Barack Obama: The 2020 60 Minutes interview

on election night 2016. then president barack obama called. donald trump at about three o'clock in. the morning to congratulate him. even though mr trump had lost the. popular vote and took the electoral. college by less than one percent. in three states today president trump. declines to accept the verdict of the. voters despite. losing by greater margins to. president-elect joe biden. mr obama hasn't spoken of the election.

standoff. until today we spoke to the 44th. president. on the release of his new book a. promised land. a memoir of his early years and first. term. the story will continue in a moment. what is your advice in this moment. for president trump well a president. is a public servant. they are temporary occupants of the.

office. by design and. when your time is up. then it is your job to put the country. first. and think beyond your own ego and your. own. interests and your own disappointments. my advice to. president trump is if you want at this. late stage in the game to be remembered. as somebody who put. country first uh it's time for you to do.

the same thing. in your view it is time for him to. concede. absolutely well i mean i think it was. time for him to concede. probably the day after the election. or at the latest two days after the. election. when you look at the numbers objectively. joe biden will have one. handily there is no scenario in which. any of those states would turn the other. way. and certainly not enough to reverse the.

outcome of the election. more than the courtesy of a concession. the trump white house is declining to. free up the usual funds. and facilities for the incoming. administration. president-elect biden is not receiving. secret national security briefings. as mr trump did when he was. president-elect. what in your estimation would our. adversaries be thinking right now russia. china about the fact that the transition. is not moving forward. well i i look i i think our adversaries.

have seen uh us weakened uh. not just as a consequence this election. but over the last. several years uh we have. these cleavages in the body politic. that they're convinced they can exploit. there's the old adage that partisan. politics. should uh stop at the water's edge right. that when it comes to.

our foreign policy that it is the united. states of america. not the divided states of america we met. the former president at a symbol of. america's past divisions. the smithsonian's national portrait. gallery was a hospital. in the civil war clara barton and walt. whitman cared for patients in the. building. where the 16th president consoled his. wounded. we joined mr obama's peers in the. gallery of the presidents.

to talk about his book i'm curious about. the title. i think a lot of people feel that we are. farther. from a promised land well i i titled it. the promised land. because even though we may not get there. in our lifetimes even if we experience. hardships and disappointments along the. way. that i at least still have faith we can. create a more perfect union not a. perfect union but a more perfect union.

you write in the book our democracy. seems to be teetering on the brink of a. crisis. what do you mean we have gone through a. presidency. that disregarded a whole host of. basic institutional norms. expectations we have for a president. that have been observed by republicans. and democrats uh previously.

uh and maybe most importantly uh and and. uh. most disconcertingly what we've seen is. what some people call truth decay. something that's been accelerated by. outgoing president trump the sense that. not only do we not have to tell the. truth. but the truth doesn't even matter what. are these false claims. of widespread election fraud doing to.

our country right now. the president doesn't like to lose and. never admits loss i'm more troubled by. the fact that other republican officials. who clearly know better. are going along with this are humoring. him in this fashion it is one more step. in delegitimizing not just the incoming. biden administration but democracy. generally. and that's a dangerous path we would. never accept that out of.

our own kids behaving that way if they. lost. right i i mean if if my daughters. in any kind of competition uh. pouted and and then accused the other. side of uh. cheating when they lost when there was. no evidence of it we'd scold them. you know i think that there has been. uh this sense over the last several. years. that literally anything goes.

and is justified in order to get. power uh and. that's not unique to the united states. there are strong men and dictators. around the world who think. that i can do anything to stay in power. i can kill people i can throw them in. jail i can. run phony elections i can. suppress journalists um. but that's not who we're supposed to be.

and. one of the signals i think that. joe biden needs to send to the world is. that no. those values that we preached and we. believed in and subscribed in we still. believe. president-elect biden won in this. election more votes than anyone in. history yeah. and yet the 2020 vote wasn't a. repudiation.

of donald trump it was more like an. affirmation. he received 71 million votes eight. million more than he did in 2016. what does that tell you about our. country today. well a it tells us that we're very. divided. and as i said it's not just the. politicians now the voters are divided. it has now become a contest where. issues facts policies per se don't.

matter. as much as identity and. wanting to uh beat the other guy. you know that's taken priority i do. think the current and media environment. adds to that greatly this democracy. doesn't work if we don't have an. informed citizenry this. democracy doesn't work if we don't have. responsible elected officials at other. levels who are willing to call the. president when.

he's not doing something right call him. on it it seems. though mr president that americans have. gone from disagreeing with one another. to hating one another the problem. that this man had uh you know and i. wonder he's. a he's a good example of uh of somebody. who. uh who i think understood deeply. uh the need to to be able to see. uh another person's point of view how do.

we overcome. where we are today well there's no uh. american figure that i admire uh. any more than abraham lincoln but he did. end up. with a civil war on his hands i think. we'd like to avoid that. uh i i i i do think that uh. a new president can set a new tone. that's not going to solve all the. gridlock in washington. i think we're going to have to work. with the media and with the tech.

