BREAKING: Trump official to be hit with CRIMINAL REFERRAL

You're watching the Legal Breakdown. Glenn, it looks like Kristi Noem's. fortunes may have just gone from bad to. worse as now there may be the prospect. of perjury on the table. Can you explain. the update we just got? Yeah, Brian, it looks like members of. the Senate and House Judiciary. Committees just referred Noem to the. Department of Justice for a criminal. investigation. For what? Well, for. allegations that she lied to Congress in. her testimony just a couple of weeks.

ago. And there are multiple instances of. potential perjury that are listed. And. I'll tell you, Brian, ever since I read. the ProPublica reporting from a few days. ago setting out some of the evidence in. support of the conclusion that Kristi. Noem, you know, may very well have lied. to Congress. Um, it kind of reads like. perjury for dummies because among other. allegations, you know, Kristi Noem was. asked, I believe by Senator Blumenthal,

whether Corey Lewandowski has a role in. approving DHS contracts. Kristi Noem. answered unequivocally no. Well, guess. what? Investigative reporters found that. DHS records plus accounts given by. current and former DHS officials show. that he not only had a role, but records. show, quote, Corey Lewandowski approved.

a multi-million dollar equipment. contract at DHS last summer. And that's. just for openers. He reportedly approved. multiple contracts. It's hard to see if. this reporting and if these documents. and if these DHS officials are, you. know, accurately reflecting and. reporting what happened, this is not. going to be a difficult perjury case to. make. Now, let me hasten to add when. somebody lies to Congress in a.

congressional hearing, we don't. technically call it perjury even if the. witness is under oath, we call it a. false statement to Congress in violation. of a federal statute 18 U.S.C. section. 1001, but it is a 5-year criminal. offense and there are multiple. allegations in this new referral to the. Department of Justice by the co-chair, I. believe, of the Senate Judiciary. Committee, Dick Durbin, and the ranking. Democrat on the House Judiciary.

Committee, Representative Jamie Raskin. So, now we can certainly talk about what. happens when you put a criminal referral. in the hands of whom? Pam Bondi? You. know, suggesting that she should. criminally investigate a former Trump. cabinet member? We can certainly talk. about the prospects of a robust, full, fair, apolitical investigation. And that. was going to be my next question is is. Okay, Congress is an investigative bar. body and so even if they do find that.

there was enough evidence to send a. criminal referral to the DOJ, we all. know that this DOJ isn't going to do. anything about it and so what do the. options become here as opposed to just. allowing this thing to wither and die on. the vine? You know, the options for criminal. culpability to visit Kristi Noem are. probably slim to none and slim is fading. fast because in the hands of Pam Bondi. and Todd Blanche, the number two at the. Department of Justice, I find it. extraordinarily unlikely that they will.

actually conduct a full, fair, impartial, and apolitical investigation. of this criminal referral, but you know, pressure bursts pipes and so this, you. know, needs to remain in the the sort of. public eye and in the public square. Maybe Congress can. um launch investigations into this and. just as they did with the January 6th. House Select Committee when the. Department of Justice was either. unwilling to investigate or moving far.

too slowly, it was left to Congress to. bring it all to the attention of the. American people. That actually had the. effect of getting DOJ off the dime and. having them launch an investigation of. Trump and a number of his high. government officials for their. culpability in launching that attack on. the US Capitol back on January 6th, 2021. Um so, but you know, the reality, Brian, is this may have to await the Dems. taking control of the House uh in the.

midterms, assuming they do, and then. congressional accountability is on. And. I think the more pressure that can be. brought to bear on DOJ when the American. people are seeing evidence, you know, irrefutable evidence that Kristi Noem. may have lied to Congress over and over. and over again in her testimony, maybe. that persuades DOJ to actually move. forward with a legitimate investigation. and dare I say prosecution. But, you.

know, as of right now, I don't expect. Pam Bondi to give this a full, fair. look. Well, it's worth asking then, is. there a way that this criminal referral. could still exist into the next. administration if a Democrat takes over? Like the does the criminal referral. could it still be valid for somebody to. pick it up where Pam Bondi obviously. left it off? Brian, absolutely. Sort of. most importantly, this alleged perjury. was just committed in recent weeks.

according to the criminal referral by. Kristi Noem. What does that mean? It. means that um there are 5 years on the. clock, right? The clock begins to run. now and, you know, you can look at the. calendar. 5 years from now, if a uh a. new administration comes into power and. the president is a Democrat, there's. absolutely no reason that they can't. give this a re-look. And I suggest not. only that should they give it a re-look, they must give it a re-look because part.

of what we're going to have to do is. hold accountable all of the Trump. associated. um you know, flunkies and sycophants. Frankly, in a very real sense, they're. his criminal associates. We're going to. have to go about holding them. accountable um if we want to keep our. republic, if we want to restore our. government, you know, back to having at. least some legitimacy on the rule of law. front because the legitimacy has been. abandoned by the current DOJ leadership. So, I strongly suspect that once we get.

a law-abiding president and a a. law-allegeant attorney general, um these. cases will absolutely be pursued. You. know, Glenn, it's not just Kristi Noem. who's lied in front of Congress. I know. that people watching right now are. probably pulling their hair out because. we have seen Supreme Court Justice. nominees lie in front of Congress. We. saw all of Donald Trump's nominees say. that they're going to respect precedent, stare decisis, this idea that as it. relates to Roe v. Wade, you know, precedent is is is paramount, precedent.

