Mr & Mrs Murder

An allnew 2020 starts right now. Normally when an alligator takes down a. deer or a pig or human attacks, maybe. after dark, they normally don't try to eat it at. that point in time. The alligator will take them to the. bottom and drown the person. They store it under a log or in their.

cave or somewhere. They let it decay. before they try to eat it. And then they. come up and do the death roll. [groaning]. It tears the meat off like we would tear. a chicken wing apart trying to eat it. They're just a eating machine.

>> BP market. >> Tallahassee is a very southern town. It does not look like that typical. Florida beach. [music]. It's like old Florida.

[music]. It has been said that Tallahassee is a. big little town. [music]. Let me just start at the beginning. [music]. We all went to high school together. Me. and Brian, Mike and Denise. [music]. >> Oh my god, my hair. >> I have a whole new respect for my wife.

>> We're just totally overwhelmed. [music]. >> We were two perfect little families that. are all best friends. [music]. >> [music]. >> Mhm. >> I always had my family Christmas on a. Saturday before Christmas Day. We would go to South Georgia at my.

granny's farm. Around noon, Denise calls me and [music]. she says, "Do you know where Brian is? Do you know where Mike is? and I say, "No, I don't haven't [music]. heard from anybody this morning.". During hunting season, Brian hunted. nearly every day. It would just be. morning and I would be up and he. wouldn't be there and I would just know. he was hunting.

She says, "Well, Mike had gone hunting. at Lake Simol that morning and they were. supposed to be leaving to go to. Appalachiccola. He told me he'd be back. by noon. She was irritated. Denise and Mike had. planned to take their anniversary trip. out of bed and breakfast. It was kind of. a big deal. I said, "No, I don't know. I. if I hear anything, I'll let you know.". Brian wasn't home by 2:00, so I just. packed up and we just went up to my.

granny's by ourselves. >> [music]. >> Brian got to my granny's between 4:00. and 5:00 and my uncle said to him, "You're in a lot of trouble." Meaning. because he was late, you know, and so I. say to Brian, "Did you ever hear from. Mike today?" And he says, "Well, what. are you talking about?" I said, "Well, Denise had called me and said that Mike. hadn't come back from hunting [music]. yet." And he says, "Oh, I don't know. You know, I didn't go with him this. morning. [music].

We had a great afternoon. Presents are. opened and shortly into all that, Brian. was asleep on the couch. [music] I just rolled my eyes and was. like, "Of course." Shows up late and. then just comes in and falls [music]. asleep. When we got back to Tallahassee, Brian's father called and said, "Mike. hasn't come home at all, and they need.

to go out to the lake to look for him.". And I remember Brian saying to me, "He'll be cold and he'll be beat up, but. he'll be fine.". I went to Denise's house. We all felt. like we were just waiting for him to get. home so we could all just like laugh and. hear what happened. He's going to have. some hilarious story.

Duck hunting typically your ideal. conditions are when it's overcast, wet, really cold, just terrible weather. That's when your ducks are flying the. best and that's usually when I stay home. when it's nice and cold like that. But. Mike had the passion for the outdoors. But he wasn't a real strong swimmer. He. would go by himself. [music] He normally.

would wear his waiters, which is extremely dangerous for a duck. hunter cuz if you fall in, the waiters. fill up with water and you drown. He just wasn't careful enough in my. opinion, but. he wanted to be outside shooting ducks. It was around 72° on Saturday when Mike. went missing.

and then a cold front had come through. and the next morning it was 12°. [music]. >> [music]. >> When I first arrived on scene, Brian. Winchester and his dad found the boat. It was in the weeds over near the. western side of the shore there.

>> We all gathered around, kind of helped. them pull it up. We were thinking Mike. had fallen in, but why was the kill. switch still attached? >> I was able to get in the helicopter. You. know, we're hovering above the lake and. it's a very eerie sight when [music] you. see all these eyes and you know what. those eyes are attached to. [music]. There were 12 alligators swimming all. around these boats. People had no idea.

they were there. Which then gives you a. really foroding [music] feeling of if he. is in the lake, it's not good. Mike had to be out there. He had to be okay. This is Denise and Mike. This [music] is.

This is the two of them. in high school. They seemed so perfect. together. [music]. Completed each other. He was a football player. She was a. cheerleader. I mean, it was just. perfect. All of the boys really wanted [music] to. date Denise. She was very fashionable and she was a. big flirt. Denise [music] came from a very. religious family. >> Let's throw out the prayers.

>> We all had the expectation to be. perfect. >> The angels in heaven deviated from God's. word. >> You were given these rules of conduct. [music]. No drinking, no drugs, [music]. no sex before marriage, no heavy metal. music. things that [music] might be very. typical for a lot of high schoolers. [applause].

[music]. >> Mike was kind of an anomaly on the. football field. He wasn't super. athletic, but he overcame that by just. tenacity. He gave one of the hardest. hits I've ever seen on a receiver in my. life. Most kids are going to jump up and down. and scream and yell and be happy. And. the first thing that Mike did was uh he. was concerned about him. [clears throat]. He kneelled down and started praying for.

him. And uh. I knew right from that day what kind of. person Mike was. >> [music]. >> I met Mike in fifth grade and [music]. we were always just good friends. He was. a little wild and untamed. Mike was loved by everybody. >> Robert resented restraint of any kind. [music]. >> when I was in ninth grade. Brian was a.

senior and so were Mike and Denise and. Kathy. Brian loved Kathy a lot. He was. that one boy who's introverted and then. ends [music] up with the girl who's the. cheerleader. You know, that was me. [music]. I grew up middle class. My parents had a. copy and print shop, the coffee shop. Brian's family was different from ours. I looked at his family. His mom was a.

