The Scream Murder, Episode 6: The Night Of

Hi. This is Conor McCarthy. And today. we're sharing the final episode of the. Scream Murder, a true teen horror story. If you've enjoyed listening, remember to. check out the full documentary, The. Scream Murder, a true teen horror story, streaming on Hulu and Disney Plus. And. don't forget, you can get early and. ad-free access to more true crime. podcasts like this one on Apple Podcasts. when you subscribe to 2020 True Crime. Plus. Now, here's the finale.

It's been 20 years since Cassie Jo. Stoddart's murder. And Tory Adamcik has decided to drop the. lies and tell his part of the story. Starting with the night that has haunted. the town of Pocatello [music] ever. since. >> I followed Brian up the stairs and. I. I would could feel my heart start to. race. and. we knew which room Cassie was in.

>> [music]. >> This is the final episode of The Scream. Murder, a true teen [music] horror story. podcast. >> We left off the last episode of this. podcast talking to Brian Draper and Tory. Adamcik 20 years after the murder. They're both sentenced to life in prison. without parole and Conor spent. uh months basically getting to know. these guys and getting them to talk. And. we wanted to right now dive into what.

Tory told you uh the right off the bat. when you first talked to him. >> [music]. >> Is there anything that's off limits for. you? >> No, because like literally the only. shameful thing that I've really done. with my life is. stab Cassie. I admitted to. everything I've done. except stabbing Cassie because that was. one thing I couldn't admit to.

So. I just continued to tell a lie. and make everything worse with a lie. instead of taking responsibility for. what I'd done. >> This is basically the first time in. public he has ever gone this far with. admitting what he had done because if. you remember, Brian was the one who said. to police that they did this. He had. never admitted this. >> Never, never. So I didn't know how. guarded he was going to be, how open he.

was going to be. Uh he definitely was. cautious and had hesitation. And then when I finally get him on the. phone to talk about, you know, his life, this is where we started. So right out of the gate, he takes full responsibility for his. part in the crime and that's the first. time that we know of that he had ever. done that and spoke about Cassie. directly like that. >> So I just want to take a second and uh. get a little deeper, maybe a little. behind the scenes with what it took to. get these interviews with Brian Draper.

and Tori Adamcheck. You know, you are doing this with the. full knowledge of what they did and how. evil this murder was. But you kind of. have to almost set that aside. >> Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, these. are now 35-year-old men. We had just we had been watching and. learning about this. crime. and they are teenagers. For them to. appear on a screen. and seeing them as adults was it was.

startling to be honest. Um but I I had. to. [clears throat and gasps]. I had to show them some patience and uh. some courtesy for lack of a better word. because, you know, we wanted to get to. the truth, but I also wanted to make. sure that we never forgot Cassie and. that is the reason why we were talking. And it was it was it was it was. difficult knowing the crime that they. committed and me having a 12-year-old. daughter who was not that much younger. than. how old Cassie was when she was killed. So that was that was difficult that the. crime that they had perpetrated um and.

and being a parent myself, um it it just. it it, you know, there's an emotional level. that you have to try to set aside and. just get to the core of the truth on why. this happened. >> But then he not only for the first time. in public admitted his role, he went. into more detail about that night. What. do you hear from them him what he said. about that right here? >> It was something we were talking about. But it wasn't until Matt actually left.

the house. that it started to get really real. Like it started to become a possibility. >> Okay, what he's talking about there is. the night of the murder Cassie had been. house sitting and her boyfriend Matt, that's the Matt he's referring to, was. at the house with her. >> Yeah, and where they are at this point. they're in the basement. And this is what he said happened next. >> I followed Brian up the stairs and.

I could feel my heart race start to. race. And we knew which room Cassie was in. He told me to go into that room. I told. him no. And he walked into the the. doorway of the living room where she was. at. And. at that point. I basically knew it was going to happen.