companies. to find ways to inform. the public better about the issues and. to bolster. the the standards that. ensure we can separate truth from. fiction. i think that we have to work at a local. level. when you start getting to the local. level mayors.

county commissioners etc they've. actually got to make real decisions it's. not abstractions it's like we need to. fix this road we need to. uh get this snow plowed we need to make. sure our kids. uh have a safe playground to to play in. and at that level i don't think people. have that kind of visceral hatred. and that's where we have to start in. terms of rebuilding the social trust we. need for democracy to work. mr obama is speaking after four years of. virtual silence on donald trump.

he followed a traditional commandment. largely observed since. adam succeeded washington thou shall not. criticize your successor in a promised. land. he wonders if that was a mistake in your. book. you ask quote whether i was too. tempered in speaking the truth too. cautious. in word or deed many americans mr. president believe you were.

too cautious too tempered yeah. and and i think that's a legitimate. and understandable uh. criticism at the end of the day i. consistently tried to treat my political. opposition. uh in the ways i'd want to be treated. to not overreact when. for example somebody yells you lie.

in the middle of me giving a joint. congressional address. it's not true i understand why. there were times where my supporters. wanted me to be more pugilistic. to you know uh pop folks uh. in the head and and and duke it out a. little bit more. was it a mistake that you didn't every. president. brings a certain temperament to office. i think part of the reason i got elected.

was. because i sent a message that. fundamentally i believe the american. people are good and decent. and that politics doesn't have to be. uh some cage match. in which uh everybody is is. going at each other's throats uh and. that we can agree. without being disagreeable there have. been worse presidential transitions than. 2020 the southern states seceded while.

lincoln was president-elect. still we couldn't help but notice. outside the national portrait gallery. businesses are still boarded up against. the fear. of political violence what should. president trump do on this next. inauguration day. look there is there are a set of. traditions that we have followed. in the peaceful transfer of power the. outgoing president congratulates the.

incoming president. instructs the government and the. agencies to cooperate. with the new government coming in you. invite. the president-elect to the oval office. how are you. and then on inauguration day the. president. invites the president-elect to the white. house there's a small reception. and then you drive to the inauguration. site. and the outgoing president sits there is. part of the audience. as the new president is sworn in and at.

that point. the outgoing president is a citizen like. everybody else and. owes the new president the chance to do. their best. on behalf of the american people whether. donald trump will do the same thing. we'll have to see so far that's not been. his approach. [Music]. but you know. hope spring's eternal there's a promised.

land out there somewhere. two hours after mr obama said that. president trump tweeted from the white. house we will win. even though no state is reporting fraud. or errors that could change the outcome. we'll be back with barack obama on other. crises in our country. and one in his own home.

during barack obama's first inauguration. in 2009. unknown to the public there was. intelligence that a terrorist attack was. planned. president obama had at the podium. instructions he would read to the crowd. should there be an evacuation of nearly. two million people. from the national mall this is one of. the insights in mr obama's new book. a promised land a memoir of his early.

years. his historic election and his first term. we spoke to the 44th president about. battles. past and present. the story will continue in a moment. did you watch the video of george. floyd's strangulation. of course it was heartbreaking. um very rarely though did you see it so. viscerally. and over a stretch of time where the.

humanity of the victim. is so apparent the pain and. the the vulnerability of someone. uh so clear and it was. i think a moment in which america. for a brief moment. came face to face with. a reality that african americans in this. country i think had understood for. quite some time and i was heartened.

and and uh inspired. by the the galvanizing effect that it. had. on the country as a whole the fact that. it wasn't just black people. it wasn't just so quote unquote liberals. who were appalled by it reacted to it. and eventually marched. but it was everybody and it was.

a small first step in. the kind of reckoning with our past and. our present. that so often uh. we avoid but mr president trayvon martin. yeah tamir rice briona taylor. right george floyd right why. is this injustice never. overcome well for a couple of reasons. one.

is that we. have a criminal justice system in which. we ask oftentimes very young. oftentimes not very well trained. officers to go into communities. and just keep a lid on things. and you know we don't try to get at. some of the underlying causes for. chronic poverty.

so if we're going to actually solve this. problem there are some specific things. we can do. to make sure that our contracts with. police officers. don't completely insulate them when they. do something wrong. putting money into budgets for. training these police officers more. effectively. teaching police officers not to escalate. but to de-escalate. but it's important for us not to let.

ourselves off the hook. and think this is just a police problem. because. those shootings that devaluation. of life is. part and parcel with a legacy. of discrimination and jim crow and. segregation. that we're all responsible for and if. we're going to. actually put an end to racial bias in. the criminal justice system. then we're going to have to work on. doing something about.

racial bias in corporate america and. bias in where people can buy homes and. and that is a larger project. in which all of the good news is all of. us can take some responsibility. we can all do better on this front than. we've been doing. scott how are you elbow bump i'm well mr. president. we joined the president this past. wednesday behind masks and then. kept our distance as the u.s counted 143.

