Howard Lutnick Exposes Washington’s Biggest Lies

Do you go to New York much? Uh, never. I. I closed my house. Oh, wow. I basically. uh I tricked my wife. You know how your. wife always wants to uh renovate your. house? No idea. So, my wife that's like. my wife always wants to renovate my. house, right? Every minute I've been. alive, my wife has wanted to renovate. parts of my house. So, we moved out once. a year and a half ago. Uh uh we moved. out for a year and a half about six. years ago. And she only did half the. house. And she still rued the day that.

she only did half the house. Really? Yeah. So that so this so that was the. deal. What I did is I uh bought a house. wash and said, "You want to renovate the. house?" She said, "Yeah." I said, "Great. We hired a contractor." Wait, you brought Brett Bear's house? No. Yeah, that's a beautiful house. We can I. can talk about whatever you want. By the. way, I'm happy to talk about serious. things, casual things. No, let's just do. this. Let's roll because he's roll. You're already running, right? He's on. fire. All right, besties. I think that was. another epic discussion. People love the. interviews. I could hear him talk for.

hours. Absolutely. Oh, he crushed your. questions. I made it. We are giving. people ground truth data to underwrite. your own opinion. What do you guys. think? That was fun. That was great. Howard, thanks for being here. Thanks. for joining myself and David Freeberg on. the All-In podcast. I want to take a. step back before we talk about today and. instead talk about your friendship with. the president, how it started, how you. guys got to know each other and walk us. through the moment when you, you know, frankly went out on a limb a little bit,

stepped up, became the campaign finance. chair, and then just that evolution. So, I've known the president since I was 30. years old. So, I used to go on the uh. call, we call it the charity circuit in. New York. Sure. So there's basically a. charity party every night when you live. in New York. Like the rubber chicken. dinner. Like literally the rubber. chicken. And and uh so sort of every. night you go out and uh and. so the boss of my company, Bernie Caner, he got tired of going, right? So he.

didn't want to go. So he would send me. with his wife and I would be her walker. You know, I'm the 30-year-old CEO of the. company. and I'd take her to the party. and uh and after the party I'd put her. in a limo and she'd go home and DJT. would say, "Well, let's go out." And so. we'd go out. It wasn't planned, but he. was at the party. He's 45. I'm at the. party 30. And we chase the same girls. Okay. It's basically it worked out fine. And and by the way, here's the thing.

about Donald Trump. He was the most. famous, the most fun. Yeah, the most. interesting person 30 years ago, 33. years ago. I mean, here's the best. thing. He's been on the cover of Time. magazine. 59 times. No way. And then he leans over. to me and he goes, "And 20 were good.". Like, but who can take that? Yeah. I. mean, who could take like other people. when you have a bad cover of Time. magazine, you'd crumple, right, and be.

sand on the floor and said he's like, but so Howard is is it that he's just. totally wired to. understand that moment like of being a. public figure or like what is it that's. so unique about what constitutes the. ability to navigate that over 40 years? I think it it it adds energy to him to. him. Right. So everybody else's energy, what they don't understand is people. bring negative energy to Donald Trump, right? And they're just charging his.

battery. Okay? Your energy around him. comes to him. So when I come at him with. a lot of energy, he comes back with a. lot of energy. Right. Right. It doesn't. matter. He never he never steps back. He. just sort of takes it like the. centrifuge and then hurls it back at. you. And he's been that way always. So. this is not new. This is just who he is. This is who he is. So, so those other. people who attack him, they think. they're attacking him, they're charging. his battery. They're literally charging. his battery. So, he comes back bigger,

stronger, bigger, stronger. And once you. understand the man, the most intuitive. person that you've ever met. Yeah. And. people say, "Well, okay, so people who. know me, I don't suffer fools." And they. have all these derogatorial, my left. liberal friends, all these derogatory. statements about the guy, right? And. they know me really well. Yeah. Right. And they'd say, "Well, how can you work. for him?" I'd say, "How can I work for. him?" The most intuitive person, he. senses it. He knows it. He calls me up.

and he says, "Panama Canal." That's what. he says. He goes, "Panama Canal." It. just feels wrong. Right. And then he. sends me on the quest to go I I didn't. do anything. I just start the quest to. go look at it. Yeah. Right. The mouth that's east is a deep water. port by the Chinese. The mouth that's. west is a deep water port by the. Chinese. They're building bridges over. it. So our ships and our military ships. should go under right in our hemisphere.

a Chinese bridge. So then I said, "Okay, let's go prove it." So I have a a friend. of mine. He's owns a big shipping. company. I said, "Take two iPhones, put. them on a stand, and just go through the. Panama Canal." You know, the Panama. Canal, they sort of drag ships through. like this. And I said, "Just go video. both ways." No, just video both ways. 70% of every. letter is Chinese. Then I'm talking like. the sides of containers ships, the.

stores, like I'm not talking like. signage, just just random signage like. you're riding on a road. It's all. Chinese. And then I do the research and I call. him back and I say the magic words. between me and him. I have your path, which is I've done it. I've done the. legal work. I've done everything. Right. So when you start talking about it, you. have a foundation. It's not just you. talking. So people think he's just. talking. He's never just talking. Yeah. He has people behind him who bring him.

his. foundational structural outcome. And. then what does he do? He went and played. golf that afternoon. He called me at. 7:00 in the morning. He said, "What do. you got?" We talked from 7:00 to 8. He. went and played golf, right? And that. afternoon, there's the American flag in. the middle of the Panama Canal in some, you know, truth he puts out, right? And. that's the fun part, right? So, you work. for the the most intuitive guy. Yeah. Unbelievably smart, unbelievably. thoughtful, who knows what he's doing. So, it's so fun for me. Howard, let's.

just go back one second. So, you have. this deep relationship with him. You. guys are friends. Scott Besson told us the story that. about 18 months ago though he saw all. this data about what was happening under. Biden and he was just so concerned that. these deficits and debts were getting so. out of control he went to the president. and said how can I help can I help. that's a story um but was there a moment. for you that was like rooted in. something other than friendship like was. there something on the ground where you.

said hold on a second this is a train. wreck and we need to do this you were. the finance chair for the campaign Well, no, I wasn't the fighting chair. I was. the transition chair. Transition. Okay. So, I ran transition, which we'll talk. about, but so let's go through. So, I'm. friends with him, right? But I'm. building my business. Young guy building. my business. And then 911 happens. Yeah. Okay. So, I'm friends with the guy. I'm. just friends with the guy. But then 911. happens. Kind, sweet, calls me all the.

time. Just good human being. Nice, warm, caring, good human being. Right. But. then I'm knocked out. So what do I do. next? I try to rebuild my company, take. care of the families of 911. You know, I. had I lost 658 people who work for me. And uh and we had a policy. We want to. work with people that we like. So when. we had an opening, we didn't use head. hunters. We would say to everybody at. the firm, does anybody know anybody. who'd do this job? No. And so, you know,

young lady works for me says, you know, my best friend is an HR person. They. have to have capacity. Yeah. But once. they have capacity, imagine we hire that. person. Yeah. Now what happens is it's. it's not one big happy family. Yeah. But. people really really care about the. company and that's our company that's on. the top five floors of the World Trade. Center on 911 when the plane hits it. Kills everybody at the office. My. brother Gary, he dies at 36. My best. friend Doug, he dies at 39. Uh, I had.

just turned 40 that summer. I had a. party. 65 couples. It's my my 40th. birthday. 40th birthday. Yeah. Right. 27. people at my party get killed. Jesus. My. friends. These are my friends. So, I'm. driven to take care of the families of. the people who who died. And I commit. 25% of all of our profits. Uh, but the. company's destroyed. So, we go from. making a million a day. I was a rich. guy, right? What's the definition of a. rich guy? No personal debt, no corporate.

debt. Ken Fitzgerald, no debt. So, how. do you survive 911? If you don't owe. anybody any money, the only money you're. losing is is your money. Is your money. So, we survive and we take care of our. friends families and then we build the. company back up. So, you could see like. I'm uh I'm a special guest on the. Celebrity Apprentice, the first season. of Celebrity Apprentice. Piers Morgan. wins. Did he fire you? No, no, I wasn't.

a contestant. I'm a little beyond being. a contestant. I was a special guest. I'd. come in like if you see during the. auction, I'm standing next to him at the. auction, you know, and I'm helping him. like I'm just his friend sort of as an. extra all along the way, you know, every. once you kept the friendship going as. you're rebuilding. We're friends all the. way, but I'm rebuilding my company. Yeah. And then so I'm not interested in. politics. Okay. I don't do anything in. politics because I'm I got my head down. Right. We had the financial crisis. Cander children's great in the financial. crisis. Had you ever donated to.

candidates at all or not? Yeah. New York. candidates. Okay. Right. New York C. So, think about it. You're in New York. You. try to pick. uh social liberals, fiscal. conservatives, right? If that even. exists anymore. Right. But they if. you're in New York, you have to pick and. look, I grew up in New York, so I'm. socially liberal. What else could I. possibly be? Yeah. So, you know, so. early when Chuck Schumer was young. before he became what the president now. calls a Palestinian, you know, you know,

he you know, I raised him, you know, I I. raised him money and gave him money. Donald Trump gave him money. Same. I I. did too. Yeah. I mean, because he was he. was uh that's what he said he was. He. was social liberal, fiscal conservative. and and uh so I you know, we'd all give. to those kind of candidates, but mostly. giving to get along, right? and to be. able to, you know, ask him a question if. you needed to ask him a question, but. there was really no, I had no drive, right, in that like I said the first. four nights I slept in Washington in the.

last 20 years when when Donald Trump was. elected, I had never slept here. I'd. come down, visit a little, go home, go. home. What am I staying here for? So he. calls me at the end of October 23. Okay. So he's already had his first term. You. didn't you didn't support or get No, I. was so I gave him money and I gave. Hillary money. You gave Hillary money in. the first term? Yeah, because Hillary. was incredibly helpful to me post 911. Remember, she was a senator, right? And.

