Why Henry Nowak's murder sparked a debate on race and policing in the UK | Global News Podcast

Welcome to the Global News podcast from. the BBC. I'm Valerie Sanderson and I'm. joined by our political correspondent. Rob Watson. Rob, there's been a huge backlash here. in the UK about the police treatment of. an 18-year-old called Henry Novak who. was murdered by a young British Sikh. man. >> So yes, Valerie, the murder happened on. December the 3rd of last year in. Southampton, which is in the south of. England. Now, the reason why it's become. such an explosive issue in the last few.

days is because it was only on Monday of. this week that the court found that. Vikram Diquar, 23 years old, was guilty. of murdering Henry Novak, who was 18, as. you mentioned. But. what has made this case so sensational. is that the family of Henry Novak agreed. to release the footage from the the the. body cameras of the police. And what. they showed was quite extraordinary and. quite desperate. And if anyone is going. to look at it, Valerie, I really.

strongly suggest they they prepare. themselves because. essentially the the young man is is. dying of a knife wound. He tells the. police that he's been he's been stabbed. that he can't breathe, but they still. handcuff him and he dies essentially in. their hands. At the same time, the body. cam footage shows that the the man who. actually carried out the murder, Vikram, he says he's been the victim of a racist. attack at the hands of Henry Novak. Now, that the court case found that was. absolute lies and that he was the.

perpetrator. Now, the reason why it's. exploded in this way is partly of course. just the just the sheer horror of this. video if you watch it. And millions of. people have watched it, Valerie. It's this sort of idea that somehow the. police. the police essentially were more. concerned about being accused of being. racist. They were responding to a call. that suggested that a essentially a. white person had perpetrated a racist. attack than seeing that someone was. dying in their hands and and that is.

what has made it so explosive. >> And Rob, this has become a political. lightning rod, hasn't it? Not just at. Westminster itself, but also on the. streets of Southampton, where Henry. Novak died. >> Yes, absolutely. We saw some pretty. violent protests in Southampton. A. pretty large crowd gathered outside the. where the police headquarters. in Southampton and who knows that there. may be other such protests. They were. certainly pretty violent pretty violent. and angry stuff. As to the political.

reaction, I mean by and large the. mainstream parties, by which I mean the. governing Labour Party, the main. opposition Conservatives and Liberal. Democrats have said, "Look, it's really. important not to make a bad situation. worse." That it's important to try and. bring people together. We don't want. societal tensions. We don't want. division. Although actually all of those. parties except what may what's if you. like is for some the central concern. here that perhaps the police have. overcompensated after years of being. accused of being institutionally racist. Perhaps they're now too worried about so.

worried about being called racist that. they behave in a way that perhaps most. people would find puzzling. But over off. on the right of British politics, by. which I mean that the sort of populists. of reform and restore, they're making a. different point. They're saying there is. quite clearly two-tier policing in. Britain where white people are not. treated as well as non-white people. And. actually they make a rather broader. point that society has gone in in such a. way in a wrong way as they would say it. that actually it's not just when it.

comes to policing. It's in all other. areas where where white people are. treated sometimes not as well as. non-white people. As as they would say. it, the state bends over backwards to. make up for past allegations of racism. >> Is there a feeling that this is. exacerbating. racial and cultural tensions that were. already existing here in UK society. >> Absolutely. And of course what Reform and Restore. the parties on the right is saying is.

this is the fault of mainstream. politicians because they don't recognize. how angry. white British people are that they say. that they've been made to feel like. second-class citizens. And they would. make the case, they have in fact been. making the case Val that look imagine if. the victims had been not white. Imagine. or remember how politicians in Britain. behaved including Kier Starmer the Prime. Minister when you had Black Lives Matter. when you saw him taking the the knee. But they're not doing that now. That.

that's the that's the sort of argument. on the right of British politics. The. the other parties much more making the. case look let's not make a bad situation. worse. And that parties like Reform and Restore. are absolutely doing that or are. exploiting tensions trying to make. things worse when actually the family of. the the boy who was killed, the man who. was killed, Henry Novak, they've said. absolutely that they do not want his. death to be a a cause for further. division. >> Is it your sense Rob that there's more.

concern about social cohesion here in. the UK perhaps than than there's been. for a long time? >> That is absolutely the case. I was. really struck by an opinion poll at the. end of last year by a polling company. called Ipsos that suggested I'm just. going to glance at the figures here Val. that 84%. of people say that the country feels. divided. And I think there's concern. about social cohesion absolutely across. the political spectrum in this country.

And of course depending on what end of. that spectrum you are, you see the. problem differently. So I mean I guess. those on the populist right say that the. problem with social cohesion is because. immigration has been far too high, because multiculturalism hasn't worked, because there hasn't been enough. integration. Where I think other people who think. that social cohesion is stretched, think. that's partly because of of populist. politicians. Although this incident.

involves a. a British citizen, someone who was born. here, the the perpetrator, yes, it of. course is bound to feed into this wider. debate about social cohesion and there. is no doubt it is a very big issue here. as is is of course immigration, which is. closely linked with social cohesion. >> And also concern about people's trust in. institutions like the police and and. indeed in in politicians and politics. >> Yes, absolutely. I mean we we often talk.

about the the sort of long-running. volatility in Britain, voter volatility, and a sort of general anger that's out. there and there is a there is a public. research group called More in Common. which has done some really in-depth. research into what is it what is it. that's driving, you know, this anger. amongst the British public and you know, part of it is economic stagnation which. we've had for a really long period now. in Britain, but absolutely part of it is. a is a lack of faith in institutions. That includes politics, parliament,

politicians, but absolutely also things. like. institutions like the police and the. courts. It's really widespread. So, you. know, incidents like this and you know, one keeps coming back to the the footage. of the from the policeman's body camera. It it is absolutely the kind of thing. that that enrages public opinion. >> And in the wake of this appalling murder. of this teenager Henry Novak, what steps. is the British government taking in.

order to try and soothe these racial and. cultural tensions? >> Well, it's pointing everybody to the. idea that there is going to be a very. serious review of what on earth went on. That will be a review of how the police. approach race relations and the extent. to which they they do deal with our past. history of racist allegations against. them. So, it it's essentially the. government saying, "Hey, look, you know, we are going to look at this very. seriously. There will be lessons learned. if perhaps the police are now. overcompensating, if you like, over past.

allegations of racism, you know, we will. accept that and we will deal with that.". But, I I mean, clearly, you know, it's. obvious that people are going to need an. awful lot of. reassurance. And because of that lack of. faith that people have in institutions, whether that's politicians or the. police, you know, times like this. are very precarious because, you know, it's getting more and more difficult to. reassure people after, you know, decades. of losing faith in politics, political.

institutions, and political leaders. So, in other words, if you like, we're in a. sort of a vicious cycle where, you know, the more the more angry people are with. politicians, the more difficult it is. for politicians to calm them down again. >> Thanks, Rob. That was our political. correspondent, Rob Watson. If you want. to hear more on this story, just listen. to our Global News Podcast. Click on the. link below. But, that's it from this. edition of the Global News Podcast here. on YouTube. Thanks for listening. Thanks.

for watching. And bye for now.