thousand known covet infections that day. a new record mr obama had also faced an. outbreak. in his first term a new flu h1n1. i was terrified of it and very quickly. mobilized a team. to figure out how are we going to take. the best possible approach. and from the start i had some very. clear criteria which was number one. we're going to follow the science.

and the second thing was let's make sure. we're providing good information the. american people. but h1n1 was not as contagious nor as. lethal as cobit. it ultimately killed 12 000 americans. other battles in his book include the. financial crisis. passing the affordable care act the. decision to kill osama bin laden. and leaving eight years of work. in the hands of another you begin the. book by writing about the day that you.

left washington. quote to someone diametrically opposed. to. everything we stood for that may be the. one thing that. donald trump and i agree on is that he. doesn't agree with me on anything. i don't see him as the cause for. our divisions and the problems with our. government i think he's an accelerant. but they preceded him and sadly. are going to likely outlast him you. write in the book. that republicans had a battle plan to.

quote refuse to work with me. regardless of the circumstances the. issue or the consequences. for the country now the same might be. said of democrats. in a republican administration yeah i. wonder if today you think that democrats. and republicans are no longer. capable of compromise first of all. i don't think this is. just a plague on both their houses here.

so the democrats opposed george bush on. a whole bunch of stuff. but ted kennedy worked with george bush. to pass. a prescription drug plan for seniors. nancy pelosi who. adamantly opposed the war in iraq. time and again voted even when her base. was angry about it. to make sure that our troops were funded. once the decision. to send in troops to iraq went in mr.

obama blames gridlock on. something old and something new the. senate's filibuster tradition. which allows whatever party is in the. minority to block legislation. and non-traditional media. the media landscape has changed and as a. consequence voters. perceptions have changed so that i think. democratic and republican voters have. become much more partisan. i would often hear this from republicans.

during my presidency some of these folks. had been colleagues of mine i served in. the senate. some of them were friends of mine and. they would confess to me i said. look mr president i know you're right. but if i vote with you on this i'm going. to get killed. i'll lose my seat because. what had happened is their voter base. had. soaked in so much information that was. demonizing me demonizing the affordable. care act. that it becomes very difficult even for. folks who want to cooperate to cooperate.

and that's why uh i am somebody who does. not blame. the current partisanship solely on. donald trump or solely on social media. you already saw some of these trends. taking place. early in my presidency but i do think. they've kept on getting worse. the former president also writes about. his unlikely rise. including the obstacles at home. you're surprisingly honest in the book.

about your wife's opposition to you. running for president. in 2008 you quote her as saying. the answer is no i do not want you. running for president. god barack when is it going to be enough. did i get the tone right yeah it was a. little sharper than that but it was. pretty good and then she walks out of. the room. why did that not stop you look it's a. legitimate question. keep in mind the context here we had.

just two years earlier i'd run for the. u.s senate. in an unlikely race two years before. that i had run for congress. in a race you lost and a race i lost a. couple of years before that i'd run for. the state senate we've got. two young kids michelle's still working. and i ask myself in the book you know. how much of this is just megalomania. how much of this is vanity how much of. this is me trying to.

prove something to myself and over time. she made a conclusion that i shouldn't. stand in the way. of this um she did she should not stand. in the way of your ambitions. to be president yeah and and and she did. so grudgingly. um and. the fact that i ended up winning didn't. necessarily alleviate her. her frustration because the toll it. takes on families.

is real i think it's only. after you emerge from an all-consuming. job. that you realize that everything you. hold dear. is thanks to the one you love i think i. actually realized that even while i was. in the job. the fact that she put up with it. and forgave me. was uh. an act of of grace.

that i am grateful for. and i'm not sure i deserved it the goal. here. scott today at age 59 mr obama is. working. on his presidential center so this is. going to be on the south side of chicago. in historic jackson park. and it's it's the place where. michelle and i met where i first started. in public life his team brought this. model to show us. mr obama's foundation has raised from.

private donations. a little over half the estimated. 500 million dollar cost it'll take about. four years. once they start it's going to be a place. where you know we have the standard. model oval office and michelle's dresses. which will be very popular no doubt. but also you know a whole host of. facilities that allow us to. provide classroom training to young. people who are interested in.

public service and you know to beautify. a park that. can serve a whole bunch of young people. who've been. underserved in the past in his last. moments in the oval office. mr obama left a note in the president's. desk. for his successor it read in part. we are just temporary occupants of this. office. it's up to us to leave the instruments. of our democracy. at least as strong as we found them.

on that last day the emotions. really focus on the team that you've. been working on. and it's very rare outside of maybe war. time. where you get a collection of people. working together in a sustained way. under that kind of pressure and stress. and so there's a melancholy to it there. was also though. and i write about this a satisfaction in. knowing that. i had finished the job i had run.

my stretch of the race and i could say. unequivocally. despite regrets and disappointments. about. some things not getting done. the country was better off when i left. than when i. when i got there. producer maria gavrilovich uncovering. barack obama. since 2007 at 60minutesovertime.com.