McStays Episode 4: Questions and Answers

Hi, this is Ashleigh Singh here with. another weekly episode of our latest. true crime series from 2020 and ABC. audio, What Happened to the McStay's? Remember, you can get new episodes. weekly on Tuesdays if you follow What. Happened to the McStay's on Apple. Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or. wherever you're listening now. Or you can hear the entire series right. now ad-free by subscribing to 20/20 True. Crime Plus on Apple Podcasts. Click the. link in the description to start your. free trial today.

Now, here's the next episode of What. Happened to the McStay's. >> October 22nd, 2014. Almost a year after. the bodies of the McStay family were. found brutally murdered in the Mojave. Desert. >> We're following up on the McStay case. We've been working this case, you know, we obviously. >> The San Bernardino County Sheriff's. detectives called Chase Merritt in for. an interview. >> We've been working this case nonstop, you know, we're trying to follow up on. everything. >> Detective Eddie Bautista and his.

colleague Matt Chase Merritt in a small. interview room at the San Bernardino. headquarters. Chase wore a low white baseball cap and. sat sideways on a hard chair. He'd first been interviewed by police. almost 4 years ago. Just days after the. McStay's went missing. Back then, he told San Diego detectives. that he and Joseph were friends. Best. friends. And 4 years later, this story hadn't.

changed. >> [music]. >> We talked every day, sometimes many, many times a day around the phone. Um. >> [music]. >> we. >> Chase told San Bernardino detectives. that he and [music] Joseph often played. paintball together. And he had helped. the family move into their new house in. [music] late 2009. >> And. two or three big vans. >> Mhm. >> I helped them pack them. I'm I helped. move all of the potted plants and stuff.

>> Chase added that Joseph going [music]. missing hadn't just been an emotional. loss for him. His entire welding business had [music]. depended on Joseph. >> When he disappeared, my life went it was. just pretty much turned upside down. I. mean, it was. we lost everything. >> Right. >> I was just trying to find a. making me trying [music] to figure out. you know, where I was going to go.

>> To hear Chase tell it, he had lost his. friend and his livelihood in one fell. swoop. But unbeknownst to Chase, San Bernardino. investigators felt that they had found. evidence. that told a different story. >> [music]. >> In re-interviewing the McStay family and. friends, digging into old case files, and. uncovering [music]. new evidence, detectives had discovered reason to.

believe. there was more to the story Chase was. telling. And [music] now, they were ready to ask him some. difficult questions. >> Did you kill the McStay family? >> [music]. >> From ABC Audio in 2020, I'm Arash Singh, and this is what happened [music] to the. McStays. Episode 4, Questions and Answers.

Before San Bernardino detectives brought. Chase Merritt in for an interview, they dug through the files they'd gotten. from San Diego Sheriffs, and they began to find new details that. they say raised red flags about Chase. Among the things they looked at was the. transcript of a 2010 police interview. with Chase. And one thing in particular jumped out. at San Bernardino detective Ryan Smith. >> When he interviewed with San Diego,

he referenced the family in the past. tense several times saying, "Oh, he was. my best friend." Like that's. people don't say that. >> San Diego detectives had questioned. Chase about why he used the past tense. "Oh, I did?" Chase replied. Chase told them that he didn't know why. And the detectives didn't push him on. it. Back then, it was a missing person's. investigation. But now, San Bernardino detectives were.

investigating multiple homicides. San Bernardino investigators suspected. this choice of words could mean that. Chase knew, even in the immediate aftermath of their. [music] disappearance, that the McStays. were already dead. Another key moment that San Bernardino. detectives zeroed in on. >> [music]. >> was the day the McStays went missing, February 4th, 2010. >> [music]. >> A neighbor's security camera had.

captured a grainy, dark video of a. vehicle leaving the driveway of the. McStays house in Fallbrook. A San Diego detective who investigated. the missing person's case in 2010 told. ABC News that the vehicle had looked. like the McStays car, a white Isuzu. Trooper, though they couldn't be sure. >> [music]. >> But when detective Ed Bachmann and his. team reviewed the footage, they spotted something. interesting. >> When we looked took a a deeper dive into. the video, um we were able to find key.

markers on that video that it wasn't the. Trooper. >> The exhaust pipe on the McStays car. stuck out on the back left side of the. vehicle. But investigators thought that the. vehicle in this video had an exhaust. pipe on the back right side. To Bachman and his team of. investigators, this looked more like the exhaust pipe. [music] of a utility truck. And at that time, Chase Merritt drove such a truck. A boxy white one.

