BREAKING: Trump, Bondi get the Epstein news they FEARED MOST

Some bombshell news here as some of. Epstein's co-conspirators have now been. revealed. The revelation came as. lawmakers were allowed to view the. unredacted Epstein files, which by the. way, were largely still redacted, and. began asking the DOJ questions about why. certain information was hidden because. as it turned out, these were not victims. who were being protected, they were the. opposite. They were the co-conspirators. And these lawmakers started speaking out. publicly and pressured the DOJ into. doing what Pam Bondi and Todd Blanche. and Donald Trump were so desperately. trying to avoid doing, which is to.

reveal the identities of the scumbags. who they were trying to protect. Here, for example, is Ro Khanna reading the. names aloud on the House floor. Congressman Massie and I went to the. Department of Justice to read the. unredacted Epstein files. We spent about. 2 hours there. and we learned that 70 to 80% of the. files are still redacted. In fact, there were six wealthy, powerful men that the DOJ hid for no.

apparent reason. When Congressman Massie and I pointed. this out to the Department of Justice, they acknowledged their mistake and now. they have revealed the identity of these. six powerful men. These men are Salvador Navarro, Zorab. Mikeladze, Leonid Leikin, Nicola Caputo, Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayem, CEO of Dubai. Ports World, and billionaire businessman.

>> And it's not just that list. Another. newly unredacted file offers up an. account from a victim where she lays out. who had knowledge of Jeffrey Epstein's. activities and finances. It says, quote, "List the names and addresses of all. persons who are believed or known by. you, your agents, or attorneys to have. any knowledge concerning any of the. issues in this lawsuit and specifically. the subject matter about which the. witness has knowledge. Jean-Luc Brunel, Les Wexner, Mark Epstein, Donald Trump, Ghislaine Maxwell, David Copperfield,

Ghislaine Maxwell, and someone with the. last name Cunningham. Any of those names sound familiar to. you? And I just got to say, I find it so. curious that the DOJ made all of these. little mistakes where not a single. name of a single. co-conspirator was unredacted. They. managed to bat a thousand on redacting. the names of the men who associated with. Epstein. Don't you find that interesting. how they made all those mistakes? Literally every single mention of a.

co-conspirator just so happened to be. accidentally redacted. That is quite the. coincidence and sure is convenient for. those co-conspirators, huh? But hey, I'm. sure it was just an honest mistake every. single time it happened, 100% of the time. And so now, yet again, Todd Blanche and. Pam Bondi and the DOJ are left looking. like absolute fools because remember, Blanche said this just days ago. You. said this is the end of the Epstein of. your review of the Epstein files. So, just to clarify, or.

is the public going to learn the. identities of the men who abused the. girls. with the information that you're. releasing? And if not, why not? And then I have a quick. follow-up. I mean, you just baked in an. assumption into your question that I. have never said and that I don't know to. be true. Is the public going to learn. about. men that abused these girls? Like, what. does that mean? I don't understand what. that means. Well, I mean, they're the men who abused the young.

women at through Epstein's. um through Epstein's. >> we said in July, um and it remains as. true today as it was in July, um if we. had information, we meaning the. Department of Justice, about men who. abused women, we would um we would we would prosecute. them, right? We talked about the work. that we're doing. That's why I said. that. There's I said this earlier, there's this built-in assumption that. somehow there's this hidden tranche of. information of men that we know about.

that we're covering up or that we're not. we're choosing not to prosecute. That is. not the case. I don't know whether there. are men out there that abused these. women aged about as well as milk in the. sun. And it wasn't just Blanche. FBI. Director Kash Patel testified under oath. that internal files contained no. credible information that Epstein. trafficked these girls to anyone other. than himself. Uh who, if anyone, did. Epstein traffic these young women to. besides himself? Himself. There is no credible. information.

None. If there were, I would bring the. case yesterday that he trafficked to. other individuals. And the information. we have again is limited. >> So the answer is no one? For the information that we have. In the files. In the case file. So, which is it? Was there no information to. suggest that anybody else was involved. or are there suddenly plenty of examples. of co-conspirators that have presented. themselves in these files? Take all the. time you need with that one. Now, let's. be clear about what's happening here. This administration is engaging in a.

cover-up at quite literally every single. turn. From the fake phase one influencer. binders last winter to Pam Bondi saying. that the files were ready to be released. and then never getting released to the. blow-up with Marjorie Taylor Greene to. Trump summoning Lauren Boebert to the. situation room to prevent her from. signing the discharge petition to all. these DOJ officials swearing up and down. that Epstein apparently trafficked a. thousand girls to no one to refusing to. release the files by the December 19th. deadline to now redacting the name of.

every single co-conspirator and only. revealing them once they got called out. publicly. Literally every step of the. way, they have shown that they will go. to the wall to protect not the victims, but the perpetrators. It is as. disgusting as it is obvious. We are. witnessing the biggest political. cover-up in US history, one that makes. Watergate looks like nothing at all. And. the fact that they are still trying to. hide the truth is all the evidence you. need that they have absolutely got. something to hide. You're watching the No Lie Podcast. Next.