New York needed help, right? And Hillary. was incredibly helpful and I was driving. the team to help New York rebuild. because I had relationships with a whole. bunch of congressmen and they were going. to do nice things. Like Bill Young ran. House Appropriations, right? Bill Young. was my friend, right, through a whole. variety of things that had to do with. um I used to go to Bethesda Naval. Hospital and I used to walk around and I.

would bring music there for the men who. got hurt from the military who were in. Bethesda Naval Hospital. And uh we would. walk around, I go with my wife and then. I would engage the young man with music. I give him music and ask him what CDs he. wanted. this is when CDs were there and. I'd bring up a Walkman and my wife would. pull the family outside and uh she'd pay. a year of their mortgage and all their. expenses because what people don't. realize is your son loses his leg, right? Dad and mom come flying in and.

they're going to stay by his bedside. What job do these people have that. allows them to be at their son's world? And their world is falling apart cuz. their son lost his leg. So the world is. falling apart, but at home their world. is falling apart. Falling apart. And so. my my wife uh would just just try to. figure out how much money was and just. give them a check. Yeah. And no no form, no nothing. Just give him the money. Yeah. And and help them. So I would bump.

into Billy Young and his wife who were. they were just they ran then defense. appropriations and they were there just. being good human beings. And so we. became friends. And he said to me once, he said, 'Is there anything I could ever. do to help you? I'm like, look, you run, you're like a congressman from Florida. who does defense appropriations. And I'm. like a Jewish guy from New York who's in. finance. If there ever were two skews. that we're never going to meet, this is. two ships going like, right, we got. nothing. So I said to him, look, we're. just going to be friends, right? We're.

never going to do anything. And then he. runs House Appropriations. And so when. New York needs money to rebuild after. 911, they go see Bill Young to try to. get a bill passed. And he said, "How can. you come see me without Howard?" Yeah. You know, this is post 911. So I'm. running New York. And Hillary does a. really nice job. Okay. For New York. Yeah. And I told I told uh DJT, I call. him DJT because I've known him for. always. I said I told. him that I can't forget. Yeah. I'm just.

not the person who's gonna forget. Of. course, I gave him money, right? But I. give it and and by the way, he still. tortures me for it. So like and you know. what the best part is? A good friend. does. Yes. Right. You know what the. point is? See, other people would would. you know sort of curl back. Yeah. Right. So here right after he gets elected, okay, here's a story for you. So right. after he gets elected, he has a dinner. in New York, right? So he invites me to. the dinner in New York cuz I'm his. friend. And then while he's giving his. talk to his first dinner in New York, he.

goes, "Wait, wait. Hillary's supporter. and he points at me, right?" So I stand. up, I go, "Hey everyone." And I sit. down. You know, he's just sassing me, okay? Cuz I gave him tons of dough. He. knows I love him and it's fine. Okay. So. we're 2023. So we're. 2023 and he calls me and he says, "Will. you help me?" Yeah. And I had not thought politics. Now, I I. gave him money in 2020 re-election.

Yeah. Probably gave him 10 million. bucks. I raised him 15 million bucks. So, I I was, you know, once I I'm on a. side the whole way through. I'm raising. him money in 17, 18, 19, 20. While he's. president, I'm totally on his side. Yeah. And I'm But I'm just his friend. I'm not engaged. Yeah. Okay. Because I'm. still rebuilding my life. Yeah. Okay. And then 2023 calls me, says, "Will you. help. me?" And I actually thought about it. like, and that was the first time I.

really thought politics. And then I. said, "Yes." And I gave him 10 million bucks. right then and there. And then I started. talking to him. I started going on the. campaign trail. I started doing. research. I started doing knowledge. I. wanted I talked to him about everything. I talked to him all the time about. everything. Did you love it? Cuz our our. friend Sachs, we were talking at dinner. last night. He seems to love it. Like. there's nothing not to love. As Donald. Trump says, this is a thousand Super.

Bowls, right? For him and for me, it's. only a hundred Super Bowls. I mean, if if you're dedicated to. America and you're willing to wear. America's clothing and to stop worrying. about yourself and only care about. America. Yeah. and have no objective. post. Yeah, the president hates when. these people have like they raise money. post from people they've met in here. So, I'm never going to work again. Okay, I'm never going to work. This is all I. care about. I'm just going to help. America. So, he asked me to help him and.

I start thinking about it. I start. studying everything and I read. everything and I read everything about. the White House and I read everything. about everything I can possibly read. because I'm I'm just that way. And uh. and then I start helping him. Yeah. Right. And I went to learn how he picked. the judges, right, and the Supreme Court. and why it didn't. And and uh I'm just. very detailed. And so I started studying. what transition is, right? Right. And I. started studying it and I started.

studying tariffs cuz he wanted to talk. about tariffs. And he's always thought. the trade deficit was wrong and. basically a ripoff of America. And I. started studying everything about it. Yeah. And so he and I would talk about. it and we knew everything about it. And. then he picked me to run Transition. Okay. So, we're going to talk about. terrorists in a sec, but so double click. into Transition. What did you find that. was so interesting? Like what's I'll. give you an example. So, there's a book. called The Gatekeepers that was written. that people gave me, "Oh, you should. read this book." And it's about chiefs.

of staff. Okay. And basically, there's. another way to call it. It's called The. Jerks, right? Because what they do, imagine you're the gatekeeper. Yeah. You're the gatekeeper of what? Yeah. of. the man who was elected president of the. United States of America that he needs. the gates kept from him. And if you. listen to Nixon tapes, you hear him. scheming to try to learn anything. because what happens is the chief of. staff, everybody reports to the chief of. staff and the chief of staff reports to. you. So you can't get on Air Force One.

without asking the chief of staff. You. can't get a document unless you have the. chief of staff. No one can come see you. unless you have the chief of staff. And. if they take your phone away, you know. what you are? You're imprisoned. And. that's the gatekeepers. So I said to. Donald Trump, I said, "Look, you fired. Ryance Prieous who was your chief of. staff. Then you fired John Kelly as the. chief of staff. Then you fired Mick. Mulaney as chief of staff. Then you. would have fired Meadows, but you didn't. get a chance cuz you cuz the the the the. next election. So I said, "Why don't you. fire the job?

What you need is a chief of staff who's. actually your chief of staff, not who's. the gatekeeper." Right. Right. And so. that was an example of how I changed it. And so Susie Wilds is perfect for Donald. Trump. You know why? She lets him be. him. John Kelly took away his phone, right? So he couldn't communicate with. anybody. Whereas Susie embraces who he. is, helped him get elected, ran a great.

campaign. She's perfect for him in this. role. And so that's what I brought. So I. brought like an an understanding of him, right? And an understanding of the role, right? Right. And that's why I convinced. your friend David Sax. Every time he. said, "I can't do it." Yeah. I would. call him and say, "It's an emergency. It's emergency. I need to see." You'd. fly and go, "What is it?" I go, "You. need to join the administration." He. goes, "That's what the emergency was." I. go, "Of course." And was And Howard, was. that when you conceived originally Doge.

in that initial? Was that during the. transition? All right. So Doge, yeah, we. should talk about Doge and tariffs. Okay, so Doge comes it's it's. October of. uh before the election. Okay. Early. October. October 2024. October 2024. Yeah. Like the beginning Yeah. of. October 2024. And I called the president. and I said, "I need uh I need to spend. an hour with you because I have my big. ideas." Yeah. Right. So he gives me he.

says, "Look, I'm not sure what to do. October 7th, right? Why Why don't we. figure out what I should be doing. October 7th? So, we decided we're going. to go out to the Oell, which is uh uh a. super religious uh hedic Jewish um. Messiah. You know, the the people who. wear black hats think he's the Messiah. And they have a crypt for him where you. write a note and you put a note in. All. right. And. so we agreed we'd go out to that uh to. that grave site and we'd probably win.

60,000 of those kind of voters, which is. pretty cool for a day. And then we drove. there and back together, the two of us. So I had an hour and a half just he and. me talking. And I said, I want to. balance the budget in the United States. of America. And I this is the way we're. going to do it. We no one's ever checked. the just under four trillion dollars of. entitlements. Every politician thinks. what you have to do is you have to take. the retirement age from 65 and make it a. 70, right? And you have to do this and.

this and this and this because they. never think about the money. Totally. But people like us totally would say. what's the first thing you do? What's. the value I'm getting for my money? Totally right. And what you find is if. nobody ever like as in ever like I could. say the word ever 12. times has looked at where the money. goes. Totally. And so there's not even a. process to get it back when you send it. to the wrong person. You just send. another one out. Yeah. Like think about.

it. You just Well, I sent it. accidentally or accidentally. Notice how. it's accidental. It's always. accidentally sent to the wrong person. Really? You wouldn't ever say the 5.9. million people who work for the. government there could be some crooks in. there, right? No, no, no. It's all. accidental. What a load of nonsense this. is. There's some percentage of this. But. you would say, yeah, and you would say, no, just zero base it and let's figure. out where it's got to be 25%. Yeah, we'd. all say if it's never been checked, how. could it not be 25%. How could it not. be? And the answer is that's a trillion.

dollars a year, right? Okay. So I said I. think we're going to cut a trillion. dollars a year in expense and then I. think we can through tariffs and other. means we're going to get revenues have a. trillion dollars incremental revenue. incremental revenue and we're going to. balance the budget but all but sorry let. me just ask one question how do the tax. cut to the extension of the tax cuts. there they're there is zero basis that. means where I was yesterday and where I. am tomorrow like oh it's a tax cut no. it's not it's the exact same thing as. yesterday as today to say continuing. yesterday tomorrow is like silly So, let.

me ask you let me ask you on tariffs. Having studied it yourself. When there's higher tariffs, people. purchase less, things cost more. No, we'll talk about tariffs. Let's let's. just finish. Let's just finish uh Doge. So, I'm in the car with him, right? And. I said, "We're going to balance the. budget." And I said, "I have one favor. to ask of you. If we can balance the. budget for you, will you agree to wave. all income tax? I see for every person. who makes less than $150,000 a year for.

the United States of America, which by. the way is about 85% of America. Right. Right. And the reason you want to work. for Donald Trump is he looks at me, he. goes, "Sure." You realize the president of. United States said, "If you balance the. budget, sure." And he's not lying. He's. not kidding. He's like, "Yeah, that. seems that seems like a great idea.". Right. Right. And so, and then I tell. him, "Okay, I'm going to go recruit Elon. because Elon's allin." Yeah. Right. He's.

already said he's all in. He's already. said he's going to Pennsylvania. Yes. Right. So, I call Elon and I don't know. Elon. I don't know. But he's perfect for this. So, I use my superpower, which is I call. everybody else I know who knows him, and. they arrange and I'm texting with him, and he agrees to meet me on October. 14th. So, I fly down to Brownsville, Texas. Uh he's going to catch the rocket. on October 14th. Right. So, that's what. he invites me down for the rocket catch. That's right. Having nothing, he's not.

inviting me for the rocket catch. He's. just inviting me down that that's a good. day for me to meet him. So, I fly down. I see the rocket catch, which is. awesome. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. And then I expect to. meet him. By the way, very pivotal day. in the in the campaign. If you remember, Biden sort of didn't pay as much. attention to it. Trump was pretty. engaged. Elon was supportive of Trump. So, when he actually caught the rocket, the media was almost like frozen waiting. for it to fail and it didn't fail and it. worked and it was just incredible. I was. waiting for Elon. Okay. So, I flew down. to see Elon and uh with with my uh with.

my son and uh so we watched the rocket, right? And then they say, "Okay, he's. gonna go hang out with his engineers and. party with them." Seems reasonable. It's. like an hour, hour and a half. And then. he just goes dark. You're still waiting. I'm just sitting. there waiting. And then they take me and. I go to like a the equivalent of a. Margaritavville, you know, where you. have like a a basket and you can get. quesadillas and get and you get a Diet. Coke in a in a in a red sort of plastic.

