MAJOR Denmark announcement amid Trump’s Greenland threats

I'm joined now by the United States. Ambassador to Denmark under President. Obama, Rufus Gford. Thanks so much for. joining me. >> Thank you so much, Brian. Very happy to. be here. >> So, first and foremost, uh we have seen. a lot of saber rattling toward a country. that we used to consider our ally before. Trump took office, and that is Denmark, of course. Uh to what extent do you take. this uh saber rattling that we're. hearing from the Trump administration. seriously? Um, so I think at this point in time, Ryan, you absolutely have to take him. seriously. When these threats first came.

up, say in 2019, um, I think there was a. lot of eye rolling. There was a lot of. sort of, uh, oh, this is just Trump with. his kind of outrageous talk. Uh, but now. I think, look, and especi look, he did a. press conference as recently as today. where uh, it was just um, could. his threats couldn't have been any more. real. his his threats couldn't have been. any more uh his threats couldn't his his. his threats couldn't have felt any more. um kind of intense for the certainly for.

people in Denmark but I also think for. Americans and so ultimately I I I am. here and I speak out as often as I do. and as pro as intensely as I do uh. because I think we as a collective sort. of we as Americans but we as and also. our European partners absolutely need to. take uh this this threat seriously. >> How does this how would this impact. NATO? I mean, we've never had a. situation where one NATO country has.

basically invaded to annex the territory. of another NATO country. That would be. the case in this instance. And so, if. that took place, what would be the. consequence of that? >> I that's well that's the thing. That's. the thing here. I mean, I don't think. it's devastating is the answer to the. question, Ben. And I think that and this. is why we again we as Americans and we. as the West need to be thinking about. this. A lot of people might think, well, Greenland, I I barely even know where it. is. There's 57,000 people. Why is this. an is why is this an an issue for me?

And and and that is because if you blow. up the best alliance the modern world. has ever seen, um it makes all of us. less safe. that he makes an really a. truly insane argument about that this is. for American national security, right? That's his like basic argument here. That is the most reckless and clueless. um disregarding history foreign policy. argument you could possibly make. regarding taking over Greenland. Why?

Because the idea of driving a stake. through the heart of NATO, which is. essentially your question, >> Yeah. >> Um. makes the United States safer. I mean, it's it's truly laughable, Brian. Like, all that does is splinter the West, empower Russia, empower China. Um, and. and ultimately make the United States. weaker. I would I certainly in the long. term, and I would make it make the. argument in the short term, too. And we. have to remember like NATO, these guys,

these guys have fought and bled. alongside us for the last 80 years. They. are our friends. We have, my favorite. word in the English language, Brian, is. trust. We've spent decades building. trust with these countries. And I don't. mean prime ministers and kings. I mean. average citizens in Europe. And one. administration over the course of the. last year has decimated that trust. Ask. a ask any soul, ask any member of a a. European military member um how they. feel about the United States uh in the.

wake of Trump's threats visa v. Greenland. Um and it it you you'll get a. sad you'll get a devastating answer. We. loved you. We we stood beside you. We. would have done we would have rolled. over for you. We would have we would. have gone every anywhere you would have. asked us to go [snorts] and um. they feel betrayed. um in such a real and profound way. It's. it's it's hard and this is why it hits. me so hard because of course as an. ambassador you do so much work with uh.

uh our foreign partners. And if I'm not. mistaken, the only time uh in the. existence of NATO that article 5 was. invoked was actually to defend the. United States in the aftermath of. September 11th. Is that correct? >> That is correct. So. >> So like, you know, we we have derived. the benefit of this alliance. And yet. now under Donald Trump, it would be the. United States that's basically. alienating our allies uh in a moment, you know, where fascism and. authoritarianism is on the rise and they. would need our help. >> That's right. And that's I think that's.

kind of the point. It's a the one moment. where we needed the support of our best. friends and that was uh in the after. 911. They came to they came and they. they fought wars that sometimes their. their populations didn't agree with. Iraq was a very polarizing war um in. Europe as we all know. Polarizing at. home polariz. >> and they all went and they all you know. and they fought with us. They died with. they died alongside us as I said. Um, and I got this, you know, I got this.

crazy I got this just such like an. amazing um uh message from a Danish. soldier that that yesterday morning. which I shared on my social media and. stuff which has gone kind of viral and. it ends I won't read the whole thing but. I'll read the last line which is it it. just it kind of speaks everything we're. talking about in a really simple and. beautiful way and it just says a soldier. never forgets who stood by his side. Nations shouldn't either. And that's. kind of what this is about is that if. you forget who was there with you, it's. like this is very human, Brian. This is.

not this is not complicated, right? This. is about friendships and alliances and. and again trust that you've built over. the course of the last 80 years and just. uh and doing what's right. um as opposed. to doing what is in in in my mind I I. can't make sense of the arguments. because the arguments don't make any. logical sense which I could go into but. the the. this feels like a selfish endeavor for. one human being and the fact that the.

entire world needs to be dragged into. that um for that reason breaks my heart. because everything he articulate by the. way I support this and this is kind of. maybe the something that would surprise. you he says he wants wants greater. national security. He wants better. national security in the Arctic. I. support that. He says he wants greater. economic cooperation in G between the. United States and Greenland. I support. that unequivocally. Um we used to have. 17 military bases on Greenland. Um after. World War II, we've scaled back. Our. choice. We decided to scale back. Um we.