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Thank you for having me back. So, today. was quite a big day. You had the. opportunity to see the unredacted. Epstein files. Can you explain what was. the most striking part of what you saw. today? How much of it was still redacted? The. reality is that the FBI and a lot of the. grand jury transcripts that were sent to. the DOJ were already redacted. So, what. we were seeing was. some unredacted portions, but I'd say 70. to 80% was already redacted, and that's.

in violation of our law. The law. requires the FBI and the. US attorneys to unredact the information. before sending it to justice. So, is. that going to be rectified? Absolutely. We're. going to be pushing in court and through. the Pan Bondi hearings and potentially. through impeachment to make sure that. there is action that's taken and that. those we get the actual files. But, there's also a sense of rot and.

cover-up. I mean, there were six men. that Thomas Massie and I identified. whose identities were protected, and. those need to be released. There's no. explanation for why their pictures were. blotted out, why their names were. protected. And the the reality is, while. the British monarchy is having an. existential crisis, you have the king. actually making statements, while you. have the British government almost ready. to fall, while Norway's monarchy is. having an existential crisis, here there. has not been accountability in America.

I mean, you've got Lutnick still as the. Commerce Secretary. You have someone. who's the Secretary of the Navy who was. on the Epstein plane not having to. answer questions. And you've got all. these elite big tech names, real estate. names, people in Hollywood who just have. their head down and are hoping that. they'll escape scrutiny. It's time for. the United States of America to have the. kind of accountability for the Epstein. class that we're seeing elsewhere in the. world. How does Pam Bondi and the DOJ justify.

redacting these people's names? Because. I'm going to read the the plain text of. the law. It says, "No record shall be. withheld, delayed, or redacted on the. basis of embarrassment, reputational. harm, or political sensitivity, including to any government official, public figure, or foreign dignitary." So. again, how can they justify these. redactions? Well, they can't. And we discovered six. redactions that were blatantly illegal. done by the Department of Justice. But. the broader issue is that they have an. obligation at the FBI and with the grand.

jury documents to unredact them before. sending them to Justice. So my guess is. Pam Bondi's going to say, "Well, with. some of these documents, that's what we. received." But the law is very clear. that the. redactions need to be eliminated even at. the level of the FBI. And we know that. the FBI went through redacting Donald. Trump's name. So they're doing the exact. opposite of what the law requires. There was an email that was released. back in December. And it was from two. folks who worked law enforcement.

officials who worked in the violent. crime section in the crimes against. children human trafficking unit. And in. those emails, they talked about the. existence of 10 co-conspirators. and grand juries that had been served. for those co-conspirators. Three were in. Florida, one was in Boston, one in New. York, one in Connecticut. I'm assuming. if these prosecutors felt strongly. enough to put in writing that these. people were co-conspirators in this. case, that they didn't do it completely. baselessly. And so did you have the.

opportunity to follow any of those leads. based on those previously released. emails? Yes, and that's what we're saying. There's six men who are named whose. So those are those are correlated with. that email? They're correlated with that. email and similar documents. Now, some. of the co-conspirators again are women. and my guess is that they've redacted. all the women. I'm not saying that all. the women are survivors, but there may. be some overlap between survivors and. co-conspirators. There are maybe other. women who were actually guilty who they. shouldn't have redacted, but certainly.

they shouldn't be redacting men. And in. just two hours Massie and I identified. six men. with their pictures, who they were. protecting. A couple of them pretty. prominent, and that certainly shouldn't. be the case. When you saw that that there were at. least six names that were redacted that. shouldn't have been. did you have any conversation with any. law enforcement officials, any any DOJ. officials who were there? Well, the DOJ officials who were there. were actually helpful. They were.

ministerial. They were just helping us. do the searches and they did their job. I mean, the problem is that this order. of who to protect came up from much. higher. And what we're going to do is. give the DOJ. a chance to to correct it not just with. these six men. The I think they will on. that. But the broader issue is how are. we going to get the files released which. were redacted perhaps at the FBI or at. the grand jury itself, uh, where it. wasn't the Department of Justice lawyers. going through it and redacting, it was. redacting the information they were.

getting and that needs to be unredacted. at the agency level. There was also news that, uh, Ghislaine. Maxwell is seeking clemency in exchange. for basically giving her side of what's. going on. There was also some reporting. that she would be able to clear Donald. Trump in exchange for clemency and so I. think that's pretty obvious in terms of. what that is, just a pretty blatant quid. pro quo. Your reaction to this idea that. that one of the two named people in all. of this is now, you know, that there is.

that there is some probability that she. could actually be pardoned or granted. clemency, um, uh, you know, in exchange for giving Trump. whatever information that he wants. Well, I was at her deposition. It was. shameful. She needs to be sent right. away, immediately, back to a maximum. security prison. She basically told the. committee she knows other rich and. powerful people who raped underage. girls, but she's not going to share that. and if she is going to plead the fifth. unless she's granted clemency. And we. know that for nine hours she was willing. to answer questions for Todd Blanche.

because she wants, uh, a pardon from. Donald Trump and yet she's not willing. to answer the basic questions about. Donald Trump or the other men implicated. to our committee. Uh, and she there's no. reason that she should be in a low. security prison. Do you presume that the. same information that she's holding. right now, that she's trying to dangle. in exchange for a pardon or clemency, could also be found within the Epstein. files so that we don't have to go. through the disgusting step of releasing. one of the co-conspirators of the sex. trafficking ring?