>> Why would Chase's vehicle be leaving the. McStay residence, you know, on the night. that they [music] did disappear? >> The McStays' home wasn't the only place. that Chase was suspected to have been. during that crucial window of time. Three months after the McStays' bodies. were found in the desert, detectives. pulled Chase's cell records. They showed who he called, when he.

called them, and the cell towers his. phone was pinging off around the time. the McStays disappeared. >> We were fortunate that Chase had a new. iPhone. iPhones had just kind of come on. the scene in 2010. And he had a an. iPhone with a AT&T service that provided. cell sites. A lot of the other cell. phones didn't do that. It would give us. their city, it would give us a general. location, but Chase's cell phone. provided us latitude and longitude. coordinates of where towers were and.

where calls were being made. >> According to a police report, the phone. records backed up Chase's claim that he. and Joseph talked on the phone a lot. From February 1st to February 4th, the. men spoke more than 15 times a day. Investigators determined that after the. McStays went missing, the volume of. calls dropped off. Chase only called Joseph 11 times. between February 5th and February 9th.

And he made no calls to Joseph [music]. after that. This struck Detective Bachman as. strange. >> [music]. >> He just stops calling him. Um that's not. characteristic, especially if you're as. [music] close of friends as what you. say, Uh uh, then you would think that. you would be more eager to try to help. out and try to find the family [music]. and I think his activity proved. otherwise. >> According to the detective's report, >> [music]. >> the location of Chase's phone in the. days after their disappearance also. revealed something notable.

His phone had pinged off a cell tower in. Victorville [music]. in the area where the bodies had been. buried on February 6th, two days [music]. after the McStays went missing. >> Okay, is there a reason that he was. here? >> [music]. >> Um, or. you know, or is he here because he's. burying bodies? >> The phone records also revealed periods. where Chase's phone showed no activity. For detectives, these blackouts were.

also intriguing. In their report, detectives indicated. that on February 8th, four days after. the McStays went missing, Chase's phone was turned off from 7:30. a.m. to 1:30 p.m. And detectives developed a possible. theory as to why. According to their report, detectives. thought that Chase had driven the. McStay's car, their white Isuzu Trooper, to the US-Mexico border.

Remember, the McStay's car had been. found on February 8th in a shopping. center parking lot near the Mexican. border. >> We have this question, how did the. Trooper get down to the San Ysidro. border? Well, obviously we got to answer. that question. >> In 2010, Chase had insisted to. detectives it couldn't have been him. >> During San Diego's investigation, Chase. told them that he'd been in the vehicle. one time but only as a passenger and had. never driven the Trooper.

>> It was all recorded. >> The last time I was in it, we went to. Camp Pendleton, Went to We played. paintball Camp Pendleton. >> You're. front passenger? >> Front passenger. >> But never driven it? >> Never driven it. >> Back in 2010, [music]. San Diego investigators had swabbed the. car, taking DNA samples from all over. the interior. San Bernardino detectives compared those.

swabs to a sample of Chase's DNA. According to investigative documents, not only was Chase's DNA in the car, but it was found in places they felt the. driver was likely to touch, like the steering wheel. And Detective Bachman and his team. >> [music]. >> did some math. According to their report, they thought. that the 6-hour window when Chase's. phone was turned off that day would have. given him exactly the right amount of. time to drive the McStay's Trooper.

[music] to the border, get his DNA on the steering wheel in the. process, and make it back home before turning his. phone back on again. >> So, eventually you get, you know, four, [music] five, six things and it's more. than a coincidence and then you start. focusing in on, >> [music]. >> you know, you realize that Chase had the. opportunity to commit the crime. >> By the summer of 2014, [music]. San Bernardino investigators were. getting closer and closer to calling. Chase in for an interview.

to answer their growing number of. questions. [music]. And then, detectives found something. else. Something that they said was a huge red. flag. In August 2014, San Bernardino. detectives got a warrant for a. QuickBooks account used by Joseph.

McStay. Detective Ryan Smith said it showed how. the money was flowing through the. fountain business. >> So, to manage Earth Inspired Products, Joseph used QuickBooks, which is a. personal finance management, small. business finance management. And he used. QuickBooks to process invoice, print. checks. It was his ledger to keep track. of what had been paid, what was coming. in, what was going out. >> The detective said when they looked at. the QuickBooks account activity, they.

thought there was something unusual. happening around the date of the. McStay's disappearance. Checks had been written from Joseph. McStay to Charles Merritt. And not for small amounts. There was over $30,000. spread over several checks. Some of them, according to police. reports, were written just before Joseph. was last seen. But, there were others. written afterwards.

Of particular interest to detectives. were several checks that had been. created on February 5th. But that someone had then changed the. date in the log. to February 4th. Someone had then printed those checks. and deleted the log entries. >> They were backdated to February February. 4th, and then they were deleted from the. system. And that's a huge red flag for. us, and that's important because we. realized that.

nobody knew the family was missing yet. So, why would someone go in, create a. check, and delete it, backdating it to. the 4th? >> According to detectives, 4 days after. the family went missing, a QuickBooks employee got a customer. service inquiry. >> The person on the other end of the phone. identified themselves as Joseph McStay, and then told the employee that they. needed to delete all of the QuickBooks. records related to the Earth Inspired. Products account.

