Why are Chinese microdramas so addictive? - Asia Specific podcast, BBC World Service

Brainrot is the term to describe mindlessly. scrolling low quality content online. And Eunice, this endless scrolling. It's transformed the way dramas are produced. That's right Mariko. In the past five years, the total revenue for the ultra short micro drama in China has just exploded. This kind of one to two minute-long shots. They're really attractive, popular. And now they're forming a 14 billion US dollar industry. And all this success is bringing growing scrutiny from Chinese regulators.

And just like many other industries, AI is posing a big opportunity, but also a challenge. So we're asking, will micro dramas take over as the dominant way we watch entertainment? I'm Mariko in Singapore and this is Asia Specific from the BBC World Service. Twice a week we bring you Asia Pacific stories unpacked by those who know them best.

Well, I have David Kwok in the studio. He's the founder and CEO of Tiny Island Productions here in Singapore, and he works very closely with Chinese companies to produce micro dramas, among other things. Welcome to Asia Specific. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. I also have Eunice Yang. She's a reporter for the BBC's Chinese language service, who's been looking into the impact of AI on China's micro dramas. Welcome to the pod, Eunice. Hi. Hi. Thanks for having me.

So, Eunice, let's start with what micro dramas are. I know they've been so huge, so probably most of our audience have seen it. But in case they haven't, can you just explain. what exactly they are and how they started? For Chinese audience, it's something that's going to pop onto your phone. while you are scrolling on Douyin, etc. it just pops everywhere. Douyin, it's the Chinese website, Chinese version of the TikTok. It's this kind of very ultra short, probably 30s long video that's going.

to be telling about all the fairy tales or just these stories, etc. but some of my interviewees who have joined the industry. since 2020 told me that he joined the industry back in 2020, when the micro drama was still a thing. In 2022, it got more into a comprehensive industry itself. It began to create a video story within itself. And in the past few years, and as the world has just seen, the China has been producing the micro drama.

for a long time that they are not just affiliated one affiliated, subject to the online novel website. Instead, it become a more comprehensive independent industry, creating the video the very short stories on its own. That's the short drama. So David, this industry has exploded, hasn't it? I mean, I was reading the stats that it went from ¥1 billion in 2020. to ¥100 billion five years later. So that's about 150 million USD in 2020 to $14 billion last year.

And not only has it overtaken the traditional film industry, it's growing rapidly. Why do you think they are so popular? Okay. In my opinion, the the young generation, especially this generation, their attention span is much shorter, right? For the first two seconds, if it's not interesting, right, they just scroll it away. Uh, as compared to what is it, film or TV?

You know, I think the, the new generation find it hard to sit. through that that long hours, you know? But is it only I mean, you mentioned young people. and I guess their attention span is not, you know, very long. But I also noticed quite a lot of old people on public transport here. Or like I think our colleagues in Indonesia were doing a story about. how they're like middle aged men in Indonesia having this like fan community. of Chinese micro dramas. So do we know who's, who's watching? Okay, so now, to be honest, even my dad stopped watching traditional TV.

He. He watches micro drama on a big TV screen, right? Okay. Okay. On their. On his phone. No, no. On on his phone. He projected onto (the TV). Yeah. And he watched it there. Right. So, uh, why the algorithm, right. Actually tracks all your behavior. And the script is actually written based on. when you watch what you like to watch what when you do not want to watch. So, uh, it captures especially, you know,

the, the people who are retiring, they, they have nothing to do. Right. Uh, uh, so, so there's a huge, uh, market for older people as well. But do you think this is also about the themes that they cover? Because I have to admit, both of you, I had to actually hide some of those like platforms which kept showing up. on my Facebook or other timelines because I started feeling. like I'm wasting too much time just watching these things. And I just wonder because they're always quite dramatic.

It involves a lot of dramas and anger and emotion. Is that. Is that what makes them addictive? I think they the stories, they know how to feed the people's needs and fantasy, like, like, especially for, uh, the, the blue collar working crowd, right? I mean, the, the older people as well. Uh, no, it's always about, you know, the Cinderella story, somebody who's poor and struggling. and suddenly your dad is a billionaire, you know, or, or,

or or you are, uh, not some handsome guy, but you work in an office with all the pretty girls, and your boss kind of likes you and and keep wanting to date you. I mean. Everyone's kind of fantasy. Yeah. So so it's kind of, uh, feeding everybody's fantasy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why do you think, Eunice? Because, I mean, the Chinese government has actually been restricting some of those content.

