Europe's wildfire crisis | Global News Podcast

Welcome to the Global News podcast from. the BBC. I'm Ankur Desai. Today, I'm. joined by our climate editor, Justin. Rowlatt. Uh Justin, it's always great to. have you on. Uh but we are talking about. something uh which is quite concerning, uh the wildfires which are spreading. across Europe. Just describe the scope. of them and how vast they are. >> Ankur, these are really big fires. So, the Spanish authorities say these fires. are six times bigger than the fires they. experienced last year. Typically, across. the whole of the fire season which. starts in June and about the end of.

September, across the whole of the fire. season, on average, Spain would see. 100,000 hectares burnt. They've already. had 135,000. hectares burnt. So, these these are. already bigger than the the annual. average. And in France, similarly, this. is way bigger than they've seen before. Started earlier, burning more. extensively, and also, you know, burning. a lot hotter than they expect these. fires to burn. >> And the Spanish Prime Minister, Pedro. Sánchez, he's talked about this being a. climate emergency. Do you just I mean, how big an emergency is this? Because it. feels like every time there is a spread.

of wildfire, it becomes more and more. dangerous, I guess. >> Well, the emergency comes because. climate change, as we know, is making. summers and springs hotter and drier. Um. and obviously, high temperatures and low. rainfall create the conditions uh you. know, that allow these fires to to burn. and and burn extensively. Uh but it's. also combined actually, interestingly, with the quite wet winter. Now, that. isn't necessarily a climate uh issue cuz. rainfall varies quite dramatically year. to year, but the wet winter allowed lots.

of vegetation to grow. Then, when we had. a dry, very dry spring, very dry summer, the vegetation dries out. You've got. loads of fuel, loads of tinder. So, when. a spark comes uh and lights a fire, there's much more fuel to burn. And. that's why we're seeing such hot fires. with these extraordinary kind of. meteorological phenomena, these. pyrocumulonimbus. clouds, these fire-driven thunderclouds. that are rising above some of the fires, literally creating their own weather. So, they draw in huge amounts of air as.

the plume of smoke rises into the high. atmosphere. So, create these. unpredictable winds, often dramatic. downdrafts, which can change the. direction of the fire, fan the flames, but also lightning, which can spark even. new blazes. And then uh sometimes, you. know, it can be beneficial, you get some. rain. But often, the fire's so hot, the. rain actually evaporates before it hits. the ground. So, really kind of we're. seeing some really unusual, really. dramatic things. These are the kind of. things that you typically see in, you. know, in in wildfires in Canada and. America, these huge wildfires you get.

over there. And you see these kind of. these these these thunderclouds formed. by the cloud the fire. Very unusual in in Europe. And again, an. indication just of how exceptional this. fire season is. >> Yeah, and something else I've heard you. talk a lot about as well, the. accumulated vegetation and the abandoned. land, which can also provide fuel to. these fires. >> Yeah, it's really interesting, you know, um Spain and France both have seen this. kind of exodus from rural areas as, you. know, agricultural techniques have. changed and the jobs have drawn people.

in. So, as older people die, they've. been leaving the countryside. And that. means there's a lot of a kind of. abandoned land, as you say. And often, that grows, turns to scrub. And scrub, which as I say, can dry out quite. easily, then becomes tinder, becomes. fuel for fires. So, another reason, it's. kind of the management of our. landscapes, you know, that needs to be. addressed if we're going to begin to. tackle that, cutting fire breaks in. exactly those kind of conditions, which, you know, dry scrub, one spark, and you. know, you can have a huge conflagration.

>> I guess, Justin, what can we do now um. to to help prevent these fires becoming. a regular occurrence going forward? It. feels as though local officials talk. about forest management, they talk about. planting different types of trees. What. are some of the methods, I guess, we all. need to think about now going forward? >> Well, we've talked a bit about that fuel. accumulating. And you know, these forest. management methods that you're talking. about often are about reducing that and. there are quite interesting things they. can do. For example, putting big kind of. grazing animals in there to eat it,

goats maybe, cows, you know, back in the. old days you'd have aurochs, these huge. kind of buffaloes that would be in the. you know, in the thousands of years ago. in the forest. So maybe bringing some of. those animals back to reduce the amount. of. scrub and and grasses and brush there is. there. And also they're talking about. controlled burn, something we do see in. other forest areas again in in North. America and in Canada you sometimes see. that. So in kind of. dry seasons when the but when the. ground's quite wet so it's quite. controllable you can burn some of that.

