We are not wired as human. beings. biologically. uh historically we have not evolved uh. in a way that um we are capable of. processing those types of violent. imagery. And by the way, we've seen. another one with a gruesome stabbing. very recently that went viral. Um this. is not good for us. It is not good to. consume. Um, social media is a cancer on. our society right now and I would.

encourage again I would encourage people. to log off, turn off, touch grass, hug a. family member, go out and do good in. your community. So um, so I'm joined by. social media is John Favro. >> It's um, >> how are you thinking about this? Because. you are as as online as anybody can be. Um, but you also host a show called. Offline about the virtues of doing. exactly what the Utah governor said, which is to to take time um, you know, to touch grass and and and actually. surround yourself with regular human. beings. And I remember about a year ago,

I had asked you um, maybe maybe even. longer than that. I had asked you if any. if anything that you'd heard while doing. offline, if any guest you'd spoken to. while doing offline, if if there was any. evidence to point to the fact that that. um that it was beneficial to your. health, to your health, um or whatever. it may be that there was any virtue to. being to to being online even more. And. the answer was no. like nobody that. you'd spoken with said that being on the. more that you're on like that there is.

in any way uh uh a positive relationship. between being online and like having any. semblance of mental health. Um, but I'm. curious in in given the response that. we've seen from from this shooting, which is for a lot of people to just. kind of uh devolve further into their. into their corners and uh and and use it. basically to to um uh to defend their. their, you know, their prior beliefs or. or or whatever it may be. How how you're. thinking about uh you know, just the.

broader state of social media. >> Social media is a cancer. Uh Governor. Cox is correct. It it uh promises the um. ill it promises connection. It gives you. the illusion of connection. Um you are not really connecting with. human beings the way that you connect. with human beings in real life. But it. is hard to see that which is why people. keep going back to it. So it is also the. temptation of connection for example and. I think part of this is the way that the. media in environment has broken down. I.

mean I was in a family where if there. were big events something happened in. the country like there was some almost. solace in gathering around the. television together and knowing that the. whole country was watching whether it's. an election whether it was a tragedy. whether it was whatever it may be that. the whole country was watching that too. and you sort of felt this connection. there and I think that's an important. sort of human need and human impulse and.

I think I mean for me I am still on. social media despite hosting the show. and everyone you know I know a lot of. our subscribers are like oh his brain's. broken what does he do he's he's like a. hypocrite he talks about it and he. doesn't get off but it's like I first of. all I am fallible I'm just I am as um uh. vulnerable to these temptations as. anyone else I also do it for my job but. I do think in like I've been online the. last couple days and I've been you know. not posting too much but I've been. online and the reason is this was a sort.

of a scary thing that happened, a. tragedy and I wanted to be I wanted to. see what other people were saying and I. wanted to be around other people who. were also dealing with it. So that's why. people go on. The challenge is the. algorithms will show you first of all. it's a self- selecting population, right? So the people who are on social. media are already more partisan and more. ideological than the rest of the. country, >> right? And then once you're on, it's not.

like you're all just in a room talking. to each other. It's that the algorithm. is showing you the most extreme uh views. on either side. And it's also showing. you like uh Governor Cox was saying, violence, incredible violence, like the. video of Charlie Kirk. And to the point. where it desensitizes you to violence, it also dehumanizes people. If you are. yelling at someone online, if you are. arguing with someone online and you are. not seeing their face, you don't know. who they are, you're not sitting across. the table from them like you and I are.

right now, then it is easier to not see. them as a full person and a full human. being. And I think whether it's whether. this is the case for this killer or. plenty of other uh troubled killers, sorry, plenty of other troubled young. people who either go on to be mass. shooters or just go on to have all kinds. of mental health challenges. If you're. home all day and your community and you. think you have friends, but your. community is people who you do not see. in person and who are only online in.

terms of, you know, their media accounts. and you're interacting with them that. way. If that's all, you are not going to. have an accurate portrayal of what. humanity is, the good that can come from. humanity and not just the bad. And. that's going to I think it it it hurts. our souls. I really do. I I think and I. so I it's tough because I do think that. we need places to meet people and. interact with people that we may not. meet in person, you know, and I do think.

we need places to find good information, especially information that's that's. breaking quickly, right? I mean, for us, we do this for a job, >> but the commentary, the fights, all that. kind of it's just um it's it's a. cancer. >> Yeah. I mean, I I I was looking at all. of this stuff and I was seeing the way. that things were going very quickly and. just kind of like stepped back and I was. like there there it kind of just feels. like we're through the looking glass, you know, like it feels like like this. is like. >> I don't know because because it can.

always it can always get worse, >> but like watching the ways in which all. of the commentary was just it was so. hostile, so acrimonious and um and I. just I I I don't know how you come back. from a point where where there is no. humanity left in in any of this. And so. other than just stepping away, which of. course if you have like some nuanced if. you have some nuanced perspective on. this, you know, I think I think the way. like all of the incentive all of the.

incentives for posting online are are. completely antithetical to that. But but. um really the only stuff that's going to. bubble to the top is the you know is the. most uh the most hostile takes and the. most partisan takes. And so I like isn't. there some concern that like that you. don't like how do you come back from. this in a world where where anybody with. nu like a nuance take is going to be. either so disgusted with what's going on. that they're not going to want to you. know weigh in or that even if they do. weigh in it's not going to bubble up in.

