Why thousands of migrants entered Spain's Ceuta territory | Global News Podcast

Welcome to the Global News podcast from. the BBC. Hello, I'm Oliver Conway and. today we're joined by our Europe. correspondent Sarah Rainsford to discuss. the sudden rush of migrants from Morocco. into the Spanish territory of Ceuta. And. Sarah, first tell us about Ceuta or. Theuta as it's also called and and why. over the years it has been a a migrant. hotspot. >> It's a half of Spain which is in North. Africa and it is relatively, I say.

relatively but relatively easy to reach. for migrants who are trying to get to. Europe. So it's a a small tiny sort of. pinprick really on the whole landmass of. Africa but it borders Morocco directly. and the the border. between Morocco and Ceuta. is a fence essentially which goes out a. little way into the sea. So when people. try to reach this sliver of European. territory in Africa, then they usually.

do that by swimming generally several. kilometers from further along the coast. in Morocco but then they have to go. around that fence to make it to the. beach in Ceuta. It's complicated but it. is far less complicated of course than. spending five, six days at sea trying to. go from the the coast of West Africa for. example to the Canary Islands, another. Spanish territory. >> Yeah, so tell us about this sudden rush. of of tens of thousands of people. >> Yeah, we now think according to the. interior ministry, the Spanish interior.

ministry, it's around about 50,000. people who initially made it across the. border and into Ceuta. Now that is. unprecedented. It has never happened. before. The only previous big surge in. arrivals was around about 8,000 people. back in 2021. Now this time the surge was really quite. extraordinary because some people were. able simply to scramble onto the rocks. and walk around the edge of the border. fence. That was at the beginning. A bit. later it seemed that most people had to.

swim, so they had to to to get out to. sea and then around the fence and. landing then on the the beaches of. Ceuta. And then the scenes there were. again quite quite something to see. because there were huge piles of. inflatable rings, swimming aids, flippers that people have been using, wet suits wet suits that people have. ripped off when they got there, all. abandoned on the beach and and and. euphoric scenes as the people who had. made it to Ceuta, to this Spanish. territory, were celebrating and and.

shouting "Viva España!" and then making. victory signs towards journalists'. cameras there. >> But we do know that in this rush a. number of people did die. >> Yeah, several dozen people lost their. lives. Most of them we understand. drowned, some people in the crush and. the chaos initially as people rushed. towards the border. Now, I think the big. question at this point in all of this. is how it came to happen. Why were so. many people. amassing in that area and kind of given.

a signal, it seems, to head towards the. border. Now, the the Spanish Prime. Minister, Pedro Sánchez, he is blaming. human traffickers. He's saying that they. have deceived young people primarily. into crossing and to to to luring them. essentially to that crossing point. But. it is clear that. there was very little resistance, if. any, from the images that we've seen and. that other people have have studied. Resistance or prevention by the Moroccan.

border guards. So, it's quite I think a. big question at this point, you know, how much. the Moroccan border guards appeared to. simply melt away and how come so many. people were able to reach that border. crossing and then get past it with. relative ease. >> Yeah, what do we know about the people. who crossed? Because in the past you've. seen migrants from other parts of Africa. go to Morocco to try to get into Ceuta. or Melilla. But, I read a lot of reports that many. of these were actual Moroccans.

>> Yeah, it does appear to be the case. And. I think it's also really important to. say that the Spanish Interior Minister. is saying that in fact half of those. people, so around about 25,000 of the. people who made that crossing have. headed back in the other direction. already. They've gone back to Morocco. I've seen some interviews with young. Moroccan men saying. that they came when there was nothing in. Ceuta for them, no food, nowhere to. sleep, and that there was no point in. hanging around, and they simply turned. around and went back through a hole in. the fence or swam around the the border.

crossing and back to Morocco. So, that. is quite extraordinary and quite unique, I think, to understand why those people. thought that there would be something. better for them on the other side in the. first place. But, there are other people. coming from other areas, rather regions of Africa. And I think. it's important as well to put this in. the context of the much tighter controls. that there have been recently off the. coast of West Africa to prevent migrants. from making the crossing towards the. Canary Islands, for example, Spanish. territory out in that direction. So, that has in some sense has squeezed.

people north, and it is one reason why. some migrants from sub-Saharan Africa. will be trying to get to Europe through. Ceuta, through Melilla, through those. those Spanish autonomous cities in the. north of Africa. >> And what is happening to the people who. haven't gone back to Morocco, those who. are still in Ceuta? >> Well, all the political statements have. been really strong. So, the Spanish. Prime Minister, Pedro Sanchez, has. headed straight to Ceuta from handling. the wildfires in Spain. He's now. handling this migrant crisis in this.

