Why Zelensky faces protests in Ukraine | Global News Podcast

Welcome to the Global News podcast from. the BBC. I'm Celia Hatton and today. we're joined by Vitaly Shevchenko. He's. BBC monitoring's chief analyst and he's. also an expert on Russia and Ukraine. Vitaly, from the outside Ukraine looks. to be doing quite well at the moment in. its war against Russia. But today we've. seen protests against the government in. Kyiv. What's going on? >> Ukraine is doing really well. So well in. fact that President Zelenskyy earlier.

this week, he said that the Ukrainian. army was in the best ever position on. the front line. And yet, three days later, his defense minister, Mykhailo Fedorov, seems to be on the way out. On the face. of it, it's a really puzzling decision. because Mykhailo Fedorov is one of the. key architects of Ukraine's drone. revolution. Digitally minded,

forward-thinking, all about drones, AI, cutting-edge. technology. All these things have. transformed modern warfare. The. Ukrainian army has regained a lot of. territory because of all this. But. Volodymyr Zelenskyy said that the. defense minister, Mykhailo Fedorov, and. the Ukrainian army's commander-in-chief,

Oleksandr Syrskyi, basically cannot. stand each other. They cannot work. together. To give you a quote, Celia, uh Zelenskyy said that they can't They. wouldn't even sit down together without. the president being in the room. So, Volodymyr Zelenskyy said that he was. really sorry about having to make a. choice, having to choose between these. two really, really important. uh men, but a choice had to be made and.

it looks like he's chosen. Oleksandr Syrskyi, the. commander-in-chief over Mykhailo. Fedorov, the. defense minister. Now, Mykhailo Fedorov. also gave a news conference. earlier today and he was scathingly. critical of. Oleksandr Syrskyi. He said that the. commander-in-chief of the Ukrainian army. was busy causing divisions in Ukraine.

rather than finding ways of. defeating Russia. The. outgoing defense minister also accused. General Syrskyi of stonewalling the. defense ministry's initiatives. And at. the moment of speaking, it looks like um. Mr. Fedorov is not completely out. So, one of the journalists asked him, "Okay, is there.

a theoretical possibility of you. staying on if if President Zelenskyy. changes his mind?" And Mykhailo Fedorov. said. he couldn't really see a way of. continuing to work with General Syrskyi, but he said that that he would be still. somehow involved in in in this mission. of defeating Russia. >> Fascinating. So, we have this political. drama at the very top of the Ukrainian.

government unfolding. But the Ukrainian. military is also under a lot of. pressure, isn't it, Vitaly? I mean, just. last week we saw a huge protest, almost. a riot, in Lviv. Can you take us through. what happened there and we'll get into. the problems behind it? >> This is one of the reasons why. President Zelenskyy isn't really happy. with how things are going within his. his military. In Lviv, as you mentioned Celia, a group.

of people overturned a van used by. military recruiters, physically turned. it upside down, jumped on it, and caused. a riot. It's shocking, but by no means unusual. This has been going on for years, frankly. Ukraine is struggling to. recruit more people to go to the front. line. It's a huge issue, and. Defense Minister said that.

fighting should be done by machines. rather than people, especially given how. difficult it is for the Ukrainian. military to recruit new people. So, even. though so many Ukrainians are, as we. have seen, patriotic, they are fighting. for their country's survival, it at the end of the day, it comes down. to a choice between life and death. Going to the front line can mean death,

and not everyone, literally, is prepared to go to the. front line and die for the sake of their. country. So, these people in Lviv, for. example, they just didn't want to do. that. And that is a huge challenge. Thousands and thousands of. young Ukrainians have died in the front. line. Many more thousands were were. maimed. When I was in Kyiv earlier this. year, it was striking to see so many young.

people in wheelchairs, missing limbs. It. didn't used to be like that. When you drive across Ukraine, every. single little village, no matter how. small, there's a cemetery, and there would be fresh graves with. Ukrainian flags fluttering above them. These are soldiers killed recently. So, um, there's a lot of talk about patriotism. and resilience in Ukraine, but the fact.

is, the understandable fact is, not. everyone is willing to die. >> Vitaly, there's another layer to all of. this that I want to ask you about as. well, because pressure is mounting on. Volodymyr Zelenskyy's government because. of a string of corruption scandals. What's been going on there? >> Volodymyr Zelenskyy has been trying. He's been making efforts to, uh, improve. things, by the sound of it. One one a. huge step,

well, that's a popular opinion among. Ukrainians and commentators abroad, was getting rid of his. powerful, um, chief of staff, head of the. presidential office, Andriy Yermak. He. was generally seen as the gray cardinal. pulling the strings behind the scenes. He had to go among a swirl of corruption. claims. And this whole government reshuffle, about which we're talking today, can in.