the algorithm because that's not what. works online. And so this is like now. the new normal which is like if if you 5. years ago if you looked at a response to. a shooting if you looked today you'd be. like holy I mean this is just it's a. deeply broken it's a deeply broken. society. Um and so like I guess my worry. here is that is that this is the best. it's going to be like it like it can. only devolve even further from from here. because it's not like the incentives are.

going to be any better. It's not like. Elon Musk is going to suddenly say like, "Hey, let's uh let's start rewarding. nuance and let's start like, you know, burying uh burying the most hostile. takes that you can get.". >> I do think that a backlash to social. media has been brewing now, like a real. one, not just, you know, people who come. on offline and talk about it. Um, you. can see it in the polls. You can see it. in polls of people who support uh. banning phones in schools. Yeah. And. including a majority of young people, by.

the way. Is that true? Young people. young people are in favor of of like for. themselves. >> It's obviously Yeah, it's obviously. closer. In fact, when you actually talk. to young people, they've done a few. studies of this. >> Even the ones who think that they want. to keep the phones, they say, "Oh, if. everyone else gave up the phone, I'd be. great. I don't want it, but I just want. it because I I can't not have. unilaterally disarm, >> right?" Which I I understand that that. point of view for sure. Um, >> and so people people don't want this. I. think that in I was just saying this to. on a on a group chat much better than on.

social media. Um a candidate who runs in. 2028 against social media and against. the phones. Um and I'm saying phone. rest. I'm not saying ban the phones. completely like some people think I do. Uh but a a a candidate who runs on that. >> Too late. It's too late. >> It's too late. the sound's going to. >> a candidate who runs on that I think. would do really well because I also. think it's an issue that um you have. some people maybe on the in the center. center right who also feel the same way. about that people don't want this and I.

think even campaigning in politics I. mean. >> Zoran Mandani and his uh social media. strategy is very interesting right which. is instead of uh direct to camera stuff. that he's doing so it's just like a. relationship with the voter. >> he's doing grassroots in-person. organizing and meeting people and then. broadcasting that to people, which is. different, right? Because that it I. think campaigns are going to return to. to the point that they can. Uh if we're. going to get out of this, well, it'll be. in person and and and not necessarily.

just like knocking on strangers doors, but holding meetings of like-minded. people and talking about politics. Like, I just think we have to mediate some of. our conversations in person. And I say. that knowing that I will go back online. and have fights because that is what we. have right now. But I know that I am. always looking for ways to meet in. person and have debates about politics. that way. >> You know, right when I was graduating. from college, when I was graduating from. Lehi, I remember I remember so like.

smartphones were just coming out. This. was in 2011. I think I had like one one. of my buddies was the first one to get. like an Android. Uh I I had a flip phone. in college. Like it feels it feels so. prehistoric now, but like I had flip. phone in college and I remember being so. jealous. I remember like on on. graduation day watching, you know, I was. there and I I saw I saw like you some of. the um uh you know people getting ready. to leave and and some of the you know. siblings of of graduates coming and. they're like I'm going to I'm going to.

be here and I was like man I'm so. jealous because these kids are going to. have such a different college career. because they're so much more connected. than we were and they'll have the. internet and they'll be they'll have. like Instagram and social media and they. can they can talk to each other and like. we missed out on all of that and and for. years that that was how I thought about. This was I was so jealous because these. kids are going to be so much more so. much better connected to the world and. to even people like on our own campus. And recently I started thinking what. what a blessing it was that. everything we did,

>> not just the stupid that I did in. my frat house, but like just that. everything that we did was not broadcast. to the entire world and that we got to. have like real like intimate experiences. with other human beings without feeling. like you're performing for the whole. world. And uh and and nobody will ever. have that again. >> I know. I always think I didn't. >> I mean it's it's like a little bit like. you know when we were growing up and. like the way you found people in your. neighborhood in the '90s was like look. for the bikes, right? Like look for. people's bikes in their front yards. >> It's that and also I was thinking about. this in college cuz I I had a flip phone.

like maybe the last year in college. which I didn't even cuz I'm you know I'm. old and um but you'd go out at night. you'd go to parties everyone after all. your friends at the party after the. party would scatter in different. directions and then every every morning. Saturday or Sunday morning we'd meet in. the dining hall and everyone would share. their stories. >> Yeah. And because you weren't texting. each other, you weren't posting it. And. so there's like a table of all your. close friends and and it was the best. time because it was like, let's talk.

about last night, let's talk about what. happened, where'd you go, where'd you. end up, how' this happen, what's going. on tonight. And it was just like a place. where you could have a real conversation. with people. And I do I like I feel so. sorry for kids today that they don't get. to have that. And when I talked to uh. Vic Murthy, the surgeon general, he he. talks about how he or Biden's surgeon. general and Obama's as well, he talked. about how he go into schools and sit for. lunch with kids at schools and they. would all just be down looking down on. their phones the whole time. >> Yeah. Well, look, I I think uh you know,

it's a little weird for for like two. people who work online and whose. livelihood comes from from being online. to talk about like the virtues of not. being online, but I hope that like you. know, the last the events of the last. few days can at least uh you know, offer. offer folks who are watching a little. bit of of a push to put down the phones, stop stop watching folks, including us, and uh and just, you know, spend some. time uh you know, reconnecting with with. people in the world here. So, uh, Favs, as always, I appreciate the time. Uh, thanks so much.

>> Thanks for having me.