But I felt like I couldn't do anything. about it. My memories of what my actions were. I stabbed her twice. And I. let I didn't stop Brian from attacking. her in the first place. Brian had attacked her. And. I followed that up.

when he. told me that she wouldn't die. by walking in that room stabbing her. myself. Like the one thought was I guess this is. what we came to do. and I forced myself to do it. Brian changed his story a few times. and. he he ended up doing what I did with. which was trying to blame everything on. me.

as I was blaming everything on him. And so it took us both a while to own up. to what we did. >> When you talked to Brian, he was even. less willing to talk about the night of, but he did talk in detail about Cassie. and the remorse he felt. >> When you think about Cassie, what do you. think? >> Just the older I get like. the younger she gets, you know, like she. was just a little kid, you know. And.

like she had her whole life ahead of her. and. doesn't matter how much time passes, like that pain doesn't go away and. that's what I tell these guys, man. Like like. the TV shows and. like things like that and like like. movies like. they don't explain like. what you take and what.

the. the consequence. And. it doesn't matter like where I'm at, if. I'm in prison or on the outside, like. that's never going to go away and that's. something that I. I don't know. It's. when I think of Cassie I I. think of. a little girl, man, like. it sucks. cuz I see little girls here visiting and.

and I just can't imagine ever hurting. someone like that and I did and it's. just I I don't know. That's what I'll say, bro. But that's a. hard question. I. Like when you're a kid, like you don't. understand about the world and. about life and. don't understand anything and like. everything was a movie. It was a joke. Everything was just. imagination and fantasy and there was no. real consequence to anything until. until that happened. And everything became real and.

really living in a nightmare that I've. fought so so hard to climb out of. over the years, but there's one. part of that nightmare that. will never go away and that's that that. she's dead. That's never going to go away. And that night will never go away. >> Yeah, I mean I in in speaking with. Brian, he wanted to highlight the things. that he was able to do on the inside. because what he had done and that he is. stuck at the the worst decision he'd. ever made. And he is never going to get.

out of prison is how he's looking at it. Um and yeah, that that remorse he was. you can see in the video. there were tears in his eyes. Now there. were debates about, you know, was it. performative early on, 16 year old. Brian, but I did feel in that moment. that it was genuine. There was genuine. remorse, whether it was taking a life or. remorse for himself that he is where he. is today. But that's as close to the. night of that that he would get and I I.

didn't I didn't push him on it. >> Also, what hangs over all of this is the. question of why Cassie. They were all. friends. >> All friends. >> And she was, you know, a perfectly. normal, regular, not a mean girl in high. school. You know, why did they pick her. out of the crowd? Was it just oh, we. knew she was going to be home alone like. they said on the tape. or was there something deeper? And you. asked Tori about that. >> Yes.

Maybe you can talk to me. One thing that you haven't described and. this is something we're still trying to. kind of get to the core. You know, why someone like Cassie? And why why Cassie? >> Uh, that I can only explain through luck. Not like, you know, lucky I won the. lottery, but I mean like luck in the. terms of how events fall into place, you. know? It's like.

if Cassie wouldn't have been babysitting. that night, it. definitely wouldn't have happened. There's um there's like a million events. that just fell into place to make it to. make the opportunity available. And me and Brian just were looking for. an opportunity at the time when an. opportunity came available. That's why. Cassie's death is. tragic is because she just was the. unlucky one to.

be alone when me and Brian knew she was. alone. And me and Brian were talking. about killing somebody a week before. that happened. >> What was Cassie like? >> Um, Cassie was. a school friend mostly. I knew her a little bit outside of. school, but mostly we hung out in.

classes we had together. She was more outgoing than I was, so. she could. she helped me to. feel comfortable around my about myself. around her. But. um. I I can't say what it was that really. made us friends though other than I. guess we just both liked each other and.

made each other laugh. >> It's prob- probably hard to talk about. because she seemed like she was a. a good a she was a [music] friend. >> Yeah, she was. Yeah, I really just don't know how I. couldn't see the basic empathy that I. owed to her. as. what every every human deserves. >> It doesn't make any sense. He describes Cassie as just being a.

supportive friend and who in some ways. understood that. Tory was going through something. He. said that she tried to bring him out and. encourage him to be himself. She was just she was nothing but kind. and supportive. I I didn't get the sense that they were. close. You know, when he said she was a. school friend, that means there wasn't a. lot of socializing. So, like we had said. in a previous episode, we think they. were closer to Matt and that was more of. a reason of why they showed up at the. house in the first place.

