What could Israel do next in Gaza? | Global News Podcast

Hello, this is the Global News podcast. from the BBC. I'm Celia Hatton and today. I'm joined by our Middle East. correspondent Yolande Knell. And. Yolande, you've been a correspondent in. Jerusalem for some time now. When. Israel's leader, Benjamin Netanyahu, said that he wanted Israeli forces to. control 70% of Gaza, far beyond what was. agreed in the US brokered ceasefire, did. that surprise you? >> It did surprise us. It was the first. time we'd heard public remarks like this. from the Israeli Prime Minister. He was. speaking at a conference in the occupied.

West Bank in a Jewish settlement. Uh so it wasn't being very highly. attended by the media, but those remarks. came out. They've been caught on video. We did know that the Israeli military is. controlling more of the Gaza Strip than. was expected under President Trump's. peace plan. The map that came out back. in October showed this yellow line where. the Israeli military was left. controlling just over half of the Gaza. Strip. And you know, it's clear that it.

it controls now something like 60% of. the land that these yellow concrete. blocks that were put on the ground have. been moved. Um but 70% and then Mr. Netanyahu said also, "Let's go. step-by-step." Suggesting they could. take more. >> I mean, so how far could this go then? Uh 100%? >> I mean, I think first of all, we have to. look at who the Israeli Prime Minister. is talking to here. He was talking to. these leaders of pre-military academies.

for young Israelis. And they're on the. right wing, on the far right. Many people with religious nationalist. sentiment and of course that segment of. Israeli society has been calling for. Israel to fully reoccupy the Gaza Strip. and to reestablish Jewish settlements. there. Now that is not something that. Israel has signed up to as part of. President Trump's peace plan. But Mr. Netanyahu knows that this is. also a way of really putting pressure on.

Hamas and we have seen that increasingly. um, through Israel's actions in recent. weeks. And it's in particular been. targeting Hamas leaders in the Gaza. Strip in the past few weeks. We saw that. just a few days ago when the new leader. of the Hamas armed wing Muhammad Odah. was killed and many lower-level Hamas. officials have been targeted by Israel. as well with some civilians killed in. those strikes. >> Hm, so what does Israel want then for. the long term? Does it want a permanent.

presence in Gaza? >> I mean, the plan depends a bit on who. you talk to. Israel has made clear that. Hamas cannot remain in charge of Gaza. civilly or militarily. And so it said. that Hamas if it was not giving up its. weapons, that could happen the easy way. or the hard way. And it's using military. pressure on Hamas at the moment. But you. know, as I said, Israel signed up to the. the board of peace plan, the 20-point.

plan. And this is supposed to see an. international stabilization force going. into Gaza. There are thousands of new. Palestinian police officers have been. trained. to go in there as well. There's supposed. to be a Palestinian technocratic. committee which has been chosen. It's. sitting at the moment in Cairo that. would go in to take control of the. day-to-day affairs of the Gaza Strip. under the auspices. of the board of peace. Now, there are. some suggestions that because the plan. is not advancing as the US and others.

were really hoping for, that perhaps. what could happen is that the. international stabilization force. could go into the areas of the Gaza. Strip where the Israeli military is now. in control. And there might be attempts. in some of the areas where Israel has. basically sort of you know, raised all. the buildings to try to get Palestinian. contractors involved in constructing a. new homes for people to go into and. trying to encourage Gazans to go to. those Hamas free areas. Now, it's not.

clear if that's something that is at all. realistic and certainly Hamas would make. every effort to stop that from. happening. >> Can you talk us through more where this. leaves the Palestinians? Israel's Defense Minister Israel Katz. has spoken more about wanting the. Palestinians to leave Gaza voluntarily. So, where does this leave the people who. are still there and and their freedom of. movement? >> Yes, so already when we've spoken to.

Gazans in recent weeks, people have been. telling us that, you know, when they've. been living. relatively close to this so-called. yellow line, the Israeli gunfire is. increased, there's been Israeli shelling. nearby, and people have told us that in. parts of the edge of Gaza City, for. example, that they've then fled, they've. left. the damaged homes or the tents that they. had managed to set up there, that they'd. invested money in, and have fled. westwards towards the coast to try to. get away from it Israeli forces.

advancing. And what you're seeing in. general for Palestinians is that they. are being squeezed into a smaller and. smaller area of land. The conditions. there still humanitarian conditions. really dire, and and Palestinians feel. really afraid about what happens next. >> I mean, human rights groups have been. raising concerns about ethnic cleansing. taking place in Gaza. >> Yeah, and that's because of these. comments that Israel's Defense Minister. Israel Katz made this week. It was an. idea we hadn't heard about for some.

time, but when he was announcing that. this man Muhammad Oda had been targeted. and killed by Israel, he also brought. back this idea of Palestinians. emigrating from the Gaza Strip. You're. talking about some 2 million people, and. he was suggesting that this is still the. long-term plan and he said will happen. at the right time and in the right. manner. Now, human rights groups have been. warning that the forced displacement of. a population in occupied territory,

that is a violation of international. law. It can amount to ethnic cleansing, a war crime, a crime against humanity. >> Could Gaza become like the West Bank. where there are Israeli settlements or. like Lebanon where Israel has. established what it calls a combat zone? >> I mean all of these things are talked. about. Certainly we see sort of patterns. replicating themselves. with the different areas of conflict.