You know, what kind of micro dramas they can produce. But why do you think they became so popular, so addictive? One of the all of them. I've talked to the actors, actress, producer, investor of the industry in China and all. I kept asking them the same question, like, why do you think people are paying more to the industry? Why this industry is here? Like why people need micro dramas, especially in China? Because in China it grew a lot. And everybody told me the same thing. That emotion that everyone told me that whatever way you get emotion,

but the emotion has to be there. Like, what kind of emotion is it? Romance, anger, etc. as long as you got emotion, you got a sale. For example. Um, they told me one actor told me that, uh, every time he tried to be placed himself into this actor, he's like, okay, if I were the audience, what my audience want to say, like what my fans is gonna, what my follower, what my fans want to see me do. Like it's definitely going to be something they cannot do.

in their real life. So that's going to be slamming on. your boss. Get justice done. So that's something that's not doable. Like in the traditional film, in a traditional drama is going to be a long shot for them to do so. But however, in the micro drama, it's like every time you see the clip, it's already a slam on your boss. I was like, and the actor was like, okay, everybody want to see that? But do you think, I mean, this model has been copied elsewhere, hasn't it, outside of China? You know, I've seen American companies making it.

and you work quite closely with them as well. But also South Koreans are in on it as well. Are they growing as rapidly outside of China as they have within China? Well, of course, in fact, uh, some of the top platforms, uh, micro drama platforms in the North America, they are behind them. They are all Chinese, right? Like, like ReelShort, right. For example, it's very popular. They actually apply the similar formula, especially now they are growing, uh, to the Latin America, uh,

and those places that speak Spanish, Italian, you know, they're very popular. Yeah. How are micro dramas produced? Are they, you know, cheaper, more expensive to produce. compared to traditional dramas that I grew up watching? Oh, yes. Because, you know, it's they don't use. like, uh, famous actors, right? Like, they, they shoot a whole lot of, uh, sequences. and then they edit and ensuring there's cliffhanger in,

in every one, 1.5 minutes to two minutes. Uh, ya, it's just mass production, right? Is, is, uh, at very low cost average about, uh, 180000 SGD. for about 80 episodes. Each episode is about two minutes. So in comparison to that, how much would it cost to produce like a. Of course, if you look at the Netflix series, right, it costs millions. I mean, it's much, much higher. And what surprises me, like the other day, I was just talking to one. of the platform right outside China, right outside China, inside China.

Everybody wants free, right? Everybody wants free. And you only watch the ads, right? But outside China is tremendous, right? You are paying like $20 to $25 US a week for VIP unlimited watch. Right? So does that mean, you know, those actors that you spoke to, do they get paid more to play in micro dramas. or do they get about the same or do they not tell you. Get you pay like triple or four times or five times,

like compared to the traditional dramas. Some people I have talked to. Yeah. Some people I've talked to, um, there's a girl who have graduated. from some theater academy, a professional one. She wanted to be a theater actress. But however, because of COVID, nobody's going to the theater anymore. And because of the, what they call the film industry winter, the winter. for the film industry in China, they cannot get a job. They cannot get a cast. They cannot go the audience. So they turn to the micro drama because in the micro drama, as long as you are willing to take a role, you always.

There's always a role for you. She told me that as long as she has accumulated enough money, she's going back to the theater because in the theater she got paid nothing. And her salary is always delayed in the theater. So she goes to the Hengdian to go for the micro drama. and to get a salary down to just feed herself and then turn to the theater. And when the money has run out and she'll go back to the micro drama. Wow, that's quite a model. That's quite a cycle that she's got there. Yeah. And I want to ask about the restrictions.

that the Chinese government has recently imposing on micro dramas, because the exactly the kind of the addictive content, like, you know what David would say, you know, poor girl marrying a millionaire. and then having a Cinderella story, that kind of stuff. that's now been banned or restricted, hasn't it? So can you just talk us through what are the restrictions. that's been introduced by the Chinese government, Eunice? Oh, for the Chinese government, it just shows a strict... Really it's... the government said we are having. a really strict restriction on like how you are showing the rich people.

how you we are trying to show the gap between the poor and the rich people. However, producers from several companies told me that domestic companies. They told me that as long as you are just familiar. or you just have a great relationship with the platform. For example, the dominant, um, ultra drama, ultra short micro drama platform in China, as long as you, you're familiar with the platform, you're really in a really great way with, in a good relationship with the platform, you can have a bit of a bridge over this kind of restriction.

You can embrace it a bit just to attract more audience, because it's by showing the gap that you attract the audience, the audience want to see the gap, the audience want to see the emotion. Have you noticed the impact of these restrictions on Chinese companies, David, in terms of like them, I mean, you told me. how the market in China is getting really saturated anyway. So are they now increasingly moving out of China to produce these dramas? Yes. Uh, okay. So early January,

many of them, many, many start moving to AI. As a result. Unfortunately, the actors just now, as we speak see so fast. that their jobs are affected, right? Even for AI, beginning of this year you started, it's like just six months is getting really fast saturated, right? So Chinese companies are started looking outside China, right? So how how is AI used? Is it to replace actors.

with AI generated characters or are actors still involved. But AI is used. Okay. Sometimes it's hybrid, but the technology is getting more and more powerful. Uh, like now. I mean, there used to be a problem with martial arts and robot transformation. and crying kind of emotional acting, but like, the new Seedance 2.0 coming 2.5 soon has already have the ability to do that. So it used to be a bit unnatural that we could tell that, oh, this doesn't.