But this is in some ways not a. a good enough answer. >> No. There's no good answer, but that's not even close to a good. answer. >> happened to be the unlucky one while we. were plotting a murder and it was. essentially saying it was just a good. opportunity because of the the. circumstances that fell into place. In. that video, you can see though there is. a point when he mentions he didn't show. any empathy. There's a pause. I can see. he shakes his head.

and then he says that and it's like I. did see in that in that moment. it it felt like there was a a real. moment of remorse that it is that was. just spinning in his head of if he can. even see how grotesque. that action was. And I think maybe today. as an adult looking back, I found it to be genuine, not that it. excuses anything. >> Two things can be true. He can be sorry. and he can also deserve to be in prison. for the rest of his life. >> So, like I had asked Brian Draper to.

tell me a little bit about his childhood. since we've heard from everybody else. telling us about it. We want to hear. from him directly. I asked Tory to go. through. how he thinks of his childhood and and. going into the teenage years and and. some surprising things come out of this. conversation. >> My 16th year. it. was split between the last three months. of my free life. and the first nine months of my life in.

prison. [music]. Before my arrest I had. an uneventful life. I didn't read. I. didn't have any talents to speak of. and everything was done for me. uh in light of responsibilities. I had started. uh [music] dark thinking pattern or. started getting into a dark place when. I don't know. You know it's it's I can't.

pinpoint [music] it but. it probably accumulated from. uh three. three things. School was just an awkward and. awkward situation [music] for me which. is not uncommon experiences but. very real and debilitating at the time. And these anxieties were compounded by. the shame and loneliness of being gay. and lost in a heterosexual world.

I was [snorts] scared that someone would. find out. All my friends are straight. All my family that I know are straight. Like I didn't know one person. not even like a distant you know like. family friend or anything. to anybody who is openly gay. This unfortunately made me angry. but it's no excuse for what I did and.

the choices I made. >> What I found most interesting about what. Tory just said um coming out. I talked to Shannon, his mom, about it. and uh this is this is a surprising turn. in the story and you know what she was. pretty open about as who she was then. and who she is now. >> You know, when I asked him how he looks. back at that 16 year old. and he said that he was going.

he was a kid going through a crisis. Do. you know what he was talking about? >> I don't know if he was just beginning to. realize it but he was definitely. I don't know if he'd already realized I. don't know how old it was but Tori is. gay. and he really struggled with that. When Tori told me we were in prison he's. like I've been meaning to tell you this. for years mom I know I've never known. how to tell you this. It was like the. hardest thing for him to tell me that he.

was gay. and I just said Tori after everything. we've been through this is small. potatoes. Meant nothing to me but I can't say that. would have been the case before all. this. I would have not been happy. It's changed me a lot. I will be perfectly honest I thought I. was a great mother. I really did. I. thought oh my gosh I'm doing everything. right. [music] Very actively involved. with my kids. and then suddenly all those credentials.

are taken away. Tori's arrested it's. like I can't parent anybody. I failed at that job. >> I mean it it it all goes back to who. they thought they were, the family they. thought they had and the the the people. they thought they were, you know, raising. to you know the reality of of it all. >> The total before and after. >> Brian and Tori. found themselves in in a in a crisis as. they would would describe it. Um you. know being a ghost in high school or not.

being to be your true self. These are not. extraordinary teenage experiences. I. mean millions of kids are ghosts to. girls or you know coming out to your. parents. It's a challenge that I think. so many people can relate to and it. doesn't lead to murder. >> Right. >> Um and then when you get to the heart of. it, yes, they were in a crisis. Was it. unusual? No. >> Right. There's. you know, kids all over the world going.

through the same thing. They don't kill. anybody and this is no excuse for what. they did in any way, shape or form. >> They both were they're teenagers who. couldn't be with the person they wanted. to be with and that was an absence and. as a result of it, it turned into these. like violent this this violent angry um. individuals that unfortunately it just. snowballed into this what what happened. on September 22nd. >> So the other uh.

thing that sort of you want to ponder. here is the tape that they made. You know, um it's sort of been threaded. throughout this podcast. It was threaded. throughout the documentary series. Um and it's one of the things that makes. this case. so bizarre. uh and so hard to forget. Um. what did you ask them about why they did. this tape? >> Well well, I think there was so much. debate on the the the reason for its.

