Is the tide turning on social media? | Global News Podcast

Welcome to the Global News podcast from. the BBC where we go behind the headlines. to delve deeper into a story. I'm. Valerie Sandunderson. We've had social. media now for something like 20 years. and some of us including many children. use it every single day. But with. lawsuits being filed and government. restrictions coming into force, our. attitudes changing. Is the tide turning. against social media? Well, I'm joined. by our technology editor, Zoe Klyman. And Zoe, it's true to say, isn't it,

that there are many more cases being. filed against social media companies. >> I think there's two things going on. here. The first is that there is a long. process, uh, legal process, you know, for these cases to get to where they've. got. So, um, this has not happened. quickly. The the these cases have been. going through the motions for quite a. long time. I also think it's something. that we are talking a lot more about. people are much more aware of and they. feel very strongly about and and that is. partly I suppose cumulative isn't it you.

know over the last 20 years we now have. um a real perspective of the impact that. social media has had on society and. particularly on young people and it's. making a lot more people feel a lot more. strongly that um you know perhaps we. should have handled this differently. Is. it fair to say, do you think that these. young people are guinea pigs? >> I think that there has been to an extent. an experiment carried out here because.

nobody knew that social media would do. what it did and that people wouldn't use. it in the way that they did. I remember. uh Mark Zuckerberg, the boss of Meta, you know, formerly Facebook, when he was. first challenged with the fact that his. social platform was being used to. manipulate elections and he looked. absolutely horror struck and he sort of. denied it and said, you know, of course. not, of course that's not happening. He. just couldn't believe that that was the. case, but it was the case. It is the.

case that is exactly what was going on. And so I think it's been a quite a. dramatic learning curve for both the. tech companies and us as users in terms. of you know exactly how much impact it's. had. And I think nobody really foresaw. it being or becoming as powerful and as. toxic as it did. You know if you think. about how Facebook started, it was. basically a way of you know meeting. girls in university, wasn't it? was.

never meant to become this thing that. half the planet uses. >> But I suppose the argument is that the. apps aim to maximize the time that. people spend scrolling and that leads to. addictive behavior. So there's a really. interesting argument I think around the. use of the word addiction and it's at. the heart of these cases that are going. on in the US right now because the. social media companies say you have to. be able to prove you know legally that.

our platform was the only thing that. drove mental health crisis. And as we. know that's a very difficult thing to. say because often mental health issues. are caused by a number of reasons. They. might be exacerbated by one particular. thing, but there's often lots of things. going on. And I think the same with the. word addiction. It's how do you prove. that you're addicted to social media in. a clinical sense? What does that. actually look like? What does that mean? You are right that these platforms have. been designed to be attractive um.

because they're funded by advertising. And essentially, the longer you spend on. that site, the longer your eyeballs are. there, the more ads you're likely to see. and the more money the platform can. make. And that's how you get to use it. for free. And you're right that they are. designed. I heard a statistic the other. day that um the algorithm that powers. Tik Tok is updated for every eight. videos you watch to make sure it's. absolutely tuned in to exactly what it. is that you're looking at so that it can. serve you up more of it or more things. like it and try to keep you there. But.

addiction. is something else, isn't it? It's a. clinical definition. And are people. clinically addicted to social media? Well, that's one of the things that are. on trial here. I suppose families say as. far as their children go, the onus is on. them to ensure that there's a safe. experience online and the social media. companies aren't doing enough to make. sure it is safe, particularly for those. under 16. >> I think there have been a real sense of. of handing over that responsibility to. parents. You've seen the social networks.

come out with an enormous amount of. tools for parents, right? Designed to. help parents monitor um what their. children have access to, who can message. them, how long they can see things for, all of that kind of thing. And. interestingly, um Sir Nick Kle, who has. now left Meta that used to work there, said they had all these tools, but. parents weren't using them. The uptake. was quite low. And what the feedback was. was that actually this is quite. overwhelming. You're talking about. dozens of tools. you know your child is. on multiple social networks. How are you.

supposed to manage this all? Why is it. why is it all your job? Um I think you. are right that um there has been very. much an attempt to push this onto. parents as something for individual. families to manage. Um the argument. being I suppose that all children are. different and different rules will apply. to different personalities and some. children will be have problems in. different areas than others. And yet if. you look at the rules of the online. safety act here in the UK, um the.