thing that's about this tall. It's like. got 4,000 ounces of Diet Coke in it that. comes with this big. But now to his. credit, he sends me all the executives. from SpaceX are hanging with me, but. he's dark. And what happened is he took. a nap. He was up all night doing the. engineering and he went to sleep. So. then when he finally wakes up, so I'm. just sitting there like, you know, doing. the like I don't know him really. So I'm. just doing the thumb twiddle. I'm going, okay, you know, this guy's got a couple. I'm hoping he sees me, right? So then he.

wakes up. He says, "Come to my. house, right? I'll see you in my house.". So, his house is 1,200 feet. It's got. the furniture in it that I had when I. graduated from college. Yeah. Right. Okay. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. It's 1,200 feet and it's got the. furniture, plastic chairs, and Okay. So, I say, um, we're going to balance the budget. I. need to cut a trillion. He's like, I'm. in. He says, "I think we should cut 80%. of the federal government because the.

essential employees, if the government. shut down, essential employees are. 450,000." Yeah. Okay. And there's 5.9. million people who work for the. government. How can 450,000 be essential. and there's 5.9 million? So he says, "Like Twitter, I think we should cut. 80%." Yeah. And I say, "I know how to. cut 50." And he says, "I want to cut. 80." I said, "I know how to do 50." He. goes, "Are you with me or against me?" I. go, "I know how to legally do it. What. do you have?" And my son says it was.

like two alpha dogs just like fighting. with each other for the first half hour. And then and then um so then X comes in, right? And then he's got to walk X he's. got to walk his son X out. So he walks. his son X out. And I'm thinking maybe. the meeting's over, right? Because we've. been together a half hour, 40 minutes, and maybe it's over because he got up. and he walked out. He comes back and he. sits down. He goes, "Har, this meeting. is right." That's what he says. this. meeting and we sit down and we map out. the plan. I tell them what a gratus. vendor is. Yeah. Because I designed cuz.

I was not going to go into the. government. I was doing transition. What. is a gratus vendor? A gratus vendor is. uh is a an approved vendor for the. United States of America that gives. product to the government. Doesn't sell. it. Okay. So therefore I don't have to. go through the whole process of becoming. a proper vendor because you're giving it. to us. And then if you give it to. article. two, which is the president's stuff, then the president can accept. it, right? Because it's give. Sorry, how.

what's an example of this? Like just to. make I write some software. You write. some software. I write some software for. the commerce department to do a better. job of XYZ. Mhm. You just give it to me. and then I do QA on it and I can take. it. If you sell it to me for $1, we go. into government hell, right? The whole. rigomearole, right? But if you give it. to me, right? And then I set up, you. know, so I said, I'm calling it. Doge and I registered the name Doge. You. said that, of course. And were you.

familiar with Dogecoin and Elon? It's. Elon. So what happens is in. in the Defense Production Act in World. War II, yes. In order to get all the. great executives Yes. of America to help. with production. They named everything. after jazz singers or the things that of. the people who were on the committee. that it would make them laugh and smile. Okay. Right. So I picked Doge so he. would laugh and he said get the f out of.

here. Like when I said we're going to. name it Doge, the Department of. Government Efficiency, which I didn't. think of. It was on the internet sort of. floating around in June. Yes. Right. But. I literally registered it, right? as the. department of government efficiency like. make it a real thing as a gratus vendor. and I said this is how I've done it for. me. Yes. So that I can run Caner. Fitzgerald, you can run SpaceX, right? You you're not you don't have to sign. the conflict form and all this stuff. because you're not working for the. government. You're just giving stuff to.

the government. You are literally giving. of yourself, right? But you're not. looking for anything. You're not taking. any money. You're not owning anything. You're not doing anything. You're not on. that side of the wall. You're on this. side, you're outside. Yeah. Right. And. so we we had fun. We talked for two. hours. And then on my Twitter feed, I. took a picture of me and Elon outside. and I put up, "Welcome to Doge. We are. going to rip the waste out of our $6.5.

trillion. uh government and balance the budget. We. must elect Donald J. Trump president.". Yeah. Right. and and I posted that with. my I probably at the time had 25,000. viewers and I got 45 million views. Wow. Right. So it was me and Eli. Yeah. And. that was the beginning of Doge. Yeah. Right. Then I ran transition which is so. for the. transition we had I had a room in. Maraga. Yeah. Okay. Big conference table. in the middle. Four 85in screens on one.

side and mirror four 85in screens on the. other side so that you and I could talk. to each other. So the president sat. across from me. Yeah. Elon sat Oh, and. then I'll tell you one other story about. Elon. So he wins the election. President. wins the election. He accepts it like. Wednesday at 2:00 in the morning, right? Elon's not on stage. If you see, I'm on. stage. Elon's way in the back of the. room. There's a thousand people in the. room. 2,000 people. He's way in the. back. He he goes home. Thursday. afternoon, I call. I'm doing a dry run. of the launch of my transition, right?

And the president is superstitious. He's. never had one conversation with me about. transition. He totally trusts me. He. wins the election. Now he's got a look, you know, I said on Jess, he hasn't. talked to you ahead of time about who he. about one job about one thing. So until. the election because he's superstitious. like don't waste your time. Don't jinx. it, right? Just go win. You got to go. win. So what happens is he.

So I'm I'm doing a dry run. So, I call. Elon and I said, 'Where are you?' He. goes, 'What do you mean? I'm in Austin, Texas or whatever. I go, what are you. doing? I mean, what is the point of you. spending three weeks living in. Pennsylvania helping the guy get elected. if you're not going to help him pick the. cabinet? Like, come on. Right. Because. the way President Trump works, he makes. decisions by orchestra. He likes lots of views and opinions. He.

likes them. And anybody who says, "Oh, the last person who sees him gets them.". That's because they don't know him at. all. Right. Right. The answer is it's an. orchestra. Right. And I would say, "Okay, I'm the first violin." You know, at the time I would say I was, you know, I would describe myself as second. violin. Yeah. Right. So this is an. orchestra. So the president's not going. to make a decision with me and him. alone. Yeah. No. No. He's gonna have So. he So it went like this. president. sitting across from me right at the. conference table. Elon to his left,

Suzie to his right, right? JD to my. left, Linda McMahon who was my co-chair, right? But she wrote all those EOS that. he did. That was she was responsible for. and I was responsible for personnel but. she was with me for personnel. So she's. sitting to my right, JD sitting to my. left, Don Jr. right, Steven Miller, any. and and he there was always 12 people in. the room. They were never like me and. him hushed in the corner doing this and. that. Never. And what we would do is I.

would put eight candidates on one. screen. Right. Right. And then big. candidate on each screen. Most beautiful. AI picture of you've ever seen. Right. And people would walk in and go, "Where'd you get that photo?" I'm like, "What do you think I did? I took three. of your photos." I've heard secondhand. stories of this room during the. transition that there you walk in and. everyone's photo is up on the screen. Everybody's on the room. And so that's a. candidate for a role. And then you guys. would debate it. And so what happened. was a big picture of the person. Yeah, they're they're key highlights of the. resume, not boring, their education, right? And then you would click a button.

and you'd see them speaking 20 seconds. at a time, four of them, right? So, it's. about 80 seconds and you're not speaking. about the job. Just like how do you. present? Totally. And what you can see. is his whole cabinet can talk. Totally. All of them. Totally. because he picked. them knowing I need you to be able to. talk to be able to present our ideas and. our concepts out there and that's key to. him and what I would the way I would. joke to people is say how do you do it I. go watch pitch so you throw him a.

curveball he wouldn't swing you throw. him fast ball he wouldn't swing you. throw him a slider he hits the ball hits. it to my glove I go here you go you go. well how do you know that I go because I. know the guy for 33 years I know what he. wants and he loved the process and you. know what happened you saw what happened. right first A eight candidates, 12 jobs, national security. Okay. He says, "What. do you want?" I go, "Eight to four." I. put up eight candidates. I recruited. everybody. I had 150 of the best. Republicans in the United States of.

America. They each gave me five people. who then gave me 10 people. I had. thousands of people to pick from. The. whole government was set up to pick. from. And then we picked candidates. I. had eight for every job. Yeah. Eight. Eight. Eight. Eight. 8 to four. That's. Friday. Sunday comes in 4 to 2 in the. morning. I fly everybody in for the two. I prep them. We go in and meet them. Two. to one. Final interview. Give him the. job. Wow. Bang. Bang. Bang. Bang. Bang.

Monday. T Monday. We're done with. national security. Okay. Now we're. rolling on. And it just pounds out. Why? Because he had every candidate. Everybody knew it. Everybody was. prepped. Everybody was aware. Everybody. was done. You know, that's why I had to. beat the heck out of David Saxs because. I needed David Sachs to be in the. government. I recruited David. I pounded. on David. You can ask David, right? I. beat him and beat him and beat him until. he finally said, "Okay, I'm going to do. it." Right. And I did that for. everybody. Yeah. Right. And I made sure.

he had the greatest choices. And then. every once in a while, he would call me. at night and say, "Throw this guy in. Throw this guy in. Throw this guy in.". We did a vet on everybody. But I didn't. take out anything negative. I am not a. negative person. You can tell. I'm. positive. So why would I discuss. anything negative about any candidate. until I get picked? There was no game. theory. A lot of people speculated there. was game theory that we'll put a mix of. people that will assume some won't make. it out of committee and then we'll end. up with the ones that we do want.

Everyone was the number one choice. Only. one. Only one. Only one. And that was. Matt. Matt. Yeah. What happened what. happened with Matt Howard? How did that. process? He he was tortured by his. attorney general in the first term and. we were not going to have that ever. again. Right. So we needed strong. backbone, strong capacity of which Matt. Gates has it. Yeah. And I know Matt. Gates and he has it. Right. But we did. not know what that vet was going to say. from that report from Congress. So here.

was the idea. We fight for him and we. fight for him to get through and then we. read the report. The report's not bad. Remember, the president's been tortured. by people blaming him for stuff that. never happened. Oh, 30 years ago, he. raped this woman in the in the dressing. room of Bloomingdales. I mean, what a. load of crap, right? It's just not true. None of it's true. It's ridiculous. So, he he comes at this saying, I know. you're going to get tortured with. ridiculous, right? So, then he says, if. it's if it's ridiculous, then we support.

