Why did the US capture Nicolás Maduro and what's next for Venezuela? | BBC News

Welcome to the Global News podcast on. YouTube, where we go behind the. headlines to find out more about his. story and why it matters. Today, we're. focusing on Venezuela, where in a. dramatic operation on Saturday, US. troops seized the president, Nicholas. Maduro, from the capital, Caracus. He's. appearing in court in New York on drugs. charges. Meanwhile, back in Venezuela, his vice president, Darcy Rodriguez, is. being sworn in as his interim successor. We're joined in the studio by our South.

America correspondent, Ioni Wells. Ioni, how did we get here? >> Well, for months and months and months, the US has been sending this huge. military deployment to the region, uh, and it has been ramping up the pressure. on Venezuela, carrying out these strikes. on alleged drug trafficking vessels, seizing oil tankers, uh, making direct threats to the. Venezuelan government. There was a lot. of speculation uh that the US was trying. to pressure Nicolas Maduro to step down.

uh and many speculated uh that it was. planning to escalate this further to to. plan strikes within Venezuela itself. I. think what took many people by surprise. was when those strikes came on Saturday. targeting military infrastructure in the. country. uh not only were many sites. within and around Karacus hit but of. course also Nicolas Maduro himself. seized taken from the country in this. dramatic exit. Uh this is a man who for. years held such a tight grip on on power.

in the country, controlled all the state. institutions and I think Venezuelans are. looking on in in total shock, disbelief. now at the images that we're seeing of. uh of President Maduro in his uh prison. outfit uh being taken by armed uh US. officials uh from from a detention. center to a courthouse. That is an. extraordinary pull from power for him. Uh and of course the US's justification.

for this is that they allege he is the. head of this criminal trafficking. organization in the country that he has. been conspiring to commit narotism to. import cocaine to the US that he. possesses weapons charges that he has. denied but which the US is using as. justification for this extraordinary. action. The US is using that. justification. But President Trump has. also used another word and it's a word. which very much chimes with the. skeptics. That word of course is oil.

How big a role is oil playing in all of. this? >> A major major role. Uh Venezuela had. long accused the US uh of just wanting. to steal its oil, saying that that was. the real reason why the US was ramping. up military pressure on Venezuela. >> That is it. and and Trump has. essentially admitted this. He has said. that now uh the US wants to uh get US. oil companies into the country uh that. it wants to develop uh the resource. further. He said this will enrich not.

just Venezuelans but also Americans too. And Trump is framing this as taking back. oil that was stolen from the US. Now. what I think he is referring to there is. the fact that there used to be more US. oil companies operating in Venezuela. uh. many of which left when the industry was. nationalized under Nicolas Madura's. predecessor Hugo Chavez. And he seems to. be saying that uh this is essentially. the US taking some of that back given. that some of those contracts were were. terminated early. Some companies lost. out on on millions and millions of.

dollars of compensation. Uh however, of. course, Venezuela would strongly dispute. that nationalization equates to stealing. the language that Donald Trump has used. So this is a heavily contested claim. that the US is making. Uh but certainly. they have basically said the quiet bit. out loud. They have very much themselves. now made this about oil. Uh which is as. you say is something that for a long. time skeptics of the US had been saying. this was really about. >> Yes. Although Donald Trump is also. trying to frame this as a win-win.

because it would be hard to say the the. oil was used for the general benefit of. the population under Nicholas Maduro. life under Nicholas Madura for a lot of. Venezuelans was really miserable. What. are the majority of Venezuelans thinking. now? >> Well, the feeling is mixed. Uh if we're. to take what the opposition say was the. real result uh in the la in the 2024 uh. election, the last presidential. election. Uh we we understand that the. majority of the country was not in favor.

of Nicolas Maduro's government. He still. does have some loyal supporters. Uh but. much of the country were deeply unhappy, deeply fearful of him and his. government. There was widespread. repression. Uh many political prisoners. Uh the economy was in a complete mess. There were severe shortages, a. humanitarian crisis. Access to certain. medicines for example, extremely. difficult. Uh millions of Venezuelans. have fled in recent years as a result. So there are many people who privately.

are [snorts] very uh happy that Maduro. is gone. Although even among I think. those critics of Maduro, there are sort. of mixed feelings. Some hope uh that. this is you know a moment of freedom. that this is a moment where they may now. see a path to a more democratic and more. free Venezuela. Others though I think. are quite apprehensive about what comes. next especially because for now the. government is still very much filled. with Maduro's allies. There isn't really. regime change uh yet. The only change to. the government has been the removal of.

