Raphael Warnock hits Trump amid new war on Christianity

I'm joined now by the US Senator from. Georgia, Raphael Warnock. Thanks so much. for joining me. Great to be with you again. So, Senator, we had some news this. weekend about Donald Trump having not. only attacked the Pope, but also. presented himself on a Truth Social post. as Jesus Christ. So, first and foremost, can I have your reaction to kind of this. this new tack that Trump is taking here. where he's taking an overtly. antagonistic. posture against evangelicals and. Christians? Let's be very clear and and this I've.

known for a long time, but this is just. evidence. Donald Trump is not. a man of faith. Contrary to what some of the loudest and. most well-financed Christian voices in. our country would would assert, he is. not a person of faith. In fact, he has contempt. for faith. and for people of faith. It is language. that he really does not understand. Um. this this idea that your life is.

centered around something other than. yourself. is is a kind of foreign moral vocabulary. to Donald Trump. And so, not only do you. see this this image of him depicting. himself as Jesus. as king of kings. Um we shouldn't forget that just a. couple weeks ago on Easter Sunday. morning. um as I was preparing to deliver my.

sermon to my congregation, the ether was. penetrated by the toxic and ugly words. of Donald Trump literally dropping. F-bombs. and threatening. to drop actual bombs. on civilians, that he would bomb their. utilities, their energy, their bridges, which is a war crime, which is deeply. immoral. Uh and then 2 days later he said a whole. civilization will die tonight because.

he's having a temper tantrum about a. problem that he unnecessarily created. Uh this is not a man of faith. And look, I know people who are not given to any. particular faith tradition, but they are. people of conscience. Uh they are they. are people of moral courage. That's not. who he is. He's the opposite. And it's. past time way past time uh for some of. my Christian clergy colleagues to stop.

caping uh for this man who has deep. contempt for everything. uh that our faith represents. >> You know, Senator, I'm I'm glad that you. said that he's showing nothing but. contempt because in fact, as a response. to him having posted a picture depicting. himself as Jesus, he doubled down and he. decided to say that um this was him. being depicted as nothing other than a. doctor. And so, you know, it would be. bad enough if it was just the blasphemy. Uh especially when he's pandering to a.

certain segment of the population for. whom that is or should be disqualifying, but then to just lie to those people's. faces, what what did that say to you. that instead of, you know, seeking to to. remedy the situation or or own up to it, own up to his own actions, he decided to. just double down and lie even further by. claiming that the picture very clearly. depicting him as Jesus was just him as a. doctor. Let me Let me just say this to my MAGA.

sisters and brothers. We have different. politics, but I I do mean this. Whatever. you think of my politics, I mean it. sincerely when I call you sister and. brother a child of God because I believe. all of us reflect the divine image. Um. Donald Trump is sending a clear message. to his supporters. He thinks they're. stupid. He thinks they're stupid. Uh you know, to to say I I thought I I. thought I was depicting myself as a. doctor. Come on, give me a break.

Um we know that Donald Trump has not. darkened the doors of a church much at. all. Uh but I mean, you don't have to. spend but. a few minutes in in any house of. worship. Uh you don't have to go to a. house of worship uh to know depictions. of of of Jesus when you see them. Right. >> And so, I I think, you know, it's one. thing to lie, but he has such contempt for the for his. supporters. that he's too lazy to even offer up a.

respectable lie. They should be deeply. offended and embarrassed. You know, Senator, um we we'll see stuff. like this happen and and and I think. that you can shine some light on this. better than, you know, better than. someone like me. Um and you know, you. and I have spoken uh many times in the. past about this idea that that I'm that. I'm, you know, as as secular as it gets. Um but I have trouble understanding how. he could cross what I've been told are. red lines um and still and still be able.

to garner support from people for whom. their Christianity is a is a guiding. principle. And so, can you help help. reconcile that idea where where we see. him commit, you know, these either. contemptible behavior or outright crimes. against women, where we'll see him. disparage either the church or the Pope. or the ideals of Christianity and still. there be, you know, perhaps slightly. less support, but still overwhelming.

support. And so, can you help reconcile. those ideas for me? Well, what you are are rightly pointing. to is the deep chasm, the divide between. faith claims. and what people are willing to support. if it, you know, serves their political. purposes. And I I would submit that the. the answer or the lens for understanding. that is actually buried within the faith.