Matt, and if it's not, we have Pam right. here, right now. So that was lined up so. that everybody knows it's right here. right now. And it's 3D chess. So we read. it. Pam. Okay. It's like Pam in a hundth. of a second, right? And Pam is a rockar. And you could argue. that you would say, "Well, why didn't. you pick her first?" You know what? He's. the president. He plays 3D chess. He did. it his way. And you know what? But there. was no candidate up there. Yeah. Who.

wasn't right. Yeah. Right. And we could. talk about all the detail and how we. thought about it, what it went. But it. was so thoughtful, so intuitive, and so. right. And what does it produce? The. greatest cabinet ever. The most capable, thoughtful, best able to communicate. I. mean, it's so fun to be in a room with. these people because these are. worldclass people, the best ever in. government. We shouldn't betray. confidence, but I mean, we were in a. room earlier this week with several of.

them, and everyone had a moment to. speak. It was unbelievable. I mean, look, every. single one of them you're like could. have been a leader of the country. Like, they're all great. That's the point. He. picked He picked greatness. Now, I was. the recruiter. So, I was a recruiter and. chief, but I can understand why now, by. the way. Well, but think about it. If. you take someone like me, Yeah. and you. say, "Just be a head hunter." Yeah. I. swear to you, I can be the greatest head. hunter ever to live. Because think about. it. What's the odds of saying, "Okay, Howard, your whole job is just be a head.

hunter. Find the best guys. I promise. you I'll be really good. Okay. Can we go. back to Doge? So you talked about the. Gatus vendors. Maybe there's other stuff. that you can do with executive action. the president can do with Doge, etc. Can. we talk about congressional budgets? How. how do we actually balance a budget. without bringing Congress along? And is. the plan to bring Congress along? I've. asked this of Bessant. I've asked this. several times since we've been here. And. it's the thing that gives me the most. heartache and the most headache is I. worry about whether this actually gets.

there given congressional interests. I. think. Congress works with something called. scoring. Yeah. Right. That that if it. comes from their pen, it counts. If it. doesn't come from their pen, it doesn't. count. But the fact is money always. counts. It just doesn't count for their. scoring. But their scoring is only part. of the game, right? The outcome of the.

game is what matters to me, Elon, our. cabinet, and Donald Trump. Okay? The. outcome of the game. And I'm telling. you, the outcome of the game by me and. Elon. Now, a funny part of it is so I. invite Elon to Madison Square Garden. He. doesn't want to leave Pennsylvania, right? Because he, you know, Elon, he's. committed to Pennsylvania. Yeah. So I. convince him he's got to come and we. have a plan. I'm going to say to him, so. I everyone else gets introduced by the. voice of God. I'm the only one who.

introduces Elon. So Elon comes on stage. with me. There's the two of us on stage. in Madison Square Garden. The only time. the two of us are on stage. I'm the. fourth speaker. He's the third from the. end. JD is second from the end. And. Donald Trump is last. Okay. So, he's. supposed to say when I I say to him, "How much are you going to cut?" The. deal was he's going to cut $1 trillion. And then he's supposed to say, "And how. much are you going to earn?" And I'm. supposed to say, "1 $1 trillion." And.

then we're supposed to say, "Together, we're going to balance budget United. States of America." That's that's the. little sort of thing. So, I ask Elon, "How much you going to cut?". And he because he said he said two. trillion. Well, because we're in front. of 22,000 people and the place is. erupting. He says two trillion and then. I'm sitting there. going and I'm like I think I said. allighty then or something like that you. know like what was I supposed to say you. know so later when he walks back to a. trillion no you were you were caught off.

guard but I mean it's quite how much you. going to earn. No cuz he said two. trillion I got it all don't worry like. like I said all righty then and that was. that. So then I walked off stage and you. know he said two trillion so like what. am I going to say? But the answer was. always right that 25% of the waste for. an abuse is a trillion dollars, right? And he's got to cut and find the waste. for an abuse of a trillion dollars. Okay. Okay. And that my job is to raise. $1 trillion of exogenous new revenues,

new revenue for the government. And we. Right. I'm telling you, I've been here. now two months. Yeah. Right. I am more. confident it's going to happen and more. excited. Tell us how it happened. Well, hold on a second. So Howard, let's let's. finish this and then we'll move to. tariffs and revenue generation. So. there's a lot of domestic terrorism. Is. that the response to try to slow down. the expense side of the house? Is it is. it basically to put fear into people. that are trying to find this waste and. fraud? Is that is that what that is? The.

burning of the dealerships. The If. you're I I describe it to people this. way. Let's say Social Security didn't. send out their checks. this month. My mother-in-law, who's. 94, she wouldn't call and complain. Mhm. She just wouldn't. She'd think something. got messed up and she'll get it next. month. Yeah. Mhm. A. fraudster. always makes the loudest noise. screaming, yelling, and complaining. And.

if all the guys who did PayPal, like. Elon knows this by heart, right? Anybody. who's been in the payment system and the. process system knows the easiest way to. find the fraudster is to stop payments. and listen. Yeah. Cuz whoever screams is. the one stealing. Yeah. Cuz my. mother-in-law is not calling. I mean, come on. Your mother, 80 year olds, 90. year olds, they trust the government. They trust Okay, maybe it got screwed. up. Big deal. They're not going to call. and scream at someone. But someone who's. stealing always does. So what happens is.

we need to get to so the people who are. getting that free money, stealing the. money, inappropriately getting the. money, have an inside person who's. routing the money. They are going to. yell and scream. But real America. is going to be rewarded because here's. the key benefit of the doubt. Not one. penny should stop going to we're the. richest country on earth. Yeah. Here's. the way I say it. I said, "We have we. have a $6.5 trillion budget. We have. $4.5 trillion of revenues." Yeah. Okay.

We lose $2 trillion a year. We have a. $29 trillion GDP, right? Which people don't understand and. which I'll explain a little bit. And we. have 36 trillion in debt. Yeah. What. number didn't I say to a business. person? What's our balance sheet worth? Right. Right. I say 500 trillion. Right. The president says a quadrillion. But at. 500 trillion or. quadrillion, 36 trillion, we're rich. We. don't have to take one penny from. someone who deserves social security.

Not one penny for someone who deserves. Medicaid, Medicare. What we have to do. is stop sending money to someone who's. not hurt, who's on disability for 50. years. It's ridiculous. And they have. another job. And do we have to monetize. our assets? We We need to be smart. That's all we. need to be. And I'm going to tell you. things that are just smart. They're not, oh my god, there's the most brilliant. thing ever. This is just smart. There. are so many smart things we can do. Like, you know, we'll talk about the.

post office, right? Think about this. The post office has 625,000 people who. work there and they go to your house. every day. You know what the census. does? The census hires 625,000 people, trains them, teaches them, has. interviews 2 million people, trains and. teaches them, hires cars. How about. this? You're genius. That's pretty. smart, Howard. Right. Okay. Like. obvious, right? But here's what it is. I'll tell you what I'm going to I'm. really good at pattern recognition. Okay. Here's one like tell me 625 of one. and I can point out 625 of another. This.

is the genius I bring to the government. Seriously, this is this is core fun. By. the way, you're responsible for all the. core data collection as well, aren't. you? Isn't commerce responsible for. generating a lot of the GDP for economic. Oh, that's I get to talk about GDP and. how I'm going to how I'm going to clean. up the nonsense is in GDP. You know, I. can explain that if you make a tank and. someone buys a tank, that is GDP. Yeah. But a thousand people thinking about. buying a tank, right, who take your tax. money and I give it to them and they go, I wonder should we buy a tank or not? That's not GDP, right? You're saying. government spending should not be.

counted in GDP. No, government spending. to buy a tank, right, should be, right? Government spending that's. nonproductive. Non-productive. This is so important. I. don't think I don't think a lot of. people realize this. How how much of GDP. is nonproductive government spending? How about we do one thing? Yeah. G DP D means domestic. P is prod. domestic production. It's not. consumption. Right. If I go out and buy. a Toyota, right? Right. That's not GDP.

Right. If I buy a Chevy that's made in. America, that's a D. Right. So people. think it's like a consumption model, right? That's not it. And you could. check another one is is there's gross. domestic income, right? That's also. good. So by the way, they're about they. grow about the same rate. It's it's kind. of fun. So the key for me is to take out. the part that if I cut. nonproductive a million government.

employees who are nonproductive, meaning. they don't make tanks. Right. Right. If. I take that out, it's going to look like. our GDP declined. But you'd say, "But. what really happened?" No. Our expenses. went down. This is so important, by the. way, because people talk about a. recession, and a lot of people create a. lot of red lights and alarm bells about. we're going to go into a recession if we. cut all this spending. But the followon. effect of cutting nonproductive spending. is that the workforce and those dollars. flow into more productive parts of the.

economy where we make more things, we. create more jobs, we create higher. wages. And that's the theory that you. guys are trying to execute against. I. don't think a lot of people in the. general public fully understand that is. so important to kind of explain and get. across here. Okay. If we put three. people behind. us and they sat behind us and they did. nothing and each of us gave them. $125,000 just like this. Here you go. And they just sat there, right? What is. that, right? That's not GDP. That's.

actually me taking my money and giving. it to them. We produced nothing. We've. no purpose of the earth. It was my. money. The income, however, I earned my. income was mine and I just gave it to. them. They didn't really earn income. It's really a transfer pricing model. that is currently considered in GDP and. it's nonsense. So if I stopped paying. them, okay, right? What would I do? The. first thing you'd say is, well then why. am I paying so much tax? Bang. Okay. So.

now we're in the concept of where. Howard, do you have an intuition on what. the actual GDP number is? I'm sure you. if you take out non-productive spending. Yeah. But I I'm not going to talk about. it until we release it because that's. the proper way to do stuff. Got it. Right. But and I'm going to break that. out. I think it's 25% and I'm going to. break it out and I'm going to break it. out for the last 20 years and what. you're going to see 15% every time the. quarter just before an election. All the. government spending happens right then. and there. And all of a sudden you have.

this jump in GDP, right? Total lie, right? Total lie. They basically they. just take all this money and they jack. it into the quarter so that we have that. and you'll see it. It goes Whoop. And. then they can what do you think the. first quarter is? Whammo or the second. quarter is whammo. Why? Because you. pre-spent it. Right. Right. Right. And. then you have this whole and it's it's. gross. Yeah. Okay. That's the only way. to us. You're like really? But it's so. manipulated. Let me ask and the answer.

is I mean and to your point the the the. game that's being played is we're going. to take taxpayer dollars that people. don't understand once you give it to the. government. We're going to create these. waves of fake growth that try to tip. elections so that then the grift and the. waste and all the fraud can then. continue for as many years until the jig. gets replayed over and over again. And. it seems like the buck is stopping with. you guys because you've exposed it. It's. going to and that's the idea. The idea. is to.

take a trillion of waste, fraud, and. abuse out. Yeah. and then make a. trillion from having other people um. resetting global trade and once you. understand global trade and how it makes. sense and where it came from. Yeah. Can. you explain that to us? Sorry. Before. before we get there, I want to ask one. last question on on on the cuts. Can we. speak in um do we need to speak in a. more empathetic way because that. trillion dollars of spending flows into.

someone's pocket. some percentage of. that pays people a salary and they live. on that income. And I think a lot of the. Okay, I think this is important for you. to highlight because a lot of people are. reacting to Elon and Doge and the budget. cuts saying you're destroying jobs. You're taking money away from people. that need their jobs. Why are you why. rich people are taking away? I'm going. to give you a sad example. And so like. help us understand are people going to. lose their jobs? I'm going to give you a. sad example. We all remember during the. co there was the PPP money. Yeah.

