Iran: The civilian toll of war | Global News Podcast

Welcome to the BBC's Global News podcast. on YouTube. I'm Andrew Peach. I'm joined. today by Noel Amegafie, the BBC's senior. investigations correspondent. Noel, thank you for being with us. Let's talk. about life for ordinary civilians in. Tehran and other Iranian cities right. now. What have you been able to find. out? For the last 4 weeks, Andrew, I've. been speaking to people across Iran, and. one thing that is unanimous between. everyone I've spoken to, whether they. are pro the regime or against, or is.

fear. You know, people are terrified. They are terrified of the bombs that. are, you know, falling from the air, and they're also terrified of the. oppression on the ground, speaking out. I feel like there's so much widespread. paranoia on the ground. People are. finding it very difficult to speak out. about what's happening. We have found it. incredibly hard to find people to tell. their story and share their stories with. us, because they're so scared of what might. happen to them. We've read about lots of.

journalists being arrested over the last. couple of weeks. And amidst all of that, they're having. to survive the bombing. You know, just today I was speaking to. someone on the ground, and she told me. yesterday the bombing was non-stop, and. then there was lightning, and I couldn't. differentiate between the two. And. Tehran is a very densely populated city. It's very congested, and some of these. targets are in those neighborhoods. And a lot of the people that are there. don't know where these targets are. So,

they're at home not knowing when a bomb. may drop right beside their own homes. So, there's a lot of fear on the ground. right now. >> And give me a sense of some of the. eyewitness testimony you've heard about. being there when bombs are falling, but. also about people's daily lives and how. they've been affected. So, I mean, just. speaking about the people that we've. been speaking to, people are afraid to. go out shopping. They just had Nowruz a. week ago, which is usually a very. celebratory period. We had footage come.

to us from the markets, and they seemed. completely empty. So, people were too. afraid to go out to the markets to shop. for them. In Ramadan, it was really hard. for people to meet up to break their. fast. You know, at one point I received a. voice note from someone who said, "Oh, there was an attack near us today in. downtown, and I was trying to go to. another location, and on the way there. we saw three attacks happen. just on route." And then they said, "We. were so lucky not to make that. destination because actually that was. attacked, too." And so, yeah, it's been.

really hard for people to go about their. day-to-day lives, and they don't know. how long this is going to go on for. Noel, let's focus in on just one of. those attacks, cuz you've studied them. in some detail, I know. Just talk us. through one attack, what it was targeted. at as far as we can tell, and what. actually happened. So, we focus on two. attacks, but one of them is quite. significant. It happened in an area. called Ressalat Square, which is in the.

northeastern part of Tehran. And just to give you an idea of Ressalat. Square in January, this was one of the. areas where thousands of people had gone. out to protest against the regime. Now, the target in this area, it was an. Israeli attack. It was a Basij compound. The Basij is a militia that is a part of. the IRGC, the Iranian Revolutionary. Guard Corps. And that was the target. So, it was attacked, but alongside it.

three residential buildings were also. attacked. with three different bombs. And we. looked at satellite imagery, so we were. able to see. how bad the attacks were. And with that, we were able to present this to military. experts that gave us an idea of what. kind of weapons are being used in this. war. And they said, based on what they. can see, that it's most likely. a Mark 80 series 2,000-lb bomb. These. are really heavy bombs, and they create.

a huge radius of damage. And what we saw. is 65 m away from where these buildings. are hit, we could see damage going that. far. And we're hearing of 3,600. bombs have been dropped by the IDF in. Tehran alone. Already, the Iranian authorities are. saying that about 80,000 buildings have. been flattened in the last 4 weeks. And. what are the US and Israel saying about.

strikes like the one that you've just. described to us in some detail? What. sort of responses you had from them? So, based on our investigation, we presented. our findings to the IDF, and the IDF did. confirm that they were indeed. responsible for these two strikes. They. said that in Ressalat Square they were. targeting what they said was the Basij. compound, although we were able to make. clear that only one building was a part. of the Basij, and three others were. residential. And then when we followed up with that,

they didn't comment. And we also put our findings to the US. Department of Defense, and they didn't. respond, either. But they do say, generally, that they are targeting Basij. compounds, they are targeting IRGC. leaders and police stations because they. want to weaken the state in hope that. the people of Iran will then take this. opportunity to go out and protest. And. all those things deliberately placed. alongside where people live? It's hard.

to say because, you know, this Basij. compound was clearly identified on. Google Maps. You know, everyone knew it. was there. And also, the homes of IRGC members, they are around the city. I think it's. What's quite shocking, I would say, is. the use of such heavy weapons in cities. like this. There are other weapons that. are more precise that don't cause such a. wide radius of damage that could be used. in areas like this. But these heavy weapons will have a huge. impact on civilian areas if they are. used there.

>> And we should say that Iran has also. struck civilian areas elsewhere in the. Gulf. >> Of course. I mean, we've seen Iran's. retaliation to this attack cause chaos. across the world. I mean, we've seen. multiple attacks daily across the Gulf, not only on commercial infrastructure, but also on civilian infrastructure. We've seen attacks on Israel, on. civilian areas and neighborhoods. So, they are definitely fighting back, and I think the world is quite surprised. about how.

long they've been able to fight back. for. Are there any relief efforts going. on? >> Yes. I would say that the relief efforts in. Iran are strained, but what we are. seeing is that the Red Crescent there is. quick to get to areas that have been. attacked. We're also hearing that there. are lots of volunteers joining the Red. Crescent, unpaid young volunteers that. are joining to help with the with the. relief efforts across the country and in. and in Tehran. But it's the supplies.

that are being strained. You know, one. of the people on the ground, she's. waiting for her daughter to be pulled. out of the rubble. She's been waiting. for 3 days, and still they haven't been. able to find her. And she talks about. how, you know, they don't have any. search dogs, they don't have the right. equipment. People are stuck underneath. the rubble, and they don't know how to. pull them out, and that's something that. we've heard consistently. Everyone's. different, of course. Many people will. just want the basics of life to be. better than they are. But do people. blame the Iranian regime? Do people. blame the United States and Israel? What.

are people in Tehran and elsewhere in. the country saying? I mean, I'll tell you honestly, I've. asked this question over and over again, and I'm not getting a straight answer, and it's really hard to ask people a. question like this considering what they. are going through. You know, they're. having bombs raining down on them, and. people are losing family members, loved. ones in the process. And so, I think it's really hard to say, but we've seen pieces go out by. colleagues where people have said, "Keep. the bombs coming. We want change.". But then also, you have people that have.

had bombs drop on their homes, and. they're not going to go out of this. saying, "Oh, please keep them coming. We. want regime change.". And so, I think it's really difficult to. answer that question. >> going to ask you about the start of the. conflict when President Trump talked. about the hour of freedom being at hand, and talking about some kind of change to. government in Iran. That's not talked. about in diplomatic terms anymore. Do. people talk about it on the streets of. the cities? I think there are a lot of. people in Iran that were very hopeful.

in Iran and outside of Iran, Iranians in. the diaspora that were very hopeful that. if this attack was going to happen, it. would create, you know, immediate regime. change. But I think the longer that this. drags on for, and the more people we are. seeing, the more civilians we are seeing. impacted and killed in the process, people's hope is wearing thin, and. they're starting to wonder if this is. actually achievable in this way. And. when you start losing loved ones, I. think you start questioning it more. Noel, thank you. Noel Amegafie, the.

BBC's senior international. investigations correspondent. For more. from the Global News podcast, do click. the link below. From me, Andrew Peach, thank you for being with us.