existence. Was this in preparation of making a. movie? Was it the fact that Brian just. always had a camera and he was always. around and he just captured everything. including. the plotting and execution of of a. murder. Um. but the only people that could answer. that question. Brian and Tory. Yeah, if you're okay with talking about. it, why did you make that video? >> [music]. >> Um.

it was Brian's camera. and. he was in a habit of [music] carrying it. around with him and filming. before this video was made. And so it [music] it. as naturally as it could have it it just. was a documenting what we were thinking. and planning. But by being on camera, I was just aware. of that, so I acted a little differently.

than. how I would have off camera, if that. makes sense. And. I didn't I didn't object to it. And if if anybody who's watched that. video can. like differ. there's like no organization to it and. it. we rewinded and recorded over stuff we. had previously recorded. There there wasn't any plan for that. video. It.

It was just the camera was there while. we were doing this stuff. And so. it. happened to be made just out of that. post fact alone. >> So, you know, Tory says he was playing. sort of a character. Uh we were just documenting. I mean, it. was pretty horrific stuff what they were. documenting. But then Brian also had a. take on it. And this is something we. want to explore a little a little deeper. here. >> Yeah, this is this is Brian on the tape.

>> We were largely playing characters. We. were playing dress up and we were able. to. we were able to be characters that we. wanted to be and people that we wanted. to portray. So we didn't I don't think it was really. genuinely me or him on the tape or in. how we talked. It was just we were. we were posturing and and blustering. with each other and. it was largely like we never sat down. and had like existential conversations. about why we were doing this. Like that. never happened because at the time.

I don't think I had the understanding of. why I was involved in this either. It. was just kind of like well. I. I don't know. It's It's one of those. weird things where I wasn't able to. really go into. my own. mind and like introspection and really. understand what was going on but because. everyone has like underlying like. motives for why they do things and and. when I was 16 I didn't understand my. motives. >> I didn't understand my motives. >> They. >> they both said they were they were in. some ways playing characters.

>> Yeah. >> or you know, it was a heightened version. of them, exaggerated version of them of. the the the dark thoughts that they were. having. Um. the issue there is. they killed Cassie. They they went through with it. So this. elevated or character that they were. playing, you know, on TV, um. that was the real life version, too. >> You know, you contrast this very sober.

examination of this question. uh 20 years later by these 35 year old. men. But if you contrast that with the. kids we saw on that tape. is very different. They were happy to be. doing what they were doing. And this. this looking back. um has to be in the. seen in the context of the tape itself. where they were [music] downright. gleeful it seemed at times. >> Mhm. Yeah. We've had a lot of people talk about. that tape, including Brian and Tori.

themselves. But we decided we wanted to. go to someone on the outside, an expert. in child psychology. And that was uh. Lawrence Steinberg, uh who is a professor of psychology and. neuroscience at Temple University. We. had him watch the tape. without anything else, any other. information, [music] and to see what he. was able to gather from that tape. >> The most striking [music] thing in their. conversations is the callousness and the. lack of emotionality. There's a second part of it.

that has to do with their desire to be. famous for this. Right? They're going to. be. the the worst killers ever. >> We're going to be murders. Like let's see, Ted Bundy, like the. Hillside Strangler, the Zodiac Killer. >> Those people are more amateurs compared. to what we're going to be. >> So the dynamic between Brian and Tori is. one where I think. at at the most fundamental level, they're supporting each other. Um, so it may not be that important.

to decide who is the leader, who's the. follower. I mean, they both are clearly. um playing off each other in ways that. increases the likelihood of this. happening. And I think it'd be much less likely to. have happened had this been a single. individual with this fantasy um than two. boys planning this thing together. >> Did how are we supposed to express. ourselves? >> Good and bad. >> We're we're bad?

>> We are bad. >> Hey, that sounds so shitty. >> We're evil. That sounds even shittier. >> We're not gay. They were sick. psychopaths. They did get pleasure of. killing other people. >> And for some individuals, these traits. stay stable over time and they evolve. into adult psychopathy. >> Psychopathy, you know, that's the first. time I think we've heard anyone use that. term which is uh loaded. So I asked him. just define that in general terms what. that means to be a psychopath.

