Will Andy Burnham overthrow Keir Starmer as UK prime minister? | Global News Podcast

Welcome to the Global News podcast from. the BBC. I'm Valerie Sanderson and I'm. joined by our political correspondent. Rob Watson. Rob, the Labour politician Andy Burnham. has just won the Makerfield by-election. This puts him in a position to challenge. the sitting Labour Prime Minister Keir. Starmer for leadership of the party and. so become Prime Minister. Tell us about. Andy Burnham. >> Let me try and give you a little pen. portrait, shall I Val? So, he's 56. I.

think it's important to start with that. He was born in Liverpool. He supports. Everton Football Club, the other team in. Liverpool. I support the other one. I've. discussed that with him in the past. He. comes over as being very likable, very. approachable, very. relatable. He's kind of person who cares. a lot about his appearance for a. middle-aged man. He's always dressed. quite trendily and he tries to portray. himself very much as a sort of ordinary. bloke. You know, he likes beer. He loves. the Britpop music of the late 1990s.

He loves football, playing it and. supporting it. But interestingly, I. think that he's the ultimate insider and. outsider. Let me briefly explain. I. mean, insider in the sense that he went. to Britain's famous Cambridge. University, went straight from there. pretty much into a life of Labour. politics in Westminster, in the capital. But for the last 10 years, he's been the. mayor of Greater Manchester and now very. much likes to say, "I'm the outsider. I'm the guy up north who can see what.

you're all doing wrong in London." So, that's that's Andy Burnham and I guess. just one further line on it. You know, to his critics, he's a likable. lightweight. and to his supporters, he's the. the liberal left's last best hope, Valerie. >> Rob, Labour under Keir Starmer won a. landslide victory almost 2 years ago in. July 2024. So, why is Andy Burnham such a threat. now? >> Well, he's such a threat because Keir.

Starmer is so fantastically unpopular. inside his own governing Labour Party. and of course out there in the wider. country. I mean it's extraordinary the. way in which Labour has gone from a. landslide or be it what people were. calling a love less love less landslides. the state it's in now. And the reason. why Andy Burnham presents such a threat. personally to Keir Starmer is that he. can say number one, I got nothing to do. with these last two years of Keir. Starmer's government. I was up north in.

Manchester running the city very nicely. Thank you very much. And secondly, he's. now in a position to say and guess what? I'm the guy that was able to beat the. populist the populist of the right. reform led by Nigel Farage. So it's. those two things that make him such a. threat to the Prime Minister. >> I mean it would be quite something, wouldn't it? Because as I understand it, no Labour Prime Minister has faced a. formal challenge like that before. >> Certainly not while they were actually.

in power. I mean that would be utterly. unprecedented and that's why some have. suggested come on guys. You need to sort. of meet in a quiet room in Downing. Street and sort this out sort this out. between yourselves because. what some Labour Party supporters are. very worried about is that look, if you. did have this if you had some contest. between. Andy Burnham and maybe Keir Starmer. maybe others and it went on for for. months. Then of course you face the charge what. on earth are you doing squabbling.

amongst yourselves when the country. needs proper governance. So that that is. that is the danger that the party faces. But of course there is the counter. argument which is look, you know, if. you're going to change leaders and. therefore Prime Ministers, you better. have a proper debate about it and at. this point Valerie, it's not clear which. one of those two approaches is going to. win out. >> Well, Keir Starmer says he'll fight. back. I mean, can he? >> That that entirely depends not on his. determination. I don't think there's any. doubt about that. And just to fill you.

in with a little bit of color on this, I mean, we we understand at the BBC that. Keir Starmer is not a great fan of Andy. Burnham. He doesn't think that. you know, that he'd do any better job. than he's doing and that things would. quickly turn sour. But to get to that to. the nub of your question, Keir Starmer. is absolutely determined to fight on any. cap if he can. But look, if if he if if. he begins to if he begins to find that. support in the Labour party is just.

draining away from him whether in inside. his government or on what's known as the. Labour backbenchers or ordinary MPs, then it wouldn't really matter how. determined you are, Valerie. You know, you just wouldn't have any a leg to. stand on. >> And what is Andy Burnham's vision for. Britain? How would things change if he. was in power? >> That's a very good question. I mean, the. short answer is we don't know. I mean, what he's talked about is, you know, that that language that politicians of. the sort of soft left love, which is,

you know, bringing unity, bringing hope, making sure that this is a country that. works for everyone in the country, all. parts of the country, being against. trickle-down economics is something that. he says. But I mean, exactly what are. the fundamental differences, if any, between him and Keir Starmer, who's also. a politician of the soft left, on the. key questions, which is foreign policy? Has he has he got any different vision. there? Haven't really heard anything. And indeed on domestic policy. So, is.