stay-at-home mom and his dad was a. successful businessman, deacon in the church. [music]. >> That's right. >> Knew lots of people in town. That's what. I wanted. was what I saw in that picture. [music]. Brian and I got married at a country. club in town and it was outside under an. archway. It was beautiful. [music]. I was teaching middle school and Brian.

was working under his father, kind of. like the next generation of Winchester. Financial Group. You know, selling life. insurance. >> What we want you to do is to accomplish. your goal. >> Mike and Denise got married shortly. after us. Within that same year, Mike. [music] was working for Ketchum. Appraisal. We would spend a lot of time with Mike. [music] and Denise. We'd been out of.

college for a year, two years. There was a couple of bars that would. have old wave, so it would be like the. older music, the music that we listen to. in high school. We're starting to drink. It was very exciting and it was fun. It. was fun to go out and go to a bar and. see a band and dance and. all of these kind of like new.

experiences. were things that did not align with the. way we had been raised in the Baptist. church. There was this feeling that this is a. little bit wrong and it made it even. more exciting. as two young married couples were doing. things that kids do when they're in. college. Right.

after years of going out and partying, I. said to Brian, "Well, all right. you. know, this has been fun, but when are we. going to start having kids? I was ready to be a mom, and that's. where the fork in the road was. Mike and. I both wanted to go to the next level. and start our families. Brian and Denise were not ready to let. go of this partying. They didn't want to.

give it up. >> Look at [music] my pretty girl. Is. >> that close up enough for you? >> [laughter]. >> When I realized I was pregnant, I was. sort of what I could just describe as. full. >> It was the beginning of this dream that. I'd had. >> Brian wasn't ready to be a dad. [music].

He's like, "Okay, Kathy has what she. wanted. So now I can sort of do whatever. I want.". >> Mom is sad. [music]. >> Happy birthday [singing] to you. >> At this point, Brian and I have been. married for 6 years. >> What is all this about? We had grown so. far apart and weren't even being. intimate.

>> Denise and I spent a lot of time on the. phone. She would confide in me about. things going on between her and Mike. Mike has been pulling out of this. forsome that we were. He was just done. with partying and was enjoying being a. father. For Denise's 30th birthday, the four of.

us were going to go to Panama City. Denise came, but Mike was not with her. I knew what it would be. It would be. drinking and it would be dancing. I don't have a lot of clear memories of. everything that happened in Panama City. I know that there was a lot of alcohol. Brian took some pictures of me and.

Denise sitting on the bed partially. clothed. By today's standards, it wouldn't be. that bad, but it was enough to keep me. in line and keep me guilty. They had spent this time just. encapsulating me in this invisible. bubble, not feeling confident to reach. out to anyone else that I could talk to.

We were driving back to Tallahassee that. night and I can remember just thinking. there had been several times that I. would complain to Mike about Brian and. he said, "Kathy, pack your stuff up and. go back home to your parents.". And I told Brian what Mike had told me. He got worried and confided in Denise. Denise called me and she said, "God.

hates divorce.". That kind of emotional blackmail was. enough to make me back away at the last. minute. on Christmas day. It was it was painful.

to have to pretend that everything's. okay. [music]. There's this unspoken assumption. You. know, I think we were all thinking it, but no one was wanting to talk about it. there in that house [music]. because it's just almost too horrible to. say. >> Brian had this picture that he and Mike. had taken together when they were in. Arkansas on a hunting trip. I framed it. and that's what I gave him for. Christmas.

>> Who gave you this? He opens it. >> and he looks at it. and he says, "Why would you give this to. me? Why would you think I would want. this?". >> After 10 days searching, um, I knew it was a recovery operation.

Since Lake Simol has been here, 103 104. bodies over the years have drowned. Every person that I've been involved in. on Simol that's been in the water, we. have found them. [music]. Mike was 31. [music].

My son's closest friend. He was like a son to me. [music]. There comes a time when reality sets in. that if you can't find him with a. helicopter with infrared, you [music]. know, he's not coming back. That grief. was so so great and so [music] real and. felt by. everybody [music]. who knew Mike and Denise.

It was [music] It was very somber. It. was very upsetting. I. There were three or four of us that were. supposed [music] to speak and um. I I wasn't able to do it. Every year, Winchester Financial Group. would have an annual meeting of all the. agents. Marcus and Brian had compiled a.

presentation that they presented to like. the higherups, >> integrity, friendship, faith, and the. feeling of family. Brian had sold Mike two of the three. life insurance policies that he held. [music]. worth $1.75 million. But in Florida, you had to wait several. years for a missing person to be. declared dead.

Brian's increasingly getting anxious. about this. He felt like it would look really bad if. he had sold this policy to Mike and. Denise. Now Mike is [music] gone, but. the company isn't paying because Mike. technically is just missing. >> I can remember him saying, "We cannot. wait that long. Denise needs that. money." [music]. >> The essence of the Winchester Financial. Group is characterized through this.

heartfelt story of a special client and. a very close and loving family friend. That presentation. was made to convince the board to pay. Mike's life insurance policy without his. body having been recovered. >> He was supposed [music] to return home. that day to celebrate a wedding. anniversary. But the miracle of life insurance. is going to fill a big need, a huge. need.

