How do journalists cover a disputed election in Myanmar? - Asia Specific podcast, BBC World Service

Five years after a military coup, Myanmar is holding an election. Remember Aung San Suu Kyi? The Nobel laureate. whose party won landslide victories in previous polls. While neither she nor her party is contesting this time. because she and other leaders are detained. The country is also locked. in a civil war which has killed thousands and displaced many more. And voting isn't even happening in rebel held areas.

International observers say it's a sham. So why is Myanmar's military government even doing this and will it change anything? I'm Mariko in Singapore and this is Asia Specific from the BBC World Service. Twice a week we bring you Asia Pacific stories. unpacked by those who know them best. Well, today I have our South East Asia correspondent, Jonathan Head, as well as Soe Win Than, who is the editor of the BBC's Burmese service.

Welcome, both. Jonathan, firstly, let's start with what Myanmar is like, because I think it's fair to say that international attention. has shifted away somewhat in recent years. I've always wanted to visit, but then the coup happened, so I've never been. So can you, you know, tell us what it was like because you just got back from there? Yeah. I was sent to cover the first stage of. this rather unusual three stage election, Mariko. It was only my second visit since the coup. It's been very hard to go there since the military took over.

I chose to go to Mandalay. It's the second largest city in Myanmar. I'd been to Yangon after the coup, in my previous visit. Yangon's the economic hub of the country, but it feels like a little bit of a bubble. It's more prosperous than the rest of the country. The conflict these days is quite a long way from it. You don't feel it when you're there. There's slightly heightened security, but not much more. Mandalay is very different. The conflict has come very close to Mandalay. It's in all the countryside surrounding it.

Mandalay also has always been a stronghold. of support for Aung San Suu Kyi and her National League for Democracy. So I felt that that would be a good place to get a sense of how effective. the military's election plans were, what people felt about them. What I discovered being there was that there was. a very, very palpable atmosphere of fear. And that's partly because the military has passed laws. specifically criminalising any criticism of the election.

On top of all the other laws, they've passed, people there who clearly were unhappy with the election, and they signaled that many of them didn't want to vote. They certainly did not want to support. the military's own party, which has dominated this election. But on the other hand, they didn't like to say so openly. We were obviously there as a media team. We were being monitored the whole time by Police Special Branch following us all the time. So it did make it very difficult to get people's honest opinions.

Yeah, I want to get to the election and why. the military government has even bothered to hold this election. that has been criticised as a sham quite widely outside of the country. But Soe Win, I want to ask you about the BBC Burmese service, because that's quite unique to the BBC, isn't it? You have a group of reporters from Myanmar that you run out of London. Some of them are in Myanmar itself, but, you know, working elsewhere as well. Can you just tell me how the Burmese service works.

in terms of, you know, covering stories from Myanmar? The bulk of the news gathering is done by our colleagues inside the country. We have also reporters across the country, but some of them we have to pull back to Yangon. The second biggest city, where our office is, for the safety of them, because civil war is raging in their part as well. So military regimes are never friends to the free press. So like you know, they impose some restrictions on the media.

We can't deploy our colleagues freely. And also the domestic, our domestic laws, like, you know, that lay traps to the journalists. For example, one law prohibits journalists and anyone from having. or making any contact with, they call illegal and terrorist organisations. You know, when this military regime came to power, they. declared several organisations as illegal or like terrorist organisations.

But in our line of work, we need to talk to, you know, a lot of people, different people from all sides to reflect the different opinions. But even if, you are found, you know, having some contact with those group just to get reaction. or to confirm them, then you could get into trouble. So that also is the atmosphere and the circumstance. that our colleagues are operating in. It must be a very tricky situation for your reporters and yourself to navigate.

I want to talk about, you know, in comparison to the previous elections, because there was one in 2015 and then in 2020, which, of course, the Army was unhappy with the result, which led. to that military coup that we've been talking about. Jonathan, you've covered them all. You know, you talked about, kind of the the mood of fear when you were there. But I guess the difference in the mood was quite clear then. I think the point about the elections is, I mean,

the 2015 election, which I covered, was the first free election. that Myanmar had had since 1960, and it was the first one. in which Aung San Suu Kyi contested as a party bidding to win government. There'd been an election in 1990, but that was very quickly annulled. So there was an incredible amount of excitement and anticipation in 2015. I mean, it was absolutely euphoric. It was so obvious. Although the military thought their party would do well,

then it was so obvious the National League for Democracy. was going to win and they won by an absolute landslide. I think they shocked the military by how big the margin was. But that sense of belief, after so many decades of military misrule, you have to remember it wasn't just repressive. The military had also run the economy into the ground. Myanmar, before the democratic transition, sort of 15 years ago, was one of the poorest countries in Asia. It had levels of development down.