could have them all back if we wanted. to. the economic cooperation. We could. be there's probably a lot of rare earth. mineral deposits on Greenland which they. would welcome American private industry. uh mining on Greenland all we could do. all this work Brian by rolling up our. sleeves doing the good long hard work of. diplomacy which I've had the enormous. honor of being able to do um on behalf. of the United States and as part of my. career. but he won't do that right and for a.

reason that I that truly doesn't make. any sense beyond the kind of sort. Western Hemisphere domination argument. and that that's what sort of uh that. that's what is such a a uh it's I think. it's really hard for a lot of us who. care so much about um who we are in the. world, the American place in the world, freedom, rule of law, democracy, the friendship. Yeah, that's what's so. hard for us to get our heads around. right now. You know, you kind of.

answered a little bit of this question, but is there anything that we that we. wouldn't be able to do um right now with. our friendship, with our trust, with our. alliance that you just referred to with. Greenland um that would require us to. just dominate or annex or take over, invade that country? Is there anything. that we would need to do in terms of. national in terms of national security, in terms of economic security that we. couldn't just do as a partner with. Greenland? >> No. No, the answer is no. And they've.

never told us no before, Brian. That's. the thing. Like I So it's hard. It's. really that this is the reason why for. those of us who've done this work for so. long and those, you know, those of us. who understand this, it it just doesn't. make any sense that you don't he again. he he makes the argument that Greenland. is going to be Russian and Chinese, Russian or Chinese uh if we don't get. Greenland. It that's it's an absurd. argument. Well, in in fact, the the way. that I think about that is it's only if.

or it's only because of Donald Trump's. embrace of imperialism that any other. country would feel like they have the. green light to take over any smaller. country. I mean right now like because. we have NATO intact and because the. United States has or or had some moral. high ground to stop bigger countries. from taking over smaller countries that. is expressly the thing that prevented. the Russas of the world the China of the. world from taking over Ukraine from. taking over Taiwan from taking over. Greenland. And if Donald Trump, it's.

only because of Donald Trump going into. Venezuela, threatening to do the same. thing to Cuba and Colombia and now. Greenland that any other countries in. the first place feel like they are are. um have the green light, feel like they. have, you know, grounds to invade any. other country? >> That's right. I mean, what what moral. authority would we have to tell the. Chinese not to go into Taiwan, >> right? If we go into if if we were to. somehow hostily take Greenland, >> what moral authority would we have to.

push back on Russia? I mean, that's a. whole different loaded issue, of course. Yeah. To uh in Ukraine. >> if we somehow hostily take Greenland, we. lose all of the credibility that again, it's this is like all of these basic. tenants of of who we are in the world. get decimated with any sort of hostile. action in Greenland. So, it this this. really does, again, it's it it is it. probably wasn't on very many Americans. radar a couple years ago. Um, and. rightly so. It's a remarkable place. I.

I'm lucky to have been to Greenland a. number of times, and I'm going back. again in the spring. I bet very few. Americans have ever set foot there. Uh, it's a magical place that doesn't want. to be on the world stage. They don't. want to be this ridiculous global. lightning rod that Donald Trump has made. them. um they want to live their lives. uh yes they want some degree of. independence from Denmark but the last. thing they want is to have a degree of.

independence from Denmark and then. [laughter]. become and then following that become a. colony of the of a much larger and more. powerful uh country it it's it's just. it's an absurd argument um and but it. doesn't but you know I I don't think. logic is ever something that Donald. Trump uh holds particularly close to his. heart. >> so I want to I want to engage in a. thought experiment and And by asking. this question, I don't at all um uh uh. give in to this to this idea that it's a. a sure thing, a done deal, that the. United States is going to annex.

Greenland. And in fact, I would be. vehemently against it. But I just want. to engage in this thought experiment for. a moment and ask. why Trump thinks it would benefit him or. redown to his benefit to make into the. 51st state uh uh a country that is. already used to socialized medicine uh. that has strong climate protections. Like doesn't this seem like his worst. nightmare in terms of bringing the. people of Greenland into the United. States from a Republican party.

perspective? Well, it's funny that you. talk about that because I it's something. it's it's it's it's probably less on the. it it's actually a very sort of what. happens the day after because one of the. things the Trump administration has. proven to be terrible at is. implementation kind of. So meaning like. [snorts] sure Maduro is a bad guy. He's. no longer in Venezuela. I disagree. wholeheartedly with the tactics in. Venezuela that what we did last weekend. That being said, I think we could have a. conversation about the fact that. Venezuelans are probably better off.

without Maduro. That being said, the. failure of the Trump administration. actually doesn't have to do with that is. the fact that they don't have a plan for. the day after. And that's become. increasingly clear, right? And I think. with Greenland, um, the same thing is. true. So you get Greenland. Okay, so we. hostily take Greenland. What do you do? They right now have free education. through college. They have three free. healthare. Um and this is these are the. kinds of things they do have sort of.

European uh style social welfare. >> Yeah. >> Um what do we do here? What do the. Greenlanders get from the United States. acquiring them? Um and as an American. taxpayer, it's incredibly it will be. incredibly expensive. All of this stuff. It's because the. Trump administration is not thoughtful. or strategic in the way they go about. anything in the world. Um this is the. kind of stuff that no one could even. focus on right now. But it would be a. huge issue were um the United States to.

actually acquire Greenland and I think. it would be a it would it would actually. be a disaster most importantly for uh. the native people of Greenland. >> Yeah. We'll leave it there. Rufus, thank. you so much for the time. I appreciate. it. >> Ryan, thank you sir. I appreciate you. having the conversation with me. [music].