Not only do I believe it, I know it, uh, to be true because I've talked to the. survivors' lawyers. They are not. releasing the 302 forms. Well, we May. ask you and I harped on the 302 forms so. much that they released them, but they. basically released redacted versions. Then they said, "Okay, come see the. unredacted versions." We get there and. it's the unredacted version is the. redacted version. Then I asked the. Justice Department, "Well, why is that?". They said, well, it's our hands are. tied. We This is what we got. Our job. was just to enter it. Some of the. redactions the Justice Department did. was to protect survivors. But the.

fundamental issue is they got redacted. files to begin with. And we know, like I. said, that the FBI was working on. redactions at Trump's orders. They even. admit it for months. At what point, and we speak about this. every week when we ultimately get to. this topic, but at what point. do you deploy the the. you know, break glass scenario of naming. some of the names themselves right from. the mouths of the survivors if the DOJ. is so hell-bent on protecting these. people and won't do it themselves?

The survivors certainly can. You know, the six men I don't think is going to be. the the. only thing the American people want. because some of these are foreign-born. Some of these are people who are. prominent but not. as prominent. I mentioned them just to. show that they're protecting a group of. people. But the real information is in. the redactions. And. they're you know, the that only people. who know are the survivors. It's putting. a huge burden on the survivors.

to say that. And so what Massie and I. are going to do is continue to fight. Look, no one gave us a chance to pass. this thing. We passed it. Then no one. gave us a chance that we were going to. get the files released. We've gotten. files released that are literally. bringing down other countries'. governments. We've gotten files released. that have exposed the elite in Silicon. Valley and finance and Hollywood in our. country. And so we're going to continue. fighting for the other 50% and it's. uphill, but so far we've succeeded. beyond what anyone thought was possible. Have you seen or are you familiar with.

or aware of any existing government. officials in this country who are. implicated in the Epstein files whose. information has not yet been released? Not government officials, but I am aware. of other senior business officials whose. information has not yet been uh, released. But, uh, in what we saw today, uh, not government officials. Now, there. are survivors who have talked to me, who. have shared stories about other. government officials uh, being. implicated. Uh, but that was not.

something I saw today in the files. Okay. And, um, how much confidence do. you have that when Pam Bondi comes, uh, and testifies at the House on Wednesday, that she's going to be uh, cooperative. enough to get, you know, any any. accurate information? She's going to face uh, a barrage of. questions not just from the left, but. from the right. Look at the three. cabinet secretaries who are losing. confidence in this government, and uh, I. don't know who's in the most danger. Let. me probably should be given that his. name is all over the Epstein files, and.

given that he was having business. dealings, allegedly, with Epstein uh, after Epstein was a convicted pedophile. You know, I don't understand how in. Britain you could have a whole. government topple based on Mandelson, and here you have a commerce secretary. and no action. And then Pam Bondi, a lot. of Republicans are upset that she has. been less than transparent with the. Epstein files. And Christine Noem, I. mean, there are Republicans who believe. that what she's done in abusing uh, ICE. uh, is totally unconstitutional. So, you. have a cabinet that really is coming.

apart for Donald Trump, and I do. believe, and we've discussed this. before, Brian, that the Epstein files. was the turning point for Donald Trump, the moment that historians will say his. uh, administration, his personality, his. coalition started to unravel. Well, you. know, the thing that bothers me with. with this idea that Pam Bondi is to. blame is that Pam Bondi is is not acting. uh, independent of Donald Trump. She's. an appendage of Trump. She's an. appendage of the executive branch. That's that's not just a benefit of her. being there. It's why she's there. It's. the whole reason for her being there as.

attorney general. And so, is there is there some acknowledgement. even from the Republicans who are losing. faith in Pam Bondi that Pam Bondi is. nothing more than an empty suit, a. vessel for Trump to be able to to give. you know hand down his edicts like that. he's the one in charge of everything. here? Yes, ultimately it is Donald Trump and. and you know from the first term Donald. Trump learned his lesson that you can't. have someone even as independent as Jeff. Sessions. He really resented the fact. that Jeff Sessions and then the Deputy. Attorney General who became the Attorney.

General were somewhat independent and he. said I'm going to have my. total lackeys there and he got that with. Pam Bondi but there's anger at her. because the Donald Trump's betraying a. core promise of exposing the Epstein. files and it's easy to to for Maga to. say well the person really doing it is. Pam Bondi without having to fully. grapple with Donald Trump but more and. more people are realizing that this is. Trump protecting pedophiles and. betraying his central promise. Do you have any reason to believe in.

anticipation of Pam Bondi's testimony. for the house on Wednesday that some. Republicans are going to take this. opportunity not to question her on the. Epstein files but instead try and change. the narrative by you know obviously. doing something that's more favorable to. their own narrative and and use that. time to make that the main story? Sure, I think some will try to make it. about Bill Clinton. but Bill Clinton is willing to testify. He's saying let's testify in public. I'm. waiting for Donald Trump to say that but. you are going to have a number of. Republicans who are going to show deep.

concern with what Pam Bondi is doing and. that's because you've had people like. Sean Ryan whose podcast I was on who's. one of the number two or three podcaster. in the country who was a total Trump. supporter now say I don't I'm never. going to support Trump because of. Epstein and so the Republicans. understand that there is a Maga base. that is furious with what's going on on. Epstein and Laura Ingram is calling out. the Epstein issue. You know you have a. problem and I think Pam Bondi may be in. for a rude awakening when she sees. members of Congress responding to their.

base and not just being seen as a cover. for Pam Bondi. Do you have any update in terms of the. likelihood of Bill Clinton and Hillary. Clinton's testimony being. a deposition behind closed doors versus. congressional hearing out in the public? It should be a congressional hearing out. in the public, but the President Clinton. and and Secretary Clinton are agreeing. to to whatever terms Comer wants. And. really that should be a. standard that Lutnick agrees to, that.