at the very lowest levels you see in sub-Saharan Africa. So there was a huge hunger and anticipation. for what might happen in 2020. I think there was a feeling that the National League. for Democracy would not do as well, because it hadn't performed as well. as many people hoped while in government, but in fact, they won an even bigger margin. And that shocked everyone, particularly the military. And it's probably one of the reasons for the coup. So when Jonathan talked about the absence of Aung San Suu Kyi,

but also the disappointment that some people felt within Myanmar. I think it's fair to say that her international reputation got damaged. quite a bit because of her handling of the Rohingya Muslim crisis and so on. Is she still popular among local Burmese population? You know, her reputation is still very high. The love for Aung San Suu Kyi is still huge. Like people even, you know, very old, people would refer to her.

as A May, which is in Burmese "Mother" because they look up to her. as someone who can stand up to the military. We have been doing our utmost to meet security and humanitarian needs. One interesting development since 2021. So when military staged this coup, you know, it's young people. who led the protest movement we call Generation Z. Generation Z, you know, they came out, they protested when their. protests were harshly cracked down, so they would go out to the, you know,

the the forest jungles and they took up arms against, they. are leading this opposition resistance movement against this military. So their path is very much different from Aung San Suu Kyi. Aung San Suu Kyi started, you know, her lifelong ideology is non-violence. But this young generation, they have charted their own path. And some young leaders said that they have full respect for Aung San Suu Kyi.

But if she is out today and if she asks them to stop, you know, holding arms against them, the military, they would respectfully refuse. So the young generation would, you know, they up until 2020, when everything, you know, everything pivoted around her. So her party also. And people rally around her. But now this young generation are charting their own path. Yeah. You talked about those young people who are fighting back, but also many have fled the country since the coup. Haven't they?

The United Nations estimates well over a million, of them have left Myanmar. And they are all resettling all across South East Asia. And, you know, I've noticed personally that there's been a rise. in Burmese nationals living here in Singapore. I spoke to one of them, who told me. why many of those Burmese nationals are moving away from the country. Ever since the coup. There has been a massive rise. in the number of domestic workers coming here because.

if they have been involved in anti-military protests. or if they have been involved in the civil disobedience movement, where they just quit their jobs in the civil service. and refuse to work for any military administration. There is not a lot of avenues for them to continue to make a living back home. So a lot of them, even if they have, they have their degrees. and they have they have a proper education, they come here to become domestic workers or work in retail,

because what they earn here is way more than. what what they can earn back home to support their families. And because there's military conscription that's happening soon, that's already happening now, actually, there's a lot of adoptions back home in, even in rural areas. So that lady told me that she and her family, as well as her friends, they are all against the Junta rule. But Soe Win, can you tell me, are there, you know, parts of the Burmese population. who actually support the Junta regime, and if so, why?

Yeah, they do have some kind of support base mine like, you know, military was once a prestigious and respectable organisations. because they were born with the independence movement. So when we were growing up, you know, that's the institution we would look up to. Young people aspired to join the military. So they are genuine. They was genuine love for the military once. But that has eroded since the military has repeatedly staged coups and assumed power.

Myanmar is a staunchly Buddhist country. Nearly 80% of the population are Buddhists. So the military started that we are the protector of Buddhism, we are the protector of the religion. So they blasted Aung San Suu Kyi, tried to portray Aung San Suu Kyi. as too westernised, like she was married to a westerner. She has kind of the children who are, you know, the Non-burmese. I mean, in fact, she herself is a very pious Buddhist.

But they attacked Aung San Suu Kyi, and they portrayed that they are the ones. who would protect the country and the religion. That's interesting, because I wanted to ask about the role of China, because the Chinese government was clearly not. very happy when that coup took place. And yet Beijing is supporting or backing this election. and has been helping the Junta regain some of the territory. Jonathan, can you just talk us through, you know, the role that China plays,

why the Chinese leaders are now working with the Junta, despite the disappointment or dissatisfaction. that they felt when the coup took place? Well, Chinese Myanmar relations have been sensitive and complicated for a very long time. It's never a straightforward relationship, but it's a necessary one. And China sees Myanmar as strategically vital. It is a gateway to the Indian Ocean for China. allowing it to, it's got an oil and gas pipeline that goes.

from southwestern China down to the Bay of Bengal, allowing it to bypass the potential chokehold of the Straits. of Malacca for Chinese trade. China had very good relations with Aung San Suu Kyi's government, actually, and they were doing quite well. And I think it certainly saw the coup. as a potentially disastrous gambit by Min Aung Hlaing. And in fact, we saw Chinese-backed insurgents up. along the border in Shan state.

advancing and taking territory from the military just two years ago, really encouraging people to believe that if they were able. to work together with all the other armed opposition groups, they might actually be able to overthrow the military. And I think at that point there was a recalibration in Beijing. Much as China has been frustrated by the military, by the chaos, it's caused by the proliferation. of scam centres which happened under military rule, China fears instability and state collapse. much more than any of those other factors.

And I think when it realised that perhaps. the military Junta could completely collapse, it does not believe clearly. that the myriad opposition forces, which are very fragmented, would be able to form a stable, alternative government. I thought it was interesting that the Junta spokesperson said. this election is being conducted for the people of Myanmar, not for the international community. But, you know, you talked about China and maybe other Asian countries. reactions. But what about the role of the West?