responsibility for keeping children safe. online is very much not with the parents. legally in the UK. It lies with the. companies. >> and big tech. I mean they do argue that. there are good things about social. media, don't they? That it fosters. creativity, that it helps community. Do. >> you know what? I've been doing this job. for a long time and I have spoken to so. many people about social media and I've. heard some utterly heartbreaking, awful. stories that I will never forget and. they are totally tragic and every.

tragedy is one too many. But I have also. heard from lots of people who've had. amazing experiences. They've formed. communities around the world that they. would never have met. They've had they. found partners. They found. relationships. They found lost family. members. They've started businesses. Um, you know, as with so much of this. technology, it's not a black and white, this is good, this is bad. I think it's. all very nuanced and and each person. will have a different experience. You. and I can go to the same social network. at the same time and we will see.

something totally different because it. will be, you know, set up in different. ways for us. So, I think it is it is it. is a very complex and nuanced debate. about, you know, is social media 100%. uniformly bad? It's hard to it's hard to argue either. way, isn't it? >> Is it your sense though the cultural. tide is turning against social media? >> I think what is interesting is that just. as all of this is starting to come into. the fall, we're also seeing a trend.

where younger people in particular are. moving away from social media. They're. moving much more into smaller, more. personal sort of chat groups. Um and and. these networks are kind of aging. You. know, Facebook is still the grand dam. It's still used by billions of people. It is by far the biggest network in the. world, but it's aging up. It's used by. their parents and even their. grandparents, but it's not necessarily. used by them. And I think we're going to. see potentially signs that all of these. platforms are starting to age because. younger people are not necessarily.

seeking them out. They're more connected. now. They don't need to find those. connections in the same way that perhaps. the previous generation did, you know, because they're they've already got. them. Is there a sense though, do you. think that the past 20 years it's been a. bit like the wild west and there haven't. been enough rules? >> I have heard this called the wild west. so many times and I've heard so many. times that the wild west is over now and. guess what I don't think it is. I think. we are still slightly in the wild west.

and uh something changes and another and. another issue pops up because of course. it's dynamic and it's you know it is. very much dependent on the use of. millions of people around the world. It's it's what everybody's doing with. it, isn't it? That that is causing the. um issues that it does. And certainly. there is much more scrutiny. There is. much more regulation coming down the. line. There is much more pressure from. society for these companies to get it. right and to um become more responsible. for um their products and the way in.

which people are using them. You know, it is um interesting, isn't it, that. they're protected in the US by section. 230, which does not define them as. publishers, whereas um you know, every. other broadcaster or publisher is. responsible for what's on its platform. They're not. And you know, you could. argue that that's kind of out of date, isn't it? That these are very much. publishing content on their platforms. And why shouldn't there be a bit more. responsibility from them for that? >> I think Zoe, it's true to say that the. real concern is about children. So, do. you think this idea of a ban on children.

under 16, something that Australia's. brought in that other countries like the. UK, France, and Spain are looking at. that that really is the future? >> I think it's certainly a very popular. option at the moment. Um, and I think. it's probably quite likely to travel. because there's a lot of of sense that. that's what uh people want. Um I also. think though that there is a question. some people say you know are we. preparing children for the world around. them if we ban them from the tools that.

they are seeing all the adults using and. that they are likely to be using. themselves um you know you could argue. that there is much more need for digital. literacy for um better understanding and. better education about how to use these. tools responsibly than just sort of. hiding them away. Um on the other hand, there has been a lot of time and a lot. of opportunities for these companies to. um make their platforms safe safer for. children. They of course say that they. have, but we still keep hearing these. awful stories of things going very wrong.

and and children coming to harm. Maybe. it is the moment to say, well, we've. given you every chance to try to fix. this. You haven't been able to. So now, um you know, this is going to be a job. for regulators. >> Thanks, Zoe. That was our technology. editor, Zoe Klyman. And if you. particularly like this episode, please. subscribe to us here on YouTube. And if. there's another story you want us to. look into, please tell us in the. comments below. More international news. on our Global News podcast. Find it.

wherever you get your podcasts. But. that's it from this edition of the. Global News Podcast here on YouTube. Thanks for listening and thanks for. watching. Till next time. Bye-bye.