Bill Gates agrees to, that Donald Trump. agrees to. I mean there's such focus on. President Clinton and technically and. Secretary Clinton was, you know, from. all I've seen, barely involved. And. there's not enough focus on the people. who actually. are in the emails having visited the. island or. know information about girls being. raped. And so my hope is that them. setting that standard is going to be. something that other people are withheld. to in the Epstein class. And and that's. my last question here. Is there some.

recognition by even your Republican. colleagues that if the precedent they. want to establish is that you can haul. in. former presidents and their families if. they have any involvement whatsoever. with Epstein to answer questions under. oath, that there will come a point when Donald. Trump is not in office anymore and that. those people have to abide by the. precedent that they're setting right. now. Has that dawned on these people or. do you think that they're that they're. just saying it now because it's. convenient to drag Bill Clinton in and. then they'll pull a Mitch McConnell and. change their mind once it's no longer. politically convenient for them to have.

to do so? Certainly dawned on Donald Trump. That's. why he doesn't want Bill Clinton to be. testifying. That's why he's out there. saying I don't like what I'm seeing. So. if he's saying that, I mean it's it's. it's a serious enough possibility for. him to be considering it. Well, he. knows. He knows that he's going to be. out of power and he knows that. likelihood. Robert Garcia is going to be chairman of. oversight. And what's. what's he going to do? The first thing. we're going to subpoena Trump. So the. reality is that Trump has far more at. stake on this.

He's the one who actually has to answer. a lot of the questions and I I actually. think Comer has set a trap because now. when you have Bill Clinton willing to. testify and Hillary Clinton willing to. testify, any rich and powerful person in. America can evade testimony and that is. a in my view actually a good thing. I. mean, we need a clearing of this elite. class, the Epstein class that was. callow, immature, reckless, uh that. basically uh went to an island with a. convicted pedophile, did business.

ventures with a convicted pedophile. because they were so interested in being. part of this elite because they thought. that they were above the law and until. there is a moral reckoning and a. clearing of this class, I don't care if. they're Democrats or Republicans, until. there's a clearing of this class and a. new moral beginning, we aren't going to. restore the democratic project. Fortunately, this is the one thing that. seems to unite Americans uh left and. right to take on uh this corrupt class. Well, look, this will be uh. this will be one precedent, thanks to. James Comer, that I'm happy to uh to see.

everybody abide by. So, when we get to. that point where um. uh Robert Garcia is in charge of. oversight and we have to invoke the. Comer precedent, um you know, we'll see. we'll see what he's saying then. Congressman, I say this every week and I. will continue to say it every week, but. thank you for the work you're doing. This would not happen. We would not be. here without the work that you and. Thomas Massie are doing, so I appreciate. it. Um I know that the survivors. appreciate it, my audience appreciates. it and uh and thanks for taking the time. today. Thank you, Brian, and thank you for your. work on this issue. I'm joined now by. national voting rights correspondent at.

Mother Jones and the author of the book. Minority Rule, Ari Berman. Ari, thanks. for joining me again. Hey, Brian, great. to talk to you again. Thank you. So, Ari, you are one of the premier. reporters in the country when it comes. to voting rights. You do excellent work. As we see all of these threats continue. to bear down at the hands of Trump, whether it's sending the FBI to an. election office in Fulton County to grab. all of the 2020 ballots, whether uh it's. Pam Bondi sending letter to Minnesota at. the at the the the peak of the violence. at the hands of ICE and saying we can we.

can pull back but it's going to cost you. your voting rolls. As all of this is. happening, what do you think is the most. pronounced threat that we're contending. with and and and what do you think the. impact is going to be on 2026? I think all of these tactics by the. Trump administration have a common theme. which is using the full force of the. federal government whether it's the FBI, DOJ, ICE to try to interfere in the 2026. election. And it's funny to me Brian.

this is thought of as a hypothetical. I. keep seeing all these stories. Will. Trump interfere in the 2026 election? And I would argue he's already. interfering in the 2026 election. When. you have ICE terrorizing blue states and. blue cities. When you have the FBI. raiding and getting 600 700 boxes of. ballots in a key swing county. When you. have the DOJ demanding people's personal. information to get masked agents out of.

a place. I mean I think this is already. something that could lead people to. choose not to vote for fear that they. will be harassed at the polls or their. information will be turned over to the. federal government or their secret. ballot will no longer be secret. And so. this is all part of the concerted. strategy by Trump to interfere in the. midterms and that's how we should think. about it. Not as one thing here or one. thing here but as it all being. connected. What what do you think needs.

to be done on the state level or the. federal level although you know. presumably there's not much that can be. done because Trump is in charge but what. needs to be done to kind of erect. barriers to what to what's being. attempted by by Trump right now? Democrats in the places they have power. particularly at the state and local. level need to do everything they can to. try to Trump proof the system so we. don't see more things like the ballots. being taken out of Fulton County. We. don't see more things like Trump issuing.

an executive order to seize voting. machines and people being caught off. guard. People need to think through the. kind of things Trump might do. And this. is not to be alarmist, it's not to be a. doomer, but Trump takes things to the. very edge, right? We saw him do it in. 2020, and so people need to be prepared, for example, for him to invoke the. Insurrection Act, to claim a national. emergency, to say that voting is so. crooked we have to take the machines and. the ballots and and other things like. that. He can't unilaterally do it on his.

own, but I think we need to be prepared. for Trump to push the system as far as. it'll go if he feels like he's losing. power. And every day it looks more. likely like he will lose power, at least. his party will lose power, and that's. going to make the administration become. more and more extreme. Do you have. concerns even as we head toward midterms. right now that that we may not have a. free and fair election? I have concerns about how free and fair. it will be. I know a lot of people just. think that Trump's going to cancel the. midterms altogether.