Spanish exclave. Now, he is there. saying, "Look, these people will be. deported. They will be sent back to. Morocco." It's important at this point. to note as well that although Spain is. EU territory and Morocco is not, of. course, Um, and that normally if. somebody applies for asylum or um the. right to remain in the EU, that would. have to be. uh examined and considered uh on human. rights grounds. In uh between Morocco and and Spain, there is an arrangement that essentially.

allows Spain to push people back to. Morocco and Morocco is supposed to take. them. It is, I think, on the edge of uh. migration legality, let's say, but it's. something that happens. And so, the. Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez is saying. uh that these people will be pushed back. essentially, deported to Morocco. But, I. think that's a lot easier said than. done. There are at least 20,000, 25,000. uh people currently in Ceuta. They have nowhere to go. They have uh. nowhere to stay. Lots of people are. sleeping in the streets. I think the.

conditions are difficult. Perhaps some. of them will just go back. But, otherwise, there is quite a a big. humanitarian issue for the Spanish. government to contend with. And you. would expect at some point uh for at. least some of those people to be. transferred uh to the mainland of Spain. That is what's happened in the past. Although, in the last crisis, uh the. vast majority of the people who came. across eventually were deported back to. Morocco, and that happened very quickly. So, I think the Spanish want this to. happen as quickly as possible because. the longer it goes on, the harder it is. for them to handle. >> Yeah, it's also causing problems for.

them with Italy, which is threatening to. suspend its uh free border movement. between Spain and Italy. >> It is, but I think there's a lot of. politics at work in those words. So, very, very quickly, as soon as those. images began to spread over social media. of uh primarily young men uh rushing. across a border into EU territory, then. very, very quickly, Italy's hard-right. Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni went to. social media, and she talked about the. security risk to Europe. She talked.

about uh the shocking images. Uh and she. said that Italy would consider. suspending its Schengen agreement with. Spain. So, that by which people can come. from Spain to Italy with no uh no. impediment, no checks. Now, there is no. border between Italy and Spain. Uh the. only way that anyone could come here. would be by flying, and it's pretty. unlikely, let's say impossible, that. undocumented migrants are about to board. a plane from Spain to Italy. So, I think. this is primarily politics. It's It's. Meloni who's facing an election next.

year, losing votes to an even harder. right politician, and trying to appeal. to that electorate above all. But, migration is her issue. She has a hard. line on it, and she's reiterating that. at the moment. >> And what are broader relations like. between Spain and Morocco at the moment? Because sometimes in the past, we've. seen these uh mass migrant events when. there have been tensions between the two. nations. >> Exactly. And to be honest, the thing. that has sprung straight to my mind was. Belarus and Poland. Um a period in which.

Belarus was accused of weaponizing. migration by by allowing migrants across. the border into Poland at a period of. tension in that relationship. And this. looking at the Spanish situation with. Morocco, there are some echoes of that. uh here, certainly from the descriptions. that we're hearing uh from on the. ground. And And certainly, if we look. back to what happened in 2021, when it. was quite clear that the Moroccan. authorities basically stepped back and. allowed people to cross the border. The Spanish Prime Minister has been very.

clear to to play that down and to say. that uh Morocco uh is an ally, a close. ally, and that they are cooperating. Because he quite frankly wants to be. able to send people back to Morocco. So, so that's his his public line. But, the. relationship is complicated. It's all. about uh the Western Sahara region. It's. all about sovereignty there, who. recognizes who is the as the rightful. owner, if you like, of that territory. And the the relationship between Spain, Morocco, and Spain and Algeria, the. other. country in the mix there. So, there is a.

complicated diplomatic relationship in. the background, and it's something that. people are pointing to as they try to. explain what might have happened in this. massive surge of people rushing for the. border. >> Sarah, thank you. Sarah Rainsford, our. Southern Europe correspondent, talking. to us from Rome. If you'd like to hear. more from the Global News Podcast, click. the link below. But for now, thanks for. watching.