itself. There's a word for that. It's. idolatry. Everybody's pointing to the. blasphemous part of this, but but what I. what I mean by that is is those of us. who who are people of faith in my faith. tradition, we're we're we're required. not to put any God before God. Thou. shalt have no other God before me. And I. think that what what our what gets. revealed sometimes over time is that. people say they're committed to. something, but but there's always.

something else that's competing for. that. And I I think that the rise of. Donald Trump. and the support that he receives. is indicative of. a long and sad history in our country. where people are deeply committed uh to. faith as. cultural identity. Uh they're deeply. committed, dare I say it, to white.

supremacy. They're deeply committed to. uh the politics uh and the theology of. domination. And so, the religion just becomes one. more tool uh in that effort. And the. thing that that they have to ask. themselves is, are you putting some. other God before the God who is the true. God? And because when you do that, this. is this is this is what you get. And so, here here you here you have a man that.

folks have talked about as if he's. somehow the God's messenger in this. moment. Little really? As he takes. health care away from 15 million people? As he doubles the health care premium of. 22 million people? As as he makes of. immigrant communities something other. than human beings? Um uh in the midst of. the cruelty that he's unleashed in our. streets, masked men jumping out of. unmarked cars creating terror, havoc,

death, and destruction uh both for. citizens and non-citizens alike? You you. Do you not have any critique of any of. this? Jesus is a victim of identity. theft. Uh I don't know who this this. hateful, homophobic, xenophobic uh Jesus. is uh who is. okay with billionaires getting a tax cut. while people in poor rural communities.

all across my state in districts that. didn't vote for me, and that's fine. because I'm going to keep showing up for. those people. They They SNAP Those SNAP. cuts that they put forward uh in that. one big ugly bill are hurting people in. rural districts uh more than blue. districts. Uh those are the places where. hospitals are closed in a state like. mine because. our state leaders uh refuse to expand. Medicaid because they cut $3 billion out.

of Medicaid. Uh and and somehow. um I I think we we've got to put forward. a version of the faith, which is what I. try to do, that centers our humanity. You know, I pastored the church led by. Martin Luther King Jr. There were people who who claimed to be. Christians. There were people who shared. the same faith on the other side of the. debate about segregation. Dr. King's. biggest adversaries, his biggest critics.

uh were folks who went to church every. Sunday. Some of them numbers of the. clergy. They clearly had a different. view of the faith. There There were. folks who supported slavery and they. used the Bible and they lifted up. certain texts to justify their support. of slavery. It just so happens. uh that I have been shaped and nurtured. in a countervailing. tradition that was was literally born.

fighting for freedom, literally born. saying slavery is wrong. It was a voice. against segregation. And I think in that spirit in this. moment in which we're seeing the rise of. this. nationalist Christianity. um. that is mean-spirited. that narrows the view even of what it. means to be an American let alone a. child of God. I think there are those of. us who are called in this moment.

whatever our faith tradition or whether. we claim no particular faith tradition. at all to point to our common humanity. and to center the people who are most. vulnerable in a time like this. Senator, do you think that whether it's. the idolatry, whether it's the. blasphemy, whether it's the examples. that you gave, which are using funds. that could go toward people's health. care, people's food assistance, making. their everyday lives more affordable, child care, you name it, instead being.

sent to fund, you know, wars overseas, which bad enough onto itself, but even. worse given the fact that this. administration actually came into power. promising not to do that. Have all of. these things either one or the other. created a vacuum that that you have. found is being filled by folks like you? Like what I what I mean by that question. is. in your conversations with voters out. there, people. who believed that this Republican Party. or that Donald Trump was going to be a. good shepherd of Christian values, have.

you seen a switch given what we've seen. during this administration thus far? I think we're definitely seeing buyers. remorse. Donald Trump's poll numbers are in the. dumps right now. And every day they seem to be getting. lower and lower. I guess that's why he's trying to pass. the Save Act. The Save Act is certainly. not about saving people's voices, is not. about saving our democracy, is not about. saving the country. It's about saving. his power and his enablers in Congress.

And so they're trying to change the. rules, trying to pretend that this is. some basic voter ID law. It's it it is a. law that they want to pass that will. make it very difficult for people to. register to vote. They are afraid. of hearing from the voters come November. and they should be. They should be. afraid of hearing from the American. people come November because he ran. saying he was going to lower people's. prices,

focus on their needs. and not get us into any new wars. And instead. he's taking us into an illegal war of. choice. in the Middle East on the heels of years. of what felt like endless war in this. country. and every day guys gas prices are going. up every day and he's telling people not. to believe their lying eyes even as they. are seeing the price of gas and what it.

takes to fill their tanks and take their. children to school. We intend to hold. him accountable. I'm going to do. everything I can to make sure the Save. Act does not see the light of day. They don't have 60 votes for it in the. Senate. Donald Trump is so desperate. that he's leaning hard on Republicans. trying to get them to kill the. filibuster in order to save his. political life. We're going to do. everything we can to hold the line. We're going to keep centering the.