>> I I and I don't think that's I don't. have that fear. Yeah. I don't have that. fear. The president can't unilaterally. do this, but the the actions he's taking. are very intimidating to people. And. when he does things like take 700 boxes. of ballots, to me that's as much. forward-looking as it is. backwards-looking. They want these. ballots. so they can say. "Finally we found the evidence of fraud, however flimsy that argument will be, therefore that's a predicate for us.

being more aggressive in terms of our. actions." Whether, as I said, it's. trying to seize ballots in future. elections or take voting machines or. deploy ICE or the National Guard or. something else at the polls, things that. we haven't seen in any previous. elections. These are the kind of things. that Trump is now contemplating for. 2026. I have a theory with regard to. Tulsi Gabbard because obviously she was, you know, she. caught a lot of attention because she. was at the execution of that FBI search. warrant in Fulton County, Georgia and. she shouldn't be there in theory. Well,

nobody should be there in theory because. that shouldn't have happened, but she in. particular shouldn't have been there. because her job as director of national. intelligence is to make sure that there. wouldn't be foreign interference in the. election. And so, I have a theory as to. why she might have been there and and. we've seen Trump repost, you know, crazy. Truth Social conspiracy theories about. how the Italians and the Swiss and the. Chinese are all, you know, part of some. grand conspiracy with Joe Biden, CIA, and FBI to meddle in, you know, meddle. in our elections. And so, we've seen. that kind of that kind of stuff get get.

propped up by by Trump's movement. Do. you think that that Tulsi Gabbard is. there to try and kind of legitimize some. crazy conspiracy theory like this so. that he then has. some justification to be able to say, "Look, Tulsi Gabbard just told me that that, you know, Hugo Chavez and the. Venezuelans and the Chinese and the. Italians and the Swiss all conspired. with Joe Biden to rig our elections. And. so, now we have no choice but to allow. me full oversight, full nationalized. oversight of our elections so that I can.

make sure that this this. miscarriage of justice doesn't happen. again." And then, you know, obviously do. whatever he's trying to do, which would. ultimately benefit him and his party in. the end. Do you think that there's some. legitimacy to that theory? Yes, I think. that's very plausible because as you. said, the director of national. intelligence is prohibited by law from. taking part in domestic law enforcement. operations. And her only portfolio with. regards to elections is stopping foreign. interference in elections. Now, we'll. we'll let it slide the fact that Trump.

administration has completely gutted. protections against foreign or domestic. interference in elections. But after the. raid of Fulton County, there was a very. revealing Reuters story that said that. Gabbard's people had been in Puerto Rico. looking for evidence that Venezuela. interfered in Puerto Rican elections. Suddenly they're interested in what. happens in. >> [laughter]. >> Puerto Rico, I guess. But the [snorts]. point is is that that was a That could. have That could have been a great a. great, you know, moment for the whole. country to come together yesterday at.

the Super Bowl. You know, when we have. like finally the administration cares. sees Puerto Rico for something that's. important but apparently. >> Finally we see why they why the. administration cares about Puerto Rico. >> didn't find the evidence of course of. Venezuelan interference in the election. but that was a tell that Gabbard is. preparing some kind of report for Trump. about interference in the 2020 election. I think it's very plausible they're. going to have to concoct some wild. theory about Venezuela interfering in. the election. You've already seen people.

like Mike Flynn, Mike Lindell talk about. this. It's it's in far-right election. denial circles. They could lean on. Maduro himself to admit that he colluded. in the 2020 election as a result of a. plea deal. I mean, these things sound. crazy but but once she's there. acts trying to access the ballots, look. at the FBI raid. It raises a lot of unsettling questions. about where this is all heading and I. absolutely think that Trump is going to. seize on any kind of accusations to try.

to interfere in the midterms and that's. why I thought the presence of Gabbard. and the raid in Fulton County was so. disturbing cuz it's clearly a pre a. predicate for more extreme action by the. administration. And the reality is he. has these people lined up. I mean, we. know Maria Corina Machado, the. opposition leader in Venezuela, is you. know, wrapped around Trump's finger to. the point where she even gifted him her. Nobel Peace Prize. Obviously, Maduro's. regime his his vice president who's. currently in power is only there.

expressly because she's willing to. participate in any way that Trump wants. her to participate whether that means. gifting. American oil companies oil or a you know. laundering whatever. you know conspiracy theory. gives him some justification. to. engage in some election interference. moving forward. He's collected all of. these different people around the world. who need something from him, need. something from the United States and so. will be perfectly willing to do what.

Trump already tried to do once which is. to use Zelensky for example to to serve. as as a way to launder some dirt on Joe. Biden. Like this isn't even theoretical. to your point. Like we've seen we've. seen this happen. Trump got impeached. over this exact thing where he's where. he's perfectly willing to use foreign. leaders to give some information that he. can use to weaponize against his. political opponents and benefit himself. Yeah, I mean I think what we know from. Trump is that he's 100% transactional. and he'll use whatever kind of leverage.

we have and that's true on the the. foreign front and it's also true on the. domestic front. And what really makes me. nervous is that all the people that. might have stood up to Trump in 2020. have been replaced. I mean there's you. can't imagine anyone in the White House. today standing up to Trump and saying. don't seize the voting machines. Don't. invoke the Insurrection Act. All of the. crazy things he wanted to do, he was. somehow talked off the ledge not by a. bunch of moderates but by people like.