Remember that? Yeah. Totally. So it was. proven that 200 billion of the 1.2. trillion was going to Chinese. fraud gangs. What? Why that proven? You. just make up a company, right? You know, Joe's Delhi. Yeah. You make it up. Joe's. Deli, right? Say you're in trouble. File. and they sent you money. Yeah. So why. wouldn't Chinese gangs do that? Come on. So we show not we but people showed the.

government those people that money and. instead of stopping they said yeah but. we can't stop because there are real. people who need the money. And so what. happens is because there's no no one's. ever been. fired ever for sending money to the. wrong. place. People send it on purpose. I'm. not saying everybody sends it on. purpose. I'm saying there are some. people who send it on purpose. some. people who are complete morons and and. an enormous number of people who work. for the government who are awesome. I.

mean, amazing people, right? But what. percentage? Okay, if there's 5.9 million. people who work for the government, you're like, "Wow, that's like so many. and we're paying them all. And how many. do you really need?" I mean, if the. answer is 2 million, wow. And we could. talk about. how we understand it and how we're going. to retrain society for the AI industrial. revolution is coming which is going to. create the greatest set of jobs and.

greatest set of growth ever. Ever. Okay. But that but then and we can talk about. that. But the key is stop sending money. to the wrong place so we can make sure. we can always defend sending money to. the right place. I would never allow, if. I can stand it, to not pay somebody who. retired at 65 their benefits. I find it. disgusting when we're the richest. country in the world and some politician.

says to in order to save Social. Security, rather than getting rid of the. waste, fraud, and abuse, we should move. it to 70. Yeah. How about How about No. How about we're rich enough to give. people the benefit of the bargain? Yeah. Mhm. of being a great American, but. let's put great people in charge. That's. really well said. I think that that's. really well said. Okay, let's put a pin. in let's put a pin in this because so. let's Howard explain to us global trade. as you understand it and then the.

context of tariffs and maybe. historically and what role they played. now. So I I remind people that on the. earth there was the dark ages. So the. dark ages meant that the world knew how. to read and then because of religious. and other actions they burned all the. books. Yeah. Right. And literally the. earth stopped learning how to read for. 500 years or 400 years. We didn't know. how to read. And we knew how to read. before. So how could you forget? So.

America was built on tariffs with no. income tax. No income tax till. 1913. None. Greatest, richest country in. the world. So when Donald Trump says. make America great again, what he's. talking about is from. 1880 to 1913 when the country had so. much money that we had blue ribbon. commissions, which you guys would have. been on. Yeah. Right. To try to figure.

out how to spend the money. Right. Right. And no income tax. Then we put in. the income tax in 1913. Why? Because. we're entering World War I. Yeah. And. don't we all need to contribute to. protect democracy and to protect our way. of life? Right. Then what happens is the. world goes into. chaos? We come out of. chaos, right? And then we're starting to. think of what do we do? What do we do? And then 1929, the stock market crashes, right? 1933 we start to say, oh, oh god, we.

forgot we need to do tariffs. 1933, how can you do tariffs when the. markets crash? The world's in going into. depression and you're going to do. tariffs in 1933. You can't charge the. rest of the world money unless the rest. of the world's okay. That's right. So, it was too little, too late, right? So, then we come out of World War II. It's. 1945. We need to rebuild the world. Okay? So, we decide we're going to take. our tariffs.

down and we'll let them, here's the key, we'll let them have tariffs be up and we. will export the power. of our economy to let them rebuild and. we'll let them rebuild and that's what. happens. So, 1945, we have the Marshall. Plan, right? And we do it in Japan, of. course, because they need to be rebuilt. What's the difference, right? So, they. need to be rebuilt. And then what. happens? We have the 50s and we have the. Korean War. So we let them rebuild which. means low tariffs here, high tariffs. there. Low tariffs here, high tariffs.

there. Then we have the Vietnam war, right? So now all of a sudden we have. all of Southeast Asia, low tariffs here, high tariffs there. You know what the. best example I can give you to make it. crystal clear? Kuwait. We spend what almost hundred. billion dollars freeing Kuwait. Mhm. Right. You know who has the highest. tariffs against the United States of. America? The number one country with the. highest tariffs against the United. States of America.

Kuwait. And you think what? That's it. But here's what it is. If you go back to. this understanding the way America. thinks, you need to be rebuilt. You were. just destroyed, right? all their oils. were. You remember red? The guy's name. was Red something and he was the guy who. capped all the there were fires in all. the the the oil wells and he capped them. all and it was. amazing. So we let them put up high. tariffs. But you know what the problem.

is? Then we forget, right? And we let it. go. Yeah. So Donald Trump comes in and. says it's got to stop. Okay. So that's. an incredible context now for tariffs. It's like it was a long-term strategy. that essentially says, "Okay, great. There's rebuilding to be done sort of. almost out of the large s of America. We're going to enable that to happen. So, we'll lower tariffs here and we'll. support the high tariff regimes over. there. We let it happen. We let it. happen on purpose. But it's an. incredible thing you're also saying. though, which is that it's inexurably.

linked to this repetitive machinery of. war because those create these boundary. conditions over and over again. Always. where there's so much destruction abroad. that America then feels compelled to. have to do this. Correct. That's exactly. That's exactly right. So what happens is. and then you say to yourself, okay, I. get the 40s, I get the 50s, I get the. 70s, right? But 80s, 90s, 2000, 2010. What time out 20? So Donald Trump gets.

elected. 2016. Who understands. this? Okay, let me give you a hint. Donald J. Trump. Who else? Nobody. Nobody. Yeah. Right. You'd say, "Wow, he understand." And how long's he. been talking about it? 40 years. Why? Because in the 80s he's saying, "What. are you doing?" Well, let me give you. the economist's counter, which and then. you can respond to it, which is tariffs. on imports in the United States will.

ultimately pass to the consumer. higher. prices, inflationary. So the things that. our consumers that our citizens are. buying gets more expensive and as a. result they buy less and it's. recessionary. It shrinks the economy, it. shrinks spending, it shrinks uh. consumption. Can you kind of respond to. the you know that's the the typical. economist refrain on this independent. and maybe they're isolating the. imbalance. Okay. India has a 50%.

tariff on average. 50. We have on. average. four. Okay. I would say to the person who said. that, can I ask you a question? What are. you talking about? They're 50 and four. Here's what you're talking about. when. we're all equal and everything is free. and fair. If you raise tariffs and they. raise tariffs, isn't it bad for society?

The answer is of course it is. But. there's two. differences. Number. one, let's do human beings first before. we go to the math. Let's go to human. beings. Once upon a time, we had an auto. industry in Detroit. Okay. And in Ohio, but Detroit, then. some genius named Bill Clinton signs the.

North American Free Trade Agreement or. corporations. You can screw Americans. and go get cheap labor in Mexico and. break the unions by going to Canada. Now, if you were a General Motors, I'd. say it's like my birthday. Yeah. But if. you're a. worker who comes from Michigan or Ohio, they just. signed, you know what they signed? Worst.

statistic I'm going to tell you today. Average life expectancy of high school. educated workforce. So by the way, United States of America 23 is high. school educated, one-third is college. educated. The difference today of. average life expectancy between those. two categories is seven years. Sevenyear. average life expectancy. It's not the. air. It's not the food. It's not the. medicine. It's. despair. My grandfather worked in the.

auto factory. My father worked in the. autoactory. I have a good life. I'm. going to do Friday night lights and. football. I mean, it's gonna it's going. to be a good life. I have a good middle. class life. I'm a member of the United. Auto Workers. Life is going to be good. The factory moves to Mexico and I am. just screwed because the government of. the United States of America had a. didn't care about industrial policy and. didn't protect me at all and let cheap. labor in Mexico. I'm sure the Mexican. people got went from $4 an hour to $5 an.

hour and they're kicking it. But I. destroyed. you. And. that is. incredible failure of industrial policy. which nobody wants to talk about. But. you talk about it at average life. expectancy. And you're talking about it. about reassuring and building the life. for the people who are America. That's. why you elect Donald Trump president. you elect him because I didn't spend one.

minute doing politics until he asked me. to help him. But when he asked me to. help him, I started spending time with. him. When did I learn this? And who. taught me. this? The president of the United. States. This is not me teaching him. You. understand? This is him teaching me. And. you can see him talking about it in the. 80s. Right. Right. He's been talking. about this for and what it does is it. means reshore. So number one, we have to.

care about human beings. That's a. globalist view. Yes. If I take my. production and move it to Mexico, it's. better for me, Mr. Corporation. Okay. But it's not better. for me, Mr. US citizen of the United. States of America who's working at a car. plant. That's bad news for him. Okay? And that's number one. And now let's go. to number two. which is the math of it. all. If we say free and fair trade, I.

want to remind you there ain't no such. thing. There is no country in this world. that is free trade. Zero. And we are the. lowest and the dumbest because everybody. else is higher and more protective. Yeah. So they protect their farmers. Here I I'm sitting at the dinner. Modi. comes to town and I say to him when. Donald Trump we have dinner and after. the nicities Donald says, "Go ahead. Go.

ahead, Howard." And I said, "You have. 1.4 billion people and you brag to us. how amazing your economy is. Why won't. you buy a bushel of our. corn? We'll buy a bushel of our corn so. our farmers can't go to him, but his of. course can come at us, right? Why is. that okay?" You know, and we can go into. all the stuff that oh, I mean, I don't. even want to go into it because if I had. another hour, I could retell you stories. that are fun with that, but just address. the pricing inflation that arises from.

tariffs. Talk to the average person who. says the cost of a toy at Walmart just. went up by 50%. Inflation comes from printing more. money. Okay? Let's say the United States. of America had $1 trillion. That's all. we had. That's it. No more. Okay. And I. want to buy a bottle of water and you. want to buy a bottle of water. One came. from America and the other one came from. Fiji, right? Then and I tariff Fiji,

then that water is a dollar and a. quarter and this water's a dollar. Yeah, that's not inflation. That means that. one's more expensive, but I can choose. to buy this one. Right. Okay. So, you're. right. This toy might be more expensive. and that toy is not. I get it. But. that's not inflation. Here's inflation. Snap my fingers. Now we have 2 trillion, right? That water is a $150. That water. is a dollar and a quarter. Yeah. Everything's more expensive. That's. inflation. Okay. So inflation without. tariffs is everything's a buck and a.

quarter. Now what inflation with tariffs. is a buck and a quarter, right? And a. buck 50. And so you have to understand. inflation doesn't come from tariffs. Certain products. If I put a tariff on a. mango, right? We we can't grow mangoes. in America. The we just can't grow a. mango. If you put a tariff on a mango, the mango would be more expensive. Yes. Okay. But if the president chose to put.

a tariff on a mango, then the mango is. more expensive. That's just becomes a. consumption tax. It's like a sales tax. Yes. Right. It's a sales tax. It's a. consumption tax. If I want to buy a. mango, it costs more money. And you can. offset that with a reduction in but. that's so then that's just like another. version of income tax. How do you how do. you Okay. So the idea is to not do that. Yeah. That's the idea. The idea is to is. to choose things that are going to. reshore. Yeah. Exactly. Come here. This.