Because I think, you know, they seem to have cared at least a little bit. about international pressure previously. You know, does it even matter anymore? So when western influence, you know, did play some role. in the previous kind of changes, but this time, like, you know, when you look at the United States, which was the leader of that western influence. So the US has no interest in Myanmar issue these days, like, you know, even quite strange.

that the US Homeland Security Department announced that. they withdrew you know, temporary protected status. for thousands of Myanmar people who came to us after the military coup, which they were granted that temporary status. And so the reason that they are revoking that status, that Homeland Security announced was that Myanmar was holding elections. and everything was rosy going forward. So this is how ignorant United States is.

about Myanmar or lack of interest. What about you, Jonathan? Because you were given permission to cover this election. You know, what was your sense that the junta still cares about. how the international community sees its leadership? Look, I think they're on a mission to try. and claw back some kind of legitimacy. They know that they miscalculated with this coup. I don't think there's any doubt about that. They totally miscalculated the tremendous anger.

that they've stirred up among their own population, and the violence they've had to use to suppress. the opposition has appalled pretty much everyone. I am sure it's appalled the Chinese as well. So it's an uphill battle for them. And they do want any kind of recognition they can get. I find it interesting when they invite us to go. because we are monitored very closely. They do restrict us very tightly on where we can and can't go, but they don't seem to pay a lot of attention to what we actually report.

And pretty much all the independent reporting. in Myanmar is highly critical of the military. We try very hard to see behind what they let us see. I mean, we actually managed on this trip to travel really. quite a short distance from Mandalay into an area just on the other side. of the Irrawaddy River, where the war is visible. Everyone is armed to the teeth. Villages are divided. It's very, very striking. Now, they didn't like us going there. They were quite upset, even though it was used, in days gone by,

it was a popular tourist area. But I realised they were much more worried about what we did. while we were there, rather than what we actually reported. They invite Western journalists from big media organisations because. in their minds, if we're there covering the election, it gives it a kind of legitimacy, just the fact that we're there. I want to ask you both about, you know, what's next, because what really struck me, you know, just speaking to a couple of Burmese nationals living in Singapore. was kind of the hopelessness, helplessness that they know.

that this election is not going to change anything. They can't see a clear leader like Aung San Suu Kyi in the next generation, even though young people are fighting back, as you said, Soe Win. You know, what's the mood? Obviously, this election will continue until the end of the month, but what's the mood in terms of, you know, what's next? Are people just kind of made peace. with the fact that they have to just live with this military rule and, you know, keep going because obviously the economy is struggling.

and they just have to survive. Yeah. Like Jonathan clearly outlined that, you know, Jonathan had been. inside the country and talked to, you know, the voters and also we in our coverage. we speak to a lot of people in the country. There's a hopelessness and there's no choice at all. Like, you know, they've lived under this very brutal civil war for five years, and there is no other alternative outcome. People who can't leave the country, you know, we talked to a young, young woman,

you know, in the programme in Singapore, who talked. about people trying to flee the countries, those who can, then they already fled or planning to flee, but those who have no other choice. have to stay in in the country and live with it. So for the past five years, then they have suffered terribly. So they see this. They know, everybody understood. that these elections would not bring out any change at all. The military designed the elections so that they could still continue to be.

in this poll positions to hold power. And Jonathan, in terms of, you know, in comparison to other South East Asian countries where we saw the rise. of, you know, civilian rule, what what could happen next to Myanmar, do you think? I follow Indonesia very closely, and both Myanmar and Indonesia are very similar in certain ways, both very complex, multi-ethnic, post-colonial countries that found. it very difficult to bring unity in the early years after independence.

But in Indonesia, even though the leadership was very authoritarian, it essentially embraced the outside world, embraced trade interaction with the rest of the world, and brought in a much wider range of actors to run the country. That hasn't happened in Myanmar. The military still sees itself as absolutely essential. It dominates business. Military companies are enormous in Myanmar. They've become very wealthy, and they do not see themselves. as having to give up power at all.

It's very telling, I think, that some of the generals. who appeared to be reformers in that sort. of democratic interlude, who were paraded around the world. as these sort of open minded generals bringing democracy. Those generals, after the coup, have completely backed it. They've totally backed one of the most regressive. and violent coups the world has seen. There are no reformers in the Myanmar military. They are ultimately completely loyal to the institution. I've heard Burmese describe, those who are opposed to it,

the military, describe it as a cancer that. if they ever want to progress, they have to cut out. And that's why so many young people who are appalled. at losing the democratic freedoms they have they had before, have now fled to the borders and taken up arms. The terrible cost has been incurred on them. and on the country by this civil war. But they say we have no choice. Our military will simply not give up power. And I think the evidence suggests that they're right. Well, the election continues in phases until the end of this month,

but we'll pause this conversation here. Thank you to Jonathan Head and Soe Win Than. You've been watching Asia Specific from the BBC World Service. with me, Mariko in Singapore. If you have any questions or thoughts on what we've covered. in this episode or any other stories from this region, please leave us a comment below and click like and subscribe. so you never miss an episode. But until next time, see you.