Jiang Zemin: The 60 Minutes Interview

60 Minutes. rewind in the 50 years since the. Communist Party took power there China. has had just three Paramount leaders. Mong dang XA ping and now Jang Zin Who. currently rules over almost 1.3 billion. people one out of every five people on. Earth he has been in charged for 11. years since dung chose him to restore. stability after the brutality at T men.

square but still Americans know. remarkably little about this powerful. man who arrives in New York City. tomorrow to visit the UN and to meet. with American Business. Leaders the president believes that. China has been misunderstood here in. America and he wants Americans to get a. more favorable and he says more. realistic impression of his. country I hope to convey through your. program.

my best wishes to American. people he's been called the silk wrapped. needle and in this interview you'll see. why for several years we'd been asking. to sit down with him finally the. president invited us to China and told. us he was willing to answer any question. in a recent headline in your government. or one of your government newspapers. China Daily the the paper called the US. a threat to World Peace.

do you feel that way that the United. States is a threat to World. Peace candidly speaking maybe it is. because of the economic power and. Leading Edge in science and technology. that the United States enjoys that more. often than not it tends to overestimate. itself and its position in the. world but today I want to convey a nice. message to the American people so I. don't want to use too many tough words. in our talk George W bush one of them is.

going to be president of the United. States while you are president of. China if they are watching right now. what would you want to say to them about. future us relations with. China I have a lot of friends among the. leaders of both parties Republicans and. Democrats so you give money to both. their. campaigns are just joking we have never.

done such things I have read the. campaign platforms of both parties and I. believe whoever becomes president will. try to improve the friendly relations. between China and the United States for. this is in the Strategic interest of the. whole world someone asked me not to pay. attention to unfriendly remarks. candidates might make about China during. the campaign because once elected they. will be friendly I only hope that's true. the president had agreed to give short.

answers so that we could cover more. ground and when I reminded him about it. he was ready for. me but I think my answer is roughly the. same length as your question I know it. that's absolutely. true if you make concise and brief. questions I'll give you brief. answers this was the first time Western. television cameras had been allowed. inside the president's summer Compound. on the beach at the resort town of badaa.

it has been called China's Camp David. this is where the country's leaders meet. in private every August to develop their. plans for the coming year the president. agreed to speak candidly with us so we. asked him to tell us candidly how would. you. characterize the state of relations. between China and the United States. today Mr. President on the whole a relations. between China and the unit states are.

good however I would like to use words. people use to describe nature to. describe the state of China us. relations our relations have experienced. wind rain and sometimes clouds or even. dark clouds however sometimes it clears. up we all sincerely hope to build a. constructive partnership between China. and the United. States that's spoken like a real. politician there's no cander in it well. wouldn't we politicians I don't think.

politician is a very nice word it's it's. a diplomatic word in this case Jang. zamin is a gregarious fellow who loves. Center. Stage but he has not given an extended. interview to an American television. reporter for 10 years partly he says. because Americans refuse to believe that. the vast majority of Chinese are. actually satisfied with one party rule. one of our most spirited exchanges was. over objection to our use of the word.

dictator you are the last major. Communist dictatorship in the. world you mean I'm dictatorship well of. course a developmental dictatorship is. what is what we believe it is Am I Wrong. of course this is big. Mystic you are it seems to me a dictator. an authoritarian no but but I I very.

Frank speaking I don't agree with your. point I'm dictator I know you don't I I. know that you don't but there's an old. this old an old American phrase about if. it walks like a duck and quacks like a. duck and so forth It's a duck what means. dictatorship a dictator is. somebody who. forcibly whether it's free. press or free. religion or free private Enterprise now.

you're you're beginning to come a little. closer to. that you Father Knows Best. and if you get in the way of father. father will take care of. you your way of describing what things. are like in China is as absurd as what. the Arabian Knights may sound like the. national people's Congress selects the. Central Committee of the Communist party.

and the Central Committee has a polit. bureau and the polit bureau has a. standing committee of which I am a. member and no decision is made unless. all members agree. but when we talk about. dictatorship I'm I'm wagging my finger. at the president of China you know what. when I see the. picture of that one young man in front. of the.

tank in ten and Men square that to me. means Chinese. dictatorship that's a wonderful. symbol that. hits hits me in my. heart about dictatorship in. China I don't need translation I know I. know what you. say I'm very willing answer these.

questions so we reminded him that he. himself had been a student demonstrator. more than 50 years ago you were a. student protester in Shanghai in. Shanghai that's right at the time of the. uh nationalist we want freedom we want. democracy that was you that's right. that's what those people in tenman. square was saying we want freedom we. want democracy. in the 1989 disturbance we truly.

understood the passion of students who. were calling for greater democracy and. freedom in fact we have always been. working to improve our system of. democracy but we could not possibly. allow people with ulterior motives to. use the students to overthrow the. government under the pretext of. democracy and freedom did a part of you. admire his. [Music]. courage he was never arrested I don't. know where he is now looking at the.

