Why Trump talks about election fraud | Global News Podcast

Welcome to the Global News Podcast from. the BBC. I'm Seely Hatton and today I'm. joined by our North America. correspondent Anthony Zurcher. Anthony, we're looking at the wide-ranging claims. of election fraud that were laid out by. President Trump in a rare national. address from meddling by China to. allegations of a deep state cover-up. I. know the BBC's been reviewing documents. that have been newly released by the. Trump administration into these claims. Has there been any proof that's been. revealed? >> Well, Donald Trump has declassified a.

range of different documents going over. the past five or six years and he in his. speech to the public cited those. documents. We've had a chance to look a. little deeper into them and some of the. information is new but it doesn't. contain any big surprises. There were. things that we already knew, some. documents that had already been released. out into the public domain, some which. had been a concern for American. government going back more than 10.

years. So, the the validity of these documents, these are findings, sometimes. temporary findings or preliminary. findings, but Donald Trump has been. grouping all of them together and in the. speech was trying to present it as a. clear threat to American elections and a. warning that things had to be done to. secure them or the United States. democracy would be in in peril. >> Okay, so Donald [snorts] Trump is trying. to present this as a threat. Are voters.

buying it? What's been the reaction so. far? >> You know, if you look at polls cuz this. is not new, Donald Trump's claims. He. has obviously. complained about the 2020 presidential. election and his defeat in that election. since the day of that election. He has. complained about the midterm election, even the 2016 election which he won. He. said there was fraud there and that's. why he He win the popular vote. And he. has convinced I would say a majority.

according to polls of Republicans that. there is a a problem with election fraud. and that he really did win the 2020. election. But the public writ large. beyond Donald Trump's loyal base, I. think they view this skeptically and. honestly they don't think that much. about past elections. I think if you. look at what voters are concerned about. right now is the economy, it's. affordability, the cost of housing, the. cost of energy,

and that is what is a pressing concern. for them. So Donald Trump talking about. this, it's essentially preaching to the. choir to some extent. The people who. believe this already are going to. believe it just as much, but I'm not. sure because of the evidence that he's. putting forward. over the past 24 hours that that's going. to change a lot of minds. >> It's fascinating this split that we're. seeing between what the public believes, what polls tell us about what the public. believes, and what we're hearing in. Washington and what Republicans are are.

saying in Washington. Can you tell me. more about that reaction in DC between. Republicans but also from Democrats? >> Well, Donald Trump back in 2020 when he. was challenging those election results, he had people in his administration. who disagreed with him. People like. William Barr, the Attorney General, who. said that these allegations of of voter. fraud, widespread voter fraud was. essentially BS. This time around his Donald Trump is. surrounded by people in his.

administration who either agree with him. that election fraud is a major concern. or at the very least are willing to echo. his his statements about calling into. question past election results. So it's. a it's a different environment here for. Republicans and you've heard it when a. whole litany of nominees that Donald. Trump has put up for senior. administration officials. When they get. on the hill, they're asked by Democrats, "Who won the 2020 presidential. election?" And almost to a person,

uh they will uh. they'll refuse to to speak on the record. to that. Uh they'll they'll not directly. answer that question. Uh the most. recently, the nominee for director of. national intelligence, uh he he was. unwilling to say that Joe Biden won. He. just said Joe Biden was certified as as. the as the the president. And that was. about as far as he was willing to go. So, uh that kind of that kind of shows. you the environment among Republicans. here in Washington. Democrats, uh.

obviously, they're saying this is uh an. obsession of Donald Trump's that he was. not willing to uh accept defeat in 2020. Uh but there's a greater concern that. Trump's criticisms, and his speech last. night was part of it, is laying the. groundwork for his efforts to contest. the midterm elections, uh midterm. congressional elections that will take. place in November. They say he might uh. later on try to nullify those results or. take steps to uh to block the uh the.

seating of members of Congress, Democrats who win in some of these. races. Uh and and the concern is. obviously they will point back to 2020. when a lot of people after that November. election thought Donald Trump was just. letting off steam and he was complaining. about his loss, but he wasn't going to. do anything about it. Uh and then. January 6th happened, the rally on uh on. the Ellipse, and the attack on the US. Capitol, uh and evidence that Donald. Trump was seriously considering. confiscating voting machines, and all of. these other steps. So, I think that has.