All of this is starting to just fade. into like a new reality. Between the insurance discussions, between. running the errands for Denise, Brian was totally available to her in a. way that he had never been to me. He was. at that point her night and shining. armor. And I would have conversations with. Brian.

that I wasn't happy. I didn't want to. live like this. I didn't want this kind. of a marriage. I can remember Brian. saying to me, "Who is going to want to. marry you? You're going to be a divorced. single mother with another man's child.". It was incredibly lonely. In June, 6 months after the initial. search, we found a set of waiters.

floating. [music]. A diver from Tallahassee came over and. [music] he dove down in the deeper hole. Within probably 2 minutes, he came up. with a hunting jacket. [music]. One sleeve was turned inside out, you. know, like someone was trying to get it. off. and I put my hand in the pocket and. pulled out a hunting license. [music] It said Mike Williams.

It was just astounding to me that 6. months later, it's been in the water and. I could read his name plain [music] as. day. About 10 ft from where we had marked, the hydrillaa was all turned up. There. had been an alligator there that had. done what they call the death roll where. they just spin and spin and spin. Didn't. find any bones or anything, but just. reinforced what I had seen 6 months ago. Alligators were all over the place. You.

know, he fell out. Uh waiters filled up. He eventually fell out of the waiters. Alligators taken him somewhere and and. stuffed them. Brian's demeanor was relief. because now they can [music] get a death. certificate. and the life insurance was going to be. paid. I remember asking him, "Were the waiters. messed up? If an alligator got him, then.

wouldn't there be bite marks?" And him. saying, "No, he probably got him off. before it happened." I couldn't. understand why anyone believed [music]. that. But I also was coming to the realization. that he is gone. He is gone. One day in March, Brian admits to me. that. for her birthday, Denise had wanted to.

go to the lake. to see where Mike had last been. for the first time. She'd never been. there before. She just wanted me to take her out there. so she could have some private time and. she didn't want anyone to know. And I. said, "Well, why didn't she want me to. know? That that doesn't add up." It was. the first time I had specifically caught. him covering for being with her. You don't expect a man to be having an.

affair with a woman who still wants to. be best friends with the wife. To say that Denise had stabbed me in the. back doesn't even touch it. She had. stabbed me in the soul. It's been almost 3 years since Mike. disappeared.

>> [music]. >> No one can understand how a mother feels. when her heart is broken. [music]. My son is never out of my mind. >> After Mike's dad [music] had passed. away, Cheryl wasn't doing well. And so. when Mike went missing, [music]. that sorrow and uh just just doubled.

[music]. I would see her on the street corner. close to my office on a regular basis. holding the sign of Mike asking if. anybody had seen him. >> Mike's mom [music] started coming to the. church and standing in the front with. the sign. [music]. It seemed really pointed to be at. [music] our church. Why are you out here?

There was missing [music] posters on. every telephone pole from Brian's house. to the office. So that [music] as he. drove to the office, he saw every single. one. My mom was very frustrated driving. around. She would pull over when she saw [music]. a sign and she would, you know, driving. make me get out and pull the sign down. Mike disappeared. [music] Mike is dead. and we're trying to move on. You should, too.

I knew Brian was dating Denise in. secret. At this point, I'm ready to be divorced. In [music] those last couple of weeks. before our court date, he starts saying, "This is what the Bible says about. divorced women.". Using manipulation of the scriptures to. try to stop me from going through with. it.

The day that we were in court to get the. divorce, Brian sat behind [music] me crying, openly crying as if this was breaking. his heart. It was just [music] that last. minute push of manipulation. to try to get me to walk out of there. and not go [music] through with it. But the divorce was final that day.

[music] and I feel good about it. Yeah. Brian and Kathy got divorced and I. remember Denise telling me about. she and Brian. It made sense. Denise lost Mike and. loved Mike. Brian was his best friend. Brian's now divorced. That would be a.

natural fit that really would kind of. heal her heart. [music]. >> Brian loved Kathy. >> Kathy's the one that left. [music]. So Brian and Denise had the green light. to start dating. >> [music]. >> He loved her. He smiled around her a lot. more.

I know [music] that Brian wanted to ask. her to marry him, but Brian told me. Denise wanted to marry a godly man. >> Go forth KNOWING YOU ARE GOD'S. AMBASSADOR. Growing up, we were always in the. church. But around the time Brian was a senior. in high school, he didn't want to go to. church anymore. He was like, "I'm not in. it.". >> In the name of Jesus, our Messiah. Amen.

>> Denise's [music] parents did not like. that about my brother. Brian was not. godly enough for her. And so, he did go. through a big religious experience. [music]. Brian got in the pool and [music] they. asked you to tell your story as to why. you became a Christian. He said, "I ran. my life to the ground [music]. and I cried out to God and you know, God.

forgave me of all of my sins and. [music]. I'm here to be baptized as a public. display. [music]. And like I cried. I was super excited. that Brian was going to be back in the. church. [music]. And that also really made Denise very. happy that Brian was baptized again.

>> [music]. >> Brian and [music] Denise were married. and it was very fairy tale. They were incredibly [music] happy to be. together. Brian moved into the house that Mike had.

bought. It was weird. you know, your closest friend, you loved. him like a brother, but yet you were. able to marry his wife, move into this home. I was talking with Denise's sister at. the time, and she told me the bedroom. set was the same set that had been.

[music] Mike's bedroom set. It's so. creepy. So nice. >> Everything that I had seen right after. Mike was gone, everything I'd observed, everything I. had questions about, I had all these puzzle pieces and I just. couldn't seem to make anything fit.

What I didn't know that Cheryl had been. doing for those years was she had been. trying very hard to get an investigation. ramped up, get anybody just to look into. what could have possibly happened to her. son. I got a phone call from Derek Wester. from the Jackson County Sheriff's. Department and he said, "Miss Cheryl has. given me your name and phone number and. I would like to talk to you.".