is so important. Hire my people. Yeah. Bring it home. Yeah. And by the way, I. want to just speak as an entrepreneur. I. see the economic incentive when I see. the price for certain things go higher. because you have to import and pay a. tariff. I'm like, why don't we make that. here? We should be doing that. And. there's going to be a lot of that kind. of entrepreneurial opportunity that will. arise from making things. And it this is. just how the markets work. Someone will. say two trillion so far. I mean, he's. been in office right like seven weeks,

eight weeks. Yeah.$2 $2 trillion dollar. of committed domestic production coming. back because of his tariffs. TMC saying. I'll build uh you know semiconductor. wafers. Yeah. Um you know everything we. do they're going to build it here. That. word is never coming. Yeah. Yeah. Unless. the tariff. So what happens is you bring. it here you create the jobs here and. then they avoid the tariff. And by the. way, those jobs are better paying and. they're more productive than the.

government funded. What do you what do. you want to do about like the the narrow. set of products that are more high value. than the mango that maybe can't be made. here or at least can't be made here in. the next 5 to 10 years. So TSMC can make. chips. I think that's great. ASML who. makes the extremely complicated. lithography machines as an example can't. necessarily do that for another five or. six years here. So there's these narrow. cases where tariffs can exploit a market. or perturb a market where there is no.

multi- vendor solution, right? But. that's still critical. How do you think. about that set of stuff? You know, the. the beauty of putting Donald Trump in. the White House is it's it's it's giant. three-dimensional chess. Yeah. Okay. So, we all have Stockholm syndrome for the. Internal Revenue Service. We think we like the Internal Revenue. Service and we don't say it, but when we. say we're going to charge a tariff and.

other countries who lean on us, who rely. on us, who bleed on us, who can't live. without the oxygen that is our economy. Cuz remember the thing about our economy. is while we have a $29 trillion GDP, we. are the. consumer of 20 trillion. Yeah. Right. And this is the key thing. We buy. everybody's stuff. So who's more. important? The let's say they have an.

economy that produces stuff and we have. an economy that buys stuff. Yeah. The. customer is always right. We all know. the customer is always right because if. no one buys it, they can't produce it, right? So everybody needs our economy. when now. I mean to the fact that China. consumes less than 10 trillion and. primarily tries to figure out how to. sell it to itself. Yeah. Right. So they. don't buy anybody else's stuff. Right. So we are the world's consumer. We're.

the world's customer. Right. Right. So. that's point number one. So, we want. them to come here and if they can't come. here, what if you. pass? Okay. Now, let's say there was a. 20% tariff and in order to sell his. goods, he knows he can raise the price. 10% but he can't really sell it raise it. 20. So, he eats 10 and the price goes up. 10. Let's just say that 20 goes into the. coffers of the United States of America.

from the president of the United States. who said we're going to balance the. budget and then his goal is to drive. down income tax United States of America. including waving tax. So what has he. said so far with that in his pocket. knowing that this is what we're going to. try to do? What does he announce? No tax. on tips, no tax on overtime, no tax on. social security. Why is he saying those. things? Right? because he knows that. he's got Elon's going to cut and. Howard's going to raise and he's going.

to have the tools to deliver on his. promise. more money for folks to spend and. they'll have more money to spend right. so if you if you actually get the. external revenue service right which of. course I named you know I named it but. you know but you know what the funny. part. is I came up with the name I wrote a. truth right and I sent it to to DJT and. I wrote this is my huge idea, you know, with one of those things that goes like. this. Yeah. You know, on the like my.

huge idea, right? And because it's the external. revenue service, but. it only matters because I work for him. Mhm. Because if I worked for Joe Biden. or anybody else, they wouldn't care at. all. So the fact that he loves a great. idea the minute you say it and it. becomes his idea. My idea is. useless. A good idea in his hands. Okay. So speaking of all the value in the. world. So the external revenue service.

if it if we went back to make America. great again. Yeah. Which is pre-1913. which is let them pay you don't pay. And. what that means is let them pay try to. wave balance the budget. Try to wave tax. on everybody who makes less than. 150,000. Yeah. Right. And look what you. did for America. Holy moly. Look what. you, by the way, labor costs come smashing down because. it's taxree. Yeah. So, if their earnings. are taxfree, right? Then they're happy.

to work because they get the money, right? So, what happens is cost of labor. comes down because we're run correctly. as a government. This is what I'm trying. to do. Speaking of potentially great. ideas, can you tell us about the Trump. card? Sure. So, whose idea was that? And. how did that come about? John. Pollson had a call with Donald Trump and. was talking to Donald Trump and was. kicking around the idea of we should. sell, right? Why do we give away visas? We should sell them. And they're talking.

about it. Uh Donald Trump calls me, gets. me on the phone, right? We all talk. about it, right? And then we go from. there. And then my job is to figure out. like I always figure out how to do it. What's the path? Let's go figure it out. Of course, about two weeks from today, it. goes out. Okay. Elon's building me the. software right now. Yeah. Right. And. then out it goes. And by the way, uh. yesterday I sold a thousand. Oh, you.

did? I got a poly market I created on. how many are you guys going to sell this. year? So, yeah. Curious to see how many. That's fantastic. Do you want to tell. people just the rough terms. Okay. Yeah. So, if you're a US citizen, you pay. global tax. Yeah. Okay. So, you're not. going to bring in outsiders going to. come in to pay global tax. So, if you. have a green card, which used to be a. green card, now gold card, you're a. permanent resident of America. You can. be a citizen, but you don't have to be.

And none of them are going to choose to. be. What they're going to do is they're. going to have the right to be in. America. They'd be pay $5 million and they have. the right to be an American. They have. the right to be an American as long as. they're good. As long as they're good. people and they're vetted and they're. vetted and they can't break the law. We. could always take it away if they're. like evil or mean or bad or something. Not mean, but you know, if they do. something horrible, you could take it. away, right? But but the idea is if if I.

was not American and I lived in any. other country, I would buy six. One for. me, one for my wife and my four kids. because God forbid something happens. I. I want to be able to go to America and I. want to have the right to go to the. airport to go to America and them to say. hello Mr. Lutnik. Hello Mr. Lennox and. the Latin family. Welcome home. Right? That's what I want to hear. I don't want. to hear I can't come here when there's a. you know a a horrible war, a horrible. whatever, right? I want to be able to go. home, right? And once I'm.

home, I might as well build a business. Yeah. So, you have the most productive. people in the world going to start. spending time here. They're going to. have a family office. They're going to. hire some people and you're not going to. tax their external worldwide income. I. only tax the money they make in America, which is what we do now. But their. global income stays out and they pay 5. million. And how many people do you. think there are that could qualify in. the world? How many? There are 37. million people in the world who are. capable of buying the card, in case you.

were wondering. 37 million. That's a lot. more than Chad GPT told me. Who are. capable of buying? Who are capable of. buying it? Now, I'm not saying they. will, but they're capable of buying. How. many do you think he'll sell? Uh, the. president thinks we can sell a million. So, five trillion trillion dollars. I. think a million is reasonable. I mean, look, as as an outsider who came in and. got his green card and then got his. citizenship and now pay global tax every. which way known to man, if this were. available 15 years ago after the.

Facebook IPO, that's what I would have. done. It would have been much better for. me theoretically. Now, I'm happy I'm. happy to pay the tax. So, the idea So, the idea is um and it's going to go. fast. Meaning, you apply, right? We take. your money and you know the way. computers work now, they have these cool. things like these computer things. They're amazing. You like, you know, you. put stuff in and they actually check. everything. It's It's fantastic. I don't. You don't even have to plug them in. anymore. It's amazing. Like, they get. them they get the information through. the air. I mean, you could do a better.

vet. Yeah. Than anybody in government. has ever done it before in one second, right? Better than they've ever done it. before. So, I'll I mean, I'll tell you a. quick story. Monday night, Elon was. telling us about this, Nean Sachs. And. one of the things he was saying is he's. been helping you build this site. these. builders. But one of the most difficult. parts of it is it turns out like all of. the CPB infrastructure to do all these. checks, it's like a lot of cobalt. mainframes and the amount of technology. that has to get rewritten. And so this.

is a question big opportunity. It's. incredible that the most advanced nation. in the. world deployed systems in 1970 which at. the time probably felt very cutting edge. to everybody in the room at the time but. to your point has not evolved in the. last 50 years. It's always there's. always a reason okay and the reason is. it's a great reason which is that uh in. the mid70s we changed the way government. accounts for software we we took a.

10-year contract and you have to take. the contract up front. So if I if I'm. signing a contract with you for 10 years. a million a year I have to take it. against my budget for 10 million. So I'm. not doing it. See I'm only here for four. years. So what happens is when was the. last time we bought software? 1975. Where? Everywhere. Yeah. Why? Cuz it's. illogical. Now what I'm doing is I'm. saying, okay, I got to collect tariffs, right? So I go to one of the great.

software companies of the earth and I. say, I want you to give. me, you're going to build for me for. America. You're going to build the. greatest customs processing ever. We're. going to take a photograph. It's going. to know what it is. It's going to go. through AI. It's going to know what it. is. It's going to know what the tariff. is. It's going to determine the. percentage. It's going to know the. weight. So, when you weigh the thing. plus the package, you'll know what it. weighs. You don't even have to open it. It'll weigh exactly the right amount. And you'll do this and that. And these. are all things that I know and all. things I could figure out. Cuz you know.

the way gold works, like gold bar is. about 40 pounds. You know, the way I. know that gold bar is they weigh it and. they weigh out 13 digits of decimals. So, basically, if you touch the thing, it's not going to be 13 digits of. decimals. So you have a perfect scale. and you weigh it and that's like the. code. Yeah. Right. Because you can't. touch if you touch it, you'll change the. and you can't get it right out 13. digits. It's just not possible. So. that's we do with stuff. You know what. it weighs, right? Three t-shirts on a if. you send in the same three t-shirts,

they always weigh the same. But what's. incredible is you're convincing these. companies to basically like do right for. America and build this software for you. You think that's going to be a movement. throughout the government or is that. here's the idea. I say, "Build it for me. for free." Yeah. I put it in for free. I don't know what other countries in the. world you think going to buy now. Right. If it works for us, well, remember, you. have to you have to connect to me. Yeah. So, every country is going to buy, right? And it's a great business model. Right. Right. If the greatest customer.

in the world says they'll take it, Yeah. life's good, right? So, what should the. greatest customer in the world get? I. don't know, a good deal. Yeah. Right. And you got a guy like me there. You. know, everybody else is like, Howard, you have to change how government. operates if you're going to scale that. You can't go negotiate every contract. out there for every department. I mean, it's not that hard when you say it free. You know, free is like not that hard. I. mean, you Yes, it is. And then what I do. is I get the head of that technology. company. Yeah. Because I then I use my.

superpower, which is my friendship with. Donald Trump, and then I go in the Oval. Office and we call him together, right? And we call the CEO together and make. him promise the president. Promising. Howard is like really nice, right? Promising DJT, that's something else. entirely. So, I get these guys to. promise Donald Trump that they'll build. it right now. Let's see him reag. Yeah, it ain't going to happen. So, you know, when you get Elon to say, "I'm going to. build it for you." And he says it in. front of the president, like, how great. is that? You got like the greatest. technologist, the richest guy in the.

world. He says, "I'll build it for you.". You're like, "Thank God." Right? And. then I get, you know, I go to the heads. of Google and Microsoft and Amazon. They're. all for America building for us, right? For free, right? To make America better. because they are great American. companies. And in exchange for that, we're going to help them through all. sorts of things that are towards. fairness. Just towards fairness because. I you can't get me to do something.

outside the world of fairness. But I. tell you what, if it's unfair, I'll be. on your side as hard and as positive as. I possibly can be. Talk to us about some. of the hot button markets that you're. going to have to navigate. You know, you. are in charge of export controls, which. is a very important thing in AI. We. don't allow export licenses for the most. advanced NVIDIA chips. We don't want. training necessarily to be done outside. of the United States. We're okay with. inference happening outside the United.