picture I know he definitely had his own. ideas you haven't answered the question. Mr President did did a part of Jang. zamin. admire admire his. courage I know what you are driving at. but what I want to emphasize is that we. fully respect every citizen's right to. freely Express his wishes and. desires but I do not favor any flagrant.

opposition to government actions during. an emergency the tank stopped and did. not run the young man down I'm not. talking about the. tank I'm talking about that man's heart. that man's courage that man that lonely. man standing. against that one month after. tenman you wrote a speech and in it you. said corruption is growing in the soil.

if all our party and our government. organs use their power to seek material. benefits isn't this just like fleecing. the people in broad daylight those. students in tenanan had also been. protesting against the corruption that. you talked about so apparently they did. have some effect on you and on your. party I hate corruption you right that.

during the 1989 disturbance students. were chanting slogans against corruption. so on this specific point the party. shares the same position as the students. as an aside and to underline his. credentials as a student demonstrator in. times past the president himself sang a. protest song that he' used back in. 1943 against Japanese troops who were. occupying parts of China the title arise. fellow students to to defend the.

motherland the president's Aid suggested. it would be unfair to show pictures of. the violence at tenanan Square because. they say Jang men had nothing to do with. it but they were glad to give us. pictures of their Embassy in Belgrade.

which had been demolished by American. bombers during NATO's air War last year. Mr President do you still. believe that the United States bombed. your Embassy in Belgrade on. purpose let me put it the other way. around the United States has. state-of-the-art technology so all the. explanations that they have given us for. what they call mistaken bombing are.

absolutely. unconvincing what would the United. States get out of bombing your Embassy. in Belgrade so is that for me also a. question the identification marks of the. Chinese Embassy in Belgrade were too. clear for people to miss so why has. there been such an incident it is still. a question but we have decided to look. forward to improve China us relations I.

understand that and that's behind us but. you know it's possible for the. CIA and the. Pentagon to make mistakes stupid. mistakes the American people the. American people have no doubt no doubt. in their mind I think that this was. simply a. mistake President Clinton apologized to.

me for the bombing many times on the. telephone I told him since you represent. Americans and I Chinese it would be. impossible for us to reach total. agreement on this issue when 60 Minutes. Returns the president will give us his. views on Abraham Lincoln American morals. and accused spy Dr W ho. Lee the story will continue after. this President jangan says his polls. tell him the Chinese people believe that.

one party rule is the best way to. maintain stability and increase. prosperity and while the president is 74. and scheduled to step down in less than. 3 years he has indicated that he might. stay on beyond that his unfulfilled. dream of course is to unite Taiwan with. the mainland and he told us that he. would fly to Taiwan himself for. unification talks if Taiwan were to. agree in advance that it is part of. China when so far Taiwan has been un. willing to do we asked the president.

about that Taiwan born scientist who's. become a source of some controversy in. the United States and. China you know the name of Dr W. ho do you know the man I I know famous. scientist famous scientist Chinese. Chinese overseas Chinese overseas. Chinese oh overseas Chinese he went to. the United States in. 1964 and had a a a wonderful career and.

went to Los Alamos National Laboratory. and. suddenly they. decided that he was a spy conceivably. for. you was. he I can tell you frankly China was not. in any way involved in W hoi's case but. we do know that he is a scientist who. came here to China and talked to your. scientists.

that's nothing strange it's just as. normal as some Chinese scientists. traveling abroad allow me to quote a. Chinese proverb which goes if you are. out to condemn someone you can always. Trump up a. charge we don't know what political. motives are behind it today the Chinese. still see W ho Lee as a renowned. scientist that's all that's all not a. spy of course. I you seem almost defensive for the.

first time in this whole conversation. when I raised the name of w hoi all of a. sudden I I. sensed this is a difficult subject for. you no no no and a difficulty to. me this is your. feeling correct maybe under the light. conceivably under the lights but what do. you think. I'm not suppos to St who is spy ches Spy.

or not do I think that's. right you were considered carefully I I. am considering very carefully you've. stopped me no no first time I discovered. you faced the difficulty to answer this. question yes that's. true that's true I probably shouldn't. answer if there was ever a time to. change the subject this was it. you studied the speeches of Thomas.

Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln as a. youngster when you were learning. English when I was in Middle School and. later when I was a teacher I used. Lincoln's Gettysburg address in my. course do you want me to quote some. lines from it I do indeed I will tell. you four S and seven years ago our. fathers brought for on this continent a. new nation. conting Liberty and dedicate to.

proposition that all men are created. equal why did you learn that by. heart I focused on the words all men are. created equal all men are created equal. right because this had a great influence. on students when I was young and I think. what Abraham Lincoln described Still. Remains the goal of American leaders.

today it's true especially the last. paragraph the government of the People. by the people and for the people never. push from the Earth but Abraham Lincoln. was elected by the people correct that's. right why is it that. Americans can elect their national. leaders but you apparently don't trust. the Chinese people to elect your. National lead leers.

why I am also an elected leader though. we have a different electoral system. each country should have its own system. because our countries have different. cultures and historic traditions and. different levels of education and. economic. development Jang was chosen by the top. leaders of the Communist. Party public elections occur only in. some Villages and small towns and C. candidates must either be members of the.