is king, and we couldn't possibly vote. to overturn that because, you know, it's. built on precedent over precedent. Then. they all, of course, overturn Roe v. Roe. v. Wade. And so, you know, if you're. going to apply this standard to Kristi. Noem, why shouldn't it also be applied. to all of these other government. officials who have very clearly um lied. under oath, and yet they all seem to. have gotten away with it? You know, Brian, it should be equally. applied. You know, for whatever reason. um. you know, high government officials and.

political leadership has never never had. an appetite to hold these folk. accountable for their crimes, including. lying to Congress. And what has that. gotten us? Well, it's gotten us to. exactly where we are today. A partially. corrupt and compromised Supreme Court. courtesy of those justices who lied in. their confirmation hearing. We even have. an Attorney General in Pam Bondi who. lied to Congress, you know, just a. matter of weeks ago when she said.

there's no evidence, none, in the. Epstein files that Donald Trump did. anything wrong, committed any crime. That has now plainly been exposed as a. lie given what we have seen about a. young girl making direct allegations of. criminal conduct by Donald Trump. And. when we decline to hold these folk. accountable, we're giving permission to. tomorrow's nefarious actors to do it all. again because they've learned the. message that they can get away with just.

about anything. And that inaction by us. as a government, as a people, as a. Department of Justice has gotten us to. exactly where we are in this sad, dark. chapter in our nation's history. It's. got us in an unconstitutional war. It's. got us with a compromised and largely. illegitimate Supreme Court. It's gotten. us a Congress that refuses to perform. its check and balance against a runaway.

corrupt and criminal executive branch. It's gotten us to where we are today. So, Brian, here's a novel idea. How about we try accountability for a. change? We didn't try it in '74 with. Richard Nixon. We didn't try it in 2020. with Donald Trump. And now we're on the. verge of losing our democracy. We're. creating global chaos with a lawless and. unconstitutional war. For gosh sakes, for once, how about we try. accountability?

To that end, Glenn, you know, how about. we try accountability for once? What. does that actually look like in practice. if and when we actually get around to. it. Yeah, you know, Brian, I'm glad you. asked that because let me be clear. Even. though, look, I was a career prosecutor. and you might say, "Look, when you're a. prosecutor, everything looks like a. crime that you want to attack. When. you're a hammer, everything looks like a. nail." But But here's the thing. Um. accountability does not look like prison. terms for every single wrongdoer, for.

everybody who has committed a crime. That is a form of accountability, but. but here is what accountability really. looks like. When you have enough evidence, adequate. predication, to open a criminal. investigation, for example, for Kristi. Noem repeatedly lying to Congress. Again, that's perjury for dummies, false. statement for dummies, given what's been. reported. Accountability looks like a um. a a cadre of career law enforcement.

officials who are 100% apolitical. That. goes for FBI agents and every other. federal law enforcement agent. It goes. for all of the prosecutors who might. come in contact with an investigation. that involves a political person. As. long as the investigation that is. conducted is fair, impartial, guided. only by the evidence and the. Constitution, um and it it just completely divorces.

politics and ideology from the. investigation. And all the evidence that. is amassed is presented to the grand. jury, and then you have, you know, check. number one, the grand juror sitting as. the conscience of the community deciding. whether there's enough evidence to. indict, whether there's probable cause. that a crime has been committed, and you. can identify the person who has. committed it, then you indict. Then you. go to trial. You litigate pretrial. motions, but ultimately you go to trial.

Then you have check number two, Brian. You have people sitting in a sitting in. a wooden box, the trial jury, again, sitting as the conscience of the. community. That is we the people making. these most consequential decisions about. guilt or innocence. And once you deliver. an apolitical case to those 12 people in. that wooden box, you live with the. results, win, lose, or draw, conviction, hung jury, or acquittal, not guilty. verdict. You live with those results.

That is what accountability looks like. You run the process all the way through. to the end in apolitical. fashion, and you live with the results. That's the way the system works. That's. the only way accountability can be. achieved, and let me add, not. necessarily just as a footnote, uh but. as an important coda to all of this, once you present those trial jurors with. evidence of what Kristi Noem did,

they're going to convict her in a DC. minute if the case happens to be tried. in DC because the evidence is there. So, accountability, as I've just described. the process, probably 95% of the time. will result in guilty verdicts and. perhaps prison terms. But that is of. less consequence than running the you. know, the entire process um the the. whole way through in apolitical fashion. All right. Well, look, uh good to see. the first steps of this, and even though.

we won't expect any movement from Pam. Bondi, the reality is that uh that at. some point there will be a Democratic. Attorney General uh who won't put blind. allegiance to uh you know, these Trump. administration officials above the law, and uh and this criminal referral, um if. and when it's sent to the DOJ, will. still exist at that point for somebody. who actually uh adheres to the. Constitution, adheres to the law, where. they can pick it up. So, we will of. course stay on top of this uh and all. other legal news. So for those who are. watching, if you'd like to follow along,

the best way to do that is to subscribe. to both of our channels. I'm going to. put the subscribe links right here on. the screen. It's 100% free to subscribe, but a great way to support our work and. independent media. So again, those links. are right here on the screen. Just click. on them and hit subscribe. I'm Brian. Tyler Cohen. And I'm Glenn Kirschner. You're watching the Legal Breakdown. >> [music].