States in certain conditions. Maybe just. talk about that for a second. How like. how do you how are you going to navigate. AI? How do you think about that from. your seat? All right. So I I'll give you. an example that's sort of live right. now. Yeah. Right. So we have DeepSeek, we have Quinn, we have DOBA. Yeah. Right. And and I don't think we should. be having apps in America. And I don't. think we should have their website in. America because they all go back home. Okay. But it's open source. And I want.

our American companies, including. college students, to be able to download. it and build on it. Right. But I want to. make sure that there's no part of it. that says send it home to Dada. Right. Or or store now and analyze later. Right. Right. So I need that out. So. what I want to do is I'm going to. embrace what you guys know. You guys are. used to product evaluations. Yeah. So. let's do security val. Exactly. Right. and say your industry and you can't let. it get overwhelm overrun by Chinese.

because what happens is if there's a. policy, right, all of a sudden a 100,000. people from China come in and they say. they're John John Smith and and and Todd. Peterson, right? But they're not and. then you think the vote is this way. Yeah. And it's easily manipulated. So we. have to be very careful. But my first. instinct is to lean on and that and. that's why I see it's important to have. David Saxs as my partner, right? Someone. who knows it and and someone who can.

live and breathe the industry, right? And so what we're going to have is we're. going to have security. evaluation and say if the security. evaluation model says that this is a. good model, yeah, then people can. download it. Yeah, but. it's smell like what we're good at. I. don't want to create like, oh, this is. what I don't want to do. I want us to do. it, but I've got to figure out the right. way to do that, right? And that's. important. Articulate the standards,

articulate sort of the concept, and then. let a lot of these private market actors. kind of help fill in the gaps and. compete. The only thing I I think I. really need to do and that's with. regulatory is postquantum cryptography. Yeah. Okay. I I think that is vital to. us. That's right. Yeah. Right. That that. you know as I would bet this happens. during this administration. He bets. post. I I know. I'm gonna put it out. because you know we all have passwords,

right? For those who are watching who. don't know this. Our passwords called. asymmetric, right? Yours is different. than mine, right? That's the. key and cryptography is just the. computing. So asymmetric key. cryptography, you have your password. I. have mine and they're the key. That's. right. Right. Obviously the central hub. has our key. Duh. Okay. A a quantum. computer we know can break all of them. in a nancond. Like all of them in the. whole world including the CIA all of. them. RSA 2048 all of them can get.

broken in a nancond by a quantum. computer. Yeah. So, the defense of it is. called postquantum cryptography, right? We know how to do it and we'll come out. with a rule that says America's got to. protect itself. New standards. And by. the way, there are because every once in. a while, you need to have a new standard. that says it's coming. We know what it. is. Please God, go put it in because we. need to have it in. We need America to. deliver. Great segue. Let's let's sort. of segue now to a couple things that we. can enjoin together in this concept.

Crypto, obviously, Bitcoin. You guys. announced the strategic Bitcoin reserve, but broadly speaking, you also announced. sort of this idea of the sovereign. wealth fund. Can we talk about that sort. of what is the what is the vision behind. that? How do you want that to be. executed? How do you think it should be. run? What assets are on the table? What. assets and strategies may should never. be on the table? How are you thinking. about it? The greatest customer in the. world, the United States government, the. most powerful, the greatest customer, buys stuff. We walk in, we're gonna buy,

here's the example I like to use, we're. gonna buy two billion COVID vaccines. When we buy it, FISA and Madna stocks. are going to triple. They're going to. triple because then we say everyone's. got to have this. vaccine. If I were after Jared Kushner. negotiated the best deal he could, if. Howard Lutnik walked in the room, Howard. Lutenic would say, "What do you think? 20% warrants? Right. 20% warrants,

right? Right. What? So, we'd make $50. billion off of who? Nobody. We didn't. take from anybody. We didn't do Okay. The shareholders of Fizer who we've just. tripled them with our order. Right now, how many of my customers in my life have. required that from me? All of them. All. of them. Like, this isn't like, oh, Howard, this is the greatest new idea. ever. This is just business proper. So I. don't. view risk of the sovereign wealth fund.

I view the first couple of years of the. sovereign wealth fund or Scott Bessant. and I making money Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. Say, well, but you can't invest and lose. Don't you lose money? No. Why? Well, if. I have big daddy of the United States of. America behind me, right? And I'll give. you I'll give you an example. We buy. missiles. episodically. Launch a missile, buy a.

missile. Launch a missile, buy some. missiles. Right. The people who sell us. missiles have bad quarterly earnings or. good quarterly earnings, but they're. episodic. Yeah. Here we go. I will sign. a contract with. you, 10-year contract, cancel it at the. end of five years to buy X amount of. missiles, and I'll pay you quarterly. Then they can take that contract, they. can go finance it, their financing costs.

go, their earnings are steady and their. multiple improves and their stock. doubles up. Yeah. And I say in exchange. for that reasonable thought, how about a. little warrants, right? Give me stock. Just for people that don't understand, give me some stock. Give me a little bit. of your stock. But but don't give me. some stock. Just give me the upside. If. I if I help your stock go up, just a. little bit. I I get to share it. And you. know what I do? Wipe my beak a little. bit. And then I take the money. Yeah. For the United States of America and I. put it into the social security system. in the United States of America. Okay.

So why have And then all of a sudden, right? So the social security system. says it's 4 trillion in the hole. Yeah. Okay. If we cut the waste for abuse out, it becomes uh 1.5 trillion. And by the. way, Frank Biznano, the greatest. executive, the greatest payments. executive ever to join the US. government, is about to get confirmed. and take over the social security. system. Okay, Frank ran Fiserve, $120. billion public payments company. And.

when Donald Trump asked him in his. interview, can you handle social. security? It's 1.3 trillion a year. He. goes, well, see, I I handle 500 billion. a day. So, uh, Wednesday, right? And he goes, my whole. life I my whole life all I worry about. is getting rid of waste, fraud, abuse. That's all I care about every single. day. $5, $2, $1. He goes, "This is going. to be the most fun I've ever had." Yeah. I mean, this Yeah. Like this is a Donald. Trump administration. This is something. that's another planet. Now of course I. recruit Frank and you know I get to have. my piece in the game. But if we get rid.

of a couple hundred billion then it's. only a trillion four in the hole. We. make a trillion four. Yeah. That baby's. that baby is finished forever. Is the. sovereign wealth fund a balance sheet. for social security? Does social. security become more than what it is. today? Does it over time offer bigger, greater benefits? And is it basically a. pool that holds equities? Historically, and we talked about this on our show, it's only ever held treasuries, but it's. really kind of a fake treasury. It's got.

2.7 trillion today, but if we bought the. S&P in 1971 when we went off the gold. standard with the cash flows that have. come in and gone out of social security, we'd have a $15 trillion interest in the. S&P today. But you'd have that that. would have had you have Donald Trump be. the president the whole time, which was. not a thing, right? Okay. But is that is. that the objective is that the sovereign. wealth fund is basically for the benefit. of retirees in this country and it. becomes like a sovereign wealth fund. that we have a $36 trillion budget. deficit. I mean debt debt. Yeah. To the. United States of America and we we have.

a budget deficit of two trillion. So. Donald Trump wants to knock down the two. trillion. Yeah. And then he's focused on. the 36 trillion of which the social. security is part of it. Yeah. So how he. allocates it. He was elected president. of the United States. I was not. Yeah. Okay. I like the social security idea. because it's really easy to explain to. people and sell to people and so they. understand it. But the fact is that it's. the same money if I put it in social. security or I put it on the debt of the. United States of America. And I'm going. to let Donald Trump make that decision. You know why? Because it's all he's like.

and none of it's not mine. So he will. decide that. Okay. And he will play it. his way. But but Scott Bessant and I. will make more than a trillion dollars. for the United States of America during. our term, which is pretty darn cool, right? And we'll use that and if that. reduces our. debt, right? But that's not the policy. of how we're going to balance the. budget. We're going to balance the. budget. Trump. card tariffs, getting rid of scams. I'll.

give you a scam example. Every boat. you've ever seen, like every single. cruise. ship, super tanker, container ship, you've never seen an American flag ever. In fact, you ever think about the flag. you've actually seen? All of you would. say, "I have no idea what that flag is.". Like, why is it some flag I never heard. of? Liberia is number one. And you go, what? No one even knows where Liberia.

is. Because the answer is it's a flag of. convenience. They sell the flag for like. 10 grand. Like they literally here you. can have a flag and you pay no tax. So. what happens is a cruise ship in the. United States of America picks up. American passengers, goes in the. Caribbean, comes back to America and. treats the port as an expense and all. the profits are made in the Caribbean. where it pays no tax. That's what I call. a tax scam. Yeah. I mean it's unfair to. America. We're going to fix that in. America. We're going to try to fix a.

whole bunch of these tax scams. Ireland. is my favorite. The country of Ireland. last year had a $60 billion budget. surplus. So we lose$2 trillion and they. make 60. He'd say Ireland, what do they. do? Oh, they have all of our IP for our. great tech, all the tech companies. All. our great tech companies and great. pharma companies. And pharma. Yeah. They. all put it there because it's low tax. and they don't pay us. They pay them. So.

that's got to end. So when those things. end, tariffs, trump card, getting rid of tax. scams to get fair tax, that's my. trillion. Elon's got to do his trillion. So whenever I see him getting off the. rails, he and I go out and we have a. strong conversation together that you've. got to do your trillion. So, you got to. focus not on small potatoes, right? Big, big, big, big, big. I need you to do.

your side of the trillion. Now, as it. turns out, I'm going to do more than a. trillion cuz I'm me. Elon's probably. going to do more than a trillion because. he's him. And then what we're going to. do is going to our objective is to smash. down the Internal Revenue Service and. change America. And then imagine. America. This is just an imagination. moment, okay? We have a balanced budget. in the United States. We're starting to. knock down the the deficit of America.