Yeah. But now that was amazing. That was amazing. And, and, uh, because of the budget used to be constrained to a lot of. very grounded kind of, uh, concept like, like family love, family ties, right? But now because of AI, you can push it. to that kind of Netflix kind of series because you can have, uh, 10000 soldiers charged across the battlefield. You can have horror story, all kinds of sci fi,

which, uh, the budget used to be a constraint and limitations, right? So this is exciting because we see the next potential growth outside China. And like I share with you, right? You can work with influencers and, and work with her and license her her face and, and make a drama. And then you can move into this. These areas haven't been explored, which is very exciting, like licensing, merchandising, product placement, etc., etc.. As we were saying earlier, if audience wants that emotion, that extra drama,

wouldn't they actually want like a real human being acting instead of AI. Okay. If you seen the recent tests. Right. It's amazing. Really. I mean, I'm not sure even some of the stuff I did, you can't tell at all. Is it me or is it AI? So I think soon the production there might be hybrid or mix, right? You no longer can tell is this real or is it AI?

I think we will reach that stage whether is it for micro drama or film. or TV, anything. Right? It will reach a stage that the line is really blurred. It's just like in the early days, you know, when we do CGI, 3D, right, 3D animation, right. Or is it oh yeah, this is CGI, right? But, you know, we have reached a stage that you can't tell. You just enjoy the content, right? I think AI will reach that stage very soon, very, very soon. I'm estimating maybe end of the year we will. Be. There. Yeah. It's very fast. Yeah.

Eunice, you've spoken to a lot of actors. How do they feel about this growing, you know, opportunity, but also a potential threat from artificial intelligence? One actor told me that he's in who now also in Hunan, because Hunan is a one of the dominant or the major micro drama. filming province in in China. So this actor told me that before the Seedance 2.0 was released, there were over four, 500 actors in together in his sole company in this company.

And after the introduction of this AI generated model and all the actors, just within one day, all of them lost their job. because they're not just because the company doesn't need them anymore. Either way, you either you turn into become. the AI, um, micro drama director or you just lose your job. The Seedance 2.0 was released by TikTok, ByteDance company. Also, it was, it's, it's an AI model for generating the videos.

as long as you go through in, um, a long prompt showing like. I want a video creating a character like this, this, this, and it just generates a video for you. Um, speaking of those actors who absolutely hate AI, do you think they would consider about licensing their image. so that they can actually work with AI to be, you know, continue being part of micro dramas? Or are they completely against the whole technology? Some just love that industry. Some have been selling their face.

because some AI need real humans face just to generate more fake faces. Some are selling their face and some just turn into become. the AI, um, micro drama director. But that's really few, very few of them. Like they're just two out of 100 is going to be. the AI general AI micro drama director, and probably just two or three out of also 100. They're going to sell their face to AI company. Do you think, David, you were saying how your father started watching.

those micro dramas, um, screening on the TV as well. Do you think this is. kind of the beginning of the end of traditional dramas. Will micro dramas be kind of the dominant way that we watch dramas, do you think? Okay. Firstly, I think the film industry is definitely very badly affected. I mean, not just outside China, but the latest I heard even within China, right? The box office is really going down, right? So what is it? AI or Mei or, or real actors.

is going to be challenging to bring the people back to the cinema. That's number one. Number two is that, uh, for sure. Uh, we still need humans, right? Because the machine can't do everything. I mean, initially people are fascinated by AI, but eventually they get tired. because it's like a formula formulated movie or show. So therefore the human parts have to come in for better stories,

better acting, you know, not just based on, uh, formulated machine kind of way. Like for example. Now currently if you see the, the AI, right slowly, you know, I can anticipate the way they fight, the way they act, you know, because they all referring to the same library after some time, you can see, okay, you know, but, uh, so, so that is where, uh, I would say the next phase have to come in. What do you think you would you still go and watch a movie in a theater,

assuming you're much younger than me? I'm a theater fan. I paid her annual membership to the, uh, to all the cinemas in in Hong Kong. Uh, but I also ask that some investor and producer in China, um, in the industry about this question, like, um, do you think it's going to reduce or do you think people are going. to, um, turn or less into the theater because of this? And the producer actually told me that it's two bunch of people.

It's a two bunch of audience they're doing. It's basically just, catagorizing, the producer says, categorizing the audience because the audience. who are watching the microdramas are never going to the theater. They were originally not going to the theater. to see the long form theater or to see the long form movie. However, for the movie fans, they're not going to see the ultra drama. And for the general audience, it's just an option for them. I have to say, I feel so old and old fashioned, still wanting to watch human actors, you know, in those long dramas.

But it's been fascinating. Thank you so much, Eunice and David. Pleasure. Thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks for having me. You've been watching Asia Specific from the BBC World Service. with me, Mariko Oi in Singapore. If you have any questions or thoughts on what we covered in this episode. or any other stories from the region, please leave us a comment below. You can also get in touch with us on email. asiaspecific@bbc.co.uk and you know the drill.

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