>> Yeah. There was a lot of speculation. [music] at the time that he had run off. that he got eaten by an alligator. So, she comes over and she gives us her. version of what happened on the day of. Mike's [music] disappearance. >> I told Derek that when I woke up that. morning, [music] Brian was gone. As far as I knew, he was hunting cuz. it's duck season. I didn't know where he. was hunting. I didn't know who he was. going with.

Brian wasn't home by 2:00. So, I just. packed up and we just went up to my. granny's by ourselves. Brian got to my granny's between 4:00. and 5:00. Shortly into all that, Brian was asleep on the couch. We contacted Brian. We wasn't. necessarily interrogating him. We were. just talking to him. He [music]. explained that he woke up at 10:00 in.

the morning, went out yard, played with. his dogs, and then him and Kathy and. their child got in his truck and drove. to Kathy's family's Christmas gathering. in Cairo, Georgia. That's what he told us. Brian and Kathy gave us both different. versions of where they were at. So, uh, we asked him, you know, just to.

clear things up, would would you agree. to a polygraph? He said, "Absolutely.". Maybe the next day, maybe the day after, I get a call. And he said, "Sir, I'm representing Brian Winchester here. He's not going to participate and he's. not going to take no polygraph. He's. he's gave you a statement. They miss him. They love him. And please. respect our privacy.

My first knowledge of the Mike Williams. case was when my wife and I were looking. for a daycare. My wife got word about Miss Cheryl. So, we [music] went and saw her. It was like. the perfect setting. She was like a. grandma. She was old school. [music] That's when Miss Cheryl was. like, "You know, what do you do?" And I. said, "Well, I'm an ATF agent. Then she just let it rip. She told me. the details about Mike, about the case.

I mean, it's just it's jacked up. And. there's good [music] jacked up and. there's bad jacked up and that's bad. jacked up. And I was like, well, it's a. no-brainer. I was like, your son's not. missing. I mean, hell, somebody killed. him. But in ATF's world, it has to be firearm. related. I mean, I just basically told. her I couldn't get involved because I. had no skin in the game. Miss Cheryl told me about a handgun. It belonged to her husband that had not.

been returned by Denise and Brian. So, it was a crapshoot from the get-go, but. I was willing to run with that because. it was an ungoded handgun. >> [music]. >> I had these two gentlemen come in to the. coffee shop and they were dressed in. suits and ties. This is very serious. It's not a how do you do? Nice to meet. you. It's not a friendly welcome.

>> I mean, you know, the thing you got to. think about is that you're going in to. talk to this woman that used to be. married to one of your prime suspects. and that's the father of her child. >> So, you know, my experience typically. would be, you know, I'm I'm going to be. met with some pretty high resistance. >> He says to me, you are going to have to. decide right now whose side you're going. to be on. This train is leaving the. station and either you're going to be on. it or you're not. And I was like, "Okay,

okay. I I understand that and I'm. willing to help you." He asked me if I. knew if Mike had a handgun. I said to. him, "Yes, he did have a handgun. He. kept it in his nightstand.". >> I was taken back by, you know, her. eagerness to help. >> I believe that Brian and Denise have. done something to Mike. and [music] I'm watching them just live. this life happy, carefree. They've got.

the golden goose, right? They've got the. life insurance money. Josie being on the. case, it was just [music] the first time. that I felt like I could see the light. at the end of the tunnel. The goal was to let Brian know this. might have been sleeping, but it ain't. sleeping no more. And hell, I'll take you over here and, you know, show you a freaking fire ant. hill. You step on a damn fire ant hill,

all the damn fire ants come out. You. know what I'm saying? We wanted all the. ants to come out. Brian was very nervous because Josie was. a federal agent. The idea came up for me to have a. meeting with Brian and would I wear a. wire. I was terrified at the thought of that. It was very intimidating.

It doesn't feel safe. But at the same time, I'm like, we're so. close. How can I not do this? What if. this is the only chance I have? And what. if Brian is close to cracking? Today's Friday, December 14th, 2007.

This would be a recorded conversation. between [music]. >> Kathy Thomas and Brian Winchester. >> Kathy was going to meet with Brian. It would have to be a secure location, a. location that is public, daylight hours, easily accessible by us. You know, all. the things that would lead to the safety. of Kathy. >> Um Kathy, if you want to put this in in. your in your purse. >> Okay. What is this? >> That's so we can hear everything. >> Okay. >> Okay. I am terrified I'm going to mess.

this up, you know, because I don't know. what I'm doing. [music]. >> The key here is is that Brian never. really knew what Kathy remembered. Our goal as law enforcement was to have. this meeting [music] where Brian would. start quizzing her about what she. remembers. Kathy. was going to be very vague and the goal. was for Brian to to implicate himself, you know, to say, "Okay, well, you need.

to say I was here till 6:00 or. whatever." That's what we needed. >> Can I ask you a couple questions? >> You can ask. >> When is everybody saying that I showed. up at your granny's? I mean, what you say. is going to make a huge difference in. all of this.

>> I know what I remember. I don't know. what anybody else has said. >> What do you. >> What do you remember? I know what I. remember. You don't remember? >> I thought we wrote it again. >> Well, then [music] maybe you're the one. with the bagging ring. cuz I know what I remember. >> Can't even tell me when I showed up. supposedly.

>> All right, I'm going. back up cuz I don't want to run over. your foot. >> Okay. As we continued the pressure [music]. with the case, I remember getting a. phone call from Denise's attorney. And. he was like, "Hey, you know, we'll turn. that handgun over to you." So, we'd. freaking quit what we were doing. Without the handgun, we didn't really. have, you [music] know, a dog in the. fight. Skin of the game. Our nexus was.

gone. >> Josie said, "Kathy, [music] I'm going to. be off the case." You know, it was. disappointing if Josie had been able to. stay on him. Who knows? >> The ant was out of the antill, man. You. know, and it just it just like that, you. know, just went away. I was on pens and needles all the time, just constantly agitated.