>> If Joseph McStay had called QuickBooks. on February 8th, that would mean he was still alive at. the time. Why would he need to edit and delete the. records of his own account? >> [music]. >> The investigators spoke to the. QuickBooks employee who'd taken that. call. According to the detective's report, the. employee remembered specifically how. much urgency the person at the other end. of the phone spoke with. Investigators had reason to believe that.

the person who made that call. wasn't Joseph McStay. >> We determined that the phone call. that was made into QuickBooks actually. came from Charles Merritt's phone. number. >> Charles Merritt. It was a name that kept appearing. on DNA results, on mysterious checks, and whose phone had pinged off a cell. tower in the desert. But even though detectives thought the. evidence was building against Chase,

they didn't think it was conclusive. When they called Chase Merritt in for a. voluntary interview in October 2014, it had been almost a year since the. McStays' bodies were discovered. Detectives wanted to see if he'd had an. explanation for some of the evidence. they'd found. In the first part of their long. interview, they talked with Chase about. his health, his new job, his recent trip. to the McStays' gravesite in the desert.

He said it was for a project he was. working on about the family. >> I had decided that I was going to write. a book. >> Okay. >> Um. and. I was going to do the cover of the book. with me standing next to Joseph's cross. >> When Chase mentioned something about the. day the McStays disappeared, February. 4th, 2010, detectives began to narrow their line of. questioning.

>> Okay, we you you started mentioning. about the 4th. Give me the events of the. 4th. >> Describe from that day. >> Detectives asked Chase to tell them. from the morning of the 4th onwards. where he was and what he did. Chase said he got up and called Joseph. to plan a meeting that day. >> Sometime midday. I met him at Chick-fil-A. >> Okay. >> We ate. and talked about all of the. stuff. After the meeting, he went his way, I went mine.

>> The next few days after that, Chase said. weren't notable. But by the following week, he said he. was so worried about Joseph that he. decided to contact his family. and visit the McStay home. >> So, February 4th is the last time you. see Joseph? In the week after that, um is there any. reason that anyone would have seen you. or your vehicle up in the high desert. area? >> Uh Hesperia? >> Hesperia, yeah.

>> That's nothing I know of. Um. unless I went to. my sister's. >> Chase wasn't in the high desert in that. time period, he said. But if he was, he might have been visiting some of his. family in the area. Detectives knew from Chase's phone. records that his phone had been in this. area. But detectives didn't reveal this. Not yet.

They asked Chase about his access to the. QuickBooks account that Joseph [music]. used for the business. Without being asked, Chase offered an. explanation. saying that Joseph had asked him to. switch the QuickBooks account. He claimed that Joseph wanted a account. that Summer couldn't access. >> She constantly go on the computer see. how much money he was making and. his finances were he he tried to keep. them away from his wife and it was it.

was a big thing. >> And as for making checks that look like. they were from Joseph to Chase, he said he'd written checks from. Joseph's account, quote, dozens and. dozens of times. He said he would do this to pay both. himself and other suppliers on behalf of. the company. Again, the detectives gave no indication. that they had any further questions to. ask Chase about the checks. They moved on. This time to find out if Chase had an.

explanation for why his DNA was on the. steering wheel of the Mix day's Trooper. >> So at that time, Detective Fritz asked you if you'd ever. driven the Trooper. >> Mhm. >> Uh and you said no, you were only a. passenger in the Trooper. >> [music]. >> uh when you went paintballing. I just. want to. clarify that with you. >> Actually, that is that isn't what I said. cuz I remember the conversation. Um. the last time I had driven the Trooper. was when we went paintballing.

>> Chase denied telling San Diego. detectives that he'd only ever been a. passenger in the Mix day's car, which, remember, was all caught on tape. >> But never driven. >> Never driven it. >> And Chase told San Bernardino detectives. actually he had driven the car. when he and Joseph went paintballing. Detective Ryan Smith says that Chase's.

timeline didn't make any sense. >> [music]. >> The DNA was processed or collected from. the Trooper in [music]. I want to say February 2010. They went. paintballing in January. >> [music]. >> After the date Chase said he driven the. car, it would have seen over a month of. other use. >> [music]. >> of the journeys, potentially other. drivers. Smith claims that it would be very. unlikely that Chase's DNA would have.

still been there for San Diego. detectives to [music] collect in. February. >> You wouldn't expect any if they had. driven the car a month ago. >> The amount of Chase's DNA that was found. in the car, [music] Smith says, was. consistent with more recent use. If Chase had driven the car to the. Mexican border, it would have been just. a few days before the DNA [music] was. collected from it. That's what San Bernardino detectives. believed had happened.