there some fundamental difference. between the way Andy Burnham sees both. the size and the role of the state? And. crucially, Valerie, how on earth you. would fund it, given that Britain is up. to its eyes in debt. It has low growth, high debts, and high costs of borrowing. So, that that vision question is a. really good one and it. raises all sorts of questions, you know, beyond having a more hopeful messenger, a messenger who clearly relates better. to people than Keir Starmer. What else.

really would Keir would Andy Burnham. bring that's different? >> I mean, he's won this by-election, but. do we know if he's popular with the. British people? >> Well, I checked this all up. I. double-checked it before we we start to. to speak, Valerie. And all you can say. is is that he's less unpopular. than Keir Starmer. And I was looking at. the figures from a company called Ipsos, it's a polling company, and. Andy Burnham has a net favorability. rating of minus seven. Well, you might.

think, well, that's not great, is it? But Keir Starmer's is around minus 34. So, Keir Starmer is massively unpopular, Andy Burnham somewhat less so. I mean, I. should also add in parentheses, Valerie, that all. that all of Britain's politicians are. fantastically. unpopular and most of them have a. negative favorability ratings. >> And Labour is losing support to the. Greens on the left, isn't it? And Reform.

Party is surging on the right. So, how. difficult is it for any Labour leader to. win an election? >> Fantastically difficult. And and I think. you summed it up nicely the the problem. they face that in a pincer movement. So, what they're doing is they're losing. their traditional white working class. voters. I mean, it's important to. remember Labour was a party founded by. trade unionists and in those days trade. unions was, you know, mainly blokes. working in factories and coal mines, shipbuilding and all sorts of stuff like.

that. They were the lifeblood of the. Labour Party. Well, that sort of Britain. doesn't really exist anymore. Anyway, those white working class voters have. tended to move off to Reform and other. parties to the right, mainly for kind of. cultural reasons, immigration reasons. They tend to be anti-immigration. They. tend to think that you know, why does. Britain always running down its history. But then Labour has lost as well or is. losing that other sort of important. chunk of its supporters which are you. know, mainly young progressives, people.

who have had a university education. And. the problem is a lot of them have gone. off to the Green Party, some to the. Liberal Democrats. So absolutely, it's a. it's a very very unpleasant squeeze for. Labour from both sides. >> I mean, for anyone watching this, the UK. was always known for its stable. politics, wasn't it? And long-term Prime. Ministers. I'm thinking of Margaret. Thatcher, who was in power for 11 years. Tony Blair, former Labour Prime Minister. for 10 years. And yet we've had six.

Prime Ministers in the last 10 years. So, what has changed? >> So, before doing this podcast, Valerie, I thought I'd do a little bit of. research just to kind of put that. question into some perspective. So, we've had Prime Ministers the role has. existed since the 18th century. And up. until 2016, so to back up your point, Valerie, most Prime Ministers lasted for. over 5 years. We have now had or maybe about to have. seven Prime Ministers in two year in 10. years, which would mean they'd all.

lasted for less than two years, which. would be pretty extraordinary as you say. after the run of people like Margaret. Thatcher and Tony Blair. What has. happened? I think it's four things. Sorry to give you a list, but I'll try. and make it brief. I mean, one is. Brexit, which which created an. extraordinary kind of division and rift. in Britain, something that we hadn't. really seen since the Civil War in the. 17th century. So, that's number one. Number two, we've had stagnating living. standards since the financial crisis in. 2008. Again, something that hasn't. happened forgive me going back into.

history again, since the Napoleonic Wars. at the beginning of the 19th century. Thirdly, there is this kind of. incredible concern over immigration and. social cohesion. You know, a sense that. the government hasn't really asked. people permission for the large numbers. of people who've arrived in the UK over. the last few decades and how to. integrate them. And that has created. what many people feel is a real problem. over social cohesion. And then the. fourth one is that sort of sense that, you know, the state just doesn't work.

anymore. People think nothing in Britain. works, whether it's the trains, you. know, whatever it is, education, you. name it. So, we are in an immensely kind. of gloomy mood as a country. We've been. in that way now. really since 2008, maybe a little bit. before that. And I think that explains. why we're running through prime. ministers quicker than Let me try and. think of something very quicker than. my favorite football team runs through. managers. >> Thanks, Rob. That was Rob Watson, our. political correspondent. If you want to.

find out more about the story, just. listen to the Global News podcast. Just. click on the link below. But that's it. from this edition of the Global News. podcast here on YouTube. Thanks for. listening. Thanks for watching. And bye. for now.