Attorney General Barr, right? Or Mark. Milley or whoever it may be and Pam. Bondi is not going to stand up to Trump. Tulsi Gabbard is not going to stand up. to Trump. Pete Hegseth isn't going to. stand up to Trump. They were put in. there specifically because they wouldn't. stand up to Trump and that's why I think. the possibility of Trump interfering in. the midterms in a more dramatic way than. he tried to do in 2020 is very much on. the table because there's no one to.

restrain him right now and he knows that. sooner or later he's going to have to. leave. And so I I the last thing he. wants is to spend his last 2 years in. office being investigated over and over. by a Democratic senator, a Democratic. house. You know, Ari, we have heard. Steve Bannon, for example, come out and. say, "Damn right, ICE is going to be at. the polls." And my concern with with. these these troop deployments across the. country is not just that you know, that. they are dangerous and unconstitutional,

but also that Americans become. normalized to this idea of, you know, boots on the ground. And we know that if. Trump had boots on the ground in 2020, for example, when he wanted to seize the. voting machines and he had moderating. forces like Bill Barr, which is a crazy. thing to say, but you know, Bill Barr. wasn't going to participate in in this. whole, you know, bogus. conspiracy theory about there being. fraud in the election. He himself called. it But, you know, Trump has. replaced Bill Barr with Pam Bondi and. now he has boots on the ground all over. the country with these ICE agents who.

are a low a lawless rogue police force. that's answerable to him and they act. with impunity. And so, do you have any. reaction here to what we've heard from. Steve Bannon in terms of, you know, using these ICE agents who again, answerable to Trump, don't feel like the. law applies to them, are ill-trained, ill-equipped to to deal with, you know, domestic any domestic disputes, that. those people are going to be the ones. that Trump decides to deploy to the. polls? Yeah, and and my concern is that ICE. doesn't even need to be at the polls for.

it to have a suppressive effect. If ICE. is doing operations in blue states and. blue cities, basically making them. occupied territory in the run-up to the. election, that's going to scare some. people away from turning out. And so, having them at the polls would be a. dramatic escalation and one that I think. would be very questionable legally in. terms of their ability to be there. But. even just having them around Right. now, but certainly in the run-up to the. election, is something that's very.

concerning. And I believe that that's. something that Democrats should add to. their list of demands in terms of. agreeing to any kind of DHS funding. deal. They should say make clear that. ICE has no role with regards to. elections, but also we can't have ICE. operations in the run-up to elections. There's things on the books, for. example, like in the National Voter. Registration Act, you can't remove. people from the rolls 90 days before the. election. They should have the same kind. of thing with ICE to say that we don't. want any ICE activity in the run-up to.

the election, cuz we've already seen how. Trump's going to deploy this. He's going. to specifically deploy it in Democratic. areas and swing districts to try to. suppress people from voting. And it's. going to be really hard to quantify how. many people don't show up because they. don't want to deal with that level of. harassment. Last question here, Ari. What does. success look like for this midterm. cycle? And what does what does a lack of. success look like in this midterm cycle? What are you looking at to determine. whether whether we've had free and fair. elections?

I mean, success looks like people being. willing to come out and vote, a process. by which they can vote, and a process by. which their votes count. Now, that's how. things have been throughout our history, but I mean, there's a real question. about whether that's going to happen. this amount of time. And I think it's. very, very clear that there needs to be. an extremely high level of turnout and. mobilization to make those kind of. things happen. Um that if it is a very.

tight election or it comes down to one. state or one district or something like. that, it's going to be a lot easier for. Trump to interfere than if it's an. overwhelming victory. Um the way it. wouldn't look like a free and fair. election is people are afraid of turning. out in their in in the first place. There's all sorts of barriers put before. them to cast a ballot. And then. ultimately once they cast a ballot, those results are challenged if. Democrats win. And either their result. is somehow overturned, or we see a.

replay of 2020 where the results hold, but an extreme amount of stress is put. on the system. And honestly, I don't. think the American system, given where. we're at, can handle another 2020 right. now. Ari, where can folks who are watching. and listening see and hear more from. you? Uh they can read me uh at. motherjones.com. They can uh buy my. books, uh Minority Rule and Give Us the. Ballot, wherever uh books are sold. And. um they can find me uh on Blue Sky at.

@AriBerman. Well, I would highly. recommend all three of those things. I. do all three of those things. I've been. following Ari for the entirety of my own. uh career in digital political media, and I could not recommend highly enough. Ari, you do amazing work. Thanks for all. the work you're doing, and I appreciate. you taking the time today. Thanks so. much, Brian. Always great to talk to. you. Keep up the good work, as well. I'm. joined now by politics reporter at the. Texas Tribune, Alejandro Serrano. Thanks. so much for joining me. Thank you for having me. So, you wrote you put together a great. article that talks about um the Latino.

situation right now in this country. We. are seeing We saw a realignment in 2024. We're seeing something of a new. realignment right now. So, I want to. talk about that. Especially, I want to. talk about it in the context of, you. know, how this kind of came to a head. uh culturally speaking with this Bad. Bunny Super Bowl show, and how that kind. of became a politicized event onto. itself. But But before we dive into all. that stuff, can you talk about what the. lay of the land is right now in terms of. where the vast majority of Latino voters. are in in, you know, as part of this uh. political coalition?