Over the course of several hours, the. detectives asked [music] Chase about. these key pieces of evidence that had. stood out to them. And they told him his answers didn't. match what they'd found in their. investigation. Now it was time for the detectives. [music]. to show their hand. and revealed that they knew more, much more, than they'd been letting on. >> [music].

>> 4 hours into their interview with Chase. Merritt in October 2014, detectives were ready to step things up. a notch. >> There's a big dynamic shift throughout. the interview when you transition from. interview to interrogation. >> Detective Eddie Barckman was in the room. that day. >> At the point where Chase continued to. lie, and we knew we we knew that there. were certain portions of the interview. that he was lying with. Um, at that.

point we we transitioned into. interrogation to confront him with some. of the facts that we knew that uh there. were things that Chase did that he. wasn't being honest about. >> On my behalf here is. what he told me from QuickBooks is not. the same story you're giving. >> I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say. I. sat down in this room today.

and every single thing that I told you. today. is. as far as my recollection goes, the. absolute truth. >> Okay, so when you called QuickBooks on. Monday, did you say this is Chase. Merritt and then I I need to order. QuickBooks or did you represent yourself. to Joseph instead? >> I didn't I don't think I represented. [music] myself to Joseph. >> "I don't think I represented myself as. Joseph," he said. The detectives pushed Chase.

They told him that his story about. writing dozens of checks from Joseph's. account, they didn't believe it. They claimed that Chase didn't write. checks on behalf of Joseph on a regular. basis. The checks police found from the [music]. days right before and after Joseph went. missing, they said those checks were written by. Chase without Joseph's knowledge. >> And this bad Chase, it looks very bad to. you right now. that you're lying about this stuff, okay? And after we need to give we we.

gave you an opportunity to go your. chance, okay? So that's why we need you. to be honest with us here because this. is a murder investigation. >> Chase kept saying that he knew how. important the case was, but that he just. didn't have another answer to offer. Detectives showed him the check created. on February 6th that was then backdated. to the 4th. "I have no clue," Chase said. "And. I can't remember.".

Detectives pressed Chase further. They asked him about the vehicle seen in. the neighbor's video. The one leaving the McStay's home on. February 4th, 2010. The detectives now believed. belonged to Chase. >> I'm telling you I'm I'm telling you. straight up and and we're not lying to. you. I know you were in Fallbrook on. February 4th, okay? All all I want to know is is what it. what was the reason for? >> February 3rd, I don't think I was.

>> done it. >> Detectives told Chase, "Your phone. records showed you were in the desert 2. days after this family went missing.". >> Why would your phone show you. at the grave site. on February 5th? >> Not possible. I wasn't there. >> These either either some crazy. coincidences or. you just have terrible luck, one of the. two. >> It was just him denying. Like he was. going to deny he was he was just going.

to deny it all all the way. >> The detectives spent hours confronting. Chase with their claims about his role. in the McStay's murders. But Chase kept saying he didn't know. or denying their allegations. >> Did you kill the McStay family? >> Of course not. Of course not. He was my best friend. Yeah, and I don't have very many. friends. No, no, of course not. I would never. hurt them.

>> So what I need you to do is figure out. what happened February 4th, okay? This. is This is. This isn't some little little BS case or. anything like that. >> Trust me, I know. >> It's a homicide of four people. >> I know. >> Four people, okay? >> All right. >> Trust me. >> People that were very close to you. You. you're you're self-proclaimed best. friend and his family, okay? Two little. boys. All right? >> I know. >> This has gone on for 4 years, okay? I need to know what happened that night, Chase.

Something happened. >> [music]. >> But Chase's story didn't change. If investigators were hoping for a. confession, they didn't get one. And after 7 hours of interviewing, they let him go. But this wasn't the last time that. detectives would talk to Chase Merritt. Because with or without answers from. Chase, they believed they knew what actually.

happened on February 4th, [music] 2010. And about why the Mix Days had been. murdered. to begin with. >> [music]. [music]. >> What happened to the Mix Days is a. production of ABC Audio and 20/20.

Hosted by me, Aušra Šimkutė. Produced by. Madeleine Wood, Vika Aronson, Audrey. Mast. and Chiara Powell. With help from Sabrina Fang and Camille. Peterson. Edited by Gianna Palmer. Our supervising producer is Suzy Lou. Music by Evan Viola. Mixing by Evan Viola and Bob Mallory. >> [music]. >> Thanks to Katie Dendos, Janice Johnson, Camille Peterson, Sabrina Fang, >> [music]. >> Chris Donahue,

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