American people and. giving them the power they need to hold. Donald Trump's congressional enablers. accountable come November. How do you reconcile those those what. what may seem on the outside like. conflicting ideals, this this idea of. mercy versus accountability? Because, you know. from my vantage. having seen what happened during the. Biden administration where you have. Merrick Garland's DOJ that opted not to. act aggressively enough has kind of.

given rise to a feeling of lawlessness. among Republicans, but at the same time, you know, there. are critics of that approach, the the. approach that I would agree with that. say, you know, this is just going to. continue to be. a race to the bottom where both sides. will attack the other. And so how do you. think about that as we look toward you. know, a next iteration of the government. 2028 and beyond if Democrats are lucky. enough to take power once again. Yeah.

Well, you know, Donald Trump often. says that he's the best at everything. You know, this is Trump talk. No one no. one knows more about, you know, you name. the topic than me. No one's better at. this to me. Let me let me tell you the. thing the singular thing. that Donald Trump really is better at. than any politician in my lifetime, anybody I can think of. he is the master. at dividing us. He he really. has a knack for that. I mean, look look.

at the fact that even as we. make our way towards this November a. midterm election, what has Donald Trump. done? He called into the state of Texas. He said, "I need a few more seats.". And so we're going to do mid-decade. redistricting. And so you talk about the race to the. bottom, we're in the midst of that right. now because we can't afford to. unilaterally disarm. Right? So so so I I am a vocal vocal.

critic. of partisan and racial gerrymandering. And I've been a chief sponsor of bills. in Congress to get us past this. But. right now we're in a moment where we. have no choice. but to respond in kind to the. redistricting war. that Donald Trump began. mid-decade. because he's trying to rig the outcome. of the elections. But I do hope. that.

we will get. past this. get to a place. where there will be a reckoning to be. sure. If you commit crimes, you ought to be. held accountable. But we will get to a place. where we where we recognize. not the ways in which we did prior to. Donald Trump because if if if the way we. were was so great. we wouldn't be here. It set the context.

in many ways for where we are. Too many people were left behind. prior to Donald Trump coming in coming. to power. And so we've got to. paint a picture pave a path for a new. America that embraces all of our. children. That's what what I work on and. that's what I pray about and I fight for. every single day. Senator, last question here. You know, you you had you had begun your previous. answer by saying that Trump presents. himself as somebody who's who's always.

competent, who's always the best at. something and and he does. But there's. one thing that he kind of offers some. concession on and that is this idea that. he's going that he that he's not going. to heaven. And I always found that so. curious because there's nothing that he. will say that he can't do, right? He's. he's the smartest guy in the room, he. always gets the highest grades on on. every dementia test that he's given. He. can build better than everybody else, he. can govern better than everybody else, he can market and sell whatever it is, he's always the best, but he he he.

curiously concedes that he's not going. to heaven. And so I'm curious from your. vantage what you attribute that to. I don't know. I I I can't get in Donald. Trump's head. I I tell you as a preacher I I preach. redemption every every Sunday. So. obviously I I believe that there's a. path for redemption. available. to to every human being. I don't have a. heaven or hell to put Donald Trump in. and so I'm not going to engage in that. kind of eschatological.

guessing. even if he does. I'm I'm more concerned. about the hell. that he's creating here on earth, the. hell that he's literally putting people. through as 15 million people have lost. their health care, 22 million people. have seen their health care premiums. double the hell that he's creating in. whole communities where because of his. um. his version. of a of an extreme and radicalized ICE.

there are whole communities in Georgia, in Minnesota, all across our country. where children are in terror, afraid to. go to school and their parents are. afraid to go to work whether they are. citizens or not. He's creating hell for a whole lot of. people right here on earth and I'm going. to do everything I can to. to to save us from that. Well, Senator, I appreciate the time and. I think I've mentioned this to you just.

about every time I've spoken to you, but. but there is at some point in my life I. I feel like I need to just sit. sit in a church and listen to you. because, you know, secularity. notwithstanding, it is it is it is. always, you know, an an honor to listen. to the to the poetry that is hearing you. speak. So I appreciate you taking the. time today. Thanks for the work you're. doing. Bless you, dear brother. Take care.