Will 'Islamic Nato' protect Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Turkey? | Global News Podcast

Welcome to the Global News podcast from. the BBC. I'm Sally Hutton and today I'm. joined by our global analyst Ambassador. Eturajjan. Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and. Pakistan have signed a mutual defense. pact described by some as NATO for the. Islamic world. So Ambassador, just. briefly, what does this agreement. entail? >> The Mecca joint defense agreement is. important both in terms of. substance as well as symbolism. Now, in. terms of substance, it brings together.

three countries with the different. military and financial capacities coming. together. In terms of symbolism, it was. signed in the holy city of Mecca. Now, what it talks about is military. cooperation between Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Pakistan. And the various leaders have been giving. out information on what areas, like. logistics, military training, and. sharing of intelligence, and also. counterterrorism operations. But the key. thing is it's a black the article five.

of NATO, that is. any attack on one country will be. treated as an attack on all. That is. what gained lot of traction. And what. many people see this as a substitute or. a backup plan instead of having US as. the net security guarantor in the Middle. East. Now, these three countries are. trying together and form a plan B in. case of any future conflict in the. Middle East. That's how it is being. seen. Of course, there are many people. who disagree with that.

>> Mhm. I mean, some people might question. this and say, well, Pakistan and Saudi. Arabia already signed a mutual defense. treaty last year. So, why sign another. one and bring Turkey into the mix? Why. is this happening now? >> The Pakistan-Saudi Arabia agreement is a. something similar which was signed last. year. Now, what the Pakistani Foreign. Minister Ishaq Dar was talking about it. was more of an expansion of what. happened last year, The agreement. between Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Now,

what it does is Turkey, a country which. has got very good defense industry. technology in terms of drones, loitering. munitions, and shells, and missiles. And. Saudi is one of the largest suppliers of. fuel, petroleum products to various. countries with the financial muscle. power. And then Pakistan, which has a. you know, big military and also the. nuclear arsenal. So, these three. countries, in fact, Turkey is the second. biggest military in NATO. So, these. three countries are coming together. Now, how do you see this? Is it a.

counter to Iran and Israel? Because. Turkey is also having problem with. Israel in the aftermath of Gaza. And. what happened in the last few months, why the US could not completely, you. know, gain a superiority over Iran. So, whereas many countries like Saudi. Arabia, Bahrain, and Kuwait, many Gulf. countries came under attack, and those. attacks on oil installations, civilian. facilities could not be stopped by the. US military might. And that is why they. think a plan B can provide them some.

security. And also looking at in the. long-term interest, for example, Turkey's relations with Israel, we don't. know how this going to pan out in the. future. And Saudi Arabia thinks that in. the long run, 10 years down the line, how Iran will develop its military. capabilities. Because even now, they. they're still able to fire back, hit. back at many targets in the Gulf. That's. why Saudi Arabia needs it. In fact, it. is more of Saudi Arabia wanting security. than the other two countries, because it.

has got the financial muscle. It it. gives billions of dollars in terms of. loan or parking the money in the. Pakistani banks to stabilize the. economy. At the same time, it also. imports, for example, drones from. Turkey. So, it is using its financial. muscle, as well as its strategic. location. You know, it has got long. coast one side on the Gulf, on the other. side on the Red Sea. So, it is using its. geographical location also to bring this. new security architecture. But, many.

would say it will take years even if. they want any type of military. integration something on the basis of. NATO. >> Mhm. You've underlined the logic behind. this pact, why each country has decided. to buy into this agreement. But, as you. said, a lot of skepticism has been. raised. Many questioning how solid this. pact can possibly be. We've already seen. it be challenged. It was only signed a. few days ago, and already just in the. last few days we've seen the Iran-backed.

Houthis in Yemen, they've struck a Saudi. oil refinery, and they've also targeted. Saudi-backed forces in Yemen. So, should we really expect Pakistan or. Turkey to step in to defend Saudi Arabia. just days after this agreement was first. agreed to? >> Um there are a lot of skepticism about. this agreement. First and foremost, many. experts agree that whether it can. replace the United States as a net. security guarantor, no. Because not in the immediate future.

And whether this agreement can be signed. without the tacit approval of. Washington, many people doubt that. But, what it allows the US is to somewhat. outsource some of the capacities to the. regional blocks, something like this. Now, even if they want to integrate or. if you want to exchange troops, it's not. going to be easy given that three. different security apparatus like Turkey. has got NATO um already embedded with. NATO. Pakistan has got a lot of Chinese.

equipment. So, combining them is not. going to be an easy task. Now, if it. comes to whether attack on one will be. treated as an attack on all. So, even. though despite the Saudi-Pakistan. agreement, even though Pakistan provided. troop support, some air defense. mechanism in Saudi Arabia's war against. the Houthi rebels, it did not give. full-fledged help to Saudi Arabia. And. second, if you see the Saudi was. attacked by Iran, then Pakistan did not. come in. in support of Saudi Arabia because. Pakistan shares border with Iran. So,

there are technical issues and in the. long run, what happens if Turkey gets. into conflict with the Greece or with. the Israel? So, people are really. questioning how far it is going to be. practical. Uh but, what it gives them is. another kind of security architecture. where they can help each other. They are. sending out That's why one of the. leaders was talking about it is more of. collective deterrence. It is more for. peace, not against any specific country.