>> Um, it's in some sense it's a subset of. antisocial personality disorder. Um, and. psychopaths tend to be callous and. unemotional. They have difficulty. empathizing with others. Um, they are. very. calm and collected. So if I were to. approach you from behind and you didn't. know I was there and I touched you on. the shoulder, you would probably startle. in some ways. And people who are. psychopaths often don't startle. That's. how calm and cool um they are. There's a.

debate. within the field about how good we are. at identifying juveniles who are going. to become adult psychopaths. Whether we can give people tests that. are reliable enough to make accurate. predictions about the future. And. in general, I think most people in the. field believe that we can't do it we. certainly can't do it with 100%. reliability. >> So in what. Lauren Steinberg is talking about, is.

there a. between the juvenile actions and does. that carry into adulthood? And I I asked. Brian about that to look at himself at. 16 and who was that kid who's obsessed. with violence? And this is what he had. to say about that. >> I feel like there's two people that. there was. the kid I was that brought me here and. that I committed that crime and then. there's who I am now. And I feel like. I'm I'm serving a punishment. that belongs to him, not me.

I feel like all the parts that um. made up me at. 16 were like um disassembled and then. they changed on their own as I got. older. >> So Brian's talking there about his. punishment, life in prison without the. possibility of parole. Both he and Tori. Adamchek got that same sentence. And. there is a divide in the country over. whether that. sentence is appropriate for a teenager, a minor. Should a minor be sentenced to. life in prison without parole? In fact,

in 2012 the Supreme Court ruled that. mandatory juvenile life without parole. sentences violate the Eighth Amendment. It's cruel and unusual punishment. And. 27 states ban it. The court held in in that decision. Miller versus Alabama that juveniles. didn't have the same capacity as adults. Their decision making wasn't fully. formed. The brains themselves weren't. fully formed. Um and we do make allowances in the law.

for minors. >> Mhm. Yeah. I mean there's there's this. idea that. regardless of the crime, however heinous. it is, some people view it as juveniles are not. as morally responsible as adults because. the brain is still forming. In. particular, the teenage male brain is. still forming. And some say don't. complete forming until 25. Now their. studies are saying up to 32. Uh so they. don't have as much control of their. capacities. And that's why they would.

say okay, well because of that, the. cruel and unusual punishment argument is. in play here. Um, but, you know, for. Brian and Tory, this is a tricky idea. It was premeditated. They committed a crime. against a minor, and then there was. attempted cover-up. Both the Drapers and the Adam Checks. believe that at some point they should. have at least the possibility of a.

review. Right now, there is no parole. board, there is no review. No one is. going to talk to them about any release. until the day the day they die. >> Add to that the fact that the law. already makes distinctions for. juveniles. >> Mhm. >> They can't drink alcohol, they can't. vote, they can't serve in the military. Um, so there are there is a school of. thought that says that. we're already making some exceptions. We. recognize that juveniles can't do. certain things. And we spoke to James.

Fox, who's a criminal justice expert, who has long advocated for criminal. justice reform. >> When you look at juvenile killers, and some of the crimes are. horrific, but they're not necessarily hardened. criminals. The reasoning behind the. Supreme Court decisions made lots of. sense [music] that. juveniles may they may look like adults, dress like adults, talk like adults, and. even kill like adults, they think like.

children. They don't have the same level of. maturity. Adults often kill. for clear-cut reasons, jealousy, profit. Kids, well, they often kill for no. reason at all or trivial reasons, a leather jacket, a pair of sneakers, a. challenging glance, emulating movie, [music] or no reason at. all. So even though they may commit the most. heinous of crimes, they are not [music] as morally. responsible.

as adults. >> If you agree with the the idea that, you. know, they're not as morally. responsible. The brain wasn' fully. formed, um then that should apply to. every case. Um but I think even in the. Supreme Court said there are. exceptions. >> There are exceptions. >> There are exceptions. This is this is a tough one to address. As much as Carrie, Brian's father, as. much as he advocates for Brian to have.

