OUTSMARTED: Attorney finds SURPRISE way to force release Epstein files

I'm joined now by the founder and. executive chair of Democracy Defenders. Fund, Norm Eisen. Norm, there is news. that just broke about you and your. organization that I can't believe I. didn't even think of as it relates to. Epstein. Can you explain the avenue that. you're taking to compel the release of. the Epstein files in addition to what. we've seen in Congress? >> Uh, thanks for having me back, Brian. Um. there's no more important topic right. now than um the connection between.

Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. And for that reason, we have filed. Freedom of Information Act requests. There's a law foya. It requires the. government to turn over information. So. we've filed urgent requests. We want to. see all of the Epstein files, but in. particular the information about Donald. Trump's relationship to Jeffrey Epstein.

It matters in its own right, but also we. want to know, has there been a cover up. and who's been involved in that cover. up? I I kind of can't believe I didn't. think of this because we had been. focused on on getting Congress to compel. the release of these files and of course. the Trump administration is saying that. they need to get grand jury testimony. that they that judges never had the. authority to unseal. But I never thought. of the FOYA avenue which I guess raises. the next question is what material is. subject to FOYA release and what.

material can the government continue to. conceal that isn't applicable uh for. release under Freedom of Information Act. requests? >> Well, there's a broad presumption that. information uh should be released under. FOYA uh when it's a matter of urgent. public interest as this is. you've got. to do it quickly. You have a right under. the statute to what they call expedited. treatment, fast treatment. Uh normally.

there are exclusions, for example, for. law enforcement material. But Brian, this is why it occurred to me to do. this. The government themselves said the. most sensitive law enforcement. information we have, grand jury. information, must be released as the. matter of public interest. The moment. the government filed to release a. Epstein grand jury material, I took that. page and I quote that page where they. say this must be released. Look, the.

number two at DOJ is running to. interview Gain Maxwell in person. Don't. all Americans have a right to know. what's in these files and in particular. Trump Epstein contacts? So that was what. caused the uh light bulb to go off for. me when the government said material. must be released. That establishes an. exception to the usual rule about law. enforcement materials. >> Right. So, and and the irony of that is.

that that was their pretext to be able. to engage in this grand jury testimony, uh, wild goose chase, knowing full well. that a judge wouldn't have the wouldn't. have the authority because of secrecy. rules, 6E secrecy rules, wouldn't have. the authority to actually release the. grand jury testimonies. And so, this was. all just I mean, we they did this under. the guise of of transparency, knowing. full well that it would never work. But. the irony of that is that now they. inadvertently gave you the the the.

excuse that you would need to be able to. get this stuff released through Foyo. because now you can point to their own. words um words that they propped up. through what they knew would be a doomed. effort but now it can actually lend. itself to getting those those uh. materials released through FOYA. >> Yeah. they um are engaged in a kind of. sham transparency. Um you know whether. it's with these grand jury materials. because they don't think the judge will. do it. By the way, it's very cruel to.

the victims. We that's why we have done. narrowly focused requests. We want the. Trump Epstein information. We have the. greatest respect for the victims. Trump. and his enablers over at DOJ are just. running uh rough shot over all that. There's even speculation of pardoning. Galain Maxwell who was. found guilty of the worst crimes. And. then in terms of DOJ trying to get her. to testify, Brian, she's been found to.

be a liar. DOJ themselves filed in her. case saying she's not honest, she's not. reliable. Right. So, uh, that that just. smacks of a cover up. Todd Blanch going. over there and talking to her in her. jail. So, we think that the documents. about Trump and Epstein, the Trump. Epstein files, uh, are of the utmost. public interest. They must be released.

>> Okay. So, let's talk about the mechanics. of this thing. Who does the request go. to? Who who is the the the adjudicator. here in terms of whether or not your. request will be uh will be approved? >> Uh the request goes to multiple places. across the federal government, the DOJ, the FBI, the executive office of US. attorneys, many others who we believe. are holding these documents. And we've. done two waves of requests. We did the.

first wave uh demanding the Trump. Epstein files and then come to learn. there's press reporting that DOJ told. Donald Trump he's in these files. So. that corroborated the existence. So. today breaking news, this is my actual. first appearance talking about this. Um, we demanded all the documents about the. handling of the Trump Epstein files, the.

disclosure to Donald Trump and the. withholding, including what was the. involvement of Pam Bondi, Todd Blanch, senior DOJ officials, and Emil Boove, who's been nominated for a third. circuit, a lifetime judicial. appointment, Trump's former defense. lawyer with Todd Todd Blanch, uh, including including in the New York case. uh where there were more than 30. criminal convictions. Well, when you have your former defense.

lawyers who are running the process, that raises questions. Are we getting an. independent process here or are they. turning the whole government inside out. to hide information about their boss, Donald Trump? Well, all of this kind of. lends itself to to this question, which. is if Trump is not willing and and you. know, by extension Pam Bondi, but Trump. is running the show here. If Trump is. not willing to release these files and. instead is sending everybody on these.

wild goose chases um you know, to like. the unsealed grand jury testimony that. he knows won't be unsealed, you know, going every other way except for just. releasing the files. Why would his. agencies when hit with this foyer. request approve these requests knowing. full well that their goal as far as. Trump is concerned is to never let these. things see the light of day. >> Well, first of all, um all those people. need to follow the law. So, they could. be in very serious trouble. There will. be a day after Donald Trump when they.