Agitated because nothing's [music]. happening with the investigation. I didn't know what he had done. I didn't. know what Denise had done. I just knew. that they were at peace. And that meant they knew what happened. to Mike. If that means where he is, how. he died, they knew. They had peace with it.

The rest of Tallahassee did not. I would. always go back to as long as they're. together, nothing's going to happen. This is where the good stuff starts. It. started out on the baseball field and. Denise comes walking over. and so even [music] though we had been. through all of the bad years,

we had been friends [music] before. down. all the way so we could see your face. >> Okay. How about this? >> There was a familiarity there between. us. Yeah. [music]. >> As time goes on, there would just [music] like be this. slow warming of that friendship. [music]. As if we had just left the past in the.

past and picked up where we left off. I. had to suppress all of those feelings of. her betrayal. because my new goal is bigger than. whatever I felt before. My new goal is to find out what happened. to Mike. I knew Brian knew what the true story. was,

and I suspect [music]. Denise did, too. But as long as they're together, it's. it's never going to be solved. And. [music] that's what was happening. I did not have any faith in law. enforcement. [music]. So, this is it. This is all I've got. left is to try to get close to her again. and break them up.

Brian was always an. I never thought he was capable of. murder. And also, there's no way that Denise. would remotely plot to hurt Mike. So, I'm starting to see things are.

brewing in their marriage. Denise started opening up to me about. how he was not easy to live with. So, that's where we got. I was in this position that I had waited. for. I am her go-to girl. Like, she trusts. me.

As the months go [music] on, Brian is pretty much becoming the same. husband to her as he had been to me. Denise spent hours on the phone talking. to me about how controlling he was. >> [music]. >> He would hack into her phone to read her. text, but she felt like he was watching her.

all the time. [music]. >> Want your room to be and however you. want to design the Are you videoing. this? >> What are you doing? >> I was playing my phone. >> Why would you play with your phone? >> Okay. What? Where? Whatever I want my. what? Wherever you would want your room. to be downstairs with however much wall. space or wherever you would want it to. be. Okay, then you would design that. You would pick that. I would not care. because my bedroom will be upstairs and. so you're not going to be messing with. my bedroom. Brian and Denise had bought.

a house together and they were going to. move into it, but Denise wouldn't leave the house that. she lived with with Mike. >> You're supposed to be excited. But I just realized I'm not getting any. of this. >> Oh my god. >> They fought a lot. She started confiding in me. about how he never worked [music].

about um the money he wanted to spend. He's um drinking. He's taking drugs. He's going out to bars. I tried to seem sympathetic, >> but it definitely brought me a lot of. satisfaction [music]. when she would talk to me about the. things that he was doing. You're you get what you deserve. Like I.

felt like she deserved it. [music]. Denise and I [music] have a disagreement. and I leave to my office and I look at. Craigslist ads and fantasize [music]. about hookers and cheating. Somehow later, Denise finds us on my. computer.

[music] During all of this, the Mike. Williams investigation, accusations, witch hunt went on, which shamed and. isolated both of us, and I medicated [music] all that shame. and pain through sex. Brian's parents had a mobile home that. was on a piece of property at Lake. Amonia in Tallahassee. Denise was concerned that he would have.

prostitutes, parties, and very bad things going on in. there. She was realizing. this is a man who is going to hurt me. Friday, we got into an argument [music]. and I lost it.

I grabbed her by her arms and pushed her. up against a door, [music] screaming, "I. can't take it.". I saw how [music] she was scared, so I. let her go and she ran out. She was like, "Get out.". She. bagged up all of his clothes and put. them in the back of his truck. I did feel a lot [music] of satisfaction. that they were imploding.

because [music]. now it's Brian versus her. I was hopeful that [music] if Denise. divorced Brian, she would open up and. tell me what had happened to Mike. [music]. It made him crazy. It made him crazy that she wanted a. divorce. And literally, he couldn't stop.

it. This man was not going to let Denise. be free of him. You know, he would do anything. to have her [music]. and then he got her. So, in the morning of August 5th, I'm at.

home and it's just sort of a regular. morning. I got a call from Denise's sister. She tells me Brian had kidnapped Denise. She said they're looking for Brian. This. was outside the realm of what I would. have imagined he was capable of. What is. he doing? What is he doing? >> What's your name? >> Denise Winchester.

Just give me a run that what happened. today. >> I walked out of my house about 9:10. and then I pulled out on the Mississippi. road. Ryan was in the back, I guess, hiding. And then when he came out, he came up to. right behind me. He's screaming. You're going to do what. I say or I'm going to hurt you.

and he pulled out a gun and he put it. right in my ribs because with this you. will turn. He was crazy. And he took the wheel and was trying to. force it to turn and I don't know how. but I just like took the wheel back. I. mean I and the fact that we didn't wreck. was unbelievable. So then I pulled into CVS. [clears throat]. Like I knew cuz I go there all the time.

that there are cameras there and he was. like, "You won't answer my text. You. won't I had to do this because you won't. answer my text or my calls. Um, please. just call the divorce off. I've lost. everything.". [music]. He was crazy. And I said, "Brian, I will not call the. police. I promise." Ridiculous to find. out was like, "I'll drive you to your. truck.". And so when I did that and then I pulled. up then he started pulling stuff out of.

the back and shoving it into a backpack. and I saw sheets. I want to say plastic. And then he pulled out something else. like a tool or something. Not a hammer. but something like that. And he shoved all that in the in the. backpack. Then he had a bottle which it. was like you know those old timey bleach. bottles that are like white with the. sprayer thing a huge one.