some review in the future to show that. he's remorseful, that he's changed his. ways, that he's been a good model. prisoner over the last 20 years, he still struggles with the fact that. Cassie's never going to get a second. chance. >> What people want more than anything. is the opportunity to prove themselves. worthy. of a second chance. If you take that off. the table,

what is life. what is the point? Why not the death sentence? What is the point? You just make any wait to die. in prison? Does that. what does that do? It just prolongs suffering. It just extends it. You just spreading. it out. over more years, more torture, more.

suffering. But at the same time, I will tell you. tell you straight that. do I struggle with that question? I do. because I think immediately about. Cassie's family. Cassie will not get a. second chance, and that's my family's. fault. >> So even his even Brian's strongest. advocate is still unsure what the right. answer is on in this situation. And the. judge, Judge McDermott, when he.

addressed them after sentencing them, he. gave a very specific reason. There was. evidence, a lot of evidence, overwhelming evidence that they were. going to commit more crimes. And that is. his justification is saying, I don't see. a reform in behavior because of the. extent of [music]. their plotting and planning um to commit. more murders. >> The standard uh outlined by the Supreme. [music] Court was irreparable. corruption. And irreparable corruption was the.

standard applied to Tory and Brian and. according to the Appeals Court, they met. that standard. So here's James Fox. again. >> In 2012 in a Miller decision, the. Supreme Court ruled that mandatory life. without parole. was unconstitutional in the case of. juvenile offenders. They did not. rule that. the decision should apply. retroactively. I think it should. And many states, including my own.

Massachusetts, have decided that. the concept. that juvenile should be treated. differently than adults, that not the same as adults. uh should be retroactive. Other states. like Idaho have not made it retroactive. and. I think that's unfortunate. >> So there will be no parole. for Brian and Tory. They're in there. till the day they die. They have now. spent more time in prison than out of.

prison. And you talked to them about. just the day-to-day in there. >> Yes. >> They grew up in there basically. >> grew up in there. Yeah, I. you know, Tory asked me early on when I. talked to him, he's like, have you ever. been inside of a prison? Uh and I said, no, I have not. And I. wanted to find out what it was like. because I think this will illustrate. part of the punishment. So people can see this is what happens. This is what you get when you commit. first-degree murder.

>> How do you describe the um. your physical surroundings. to someone who hasn't been. in where you live? >> Um. >> prison is just a series of. hallways and confined spaces really like. day rooms are. way too small for the amount of people. that are in them. Cells are. basically the size of a small bathroom.

Uh, an example I give to people is. I just ask them to imagine having to. live with your neighbor in your bathroom. for. hours on end. and then just imagine the problems that. are going to arise under those. circumstances. It's just a reminder, but everything's a. reminder. Like waking up in the morning. is a reminder. It's not it's not something that you.

walk away from. Like I'm just stuck. at that worst. that worst decision I made. If you believe my life is worth. redeeming, give me a pathway to redeem. myself. If you don't think my life is worth. redeeming, then. just go the other route and go full. force with it. >> Well, he says go full force. You talk to. him. What do you think he means by go.

full force? >> Capital punishment. >> Execute him. >> Execute him. Yeah. I mean that's that's. that's a a heavy heavy moment from Tory. Just looking at the reality of it. Like. if you're not going to give me the. ability to do anything to put some good. back into society in any way to redeem. what I did to Cassie, what is the point. of me sitting in this cell for the next. 50 years? >> I guess that's the kind of philosophy. that can come from sitting in prison for. 20 straight years having a lot of time.

to think about what you did. >> I mean they they could seemingly spend. 65 years inside a prison. They have not. left that prison in years. When they. were transferred there, Brian was. transferred there at 18 and he's lived. in that same facility ever since. They in fact, Brian and Tory are in the same prison. Um and they they are kept separate. intentionally. I think that's policy uh. if there are two people that are part of. the same crime, they don't want them to.

be mingling too much. But there are a. few opportunities where they see each. other. >> Do they exchange words? Have they said. anything? >> Brian said he saw him one day and he. said he walked up and he said Tory. And he said Tory turned around and. didn't recognize him at first. Um and then he said they had a a. conversation. I think part of it is. there is um. there's some debate on who did what when. and and and Brian said that was still. there. Tory said there's still a debate.

