The billion dollar return of the K-pop kings - Asia Specific podcast, BBC World Service

You know, it's actually easier to report on North Korea and a lot safer. Talking about K-pop is probably the most dangerous thing someone can do. if you're reporting from Korea. In the music world, there are bands. and then there are global phenomena. And few, if any, are as big as BTS. The South Korean boy band has just returned after. a four year hiatus with a new album, a world tour and a launch concert backed by South Korea's government.

But can a group that once generated billions. of dollars of economic activity maintain its success? I'm Mariko Oi in Singapore, and this is Asia Pacific from the BBC World Service. Twice a week we bring you Asia Pacific stories. unpacked by those who know them best. Today I have the BBC's music correspondent Mark Savage. I also have the BBC's Korea correspondent Jake Kwon, based in Seoul. Welcome both.

Annyeonghaseyo. Wow. Impressive. Mark, let's start with you. I think it's fair to assume that most people. on this planet would have heard of BTS, but there have been away for some time. So can you just remind our audience. how they became so huge and why they had to take this break? Well, BTS have been around for a while now more. than a decade, and when they started off. they were actually kind of an experiment. because there hadn't been a K-pop band like them before.

The concept when they were put together. was that these were young men who would talk more openly. about their feelings and the things that were going on in their lives. and would be allowed to write that into their music. And that really wasn't a feature of the K-pop industry in the early 2010s. And that's one of the things that endeared them to fans in Korea. and then around the world, and you see them having this meteoric rise, particularly towards the end of the 2010s,

where they are selling millions of records. and selling hundreds of thousands of concert tickets. And as they switch more into English mode, they start having international hits like Butter and Dynamite, and they really are the ambassadors for the K-pop industry around the world. Just remind us, why do they have to take this break, though? Well, every man in South Korea has to do compulsory military service. before the age of 28. And the law changed because of BTS, because they allowed.

them to wait a little bit longer before they enlisted in the military. But eventually the day came and all seven members had to go. and shave off their hair, much to the shock and horror of their fans. and do their their time in the Army. And during that time, they they handled it very well. They staggered everybody's entry so that each member could do solo projects. and keep the band in the public's, you know, in the public's mind. But last July, Suga was the last to leave.

They went straight to LA, spent two months in the studio. and this is now the comeback of BTS after almost four years. Would you say for our slightly older viewers and listeners, it's like Elvis Presley coming back from the military? I mean, yeah, absolutely. Some people have called BTS the Beatles of the YouTube era, so that's a kind of sign of how big they are. to the demographic that listens to their music. So, Jake, you were at their comeback concert last Saturday.

What was it like? And tell us also about the venue, because it was quite special, wasn't it? Yeah, I mean, it was being held in Gwanghwamun Square. This is the square at the heart of Seoul. It is right in front of the royal palace. And, you know, BTS actually appeared on the the path. that the Kings used to walk. So there was a lot of symbolism there. And, you know, the local papers leading up to it, there was a lot of hype around it and they dubbed it "The Return of the Kings". And on the day they they have erected.

this triumphal arch, a stage that looked like it. And then it had it offered a really an amazing view. If you were sitting in the seat of the, the kind of ancient gate. and the palace behind it, and of course, the mountain that has kind of become the symbol of Korean people. So it was really full of symbolism. And it was a celebration of not only the band and the music, but of Korea itself. Yeah, I was just watching it before this recording to get into the vibe.

and it looked spectacular. But I want to ask about the figures that came out after the concert. because they were quite different, weren't they? BTS agency Hybe said there were more than 100,000 people who showed up. to that concert, but police police said 80,000. Seoul City said about 50,000. I mean, obviously it's quite difficult to have. an exact figure on things like this, but the expectation was almost more than a quarter of a million.

And shares in Hybe actually fell after this concert. So was it a disappointment, judging from the share price movement? Jake. I feel like I need to be careful here. I mean. We don't want to upset BTS fans. No. You know, it's actually easier to report on North Korea and a lot safer. Talking about K-pop is probably the most dangerous thing someone can do. if you're reporting from Korea. Yeah, there was, there was a lot of hype.

I should say, the police said that the ceiling, what they're expecting is about 260,000 people together. Uh, Seoul city even went even further, said that they could expect up to 300,000 people. I mean, this is a square that where, uh, you know, even, even an estimated million people had gathered. during some of the most pivotal moments in Korean history, like the impeachment of the president in the past. This is a place that is, you know, closely linked with the democracy movement. And we had seen those numbers before.