Yeah, so I think um thank you for having. me. I think one of the um the big uh. reasons that this special election for. the Texas Senate seat has gotten so much. attention is because people are kind of. pining for uh a measurement of what you. just described, you know, how what would. how will voters react to the president's. policies? And it's it's difficult to. assess that with specifically with. Latinos because you know, it's a it's a. a big group. It's not a monolith as we. often like to say and any number of. Latinos will do any number of different. things, but I think what was remarkable.

here in this election is that some of. the biggest shifts and the swings. occurred in precincts that are majority. Hispanic and they were um. they were big swings, you know, by one. estimate they were um Mr. Taylor Revenue. captured 79% of the Hispanic vote in. this district. And why that might be is. again, any number of reasons, but some. of the the reasons that people have. pointed to is um the president's. immigration policies, perhaps the. economy, you know, sold this idea of um. you know, the economy stuff, I'll fix it. and some folks may not be feeling that.

Um I have not read much um. I guess analysis of the specifically. Texas related, but you know, nationally. there has been some surveys that. Hispanics are um souring on the. president so to speak as as people. sometimes put it. So, would you say that. that the that the realignment we saw in. 2024 has snapped. all the way back to where it was in. pre-2024 levels in terms of support for, you know, Democrats versus Republicans? You know, it's it's tricky. I don't know. and I think it's um.

and it's difficult cuz do you know if. it's a realignment because of how. remarkable it was in 2024 for the. president, but you know, at least. speaking for Texas or like analyzing. Texas, um the Texas GOP had made inroads. across the state and last year the the. border got a lot of attention, rightfully so because the president. nearly swept border counties. You know, in Texas he won 14 of 18 that are. closest to the US-Mexico border. Um but. we also know that the GOP here has been. making a lot of inroads in um urban. areas, like in the suburbs or some of.

these precincts that had been. you know, Democratic bastions and slowly. made um progress in courting those um. voters. So, I think it's It's to be. probably one of the biggest questions. this year going into November. Like is. it going to hold? And if not, what does. it mean? You know, one person kind of. described to me as Latinos who. make up the majority of the population. in Texas are kind of like the power. brokers who don't know it yet. And I. think this election is definitely going. to demonstrate how that is. In your. reporting, have you heard from any.

Republican officials who've expressed. some degree of alarm over the situation. unfolding right now? Yeah, there's been all sorts of. of takes, I think, from from, you know, both sides of the aisle in response to. this election, but I think one thing. that has become kind of clear from from. It seems like Republican leaders is that. it can't be ignored, right? Like special. elections are unique, and especially. this one was on a Saturday following. very cold weather in Texas. You know, we. were kind of like locked in cuz of.

everything was frozen for a few days. So, that affected campaigning, that. affected early voting. But it was just. such a big swing that a lot of people. are sort of. recognizing that it can't be dismissed. Can you speak about the prospect to that. end of the new map in Texas potentially. turning into a dummy mander because, if, you know, if we if we see the same. margins that we saw in SD9, for example, kind of replicate themselves across the. state, then we may be in a world where. not only did Republicans not net the.

five seats that the map was redrawn to. net, but Democrats might actually see a. net gain of seats because the districts. were drawn too thin. Well, yeah, I tell I'll I'll tell you. that the Democrats are definitely. feeling feeling good about the prospect. that it's a dummy mander. You know, the. the state party had a press call last. week to kind of go over this, and and. they see all those seats, you know, being competitive, especially. even one swing in the Houston area. There's one in There's another one of. them in the city, but they.

their approach right now is kind of like. we're going to fight and see what. happens. So, I think that there is a. possibility, but I think, you know, there's any number of variables that go. into each election and it's going to I. don't want to be predictive, but I think. the party's definitely feeling. good about I think the prospect of that. happening. As it relates to Latino voters, I think. that a lot of us had thought. wrongly in the beginning that the only. issues that Latino voters care about. were issues like immigration. That was. like 10 years ago. Cut to last year, you.

know, Latinos kind of fell into the same. bucket as everybody else where it was. like the principal issue was was the. economy. And so I think that the. administration, you know, if I had to. guess, I would think that they have. would have thought that they had more. leeway. to engage in. what are pretty brutal immigration. tactics because it wouldn't have any. impact on these Latino voters who have a. lot of strength in the election because. Latino voters much in the same way of as. as, you know, white voters and black voters.

looked at the economy and economic issue. at the as the principal driver of of. where they put their votes. Do you think. that was a misstep because now we're. seeing that in fact it does have, you. know, some impact on Latino voters how. the immigration situation is handled in. this country very much in the same way. that it has some impact on how on how. white people and brown people perceive. this administration and perceive the. overreach of this administration, but. that that, you know, they weren't going. to be given a free pass by Latino voters. just because Latino voters might have. ranked the economy above immigration.