Nicolas Maduro. And so I think some. Venezuelans are a bit worried about what. exactly happens now. Uh is there going. to be more repression? Are there going. to be sort of bitter power struggles. that might break out if for example uh. the current government is forced to do. the US's bidding? Uh will that cause. some of the Maduro loyalists to rebel. against against the government and cause. some power struggles? And then what. about the opposition? What do opposition. figures make of that if so? And what. about some of the uh paramilitaries, the.

military itself? where where will they. eventually uh stand on all of this. So I. think there are a lot of questions. leading as I say even some critics of. Maduro to feel quite unsettled really. about the situation. >> and it is interesting this relationship. that seems to be developing between the. White House and the acting president. Deli Rodriguez. She was of course. Nicholas Maduro's vice president. She's. now got her hands on the levers of. power. Tell us about her. Who who is she. and is she someone who could still be.

running the country in a year, two. years? >> Yeah, so she's now the interim. president. Uh but she is nobody new to. Venezuelan politics. Uh she's a lawyer. She rose up the ranks under Hugo Chavez. in Venezuela and then under Maduro. She. was communications minister, foreign. affairs minister at a time when. sanctions were imposed on the country. Uh she then later became Maduro's vice. president but also his oil minister. So. she's been responsible for that. industry. It's been in her portfolio. giving her huge power over the country's.

economy and oil industry. Uh and her. brother Jorge is is president of the. National Assembly. So she's deeply. embedded as is her family uh in the in. the Venezuelan government. What's really. interesting about her relationship with. with the US is that the US has has. claimed that she's been, you know, she's. had conversations with Marco Rubio, for. example, uh and uh the US is claiming. that she would in theory work with them, that she is prepared to take on what is. necessary to in Trump's words, make.

Venezuela great again. Now, we've heard. very conflicting statements over the car. last couple of days because she publicly. has said uh that what the US has done uh. is terrible, that Maduro is the only. legitimate president, uh that Venezuela. is prepared to fight and defend itself. But then we heard her soften her tone. somewhat and say that she wants the US. to cooperate within the realms of. international law. A suggestion there. that she is open to working with the US.

And Donald Trump I think has made it. clear why that might be. He has said. essentially that if Deli Rodriguez. doesn't do in his words the right thing. which I think we can read to mean what. he wants [laughter]. uh then she could face the same fate if. not worse than Maduro. So I think uh she. will be acutely aware that even though. she is now in charge of the country, she. has this threat hanging over her that if. she doesn't do as the US wants, she. could well face exactly the same fate as.

could many of the other ministers who. were still in in power in the country. >> There are questions over whether the US. action was legal. How much of a talking. point is that in Venezuela? and and. actually what happens if the conclusion. is that it wasn't legal? >> Yeah, it's a huge talking point uh not. just in Venezuela but actually the whole. of of Latin America right now and that's. because I think uh it is worth stressing. that even though as I say many in in. Venezuela but also many in in South. America more generally didn't like.

Nicolas Maduro. There is a deep unease. about US intervention. uh and that is. partly because many in Latin America. remember uh for example throughout the. 20th century the times when the US. backed military coups uh to impose more. favorable governments in in in in. countries around Latin America. They. remember the repression the human rights. abuses that were associated with some of. those periods. You know even in. countries like Brazil and Argentina and. Chile as well. Uh, and I think that uh.

does leave many people deeply skeptical. about the US's intervention and even. some Venezuelans I've spoken to who are, as I say, not fans of Maduro uh are. skeptical that the US is, you know, in. in the words of some of them just trying. to steal our oil, trying to steal our. resources. Uh there are some who support. President Trump uh notably the the. diaspora in the US particularly in. places like Florida that are uh. traditionally much more sympathetic to. President Trump uh to the idea of US.

intervention. But I would say that it's. not as simple as saying that just. because Maduro has been removed and many. people don't like him that they by. definition also back what Donald Trump. is doing. The question of legality is an. interesting one because the US is. framing this as law enforcement. They're. saying that this was them executing an. arrest warrant essentially that was out. against Nicolas Maduro. Many lawyers though think that is a huge. stretch to claim that uh you can.

essentially conduct strikes on a. sovereign country that you can grab a. leader and drag him out of the country. as a way to to to enact law enforcement. essentially. and and that is what is. leading many many lawyers to to question. the legality of this. Um the general. consensus among most lawyers is that. this is also a flagrant breach of the UN. conventions that that that govern. warfare around the world. Many saying. that this amounts to to the to breaking. the law of aggression. Um the US though. denies this. They say this is. self-defense. But I think to sort of uh.

for that for that argument to wash. legally, they would have to provide some. kind of evidence that they were. seriously at risk of, you know, an. attack on their sovereignty by. Venezuela. >> Yeah. And to briefly follow on from. that, I mean, this action does send a. very strong message to the leaders that. Donald Trump doesn't get on with around. the world, but specifically in the. region. How would you be feeling if you. were the president of Colombia today? >> I think pretty terrified. I think uh. Trump has not just through veiled.

threats but very explicit threats uh. hinted that Colombia could be next, that. Cuba could be next. He's told the. leaders of those countries to well he's. used rder language than I will but said. to watch their backs essentially. Uh and. uh he's accused for example Gustavo. Petro Colombia's president of being. involved in drug trafficking something. that he's denied. Um and I think you. know there are there are elections. coming up this year in Colombia. I think. it is almost guaranteed that President.

Trump will try uh to influence those uh. at least through his rhetoric if not. through his actions. Um you know he he. is very much I think signaling with with. what he has done in Venezuela that you. know regardless of international law he. feels he can use force to influence uh. essentially events in his backyard in a. way that many will remember from the. 20th century has been done by the US in. the past. Ioni, thank you. Ioni Wells, our South.

America correspondent. To find out more. about this story, do tune in to the. Global News podcast wherever you get. your BBC podcasts. You can subscribe to. us here on YouTube. And if you have an. idea for a story that you think we. should be covering here, do leave a. message in the comments below.