bush brush away and that can you know, means there's less fuel for the fires. But it's something else rather more. dramatic that they're talking about. doing not just in Spain and France but. as far north as. the UK and into Scandinavia is cutting. fire breaks again something you see. quite commonly in. >> [snorts]. >> places like Canada but big fire breaks. which means that break the forest and. allow an opportunity for you know, the. fire services to get in and kind of. control the fire doesn't immediately. jump to the next trees. So that's. something we may be seeing and that may. really change the way that our natural.

environment looks, you know, the wild. spaces that natural parts that we've got. may have these rather brutal kind of. lines cut through them in order to. prevent well, frankly to prevent the. whole lot going up in flames in the. future because as the climate continues. to warm, we can expect even drier. summers and therefore, you know, even. more kind of fire susceptible. landscapes. >> Justin, with your experience and when. you when you watch the coverage, what do. you think we're missing? What what what. do you think sometimes we need to be.

more aware of and and sometimes it sort. of goes under the radar, things which. frustrate you that we maybe need to be. talking about more or be aware of? >> Well, I have to say when you look at the. footage it's so dramatic, isn't it? You. know, it looks you know, apocalyptic. It's terrifying and I you know, I think. it should serve as a reminder to us all. of the kind of consequences of allowing. climate change to continue to drive uh. temperatures up. I think the other thing. sometimes people look at these things. and think, "Well, that's an issue for. Spain and France." When they should. really be thinking, "How's that going to.

How is climate change going to change. You know, if you don't live in Spain and. France, you live elsewhere, maybe in a. more northerly. um. uh latitude?" Thinking, "Well, this is. something that could come our way and. maybe we should be beginning to think. about how we change the way we manage. our landscape to stop this happening um. when we get similarly hot, dry uh. springs and summers. >> Do you sense there will be more. political will to do something about. this a lot quicker, be more proactive uh. and in terms of taking action and and. dealing with climate change? Are there. are there leaders now going to have to.

now sit down together, a lot of them, like you mentioned, from countries which. may not be typically affected by. wildfires, but everybody needs to now. have a better consensus in terms of how. to tackle this going forward? >> Well, we've often said that the way to. tackle climate change is for countries. to get together. You know, a few years. back, there was pretty broad global. consensus that climate change was an. important issue to tackle collectively. as a world community. That has kind of. evaporated a bit, partly driven by uh. the president of the United States, who's quite skeptical about climate.

change and the requirement to to tackle. it. So, that's kind of weakened that. global consensus. But, you know, it's. interesting, isn't it? You see the. Spanish uh Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez. saying, "This is evidence of a climate. emergency." And I think, you know, as we. said, you look at the pictures, it. certainly looks like a very dramatic. emergency situation. And, you know, I'm. One one hopes that for people who want. action on climate change, this will. stimulate uh leaders to say, "This is. something, you know, I don't want to.

have to be explaining to my uh. electorate why we didn't begin to tackle. this issue uh sooner." So, hopefully. there will be an impetus to, you know, become more ambitious in tackling. climate change. >> And just finally, I guess us as human. beings, as a society, a world global. society, what what could we be doing. more? And what sort of conversations do. we need to be having amongst ourselves, even with our family members across the. dinner table, perhaps? >> Well, it comes down to the requirement. to ultimately tackle the source of. climate change, greenhouse gas. emissions. We need to reduce those. I.

mean, the good news is that globally, we. appear to be reaching kind of peak CO2. emissions, partly cuz machines and stuff. are getting more efficient, partly. because we're using more renewable. energy. That is good news, but remember. that the car carbon dioxide we put in. the atmosphere stays there for hundreds, sometimes thousands of years. So, there's a stock of it up there. We've. got to stop adding to that stock. So, as. it's okay to it's great that we're we're. plateauing our emissions, but really we. need to drive them down more. dramatically. So, we should all be. thinking about how we can kind of reduce.

our emissions, you know, maybe fly a bit. less, use the car a bit less, public. transport, maybe eat a bit less meat, which is associated with methane, which. is another greenhouse gas. So, they're. all those things, they're familiar. things, frankly, that we can do, that we. should be concerned about. And the other. thing, of course, is if you're worried. about climate change, you know, articulate that concern, speak out about. it, write to your. you know, your member of parliament, your local political representative, and. say, "This is something I care about, and I want to know what you're doing. about it." That will raise the priority. in their mind, and hopefully help them.

recognize that this is a challenge that. they should address and begin to. begin to tackle. So, I think those are. all ways that we can get involved in the. kind of conversations we need to have. with each other. >> Justin Rowlatt there, our climate. editor. That's all from us for now. If. you want some more content from the. Global News Podcast, click on the link. below. For now, thanks so much for your. company, and I'll see you on the next. one.