There was always speculation. that. Brian Winchester and Denise Williams. somehow were involved in the. disappearance of Mike. This was our opportunity to get. information related to to Mike's. disappearance. Denise,

he was going to kill you. And for. whatever reason, he didn't go through. with it. He brought that stuff using to. cover his tracks. But I'm not going to. sit here and sugarcoat stuff, [music] okay? But you've been living in. a crazy life forever. And you finally. had enough to get out. I know. I know, Denise. He did it. And you know exactly what I'm. talking about. I don't think you had. anything ever whatsoever to do, but he. held that over your head forever.

He has ruined your life. He was going to. kill you so that you couldn't talk about. him later. That is the truth. I've been in this too. long. 15 years ago, he walked in and told you. he'd done something. [snorts]. >> Denny, >> no. >> Denise, >> no. After the kidnapping, she was very.

concerned [music] for their safety. We were hoping that she would have. something. that she would have told us that would. have implicated. Brian the disappearance. >> Think about the man who brought. something to bury you with, who brought. plastic, who brought. bleach to cover his tracks. It Why. doesn't it make sense? He's nuts. He killed your husband. But he okay if.

he is not that crazy then again what I. can't have a officer live with me 24/7. I can't I'm not safe. >> He goes to prison for murder. You'll. never see him again. He killed. [clears throat] Mike. and he buried Mike where no one can ever. find him. >> We thought that we were getting pretty. close to Denise saying something. Let me. go see what they're doing. >> Everybody was ready for that. that point. in time where she gave us something with.

a little meat left on the bone that we. can run on. >> Hey, how you doing? >> Good. How are you? >> Fine. >> Finally, special agent Michael Deainy. went in to try to elicit something out. of Denise. I. >> I want to talk to you about a couple of. things and maybe you can fill in a. couple of gaps for me. Can Can you do. that for me? [music]. >> I can try. >> Okay.

>> Where do you think Mike's buried at? >> Oh, I I have no idea. >> Any speculation on that? >> On where he's buried? >> Buried. >> I mean, I believe. >> You don't really believe he he died at. on the lake. >> I do. >> Why? >> I just I just always have. That's what I. believe. I mean, this was your this was your. husband. He simply vanished.

Hopefully, you still have an interest in. this. >> This is my priority right now and I'm. just I'm not comfortable talking about. this right now. This I've had an. unbelievable day and. >> this is this is it's just all too much. right now. >> She was pretty closed off. All business, kind of cold, very focused. on what had happened to her that. morning. >> Do you think he's responsible for life's.

disappearance? >> I do not. And I never have. I would have. never buried him if I thought that. >> I'm I want I'm going to leave on this. note. I was hoping you could fill in. some of the pieces of that puzzle. You. haven't. We arrested Brian. He might. >> Okay. >> Yeah, that party. >> Well, just think about that. >> Okay.

>> Brian got arrested at [music] the. office. A SWAT team showed up. Brian Winchester is accused of. kidnapping [music]. Denise Merrill Williams. And everybody. who knows anything at all about this. case knows that this is a big big. moment. Brian and Denise were no longer. a unit. They were no longer a united. force.

So if the theory, as law enforcement had. always said, that one has [music] to. turn on the other, it seemed clear that this was right for. that. Denise, I can tell that she is nervous. She was very afraid that Brian was going. to come for her if he got out.

But then we heard that Brian was going. to do a plea deal. So there wouldn't be. a trial. He would just plead [music]. guilty to it. Start by stating your name, please. >> Denise Williams. >> Your honor, I'm here today to ask you to. [music] sentence Brian Winchester to the. maximum penalty under the law for the. crimes that he committed against me on. August the 5th, 2016.

[snorts] He took my sense of security. and safety from me. I live each day with. the fear of his retaliation for my. [snorts] decision to tell. He will finish what he has started, no. matter [snorts] what age he is when he. is released. For all of these reasons, I'm [snorts] asking you to sentence him. to life in prison for the crimes he has. committed. It comes down to my life or. his. [snorts] And I'm asking you, please.

choose mine. Thank you. >> [snorts]. >> Mr. Winchester, based upon your plea in. this case, and I do adjudicate you. guilty. I sentence you to 20 years, Department of Corrections. >> From my perspective, 20 years and doing. something to Denise wasn't what he. should be in prison for. There was sort. of this feeling of. dread. Now, I didn't know if we would ever find.

out what happened to Mike. Over. half of my career was involved with the. Mike Williams case with a cold case. Sometimes you're just waiting for. someone to finally step up and say, "Hey, I know something I've been sitting. on for a long time.". With this case, the idea was always. we're waiting for that one crack, you. know, be it either with Denise or Brian.

One day I went to go visit Brian in jail. and [music] he told me I'll be in big. trouble unless I tell him. unless I tell him what I know about. Mike. I snapped the minute he said Mike's name. because I'm like you know where he is. You know what happened and you have kept. it quiet for 17 years. I said that. mother has every right to know where her. son is. The state were doing everything.

they could to get all the evidence they. wanted from Brian about Mike Williams. And so we started. negotiating a deal. We built up this agreement that anything. he gave him about Mike Williams couldn't. be used against. >> We offered immunity on anything to do. with the Mike Williams case if he had. information leading to [music] a. prosecution or to a body. We received a phone [music] call from.

the state attorney's office asking us if. we could be in their office that. afternoon. That's when we were told that. Brian was going to give a statement. It's uh 2:12 on October 9th, 2017. This is Ty Sparkman, Investigator, State Attorney's Office. We're here to. take a profit from uh Brian Winchester. [sighs] You want a lot of background or. >> I know you said you could know where the. body is. Weird location wise. Can.