on where the responsibility lies. They. had this they had this conversation. about it. And um. you know what Brian said is. there is no bond. >> Um. nothing, man. I know that. this is going to be an underwhelming. answer, but uh Tory and I are completely. separated. Um. I don't feel anything. different for him than I would for. anyone else here. I don't have an. association with him anymore. I think.

like time has done its thing and we've. grown and. I don't have any animosity towards him. I don't have any hatred towards him. I. think that you know he's living his own. life. I I don't understand him. I never. have. But I'm at the point now where I I don't. need to. I don't care. I don't. not caring is not the right word. I don't need to understand him anymore. I don't feel a need to. to engage in his life. I think that he. has his own life. I have my own life. We're adults now. The kids we were are gone and that bond.

is gone. That's how I see it. >> So on the last day that I was with. Carrie Draper, Brian's. father, he took me out to the prison. where where Brian's been incarcerated. since he was 18 years old. And uh as we sat out there, he was just. gazing out into uh you know, [music] to. the concrete boxes that were off in the. distance. where his son lives. And he he said this to me about where he. is today and where his son is today.

>> I take responsibility. for my children. I raised them. If anybody could have prevented it, it. would have been me and I didn't. I'm to blame. as much as he is. He was a kid. Without a doubt, I would trade my time.

[snorts]. for the freedom. of my son. If I could walk in there and he could. walk out, if I could spend the rest of my life in. there, I would in a moment. if he could come out. >> He's going to live with that for the. rest of his life. I mean, in no way should he take any. responsibility for it. I understand. I'm. a parent. I understand his sentiment. But I I think it's he's he's taking on. too much of a burden. Unfortunately,

yeah, you do take responsibility for. your children and you wonder if I did. something or I didn't do something that. sent them on that path and it's. impossible to know the answer. if if anything that you did somehow just. turned him. >> Or didn't do. >> Or didn't do. Just turned him in that. direction. It's he's just a. tragic figure and and just the burden. that he's carrying every day is is. unbelievable. >> I'm glad you played that clip of. Carrie visiting Brian in prison.

He can go there like you said every. Sunday and visit with his son. When I met with Anna Stoddard, Cassie's. mother, we talked about this. And she and I went to Cassie's grave. And she said. very clearly, they should be in prison. for the rest of their lives. And their parents can go visit them. while they're in prison. I have to go to a graveyard to go see my. daughter. That's what Anna Stoddard.

said. So while I do feel, and I think. anybody watching that would feel some. sympathy for him, let's not forget that Anna Stoddard's. daughter Cassie is in a graveyard. There's no visiting her. >> Yeah, no arguing that. >> So one person, Cassie Jo Stoddard, has. been [music] absent from this story, and. she kind of hovers over this whole. thing. It's her murder. She's the one with no. future. And when you think about.

Cassie Jo, 16 years old, what were we. saying about her? She was nice, everybody liked her. She was good at. drawing. It's kind of a thin story. because the story was just starting. So Cassie didn't have much of a story or. a past, but what she did have was. possibilities. She had a future. She wanted to go to college. She wanted. to be a lawyer. She wanted to be a. prosecutor. Would she have kids by now? Would she. have had a good life, a bad life? Those are the possibilities that she.

had, the future that she had, uncharted. And. her absence is kind of felt throughout. this because it was all taken away by. Brian and Tori. And I think that's something to remember. is that. they have, as grim as it is, a life. But she doesn't, and they are the ones. that took that away. >> Uh. we both felt that the only appropriate. way to end this series is to hear from.

the person who loved Cassie the most, and that uh was her mother, Anna, who. unfortunately passed away in 2022. Here's a little bit more of her impact. statement from 2007. >> My name is Anna Stoddard, and I'm. Cassie's mom. We don't get to see Cassie anymore. [music] Christy doesn't have her sister. anymore. My granddaughter doesn't have her aunt. Cassie. There's a big big big huge empty spot in. our lives.

And that spot's going to be there. forever, that empty spot. You may have killed my daughter, but you. will never take away from me and my. [music] family the memories and the time. that we had together with Cassie. She will live in our hearts. forever. >> [music]. >> If you like this podcast, please make. sure to watch the hit documentary series. The Scream Murder, a true teen horror.

story, now streaming on Hulu and Disney. Plus. >> [music]. [music].