But when the day actually came, I think I've, you know, I've seen what I, uh, imagined is about, you know, thousands or tens of thousands of people in my immediate vicinity. And what the, the count, an official count from the police said around 40,000. So it was a lot smaller crowd compared to what was expected. And I think perhaps there was some some disappointment, of course, and there was some grumbling for sure. Uh, by the, the public, the members.

of the public who had to kind of avoid the square. But I mean, if we go into why, uh, the numbers were a lot smaller, I think it could be somewhat blamed on this hype itself because, you know, a lot of people are talking about how it's going to be crazy. The number is going to be so large. It's going to be a hassle to get around. And, you know, because that was a narrative. A lot of people decided not to come because they, they were scared. that there would be, you know, perhaps even an accident. and injuries and, you know, using the bathroom.

Of course, these small things had really scared people away. Um, it's an interesting question about whether this was a success or a failure. There was a really insightful piece in the New York Times where they said, BTS are too big to fail, but they're too big to succeed. If anybody else in the world had attracted 40000 people. to a concert in the middle of a city in the dead of night. in the freezing cold, you'd probably be quite impressed. But because BTS achievements in the past have been so big,

they're constantly measured against them. And, you know, I think if. for anybody else this would be a huge achievement for BTS. It's just kind of on the on the level of what you would expect. At their peak. I think in 2022, BTS was estimated to have contributed 0.3% to South Korea's total GDP. That's about $3.6 billion annually. I can't just imagine that. And Mark, what are we expecting from the this comeback concert as well as.

the world tour in terms of how much money they could possibly generate? And how does that compare to other big celebrities like Taylor Swift or Coldplay? I mean, this is going to be one of the biggest tours this year, if not the biggest. They're playing 82 dates. and that actually stretches into 2027 in huge arenas. You know, in London they're playing two nights. and 80,000 people each night at Wembley Stadium. And that's replicated in every city that they're going to. So the ticket prices aren't as high as going to see Taylor Swift,

which I think a lot of fans will be very pleased about. But there are estimates that they will make $1 billion from this tour, and some estimates go as high as two billion. I think that's probably a bit of an overreach. Um, but you know, once you start factoring in merchandise sales. and all the ancillary things that come around. to tour the sponsorship deals, the brand endorsements, and it is going to be a real money spinner for for their label Hybe, but also for the South Korean economy.

Jake, I have another sensitive, potentially controversial question. for you, but there have been, you know, so many more K-pop superstars while BTS was taking taking a break. Do you think there's still as huge as lucrative in the business of. K-pop, especially now that they're all in their late 20s, early 30s? I'm not even sure whether we're supposed to be calling them a boyband anymore. I think I'm going to have to enter a witness protection after this episode. Um, but, uh, yeah. No. That's right.

Uh, I mean, BTS was, you know, hitting records after one after another. They were the first Korean band to reach the top of Billboard chart. And, you know, they spoke at the UN and the white House, right? Uh, but in terms of their album sales and reaching the charts, you know, the new bands have come, you know, come out since then, like Stray Kids, you know, they broke, some of the records. by rising at the top of the Billboard album charts seven times in a row. So BTS, you know, we cannot expect them to be always the record holder.

But I think, you know, Mark compared them, quoted. how some of the media has compared them to the Beatles, you know, and I think that's a very flattering comparison. because Beatles really has become a legend, you know, decades after their their peak, they're still being referenced and they're still there forever. And I think BTS will have somewhat of a similar place. as really the face of South Korea's cultural success.

You know, them being the first to kind of, you know, uh, pave the way, uh, really is going to make a mark. And I think, you know, one person, one kind of Korea, uh, music critic I spoke to, talked about. how BTS will forever hold a space in Korean people's heart, uh, as this people who came and lifted any kind of insecurity. or feeling of inadequacy from Korean people's mind, because even after decades of economic success, there was this insecurity,

perhaps that Korean culture is somewhat lesser than those coming from the West. But if there was any doubt of that, BTS has dispelled it. Yeah, well, you and I did a whole episode on K-pop industry, didn't we? So click here to watch that if you're interested. But Mark, for viewers and listeners who might not be familiar, can you just talk us through how this business of K-pop works in comparison. to, you know, Western music industry that we're more familiar with? You know, who pays to put a band together and how do they make money?

Is it through album sales and so on? I mean, a lot of it is very similar to the Western music industry. I think the big difference for K-pop is the initial investment, that training period that people go through where, you know, a band like BTS, there might have been 20 kids and they are kids. They're teenagers who are going through this really strict regime. of daily dance rehearsals, learning English in a lot of cases, and Japanese.