You know, it's it's curious cuz I think. again in Texas is how it's different um. there's any number of things that make. Texas unique, but but the border was. curious when it came to to what you're. describing because. I think immigration like people were. were kind of the voters some voters were. fed up with immigration. You kind of had. a situation where, you know, it's their. backyard. You look at cities like like. Eagle Pass which became this sort of. like epicenter between Texas's. instigations with the Biden.

administration and its immigration. policies and like you know states rights. to implement any number of immigration. measures or to try to combat it. Um you know and I think people. I remember I lived in Eagle Pass for. half half of the year reporting on. immigration what not and you know people. of all. political beliefs did feel kind of. neglected and how that the Biden. administration had not taken the issue. seriously and I think that kind of. also contributed to those swings we saw. in 24 but.

to your point like the the. administration the Trump administration. assumed that would give them a free. pass. I don't know I think it's also a. combination of things cuz it's also the. economy and the two are intertwined. especially in Texas. I mean you look at. the workforce and you look at especially. down in the border like you know big. industries like construction are. starting to have um. um impacts from raids and fear just. general fear in the community. My. colleagues had a story a few weeks ago. how you know some some companies can't. even get folks to show up to work out of. concern. Um.

so I think that. all this is going to lead to to more. clarity maybe in November to see how. people do vote and if there is a. response to that and obviously you know. it's hard to it's hard to kind of. everything else that's going on not just. you know kind of like a like in. Minnesota um. or in Los Angeles or in Chicago like. there's been I think a lot of action on. top of. the first year which was kind of like a. remarkable like blitz of policy changes. that changed immigration in ways that.

are still being revealed to you know. through through time. Um. so I think I hope we have more clarity. on that question in the coming months. and especially in November. Have you. heard anything from Republican officials. right now or Republican leadership in. terms of how their strategy might change. to be able to. um. to grab back some of you know what very. much looks like a rapidly departing. uh uh contingent of their coalition? Yeah there's been mixed signals. I mean, one thing that we're starting to see.

here on the ground coming, you know, like Texas politics is sort of. uh. um affordability and labor. Like, it's. something that both parties are talking. about, um which is kind of new. Um. you know, like the governor just rolled. out some endorsements from unions. Um. and they're celebrating them. And. in. in some instances, when just looking at. the GOP side, there has been some. doubling down on the like sort of MAGA. messaging, which is also interesting. I. mean, it's primary season, you know, so.

kind of makes sense. But also some. criticism some people had of um Beto. O'Rourke in the race was that, you know, the GOP candidate ran it sort of like a. primary, even though it was supposed you. know, it was more of um of a general. election type of situation. Um. meaning, you know, socially conservative. issues and whatnot. So, that doubling. down has been curious. Um. and I don't I don't know if there's a a. bigger strategy shift. Um. but I it it does seem like this this. election at the very least changed the.

conversation. So, we we watched as the whole Super. Bowl situation, the halftime show with. Bad Bunny, Republicans basically tried. to to negatively polarize um the. halftime show. And obviously, they held. counter programming with Kid Rock. There. was a very obvious um. uh race-based component to all of this. Um Megan Kelly is on her crusade saying. that, you know, you got to speak. English. And we don't want to see any. other flags. And it's America first, rah. rah rah. Do you think that's going to.

complicate Republicans' plans in Texas, for example, where instead of making. inroads, you know, they're they're. taking one of the biggest Latino. superstars in the world, but certainly. among, you know, the the. Spanish-speaking community, which also. exists in Texas, and turning him into. the enemy? Um yeah, I don't know if it's going to. affect um election results, so to speak, but um. it does appear, you know, like. everywhere Bad Bunny is really popular. here. Just, you know, having lived here, whenever he comes through, he sells out. concerts. Um,

and I think it also kind of gets to the. like the nuance of voters, right? Like I. don't know if if that's going to be the. issue that changes anyone's mind, but I. do think it is a kind of almost another. example of all the tensions going on. right now. Um, cuz you know, especially our state. leaders, some of them were were. communicating, you know, posting on social media for people to. turn into the counter-programming and. whatnot. Um, so yeah, we'll we'll see on that. I. mean, one might think from a political. perspective that if you are are seeing. swings as high as, you know, 50 points.

from voters who had previously voted for. you now are defecting to the other party. and they're becoming one of the largest. voting blocks in the entire state, that. taking. like the biggest musical artist in that. community, of that community, and. vilifying him doesn't seem like a very. sound political strategy in an election. year, no less. Yeah, we'll see it. We'll see what. happens if there's any shakeout. Also, I. mean, it's a long way till November. Yeah. And and finally, let's finish off with. this. Are there any races that you're.

keeping an eye on that might also offer. some insight into into these shifts in. very much the same way that this Senate. District 9 race did with uh, Taylor. Remmert winning prior to midterms, so. that we just have a little bit more more. data points than we had before. I mean, I think writ large is all the. statewide Texas races. Um, you know, no. Democrat has won one in since 1994, and. um, the last time they came close was in. 2018, which was also the midterm year. response to, you know, the first Trump. administration when Beto O'Rourke came.

real close to unseating Senator Ted. Cruz. So, I think that, you know, there's there's numerous, there's. obviously the top of the ticket with the. senatorial. uh, race, the Senate race, but um, you. know, there's also other under other. contested elections for state state that. are kind of coveted roles here, you. know, some like officials win those and. then stay in those positions for a long. time and. Democrats are hoping that this might be. the year. All right, well, we will leave it there. Alejandro, for folks who are looking to. read your work, where can they go?

texastribune.org. Great. Well, I'll put that link on the. screen and also in the post description. of this video. Thank you so much for the. work you do and for taking the time. today. Great, thank you for having me. Appreciate it. >> To listen to the audio version of this. episode, click the link right here on. the screen and please make sure to. subscribe and of course to see more. video content, that subscribe button's. on the screen as well. >> [music].