could be in very serious trouble if they. break the law, if they hide documents. that's uh even can lead to criminal. liability for them. That's point number. one. Point number two, you don't have to. um count uh on the good faith of uh. these officials because the in their. wisdom, the drafters of the Freedom of. Information Act gave you a litigation.

remedy. and Brian, you know, I never. miss a chance to go to court. Uh so if. they don't give us the documents, which. we now know exist, we're prepared to. litigate. Number three, my colleagues. believe that our first set of foyer. requests last week kind of smoked out. helped get the revelation that there are. Trump Epstein files. So clearly there's. some within government. Uh there was a.

story in the Wall Street Journal, big. exclusive, that these files do exist, that Trump was informed about them. Some. within the government uh clearly are. sympathetic. They didn't want these. files to be deep six. We filed our foyer. request, next thing you knew there were. these stories. So perhaps we smoked them. out. My experience has been that uh it's. very hard to hide these kinds of. documents once the world knows they. exist. remember uh there's talk in. Congress now about bipartisan efforts to.

get some of this information. Um there. are state officials who have. jurisdiction over where there were state. offenses and Donald Trump has publicly. acknowledged that he was pounced with. Epstein for many years and that he knew. Epstein liked younger women. He he said. it publicly. So, I don't think you're going to be. able to hide this information forever. You know, it's uh the underlying. information and the cover up. People.

don't like a cover up. That's why this. is the scandal that won't go away. If I. may add one more point, it's a scandal. that epitomizes the corruption of the. Trump administration. Whether it's his. um obscene attacks on uh migrants, illegally abducting them to dark sight. prisons, whether it's his uh crypto. fortune that he's making from a business. he's supposed to be regulating. Um or or.

or whether it's any of the other uh. Trump uh misconduct, Brian, uh the the. big brutal betrayal bill. Um, they're. all about the same corruption theme that. Donald Trump pals around with his rich. and powerful cronies and the most. vulnerable people in our country get. injured. And that's the theme here of. Trump's friendship with Epstein, even. acknowledging Epstein's predelection for.

younger women. My god, we've got to get. these documents. >> So, I'm especially interested in what. you mentioned about the litigation. remedy. So if you have administration. officials who opt to defy the law, which. by the way, to your exact point, o opens. them up to legal exposure personally, criminally. But beyond that, we also. have the opportunity then to remedy this. in the courts. And so could there be a. situation where, okay, you've got. administration officials who continue to. secrete, continue to conceal these.

files, but you can have a judge say, "No, this is a valid foyer request. You. do have to release the Epstein files.". Is that what could happen here? >> Absolutely. So, I've participated in. many of the important FOYA cases uh in. the uh DC circuit um where many of these. cases get litigated in DC and we've seen. uh uh over and over again over the. decades and in recent months that courts.

have ordered the government to engage in. the FOYA process. So, if we must, we're. prepared to litigate this matter. We're. going to fight for it. We're we're. looking at a lot of other legal remedies. as well because. the Trump Epstein scandal epitomizes the. corruption of the Trump regime. This is. one uh in our over 100 legal matters at. the Democracy Defenders Fund. This is.

one that's particularly important and uh. we're not letting up. And finally, you. had mentioned that when you deal with. Freedom of Information Act requests that. speed is obviously of the utmost. important importance here. And so if. this thing gets denied by the. administration and has to go through the. the judicial route for some type of. litigation remedy, is there the same. urgency to have this thing move quickly. in the same way that foyer requests are.

are have to be acted on quickly? So, will we see this thing move through the. courts at a at a speedy process? >> In in a majority of of the um cases, many many cases that we've uh prosecuted. in court, we've been able to get. emergency relief. Uh we did that to stop. the president's elections executive. order from from disadvantaging those uh. who vote against him. Uh we did it in uh. cases involving government agencies like.

Americanore where we got those. Americanore workers uh restored. Across. the board we have been able to get this. this kind of speed. Perhaps the best. example was uh the birthright. citizenship case. Brian, we were the. first to go to court with our partners. We got a class certified in about 10. days and a preliminary injunction. stopping the president's heinous. deprivation of birthright citizenship.

from some babies born here. We're. prepared to move equally quickly here if. necessary and we urge the government, some of those FOYA officers are probably. watching. We urge you turn the Trump. Epstein documents over as is legally. required. If not, see you in court. >> Well, Norm, uh, as I always say when I. speak to you, I'm beyond happy to give a. platform to the people who are out there. fighting and, uh, nobody exemplifies. that more than you and the team at.

Democracy Defenders Fund. So, highly. recommend for anybody who's looking to. support their work. These are the. fighters. These are the guys in the. front lines. These are the guys in the. courts uh, blocking the Trump. administration from allowing their worst. impulses to move forward. So, I'm going. to put a link to uh Democracy Defenders. Fund right here on the screen and also. in the post description of this video if. anybody wants to support them. Clearly, it is a good cause uh and worthy of. support. Norm, as always, I appreciate. your time. >> Thanks for having me, Brian. [Music].