And there's a huge initial investment just to put the band together, to put them through their paces there. You know, they stay within and buildings that are paid for by the record label. I have heard one estimate that per year, a record label will spend $1 million. on each member of a band. Just, you know, in terms of transport, clothing, training, physiotherapy, all the stuff that they have to do. But also there's a lot of brand endorsements, a lot of product deals, um,

and also just the content that they produce. I think one thing that the Western music industry really hasn't cottoned on. to is just how compelling the videos. and the extracurricular stuff that K-pop bands produce is. So with BTS, like the 185 variety show episodes that they've uploaded, I think it was first to V live, and then they go on to YouTube and also onto Weverse, which is a social media platform that's owned by their record label,

and that just draws people in. It makes them feel closer to the band. They see them in rehearsals, they see them eating fast food takeouts. they see them competing in challenges and just having days off. And, and obviously all of that content is then monetized. If you're on Weverse, you can pay a subscription to get stuff early. or to send DMs to the band. If it's on YouTube, then obviously ads run before it. So that's a whole revenue stream that the Western music industry hasn't really cottoned on to. Um, but that all adds up. And that's why, you know, a band like BTS,

each member will be expected to make something. in the region of between ten and $30 million each this year. Um, Jake, I'm wondering about the role that the South Korean government played. And again, I don't want to, you know, put you on the spot or anything, but, you know, please could you made it without, you know, the government support, do you think? So I think, uh, when I said some people were kind of disappointed.

or put off by what they saw on Saturday. I think it is because a lot of people saw the hand of the government. a little too much. They thought it was a little too visible. Days of leading up to Saturday. You know, all the government ministers, you know, doesn't matter which side they're on. Not even the culture minister, finance minister, health minister, they all posted on, you know, X or other social media praising the band, but not only talking about the band, but talking. about the money it's going to bring to South Korea.

The how it advances. South Korean national interest, how it is a national pride. So they really focused on these other aspects of BTS, the nationalism aspect of BTS. And I think it is, you know, it is kind of open. to debate how much the government had part in advancing K-pop. I think they do have some part in, you know, bringing economic prosperity. and having a relatively free society.

where you're not subjected to too much censorship. And then of course, uh, you know, having this internet connectivity that's everywhere. Quite early in the game. This all helped to advance K-pop and put it in everyone's hand. and made it, you know, this huge soft power success. But I think many fans see the government's role, as something that is too, perhaps extractive. They come and they, they exploit the, the artist at times.

If you remember, the World Expo. when the government was trying to host it in Busan. They had BTS be the face of its campaign. And that got a lot of criticism from the BTS fans. because they didn't see BTS being graciously volunteering themselves. to help Korean cause, they saw it as government kind of cozying up. and asking the label and the artist to advance its own agenda. And that really left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. And I think that's what people saw on Saturday a little bit as well.

Mark, you earlier talked about billboards and other, I guess, you know, Western validation of BTS and other K-pop bands in earlier years. What did you make of their comeback album? Do you notice that maybe they don't need that Western validation any longer? I mean, they're still singing the majority of the lyrics in English. I think because of the themes of the album, which tap. into Korean folk music and folklore.

People expected it would be more focused. on national identity than it actually is. And as a piece of music, I think it's incredibly good. I think, you know, they could have played it safe, and BTS were definitely accused of doing that before they went on hiatus. A lot of the big hits, Butter and Dynamite, they sound like Western songs. They're sung entirely in English. And this felt more like the BTS I remember from 2014. You know, the, the rap portion of the album,

the first five songs hits really hard. There are some great tracks. I loved Fire. and I loved Hooligan, and it was great to see Hooligan in the concert. Even if Jimin couldn't get his ski mask on properly. The the second half of the album is more contemplative. and you see them talking, you know, the BTS thing was always to be honest. with their fans about their feelings, and they're addressing the kind. of duality that they feel returning to this list, this, this huge behemoth of, of K-pop music.

And then towards the end, the album, there's a portion. that's quite, you know, it's a departure. I think Jake will know more than me, but, my sense of K-pop is that it is quite chest and. on songs like like Animal, they are talking about carnal desires. and the things they want to do to whoever they're involved with. We don't know who any of them are involved with, but. you know that that is quite a new thing and it's quite a brave thing.

But that is something, I guess, that you can do when you have their stature. And as you hit your late 20s and early 30s, you probably are thinking more about relationships and family. And that's a sign of the band growing older with their fans, which I think is a really positive step. It resonated with me. One fan I spoke to on Saturday was a 43 year old, you know, mother of two, and she came all the way. She found a babysitter for her kids, and then she came to, to see the concert. And I asked her, you know, do you do you still feel.

that same excitement you felt four years ago seeing them, uh, you know, as obviously her her life had changed. And she said that as she matured, she feels the band had matured as well. Their music had matured as well, so she doesn't see herself stopping a fan anytime soon that she expects to. To still be a fan many years in the future. So I mean, I think we're seeing that kind of growth. The band is growing with their fans. and this is one point for the longevity of their fame.

Yeah, that's a really. Nice sentiment, isn't it, growing all together. Thank you so much for talking through. some very controversial questions as well. Jake and Mark. Thank you for having us. Thank you. You've been watching Asia Pacific from the BBC World Service. with me, Mariko Oi in Singapore. If you have any questions or thoughts on what we covered in this episode. or any other stories from the region, please leave us a comment below. You can also get in touch with us on Email Asia Pacific at bbc.co.uk.

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