We can cut. tax and we have a gold card, a Trump. card that you can come to America. Which. entrepreneur have you ever met who. wouldn't buy one? Yeah. and wouldn't. start building businesses when they. think the tax rate here is going to come. down and eventually it's going to come. down to 20% and eventually it's going to. come down to 15%. You won't be able to. find a plot of land in America. You know. what I predict will happen? I predict. the just like in the medallion industry. for taxi cabs, there'll be a financing. industry that'll build up around these.

uh these gold cards or these trump cards. that great entrepreneurs, great. executives will be able to finance their. purchase along with someone getting. venture capital interest or equity. interest in their business. But I'm. going to we're going to take that money. We're gonna we so we'll sell them every. year. Yeah. Right. So they'll knock down. our budget deficit and then eventually. Right. If if Donald Trump is right and. ultimately we can sell 7 million cards. Mhm. You realize there is no debt in. America. No debt in America is a. trillion dollars a year in debt.

coverage. Right. Trillion dollars a year. in debt coverage. You know what that. changes? That changes the Internal. Revenue Service. You you start to. rethink and I just want to remind you, right? We are the richest country on. earth. Our balance sheet is 500. trillion. I give you an example. What's. the court system of America worth? Right. Right. What's it worth? Well, how. can Nvidia be worth three trillion. without a court system that protects it? Right. There's no such thing. So just. our everything about us, the.

infrastructure is awesome. And you know. what happens? We we we actually like we. get beaten upon and we actually believe. it. Yeah. You could ask Doug Bergam. about how undervalued a lot of our real. estate is in this country and the. potential for it. We think about Biden. closed 635 million acres. This is this. is electing Joe Biden head of Saudi. Arabia and he closes the oil wells. Yeah. And all of a sudden Saudi Arabia. falls off the face of the earth broke. Like what are we doing? Like we care.

about Americans. Yeah. Let's make. Americans lives great. Howard, we want. clean water. We want clean air. Okay. We. do it better than everybody else. But if. we don't Here's the one like the. hypocrisy, right? We won't mine lithium. in America to make a battery. Yeah. But. so we so the Australians mine it with. coal and it's messy because they do it. like, you know, they do it messy. By the. way, we breathe the air in 3.4 days, but. who's counting, right? Then we take it,

we put it on a truck. We take put the. truck and put it in a super tanker. We. drive this super tanker that pollutes. the living heck out of the world across. 12,000 miles of ocean, puts it in a. truck and gives it to Elon to make an. electric car. Why don't we mine the. lithium in Nevada, right? And by the. way, we'd mine it. cleaner, right? And by the way, it's not. just lithium. Almost anything that we. could possibly conceive of needing over. the next couple of decades exists in the. continental United States. We just have.

had no incentive or no structure. regulatory wise that enables the. development of it which is this is we. need to care for us make America you. know America first. How about there's. another way to say well maintaining. clean environmental first. Well. maintaining environmental standards. Yeah. Don't look we're never going to do. something that's not like a hundred. times cleaner than everybody else cuz we. care about clean water and clean air.

There's none of us who don't care about. clean water and clean air, but you know, like someone gives you a pill and says, "This will save you." And then you look. at the statistic and it saves one in a. million people and you'd say, "Uh, why. am I taking this pill?" You say, "Well, it'll it could save your life." You'd. say, "Yeah, but it's like one in a. million." Right? That's not logical. Right? That's the point. You know, there's a regulation. That's the right. thing. Yeah. And there's a regulation.

that's that's the one ina million pill. Like why do we give a baby a baby a. hepatitis B vaccine? Do you realize we. have a brand new. baby and we hold it up and we give it a. hepatitis B vaccine? You realize the. only way you get hepatitis B was is from. unprotected. uh sex or a needle. Like why are we. giving them to a baby? Like why? And you. know what it is? You know what the. answer is? corruption that someone in. the government got paid to put that in.

the rules and because there's no. justification. There's no I haven't met. a medical doctor who says hepatitis B. vaccines on brand new babies make sense. because by the way, you know what the. worst part is? They only last 10 years. You need a booster in 10 years. So, the. baby's going to be 10. We've got to. really be fair to ourselves and be fair. to Americans. And I think we can be. And. I think that's why I'm so excited.

That's why our cabinet is so excited. That's why it's so much fun to work for. Donald Trump. Because I am just speaking from his. playbook, right? Because if you had met. me before he said, "Will you help me?". And he went out to dinner with me and. said, "So tell me about government." I'd. say, "Uh, government? You mean I pay them. taxes?" Like that's it. Are you having. the time of your life? the most fun ever. because I have every. idea either gets blown up or shot.

down. Okay? Meaning I come up with lots. of ideas and he says, "Nah, too. complex." And you know what? That's. fine. Yeah. But when I come up with the. external revenue service and he says, "Great idea." And then he speaks of it. in his inaugural address, right? It's. his idea. Yeah. Because I can't do. anything with it. Howard, last question. as we wrap. Tell us about your family, your kids, how do they think about all. of this? Your son's running caner now. How's that going? Just give us the lay.

of the land. How how's the Lutnik. family? All right. So, I have I have the. best wife. I've been married 30 years. Uh she lets me be me and she's gorgeous, spectacular. I love my girl. Um she. agreed. I mean, imagine this. I'm not. I'm not joining the government. I'm not. joining the government. I'm doing this. Doge thing with Elon. I'm not joining. I'm not joining. Honey, we got to move. Like, honey, we got to move two weeks. after election day. I'm like, we're. moving. And uh we're going to in five. weeks we're going to live in Washington,

okay? And like, so the fact that that. wasn't unsettling would be the. understatement of a lifetime. But she's. been the most supportive and fantastic. I have four kids. Uh my oldest son about. to turn 29. I was taking him to. kindergarten, so that's why I'm alive. My second son, Brandon, I dropped him. off in nursing school and then took my. oldest son to kindergarten. Um, so the two oldest boys are running. caner now until I Deb asked. Is it going. well? I don't know. Oh, you of course you're.

not supposed to know you. It's kind of. fun. I would love to talk to them about. it. You have no idea, but I'm not. allowed. Like I I literally am not. allowed. And you know, we all know the. phones. Yeah. So since the phone's. always with me and I assume the phone is. listening. You know, ever since we. couldn't take our battery out of our. phone, you know, the phone is listening. So, you know, I'm not No. So, I never. talked to my son. So, uh I'm sure. they're happy, but I don't know how it's. going. Guys, if you're listening, he's. doing great, as you can tell, but and. then my my daughter is going to go to.

med school. Yeah. And she's on a gap. year now. And my youngest son also on a. gap year now, and he's going to uh start. Duke in the fall, right? So, I have the. best kids. uh my kids have lived with me and they. lived with this kind of energy and this. positive sort of momentum and and my. wife being just a spectacular mom just. keeping them what we taught our kids. which is a fun one is. uh I taught him two things uh I would.

sit down with my kids and say how great. is your life and this is only maybe. something that people like we can say. but I'm talking to my kids I say how. great is your life they go great cuz. they came home and they Hey, I got a bad. grade. Teacher doesn't like me. It's a. classic line, right? Yeah. And I said, well, how good's your life? Really good. I go, could it be be any. better? No. Well, do you realize your. teacher has given up her whole life? Yeah. And she makes how much money?

Yeah. And she's given her whole life to. teach you. Yeah. So, can I ask you a. question? Is it her job to like you or. is it your job for her to like you? who's failing in what you just. said, right? It's your job to have her. like you. So, when she says raise your. hand, raise your hand. Right? And the. other thing is, do me a favor, color. inside the lines. Okay? In high school, if she says this guy is orange, the. answer to the test is orange. When you.

get to college, you can argue with the. professor all you want. High school, color inside the lines. Give the teacher. what she wants. Make sure she loves you. and you're getting a good grade. That's. the rules of life. Yeah. And my wife. beat that into my children so that they. would have it in their souls in their. moral character. Yeah. Of someone who's. fighting for you, needs to have your. love and respect back. If you take them. for granted, if you treat them badly, if.

you treat them like, "Oh, aren't I so. great?" Then you deserve what you get. And my wife has taught that moral fiber. into my children and it it resides in. them. And the other thing my kids have. is they have empathy which is a very. unusual thing for young people. And it's. because they're they were raised with. their father crying every day. I cried. every day until October.

21st, 2004. Wow. every day because I thought of someone I. hadn't thought of, you know, or someone. would say 658 people died and I I just. there was you can't process all of that. death. Yeah. Without crying. And and the. only reason I remember is cuz as I fell. asleep, I told my wife that I didn't cry. today and she wrote it down. That's the only reason I remember. So, um my kids are are fantastic. They've. been incredibly supportive and uh and my.

wife's the best and she lives with me in. Washington. We bought Brett Bear's. house, so I have a nice house big enough. for my ego to expand. Very important. Tomorrow hasn't found one that big yet. to look at. Howard, you're an incredible American. Thank you. very much for everything. This was. really fun in coming to talk. Honestly, this is this has been one of my I mean. my favorite conversation we've had. Absolutely. I mean, like he's like this. all the time. I mean, not. just like we have dinner at like.

Nicasha's house, who's a good friend of. ours, runs Paul Altera Networks, and. Howard's like, you just push the button. and you can just sit and just listen. You can listen to him for hours. By the. way, I will say I'll echo the point you. made earlier. I think every member of. this cabinet is an incredible. storyteller. I mean, you're like on. another level, but like the. storytelling, I think, is what's so. powerful about this cabinet and this. administration. And I think it's going. to take some time to get the message. out. But man, is are there incredible. ambassadors to do so with they are so. capable. Yeah. Each of them is so.

capable, so thoughtful. I mean, I I am. honored to be on this cabinet with them. But we all get to work for Donald Trump. who can intuitively tell you, "Go fix. eggs." Yeah. Yeah. And then Brooke goes. fix eggs and eggs are down like 40%. And. Brooke fixes eggs. I mean, how awesome. is that? Right. And gas is down 40. cents, right? And he's only just begun. if we get if we get the Constitution. pipeline in New York passed. And I sat.

with him while Donald Trump lectured. Governor Hokll on the. unbelievable oil in fracking that they. have in New York and the wealth that New. York could have if they unleashed it, but they refused to unleash it. So he's. going to force the Constitution. pipeline, which by the way will drop gas. on the east coast of the United States. of America, in half. M I mean this is. and that's you know then you got that's. Chris Wright that's Doug Bergam you got. Brook Rollins I mean you could just go.

you know Scott Bessant you know so. thoughtful and elegant I mean he's he. just step by step by step and you have. really the most fun cabinet working for. the most intuitive smartest guy to ever. sit behind the Resolute desk and we're. going to make America great again not as. a slogan but we're going to balance the. budget we're going change America. Thank. you, Howard. Thanks, [Music].

Howard. I'm going all in.