They won't insist on that. But, there. are practical issues. You know, if you. look at the number of US troops in the. region, tens of thousands, number of. bases in Qatar, in UAE, in Saudi Arabia. Can they be replaced by these three. countries? No, they can't be replaced. You know, US with this military and. economic might, it is going to be there. But, this gives these countries an. opportunity to tell the world, you know, we are forming this because. Gulf the economic possibilities and the. oil is very important for that economies.

for the Gulf countries. So, they want to. have a plan B and they want to expand it. later on maybe to Egypt, to Qatar. That's why many people call whether it. could be a, you know, Muslim NATO. Even. though there is no suggestion in using. the term, but they are looking at it as. Muslim countries coming together. >> Pakistan has played a really interesting. role in the global community in the past. few months. First, it's acting as a. mediator in the conflict between the US. and Iran and it's really stepped up to. the to the front in that. But, at the.

same time, it's signing a defense. agreement with Saudi Arabia and Turkey. when Saudi Arabia has received some. missile strikes from Iran. So, how is it. playing these two roles at the same. time? >> So, Pakistan wants to show that it is. impactful. It will be useful and a key. strategic player because it has got a. lot of interest in the Gulf region. because it imports energy resources. And. also, millions of Pakistanis work in. Saudi Arabia and other countries from. where they get about 10 billion dollars.

in remittances. Now, if you see in the last one year how. the Trump administration has gotten. close to Pakistani authorities, that's. very interesting. In fact, President. Trump called Field Marshal Asim Munir as. my favorite Field Marshal. You know, he. was using the Pakistani leaders to send. messages to Iran. Now, why Pakistan? Because Pakistan shares border with. Iran. These countries, they they share a. lot of relations. And at the same time, there is no other country which can deal. directly with Iran in the Gulf region at.

the moment. But, Pakistan also wants to show that it. has got diplomatic, you know, maneuverability to go and talk to Iran. But, at the same time, it has got. limitations. Now, by signing this. agreement with Saudi Arabia, people are, as you say, questioning. You are signing. an agreement which is, in a way, seen as. a counter to Iran. So, your. participation as a mediator comes into. question. But, that's why these countries are. repeatedly insisting, "No, it is not. against any particular country, this new. alliance.".

But, in the long run, if there is any. tension, Pakistan's role will be. questioned. But, then again, how the. Trump administration is going to use. Pakistan once there is a deal with Iran. You know, with the US was criticizing. Pakistan not long ago because of the, you know, presence of alleged militant. groups and how Pakistan is treating. these groups. And tomorrow, what happens. if there is a border border skirmish. between Pakistan and Afghanistan? Where. will Saudi Arabia stand? So, these are. the issues which these, you know, Pakistan's role has become more.

interesting. And also, it is also. playing this a very, what do you call, strategic diplomatic game that can turn. anytime. >> I wonder how other countries in the. region are responding to the. announcement of this pact. What about. India for example? >> Pakistan and India, they are rivals. They have fought wars particularly over. the disputed region of Kashmir. In fact, there was a conflict even in last year. May. I was in Delhi at that time when. both sides were exchanging drones and. missiles. So, will.

Saudi Arabia and Turkey come to the aid. of Pakistan if there is another. conflict? That's a big question because. they are geographically far away whether. they can be systems can be integrated. But it raises questions for a country. like India because now the dynamics is. changing, the architecture changing. where Pakistan can get Saudi resources. and also Turkish defense technology in. terms of drones or missiles. That is. going to have an impact on India's. regional security. So, already the.

Indian government's official response. has been you know, we have taken note of. it. We are studying this agreement. But. a day before this agreement was signed, um there was a top level contact between. Indian and Israeli officials to discuss. about the West Asia situation. But of. course, they would have had some. information about this agreement was. going to be signed. So, in any future. conflict, it's not only. um Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Already. China is providing lot of assistance to. Pakistan in terms of military jets, in.

terms of sharing like Baidu the the. satellite technologies, surveillance. capacity. So, Pakistan's role is going. to be keenly watched by India and and. that's why you know, people are talking. about already India has got close ties. with the strategic and defense ties with. Israel. And India also signed a. framework for a defense agreement with. the UAE, United Arab Emirates. So, we. are going to be a new another form of. strategic cooperation between a. different group of countries. But again, Washington is going to play an important.

role in any conflict between India and. Pakistan as it happened even the last. year. So, but it is a clear warning. sign. It is a clear sign for India now. where it will look up to, what it should. be doing because you're you're going to. look at Pakistan with a different. dynamics where they are going to. technology what it was lacking before. and they're going to be integrating more. and getting financial resources from. Saudi Arabia. So, it is causing concerns. for other countries in the region, especially with the countries with which.

they are having the rivalry, for. example, Turkey and Greece and Saudi and. Iran. So, it is having an impact in. along not only in the Gulf, but also. across the region. >> Thanks, Ambassador and our global. analyst Ambassador Atharajan. And if you. want to hear more from the global news. podcast, click the link below. I'm Celia. Hatton. Thanks for watching.