around this region where there are. Israeli forces engaged. What Israeli. forces have said they've done in Gaza is. to carve out some kind of a buffer zone. to protect Israeli communities living in. the south of the country from any. possible cross-border attack in the. future of the kind that was carried out. to such deadly effect on the 7th of. October 2023, that Hamas-led attack. which triggered the Gaza war. There are.

certainly sections of Israeli society. that are pushing for Israeli settlements. to be reestablished in the Gaza Strip. because they were there in the past and. Israel withdrew unilaterally from Gaza. before Hamas took over there back in. 2006. And you know, what exactly happens to Gaza, there have. been polls indicating this week that. a majority of people in Gaza are looking. to leave, but I think these are people. who are responding to the fact that.

they're living in just absolutely. desperate conditions on the ground and. they see at the moment that the. situation is really deadlocked. These. indirect talks that have been going on. between Israel and Hamas with the US. involved and other mediators as well. Um really on this issue of Hamas. disarmament, they have and advancing. President Trump's peace plan, they have. just got stuck. Hamas is not showing any. sign that it's willing um to to. decommission its weapons and the US led.

board of peace has made clear that there. cannot be Israeli troop withdrawals, there cannot be reconstruction in Gaza. unless Hamas uh proceeds with that. Now, under the terms of the the board of. peace, it does say specifically that um. Gaza will be redeveloped for the benefit. of its people um and that they have. suffered more than enough. That is the. the wording um. of the agreement. So, there is that. commitment there. Uh it's hard to see.

that, you know, the international. community could support a. reestablishment of Jewish settlements in. Gaza or a long-term Israeli takeover of. the Gaza Strip um with the the. Palestinians forced to leave. But, you. know, there are. those within the settlement movement who. are used to biding their time and and. taking steps when they can do so. >> It is important to note that Benjamin. Netanyahu, all Israeli politicians, are. looking ahead to an election that's just.

around the corner. How does that color. what's happening? >> I mean, definitely, I think everything. that happens right now, um you have to. imagine that is with half an eye on the. Israeli parliamentary elections which. are coming up. They have to take place. um by October. And polls at the moment. are against the Israeli Prime Minister. Benjamin Netanyahu. He knows that and. he's acting under pressure and in the. particular, he is trying to galvanize um. his right-wing base, um maybe cut into.

the support of some of his coalition. partners, too, who are a more on the on. the far right, um, in terms of of the political spectrum. >> And what's the wider conversation then. that's happening in in Israel among. voters? What do they want to have happen. in Gaza? >> I think Israelis still really do fear. Gaza very much, um, and they they fear. the conflicts that are happening, um, all around them. But, you know, people.

have very different answers about what. should happen as a result. Um, a lot of. commentary at the moment about how. really, you know, solving the. Israel-Palestinian conflict, the. underlying big issue here, that remains. the elephant in the room, and there are. not that many Israeli, um, politicians. who are putting that front and center of. of their, um, conversations, certainly. not of their campaigns for this. election. >> And then just to finish, Yoland, I mean,

we've been talking a lot about what. leaders have been saying should take. place in Gaza, different opinions around. what's happening there. But, how are. people inside Gaza coping from. day-to-day? Are supplies getting in? How. are they getting by? >> Yeah, I mean, one of the big complaints. from people in Gaza, they see that. Israel has not met its commitments under. the ceasefire plan in terms of the. amount of humanitarian aid that's being. allowed in. And a recent, um, Israeli. court decision upheld the tight, uh,

restrictions, the new regulations that. Israel has been imposing on. international humanitarian. organizations, um, when it comes to to. registration, um, which has stopped. many, um, international names from being. able to work effectively in the Gaza. Strip anymore. Um, Israel says it is. allowing in large amounts of food into. Gaza and other supplies as well, but a. lot of this is going through merchants. in the private sector. So, um,

many ordinary Gazans who just don't have. the money to buy things on the market, they tell us they're still relying. heavily. on aid, and they don't see any positive. signs in the future at the moment. Most people living in these displacement. camps or in damaged buildings across the. strip, and really, you know, we've heard reports in recent. weeks of about the number of pests, you.

know, rats and. mosquitoes, the problems that these are. causing for people. It's just very. difficult living conditions with, you. know, no. improvements at the moment to the. humanitarian infrastructure. So, there's problems with waste and. sewage, and as it gets into summer with. the hotter temperatures, those problems. are just going to get worse and worse. for people, and there's a lot of worry. about disease.

>> Thanks, Yolande. Our Middle East. correspondent, Yolande Knell, in. Jerusalem. I'm Celia Hatton. If you want. to listen to more of the Global News. podcast, click the link below. Thanks. for watching.