Communist party or run as Independents. but I don't understand still why you. have a one party State what would happen. What would happen in China if there were. two or three parties isn't it. conceivable that as in the United States. the competition between the parties to. represent the majority of the people in. that country make for a better. country why must we have opposition.

parties you are trying to apply the. American values and the American. political system to the whole world but. that is not very wise many China. scholars believe the president has in. effect made a deal with the Chinese. people to increase their economic and. social freedom to work and live as they. please and in return the people give up. any right to challenge the authority of. the Communist party but the president. doesn't see it that way he told the. people and the party are working.

together toward Mutual. goals let me be frank China and the. United States differ greatly in terms of. our values you Americans always use your. values in making judgments about the. political situation in other countries. we want to learn from the West about. science and technology and how to manage. the economy but this must be combined. with specific conditions here that's how. we have made great progress in the last. 20 years fact is China's standard of.

living has been rising. dramatically and in China like America. it's the economy that largely determines. people's satisfaction with their. government the president maintains that. the vast majority here believe strong. one party rule is the best way to hold. this huge population together and to. keep the economy growing so stability is. the top priority sometimes at the. expense of Human Rights new subject one.

you're not going to want to talk about. human rights you persecute something. called Fallen gong they do exercises. they believe in a certain spiritual life. what what is it that worries you so. about fallong gong that you torture. arrest kill Etc what what is. it I will tell you their leader Lee. claims to be The Reincarnation of the.

chief Buddha and also a reincarnated. Jesus Christ can you believe that he. said that doomsday was about to come and. that the Earth was going to explode in. fact what he says are just fallacies to. deceive people but as a result of his. preaching many families were broken and. many lives were lost so after careful. deliberations we concluded that fallong. gong is is an evil cult a cult cult by.

the way no fallong gong followers have. ever been sentenced to death but 26 of. them have reportedly died in police. custody president Jang told us Fallen. gong has driven thousands of its members. to commit suicide but Fallen gong says. that's ridiculous that it does not. encourage suicide and that it's still. going strong despite the Chinese. government's efforts to quash it look. you have person uted.

Christians it's well. known you have persecuted falungong it. is difficult to understand. why a big. Power like China would want to persecute. people because of their. religion which one thing we have to make. very clear just now you mixed up two. things Christianity and Fong gong under. China's Constitution people have the. freedom of religious belief but Fang.

gong is a cult it is totally different. from Christianity but you will. acknowledge then that Christians have. been persecuted by the Communist Party. in China. yes no. no but like anyone else Christians. should not break Chinese. laws the government does recognize. Christianity Chinese style but foreign. missionaries are banned and Evangelical. groups are not allowed to spread their. faith without government approval as for.

freedom of speech criticism of the. government can get you arrested and. jangan has always favored tough. government controls of the press the. Press he has said should be a mouthpiece. of the party and there is not freedom of. the press here there is not we see a. connection between freedom of the people. and freedom of the press what do you. fear from a free press. I think all countries and parties must.

have their own Publications to publicize. their ideas we do have freedom of the. press but such Freedom should be. subordinate to and serve the interest of. the nation how can you allow such. freedom to damage the national interests. you have blocked internet sites here in. China the BBC The Washington. Post. why why block an Internet site you don't. trust the people somehow to be able to.

pick stuff up off the internet and. learn we hope people learn a lot of. useful things from the internet however. sometimes there is also unhealthy. material especially pornography on the. internet which does great harm to our. youngsters not from the BBC and not from. the Washington. Post they might be banned because of. some of the their political news reports.

we need to be selective we hope to. restrict as much as possible information. not conducive to China's development D. Shia ping said to get riches glorious is. it. conceivable that the more material gains. that we make as human beings the more we. become hedonists. permissive what D jaing advocated does. allow some people to become Rich before. others but the ultimate objective is.

prosperity for all a common problem for. world leaders is to avoid material. wealth on one hand but moral decline on. the other do you think that America is. is more decadent for instance than China. and that we are exporting our decadence. to. you let me put it this way due to many. differences between our countries in. historical Traditions ways of life. religious beliefs Etc things you don't.

regard as decadent in the states we may. regard as decadent in China that's why. we have to be very selective so that. this is very complicated. problem another complicated problem is. trade and president Jang will meet with. American Business Leaders this week to. urge them to increase their investments. in China Corporate America has long. lustered after customers in China's. billion buo Market but the fact is China. still sells a lot more to us than we.

sell to them to change that the White. House says that if the US Senate. approves permanent normal trade. relations with China as the house. already has that would force China to. reduce tariffs and trade barriers and. thus to buy more American Goods. president Jang wants normal trade. relations too and he wanted to end our. conversation by underscoring why he had. agreed to this rarest of interviews I'm. convinced that.

this. interview will be further. promoting the friendship and the mutual. understanding between our two. peoples that is all you believe that. that's right I'm convinced that I. trusted that you admire America that's. right and you want to be friends. I want to promote the mutual.

understanding between two peoples.