[music] you tell us where it is? Look at a map. Is that Gardener Road? Yeah. >> Car Lake. Yeah. After receiving [music] new information, FDLE's crime scene unit and special. agents spent days conducting an. extensive search. [music]. along the shoreline. There's kind of a.

slope. It's grown up with trees and all kind. of, you know, vegetation. [music]. He's along that slope, which is probably. underwater right now. That [music] search led to the recovery. of human remains. And FDLE's crime. laboratory analyst confirmed that the. human [music] remains are those of Mike. Williams.

It was [music] in here where we finally. found the grave. [music]. 17 years did not hide how Mike Williams. died. Forensic [music] analysis concluded that. Mike Williams was in fact murdered. Our focus has shifted to bringing those. responsible for his death to justice and. we will not stop until that is done. >> At that point, all the public knew is.

that we had recovered Mike Williams. body. They didn't know how we did it. They didn't know when we did it. Can you. say why? >> We didn't want to tip our hand as to. what we had because it would greatly. impede us from further investigation and. charging anyone else that was. responsible for his death. >> Thank you very much. >> [music].

>> Special Agent Will Michael called me and. I asked him what happened. Did he suffer? You know, in those last moments, I think Will just kind of didn't have. the heart to tell me in that moment. Mike's body had been found in close. proximity to areas that I'd spent a lot.

of time hunting. So, it was it was. pretty gut-wrenching. to know that for seven or eight years I. so I sat [music] probably 75 to 100. yards. from Mike's body uh from my best friend. So, it was u. that was a tough day.

Prior to the press conference, I was. assigned to go speak with Denise. Her eyes got a little tearary, but that. was all. [music] If this was a loved one of mine, I would want to know, you know, where. and how did you find him and how do you. know it's Mike? She didn't ask anything about it.

>> As the months go on, I started to feel. frustration. I had expected someone to be arrested. for what happened to Mike. I knew it was either Brian or Denise. I'll say that. I didn't think it was. anybody else, but I just didn't know.

which one of them had done it. I felt they were both capable of it. She. knew how to shoot a shotgun and there. was a shotgun in the home. Whatever it was, I knew that Denise knew. what happened.

>> [music]. [music]. >> Will Michaeler calls me and he said, "Kathy, I just wanted to let you know. that Denise has been arrested. cuz she killed Mike. >> Did you and Ryan plan to have him. killed? Do you have anything that you want to. say to Cheryl.

>> or anything you want to say at all? >> After all of these years, that was the. first time I'd ever like put a question. to Denise. Authorities arrested a widow, Denise. [music] Williams, for her husband's. murder nearly 20 years ago. Authorities. only [music] found his remains 5 months. ago. They just arrested Denise.

God, even at all this, it's just [music]. so surreal. It just made no sense. It was unbelievable. for Mike. I felt relief. [sighs]. Such a relief.

A trial has started involving a. Tallahassee woman accused of plotting. her husband's death. 48y old Denise. Williams faces life in prison for her. former husband's murder and an 18-year. long cover up. >> Miss Williams is charged with conspiracy. to commit first-degree murder. Uh. firstdegree murder and accessory after. the fact of firstdegree murder. Your. honor, this time stay with Brian. Winchester.

>> Mr. Winchester. Did you and Denise. become an item, I guess, if you will, prior to 2000? >> Yes, sir. >> When was that? >> The date that we used was uh October. 13th, 1997. >> Then it snowballed really fast. We started meeting whenever we had the. opportunity and [music] having sex very. regularly. We spent a lot of time.

together. >> At some point, were there thoughts. of how you and Denise could be. [clears throat] together? >> Yes, sir. We eventually started talking. about options and ways that we could be. together. And. Denise, because of the way she was. raised, she did not want to get.

divorced. >> Which narrowed the options? >> Who narrowed those options? >> I instigated a lot of it. I I helped. come up with ideas, but overall it was. very mutual. We wanted to be together. and we weren't going to let anything. stop that. >> What was one option?

>> One of the options was Mike and I going. on a hunting trip together. and there being an accident where he. drowned and and I did not. [music]. we could feel better about ourselves if. there was a a chance that he could make. it out of it. You know, well, it'll be up to God uh. what happens and not us. It won't be a. murder. It'll be, you know, an accident.

>> Talk about life insurance policies. >> He and I talked about increasing his. coverage. >> And whose idea was it? It was a. combination of Denise and I talking. about him having more coverage and he. eventually, I think with Denise's. encouragement, decided to go ahead and. get that extra million dollar policy. >> It was a plan made. steps that kill Mike.

>> Yes, sir. >> [music]. >> The plan was that all this would occur. very early in the morning. I had told him that we were going to go. to a secret special spot to go hunting.

We headed out and there was a deep area. I got him to to stand up and when he. did, I pushed him into the water. >> What happened next? He was like struggling. What I eventually realized was he was.

taking his waiters and jacket off. That area of the lake had a lot of dead. trees that come up out of the water. and he swam over one of those stumps and. held on to it. and he was panicking and I was panicking. and none of this was like going how I.

thought it was going to go. and I didn't I didn't know what to do. but um. he was he started to yell. And I didn't know I didn't know. [laughter] I didn't know how to get out. of that situation.