changed the way uh a lot of Democrats. look at these these attempts by Donald. Trump to call into question uh the. legitimacy of America's democratic. election systems. >> So, Anthony, let's talk more then about. the strategy behind Donald Trump's. assertions about past elections and how. they might bleed into concerns about. future elections as well. >> One of the things he did in his speech. on Thursday night was make a direct. pitch for some legislation that is going.

through Congress right now called the. Save Act and that legislation which is. currently stalled in the US Senate would. effectively ban mail-in balloting voting. which Donald Trump alleges is rife with. fraud although there's no support for. that assertion and also require proof of. citizenship to register to vote. You'd. have to show up with a passport or a. birth certificate and if your name. doesn't match that birth certificate. some sort of proof of a name change. whether it was because of marriage or. something else. And then also mandatory photo. identification to cast a ballot. A lot.

of states do that already but this would. create a nationwide standard for photo. identification when you when you vote. >> Why is this legislation stalled if. Republicans are. on in DC are basically lining up behind. Donald Trump to support his claims about. possible interference in elections? Why. is this particular piece of legislation. not sailing through? >> It's passed the House of Representatives. where Republicans tend to vote more in.

line with Donald Trump. In the Senate. however, it's not universal the. Republican support for this. There are a. handful of Republicans who have doubts. about this and worry about things like. what married women would be able to. whether it would be easy for them to. register to vote. The costs associated. with finding a birth certificate and. getting a copy of it. All of these are. obstacles hoops that you have to jump. through in order to exercise your. constitutional right to cast a ballot. and so it makes it more onerous for. people to to exercise that right. And at.

this point Democrats are unified in. their opposition to this. So their view. is that a lot of the people on the. margins people who are uh, new citizens. people who may not who are elderly, who. may not have access to old birth. records, or may not have passports, that. they are the ones who are going to be. the most affected. And and just because. they are on those margins, and they. don't have the documents, they shouldn't. be less able to participate in democracy. than uh, than those of us who have.

passports and have photo IDs, and can. very easily get to polling places. >> I want to kind of zoom out a little bit. and look at the bigger picture, the big. reaction, because Donald Trump was very. clear in his uh, late-night television. address. He said that China was. responsible for election meddling. And I. wonder how this might affect his. administration's attempts to patch up. relationships with China. I mean, we've. already heard from the Chinese Foreign. Ministry saying that these claims are. malicious smears. So, does this kind of.

go against what Donald Trump's trying to. achieve when it comes to China on and. China trade? >> I I think it puts it at risk. Uh, Trump. was pretty blunt in his speech last. night. He called it sinister election. meddling that China was doing, that. China didn't want him to be reelected in. 2020, and not only got access to voter. uh, rolls, voter data, but also. pressured business leaders, and used. social media to try to influence and. turn the public uh, against him. Uh,

whether that is going to be a problem. going forward, I think depends on what. Donald Trump does next. Uh, he's made. these big allegations against China. Uh, is he going to follow through with that? Does he really believe that China. presents a threat to American democracy? Or was that just a a tool that he was. using to try to get uh, legislation, this legislation through Congress that. would require uh, greater security on. uh, on voting, more proof of. identification and citizenship, which.

isn't even really directly related to. what China was alleged to be doing. So, on one in some way it feels like he he. brought up China to to to create a a. feeling of a more urgency, more of a a. threat to American democracy, but then. pivoted to the kind of domestic election. security steps that that have nothing to. do with with the kind of meddling that. he's accusing China of doing. There's real tension between the United. States and China over things like trade.

and and global security. And this is. just going to be one more piece of that, but I wouldn't be surprised if we hear. from Donald Trump going forward when he. talks about China and talks about Xi. Jinping, who he feels very friendly with. in his comments, whether that doesn't. change at all. And if that doesn't. change, I think that does tell us that. this was essentially just trying to find. evidence to to pursue a domestic goal. >> Thank you, Anthony, our North America. correspondent Anthony Zurcher. And if. you want to hear more from the Global. News podcast, click the link below. I'm.

Celia Hatton. Thanks for watching.