a certain way be seen as part of the. same. effort by President Zelenskyy. The. former Prime Minister, Yuliia. Svyrydenko, who was replaced today, she was generally seen as somebody who. is or was linked to Andriy Yermak. Now, she's gone as well. So, Volodymyr. Zelenskyy, when he's, uh, uh, confronted with allegations of of. corruption, he would say, "Well, look, I'm doing something. I'm I'm getting rid.

of various people. I'm reshuffling. I'm. appointing new people. This is my way of. making sure that corruption stops.". However, what we're seeing today. harks back to a huge extent to what we. saw exactly a year ago. when. there were efforts. I would say spearheaded by the. presidential office to curtail the. autonomy of Ukraine's anti-corruption. agencies. And then just like now protesters turned.

out in huge numbers in Kiev and across. Ukraine holding up. sort of simple homemade posters on on on. pieces of cardboard. So this is what. we're seeing in Kiev today. This is what. we saw in Kiev last year. Last year it. worked. The president's office. backtracked and those anti-corruption. agencies preserved their. authority and independence. Will it work now? We'll just see, but to me frankly at.

this stage it looks unlikely and it. looks like Mykhailo Fedorov is genuinely. on the way out. >> What about Volodymyr Zelenskyy? How much. political support does he have or is. support amongst the public? >> On the one hand. he is. by far the most popular politician in. Ukraine. I had a look at the most recent. figures. he is well in the lead with 32% of. Ukrainians saying they would vote for.

him again if. a presidential election were to be held. this coming weekend. Number two is. General that. Volodymyr Zelenskyy um. sort of got rid of. which. Zaluzhnyy. And number three is. the current chief of staff of the. presidential office uh. Kyrylo Budanov. But on the other hand it.

doesn't mean that President Zelenskyy is. universally admired and revered in. Ukraine. There's a huge as as we are. seeing today, there's a huge share of. the public in Ukraine. uh. who people who are prepared to take to. the streets and they're not mincing. their words criticizing some of. President Zelenskyy's decisions. So, these people, activists, volunteers. who've been helping the army, uh.

young people especially, they tend to see Volodymyr Zelenskyy as. somebody they have to. put up with, somehow get along with, work with. because they've got nobody else. And. let's face it, he's been doing a. reasonably good job leading Ukraine. through this extraordinarily. difficult time. So, replacing him right. now, well, I don't I'm not sure many.

Ukrainians would want to do that and the. opinion polls that I've seen suggest. that most Ukrainians, whether they like. Zelenskyy or not, they're saying now is. not the time to hold elections. And of. course, Ukrainian law says you cannot. hold elections at a time of war. >> Can you tell us more about that? Why. have elections been on hold for so long? >> Well, this is what Ukrainian law has. said. uh for years. It was passed well before. the Russian invasion. It wasn't.

uh that uh Russia invaded and Ukraine. scrapped elections. No, it was always. clear that under Ukrainian laws you. cannot hold elections. Why? One big reason is that um. Russia will most definitely try and. manipulate these elections and Russia's. been so skilled. uh in in doing that for for for decades. in in parts of the former Soviet Union. and beyond.

Secondly, there are the practicalities. of holding uh. an an election under fire, under bombs, in in trenches. How do you take uh. ballot boxes to the front line? What. about uh the millions of Ukrainian. refugees scattered around the globe? Ukraine quite simply does not have a. record of where they are, where where. they live, and how are they going to.

vote? That's another practicality that. makes the whole idea of holding an. election right now. really, really um. impractical. >> Vitaly, when elections do come, can. Volodymyr Zelenskyy's political career. survive beyond this war? >> I think that's a possibility. given how well he's he's been doing so. far. He's a bit of a Churchillian figure uh.

in in Ukraine and across the world. So, should he decide to run again, I think he's he stands a reasonably good. chance. Whether he would want to do that. after all the enormous pressure, I'm not. sure. He's he's complained numerous. occasions uh about not being able to see. his family, about uh. how difficult this job is. This is. probably the most difficult and. dangerous job in the world right now. Uh.

and he's been doing it for years and. years and years. But, we are so far away from the moment when. Ukraine would be able to take a step. back and start thinking in normal. political terms, parties, elections, leaders, campaigning. At the moment, this is about survival. And uh and you. know, change of horses. at a time like this.

The Ukrainians say is so inadvisable. They don't even think about it. However, if they think. that their president makes a mistake, they are prepared to take the streets. And speaking today about these protests. against the removal of the defense. minister. Vladimir Zelenskyy said that well, we. are fighting for freedom of speech, freedom of expression, democracy. So. yeah, they are doing the right thing,

protesting. So. in a way, what's been going on kind of. shows why he's president, what he's. fighting for, even though these people. are really critical against him. Some of. the posters I've seen. Oh my god, they're unprintable. And unbroadcastable. >> Thank you, Vitaly. The BBC's Vitaly. Shevchenko. And if you'd like to hear. more from the global news podcast, click. the link below. Thanks for watching.