And so I had my gun in the boat. and uh. so I loaded my gun. and I just [clears throat]. I made one or two circles around. and I ended up.

circling closer towards him. and he was in the water. and as I passed by. I shot him. >> Where did you shoot him? >> In the head. I knew I couldn't leave him there being. shot.

I reached down. and he wasn't far under the water and I. grabbed a hold of him. and. [sighs and gasps]. I drugg him in the water. and ended up putting him in the back of. my Suburban. I was just panicked as to getting out of. that area and covering this up. The plan was for his death to occur, but.

it was not for it to occur in the way. that it did. And I didn't want to tell. Denise that. It was not easy and it was. not pretty. Um, but I had to make it happen. I mean, I had no choice. I guess I imagined that Mike's last. moment wouldn't have been the way it.

was. Mike knew that Brian was the one doing. that to him. And Mike [music] loved Brian like a. brother. My heart just broke. >> When you shot Mike Williams at Lake. Seminal with the 12 gauge shotgun, was. Denise Williams standing there with you? >> No, she wasn't. She was in my head. behind me. >> She was in your head. >> Mhm.

>> Is it fair to say that over the years. you've been obsessed with Denise. Williams? >> Denise and I were best friends. We were. Bonnie and Clyde. We were partners in. crime. In this case, we're blaming Denise for. some idea, some unproven idea. about her involvement in the murder of. Mike Williams. That is based solely on. the testimony of the person who did the. killing. >> The penalty for the armed kidnapping his.

life in prison, isn't it? >> Yes, sir. >> And you made a deal with the government. not to get that life sentence. >> Um, you're terming it a deal. It was a. proper agreement. The way Brian. described the events of Mike's murder, it would have made him eligible for the. death penalty. But once they got the. body, he could never be prosecuted for. murder because that was protected by the. immunity deal. It was the niece that the. government was trying to prove that she.

wanted him killed for the insurance. money. Sometimes you have to make a deal. with depth to get the one you think. should be prosecuted. Mr. Winchester, you're a murderer. Isn't. it true? >> Yes, sir. >> Mr. Winchester, you're a liar. Isn't it. true? >> Yes, sir. >> I have nothing else, your honor. >> Brian's friends, family, law enforcement. are on the lake looking for him. And 19.

days later, she's filing for insurance. payment $1.25 million. That's a cold. individual. That's a person that's. involved in a homicide. Think back. three days ago. Brian Winchester is on. the stand [snorts]. describing how he shot his best friend. Everybody [clears throat]. in this entire room was moved [music] by. the sheer horror of that situation. Just.

one person. That one person sat here absolute. [music] stonefaced. didn't bat an eye, didn't shed a tear. >> I [music] was watching the jurors and. they were pretty riveted to what Brian. was saying. And they were looking across. the room at the defendant's table and. they're [music] not seeing Denise having. really much reaction at all. And they're. making decisions based on what they see. in here.

[music]. [music]. I'm informed we have a verdict. [music] State of Florida versus St. Denise Williams. We the jury find it. pause. >> And I get a [music] text and the text. says, "Kathy, thank God.". I knew just what those three words. meant.

>> Count one of the indictment. The defendant is guilty of conspiracy to. commit first-degree murder. [music]. As to count two, we the jury find the. defendant is guilty of first-degree. murder. Count three of the indictment, the. defendant is guilty of accessory after. the fact of firstdegree murder.

>> [music]. >> What. just happened? I had a guttural reaction. When I go to bed at night and I try to. go to sleep, I see Michael clinging [music] to that. stump in the lake. and I hear him calling, "Help! Help!".

There's no good that comes out of this. for anyone at all. But like after 18. years, you know, to get a resolution. like this, that's something. >> Cheryl's more deserving of some kind of. justice and some sort of peace than any. any person I know. >> He killed his best friend point blank. [music]. to get the woman he always wanted. and then in the [music] ultimate.

ultimate chess move. took a plea bargain and said, "But she. had me do it and [music] put her away. for the rest of her life.". >> Miss Williams sent you to life in. prison. >> A Tallahassee woman was sentenced to. [music] life in prison this morning for. masterminding the murder of her husband. more than 18 years ago. >> It's over. And I didn't even know all the. specifics, but I knew I knew that she had been.

found guilty. The only people in my opinion who know. what truly happened are [music] Brian. and Mike. And Mike's dead. And Brian. said what he's going to say. I firmly believe that there is more. [music] to the story than what Brian has. told. [bell]. From the get-go, there was kind of a a.

lack of imagination that these [music]. nice people from these nice families, you know, churchgoing people could ever. play a role in something that was so. awful and, you know, nefarious, right? The idea that Denise would rather see. her husband killed than have the shame. of getting a divorce. >> That just seems crazy, right? >> Denise had a choice. They could have got. a divorce. As embarrassing and as.

horrible as that would be in the Baptist. church. Mike could have lived. He could. have had a regular life. She could have gone on and had a regular. life and nobody lived like this. Do you. think justice was served? >> No. >> Justice wasn't served because my brother. is not convicted of murder.

[music]. Nobody's [music] officially charged with. his murder. One person is charged with kidnapping. One person is charged with conspiracy to. commit murder. [music] That was the only. way. You know, they would never got the body. And Denise [music] would still be out. running free. And you know, I guess. that's the best outcome you could hope.

for. [music]. This is the only way to get closure for. his family. [music]. I did it. [gasps]. I know that's what Mike's going to tell. me one day when I see him again. [music]. He's going to tell me I did a good job.

>> [music]. >> And that's our program for tonight. Thanks for watching. I'm David Mure. >> and I'm Deborah Roberts. From all of us. here at 2020 and ABC News, good night.